Proposed Cessation Of Free Nhs Care To Uk Expats

[seonai]

Sorry about the unscalpelled (? sp) stuff Moss - just came across this tonight and have been in hosp all afternoon so too tired to edit it out. I wanted to keep it open as it's a very important topic

Perhaps I'll pass it on the Mods Team for consideration and suitable warnings

[Prakanong]

No. I was just very honest (I would now do it differently) because I was totally unaware that that would happen - I was totally gutted about it all. I'd been dreaming this sort of fantasy of returning to my home country and being welcomed with open arms so it shattered my dream pretty fast.

I mean I spent all the money I owned on my hospital bill in Thailand I had run out and I just expected to be helped without question in my home country

Yes hospitals employ people now to check up on entitlement and in certain hospitals they check more ie close to Heathrow as they know people not entitled (according to rules) to treatment try it on.

[seonai]

Yes Prakanong, I don't know if all this came about due to immigration but it's a very sensitive subject in the UK and almost been covered up until recently where some political situations have brought it to the fore

Whatever all the other politics I just believe that British citizens ought to be able to leave and come back as they please... contributing Nat Ins if neccessary

God what a hot potato this debate is eh ?

[PhilHarries]

Thanks to seonai for trying to kick out the racists and for providing one of the few CONCRETE pieces of info. If I ever find myself back in the UK and need medical attention I know what to expect.

As to the poster, can't remember the nick and can't be ar5ed going back to look for it, who said something like all UK expats are drunken slobs who engage in unprotected sex, I have one thing to say.

Don't judge others by your own lifestyle.

[Prakanong]

Yes Prakanong, I don't know if all this came about due to immigration but it's a very sensitive subject in the UK and almost been covered up until recently where some political situations have brought it to the fore

Whatever all the other politics I just believe that British citizens ought to be able to leave and come back as they please... contributing Nat Ins if neccessary

God what a hot potato this debate is eh ?

It is a hot potato and I must admit i have not fully thought it through on how I really stand

I do beleive that if you are keepong up NI while abroad as a British citizen you should get NHS treatment

I do beleive that retiree's over who have contributed NI but are now receiving pensions abroad should get it

Where I am not decided is UK citizens outside the above living abroad and acting the same way as medical tourists do

Having said that though I would probably head home if I contracted certain conditions - I might get better treatment in say Singapore but I might just want to be close to my family depending

It is a hot potato as you say.

[seonai]

Yes like my situation was that I got TB with extreme complications. I adore Thailand, have married my half Thai son's father and then a second Thai hubby when the first marriage failed and I just wanted to be in Thailand for the rest of my life. But money and then good willed friends deemed it was better to go back to Uk - which I didn't appreciate at the time but do now 100%. If I could have managed I would have stayed in Thailand - I was there more or less from 1992

Roasting hot potatoes

[the gent]

This thread has a somewhat misleading title in that there was no such proposal in the first place.

The situation regarding who is entitled to free NHS treatment is set out in a statutory instrument, The National Health Service ( Charges for Overseas Visitors ) Regulations 1989 in which the principle that a person qualified for receipt is defined as a person ordinarily resident in the UK. There is a raft of exceptions but I suspect that most folk voluntarily resident in Thailand would not qualify for inclusion.

There is however a shaft of light amidst the gloom engulfing those who have just discovered that citizenship and NI contributions do not alone confer free treatment on demand.

Essentially, those in receipt of a state pension who have spent at least 10 years continuously at some point in the UK or 10 years in Crown Service employment may receive free treatment provided the need for it arose during their visit. Realistically, for example, a recently diagnosed cancer sufferer unable to meet the cost of treatment abroad could return home and approach a GP complaining of feeling unwell shortly after arrival.......

Admittedly, not much solace for those still in their prime but a crumb of comfort to the long term retired perhaps.

[Prakanong]

Yes like my situation was that I got TB with extreme complications. I adore Thailand, have married my half Thai son's father and then a second Thai hubby when that marriage failed and I just wanted to be in Thailand for the rest of my life. But money and then good willed friends deemed it was better to go back to Uk - which I didn't appreciate at the time but do now 100%. If I could have managed I would have stayed in Thailand - I was there more or less from 1992

Roasting hot potatoes

I know a UK guy who died in Thailand last March - he had TB but with him I do think it was not "Walking alone" to put it another way.

A few guy's I know paid for his airfare to fly home and get treatment - he cashed in the ticket.

Since then a few guy's did pay for some of his treatment now and again but he could and did not follow the course prescribed and he did not get better.

I seem to remember the costs of treatment for this alone were quite expensive in Thailand with many 20K THB bills - after the airfare fiasco they used to pay the hospital direct.

[seonai]

God!!! The TB thing is a personal bug bear of mine. People default on the drugs for many reasons. But we better keep this on topic, there is a TB thread in Health, and get on with the current situation of NHS returners. Once you are back and in the 'system' so to speak, it's okay. But at the start you are treated as someone of, I quote from a letter, 'Of Questionable Immigration Status'

[Prakanong]

God!!! The TB thing is a personal bug bear of mine. People default on the drugs for many reasons. But we better keep this on topic, there is a TB thread in Health, and get on with the current situation of NHS returners. Once you are back and in the 'system' so to speak, it's okay. But at the start you are treated a someone of, I quote from a letter, 'Of Questionable Immigration Status'

I returned to the UK in 2000 from Thailand and signed on for my dole entitlement as I had paid NI for years except for the 15 months in Thailand (I got 3 weeks money till I found a new job).

One of the key's to establishing residency in their eyes was registering with a GP which I did in my home town no problem and so through that i reckon I would have been seen as a resident.

The best laugh was in the dole office. One girl said, "How do we know its really you?". Its a small town I had left 15 years earlier like most with common sense and/or ambition. I pointed to her colleague and said "I went to school with her" to which she looked up and said "Its him alright" - we had not got along at school.

[dkstoney]

And this all has what to do with Thailand?

[sbk]

Of importance to expats living in Thailand, but I do see your point.

Moved to the health section where it has more relevance

///MOVED///

[Mossfinn]

Sorry about the unscalpelled (? sp) stuff Moss - consideration and suitable warnings

I was only kidding Seonai, that would make even more popular than I am now.

Moss

[Mobi]

I'm really surprised that some of the experts haven't spotted this thread and corrected some of the misunderstandings.

This subject was in the news just a few months back and I'm sure there was a thread on it somewhere not long ago.

I may have to stand corrected, but my understanding of the current rules is that anyone who no longer lives in the UK and who has been out of the country for more than 3 months will only receive 'emergency treatment' upon their return to the UK. The only way such people can get back into the system, is to declare that they have returned to the UK for good,and will be required to satisfy the authorities on this by producing proof of residence, utility bills etc.

The rules are aimed at stopping UK migrants, typically from places like Spain etc, who jump on a plane every time they require medical treatment; but it catches just about everyone.

Obviously people who manage to maintain a UK address, and even more importantly, remain on a UK doctor's list will be able to evade this rule, but many long term non residents will have serious problems, unless they are going back to genuinely resettle.

This has nothing to do with not being tax payers, as many non residents, including me, pay tax on our UK private and State Pension schemes, as well as any on any other income we generate in the UK.

Frankly, if I ever needed to go back to the UK because I needed treatment for something like cancer, I would declare my intention to stay there and go and live with one of daughters. If in due course, I was cured, I would then consider whether to go back to Thailand and resume my previous life.

But beware, after years of fudging this whole subject as far as who is eligible to receive free health care, and all the millions who have slipped through the net, don't underestimate the current resolve to really crack down and make the new rules very tight and enforceable.

The good old days are over, and I think you will be surprised at the hoops you will be required to jump through before getting your 'free' treatment. (For example, just a quick look at your passport will tell the them everything they want to know if they have the slightest suspicion that you do not reside in the UK.)

If I wasn't up country at the moment with a poor internet connection, I would research this subject further, as I know there has been a lot of recent stuff on it.

[briley]

Mobi - you are completely correct.

[madjbs]

This is what I thought also.

[seonai]

Yes this is true - last two posts. Someone told me this while I was In Thailand and feeling invinsible ... then I learned the truth in Britain... and to tell the truth, I am pleased that mates persuaded me to come home, being extremely ill in another country is not fun.

It's really worth thinking this one through - various options - and I wish you all luck

[sonicdragon]

I have been non resident for over 10 years. On my last trip (June/July 06) I registered with the local GP (having never been registered there before), and also registered our children and we were classified as "temporary residents" but had no problem in seeing a doctor - and the children's prescriptions were free.

Is the treatment which must be paid for, as discussed in this thread above, something more than just visits to a GP ? IE just for hospital treatment ? Or did these regulations come into force after last summer ?

I find this confusing.

[briley]

Regulations have been around for some time. They are enforce with varying degrees by different doctors.

My wife was given a hard time by one doctor even when she was entitled to use the NHS - I was working overseas for HMG.

If you are white British and arrive at the doctors giving a UK address you'll probably find registration easy. Try and get hospital treatment and not have a doctors registration and you will be questioned.

[Mobi]

Regulations have been around for some time. They are enforce with varying degrees by different doctors.

My wife was given a hard time by one doctor even when she was entitled to use the NHS - I was working overseas for HMG.

If you are white British and arrive at the doctors giving a UK address you'll probably find registration easy. Try and get hospital treatment and not have a doctors registration and you will be questioned.

yes, I think the regulations have been around in one form or another but were not generally enforced.

Last year the government announced the 3 month cut off , and more active enforcement. They definitely mean business.

If you are able to maintain your registration with a GP and don't give any reason for them to suspect you no longer live in the UK you will probably be OK. But the longer you stay away the harder it will get, and if you manage to keep your registration you will have to lie to do it.

In my case I lost my registration some years ago when the GP sent out a circular letter to all patients for them to confirm their residence sand update any personal details. If all GP's do this, they will get you in the end.

In any event I must take into account my non resident and ('non dom') status for tax purposes (on non UK income) which could be at risk if I tried to maintain a UK address.

Many things to consider here, but I think you will find the days of hopping on a plane and getting admitted for a major operation on the NHS are over. Unless you re-settle back in the UK.

[seonai]

Same experience for me. Was allowed to register with a GP using a friend's address as a temporary patient. Then went to hospital with two conditions - TB and a DVT - and was told that the TB treatment was free as it's a public health issue but that I would have to pay for treatment of the DVT and anything else unless I could prove I was 'ordinarily resident' in the UK and had intention to stay. So the hospital wanted a rental contract that would cover the next year at least and they hassled me for it.

It is fairly easy to get a GP if you have some sort of address but if you then need hospital treatment the hospital 'trust' (PCT) will follow you up for payment