China doubles down on COVID narrative as WHO investigation looms

[berton]

50 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

Not quite true.

There are many reports about a 'foray' into a bat cave some six (?) years before. 4 of the 6 sample collectors died from 'respiratory' problems.

Samples were taken to the Wuhan lab and then experiments were performed.

did you hear about french cooperation with wuhan labs P2 and P3 ? 1km from the suspecting market , working with Pasteur Lab , and financed by french medical ministry ...

And...today : China arrested all last democratic deputees in Hong Kong and ...dont stop the medical experts from everywhere in the world coming from WHO? 

[curlylekan]

On 1/5/2021 at 8:00 AM, Natai Beach said:

 
Nice little thai bash that one. 
 

It probably started in China. Probably from wildlife meat. Could have happened anywhere, most countries eat wildlife, in Australia we eat kangaroos and they put all sorts of animals such as wild camel in our pies. 
 

The Chinese had to figure it out themselves as there was no template, they locked down hard and forced everyone to social distance and wear masks and were criticized for it by the west harping on about human rights. 

They were spot on with their approach and very successful. If other countries had followed the Chinese method it is fair to say it would not have been the huge problem it is today and the world would have been largely back to normal six months ago.
 

The Chinese had told the world about it in December of 2019. Politicians politicized it in the west, the UK wanting to take it on the chin, the US claimed it was a hoax and it would magically disappear, Italy was reluctant to lock down, Sweden had a different approach etc etc

Then the west started their protests, anti Trump, pro Trump, anti mask, BLM, anti lockdown, anti brexit, pro brexit etc etc that solved nothing, but helped spread the virus both directly from attending these protests and also be the disinformation that was spead when the advice from China was to social distance. 
 

Because of the huge numbers it has mutated with the new UK strain that is now much worse and the west need somebody to blame for their terrible and incompetent handling of it. It is worse now than ever before.

The virus probably started in China, but it definitely was spread in the west because simple measures like mask wearing were unbelievably advised against, people refused to social distance and harped on about “human rights”.
 

Did they really need to go and rip down statues during a pandemic? Statues that had been there for decades, but suddenly it was an urgent issue to pull them down right now. How many black lives were lost because of those protests? 
Idiotic. Lunacy.

 

 

 

You sound as though you are a part of the CCPs inner circle. I mean, how else could you know what a secretive, opaque government has done so well in terms of the virus. Your claims, I argue are based on the western idea of a transparent government who is of the people, for the people and by the people, when the CCP is none of these things. If the CCP were based on transparency and answered to the people, then I'd agree with what you say, but as life has become more extreme/authoritarian under XI, I have to disagree with you that we can trust this government; other than, trusting them to only do what is good for Xi and the party.

[Andy from Kent]

On 1/5/2021 at 8:00 PM, Natai Beach said:

most countries eat wildlife, in Australia we eat kangaroos and they put all sorts of animals such as wild camel in our pies. 

 

 

Note to self.     STOP eating pies.    ????

 

[impulse]

8 hours ago, Proboscis said:

I take it that you are either a Russian troll or completely uninformed.

 

The WHO is governed by the World Health Assembly to which each member country of the UN is entitled to have a seat on and vote and invariably does. THe funding comes from the UN agency, The United Nations Economic and Social Council and from partnerships such as international entities as the World Bank.

 

At no stage does the PRC (China) get to monopolise the policies or the funding of the WHO. Currently, if you have been paying attention, you will know that the PRC has prevented two WHO investigators from entering the PRC in order to identify the origin of Covid-19. Hardly puppets and pay masters.

 

Ho Ho Ho.  I laugh on anyone that thinks the WHO acts exactly in accordance to their charter, politics don't affect their actions, and neither do backhanders.  And that's not specific to China or Covid at all.  WHO leaders have been one scandal after another, for years.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by impulse

[garyk]

Saw an independent report on it the other day. The Chinese police actually blocked the roads into the area. 

They were not letting anyone in to the area. 

Good luck with this one.

[BusyB]

On 1/5/2021 at 1:17 PM, Phuketshrew said:

Any investigation will be a whitewash. China should be ostracised by the rest of the world and made to pay reparations for what they have unleashed on the world.

 

Oh dear.

 

It may be true that a butterfly flapping its wings in Shanghai can unleash an Atlantic hurricane.

 

But what is happening in the US has no connection with what happened in Wuhan last year. The devastation is the result of US 'policy'.

 

And by the way, the 1918 'Spanish' flu actually originated in the US. Nice PR work.

[Phuketshrew]

5 hours ago, BusyB said:

But what is happening in the US has no connection with what happened in Wuhan last year. The devastation is the result of US 'policy'.

 

And by the way, the 1918 'Spanish' flu actually originated in the US. Nice PR work.

Where did I mention happenings in the US or the Spanish flu? 

[placnx]

8 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

Oh dear.

 

It may be true that a butterfly flapping its wings in Shanghai can unleash an Atlantic hurricane.

 

But what is happening in the US has no connection with what happened in Wuhan last year. The devastation is the result of US 'policy'.

 

And by the way, the 1918 'Spanish' flu actually originated in the US. Nice PR work.

It's true that Covid could have been managed better in the US, but the origin of so-called Spanish Flu in 1918 was China via the West when Chinese workers were imported because able-bodied men were off to war. Obviously there is a connection between Covid in Wuhan and the World!

[Proboscis]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Ho Ho Ho.  I laugh on anyone that thinks the WHO acts exactly in accordance to their charter, politics don't affect their actions, and neither do backhanders.  And that's not specific to China or Covid at all.  WHO leaders have been one scandal after another, for years.

 

 

By "backhander" I think you mean bribery. Name one scandal involving the WHO and bribery.

 

The "leaders" of the WHO are the member states of the World Health Assembly, as mentioned above. They decide on who the executives are. If you as a citizen of one of those countries (assuming you are not from Somalia) believe that something is being done wrong and especially if you have evidence, why don't you find out the name of your country's representative and write to them.

[placnx]

1 hour ago, Proboscis said:

By "backhander" I think you mean bribery. Name one scandal involving the WHO and bribery.

 

The "leaders" of the WHO are the member states of the World Health Assembly, as mentioned above. They decide on who the executives are. If you as a citizen of one of those countries (assuming you are not from Somalia) believe that something is being done wrong and especially if you have evidence, why don't you find out the name of your country's representative and write to them.

Writing fruitless letters to politicians, as many of these WHO assembly members are, is out of style. Today people use social media to shame WHO and its executives. This analysis of WHO and the proposed visit to Wuhan is informative:

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-health-organization-criticizes-china-over-delays-in-covid-19-probe-11609883140

[BusyB]

6 hours ago, placnx said:

It's true that Covid could have been managed better in the US, but the origin of so-called Spanish Flu in 1918 was China via the West when Chinese workers were imported because able-bodied men were off to war. Obviously there is a connection between Covid in Wuhan and the World!

 

This just one of many sources:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

 

First recorded in US military camps.

 

Even though they were dropping like flies, the authorities refused to close them. The soldiers were loaded onto ships bound for Europe. There is footage I have seen of them off loading the corpses when they got there.

 

Neat 'mismanagement'. No connection with China except where people want to believe it.

 

Anyone who thinks their country is 'better' and others are 'less' or even execrable and worthy of 'punishment', has a mental virus. I've travelled too much and seen too much and worked with too many people (including for America, and with American friends)  from around the world all my life. Well inoculated thank you.

 

[rabas]

6 hours ago, placnx said:

It's true that Covid could have been managed better in the US, but the origin of so-called Spanish Flu in 1918 was China via the West when Chinese workers were imported because able-bodied men were off to war. Obviously there is a connection between Covid in Wuhan and the World!

There are a couple of new efforts to study the Spanish flu's origin. 

 

On is based on newly discovered hospital records from Northern China in the winter of 1917, which show a pneumonia like epidemic similar to the deadly second wave of the Spanish flu. It quickly killed the young and healthy who were said to turn blue from lack of oxygen. The Spanish flu has been called the Blue Death for the same reasons. They suggest the Chinese outbreak may have gone unnoticed because doctors didn't recognize it as flu because it was so severe and entered "Winter Death" into the records.

 

The other effort I've seen is based on records and microscope slides from a British WW-I hospital in the Middle East. There is some hope these records may clarify the flu's true origin.

 

Either way, the origin of the Spanish flu does not relate to the current cover ups and problems posed by the Chinese Communist Party.

 

https://www.history.com/news/china-epicenter-of-1918-flu-pandemic-historian-says

Did the 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic Originate in China?

https://www.statnews.com/2018/12/05/1918-spanish-flu-unraveling-mystery/

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by rabas

[BusyB]

9 hours ago, Phuketshrew said:

Where did I mention happenings in the US or the Spanish flu? 

 

You didn't.

 

Your post showed a very limited understanding of what has and is happening. I was trying to widen your horizons to help you think twice before you beat primitive propagandistic drums against another country that has also suffered greatly from a g l o b a l pandemic. Regardless of where it started.

 

If China deserves punishment for the c o r o n a v I r u s, you'd better hope Uncle Sam doesn't wind up in the dock on a few other raps that caused untold misery and death to millions of innocent people.

[Phuketshrew]

6 minutes ago, BusyB said:

Your post showed a very limited understanding of what has and is happening. I was trying to widen your horizons to help you think twice before you beat primitive propagandistic drums against another country that has also suffered greatly from a g l o b a l pandemic. Regardless of where it started.

 

If China deserves punishment for the c o r o n a v I r u s, you'd better hope Uncle Sam doesn't wind up in the dock on a few other raps that caused untold misery and death to millions of innocent people.

Oh thank you oh wise one. Again, I made no mention of "Uncle Sam", you really need to improve your understanding of the content of my comment before trolling me with such nonsense. 

[Selatan]

On 1/6/2021 at 3:11 PM, rabas said:

It's been shown that the Wuhan market was not and could not be the origin of the infection. In many ways.

 

-- Many of the earliest cases pre-dated the market and had no contact with anyone who did.

 

-- It has also been proven pangolin was not the source. A Chinese misstatement said pangolin was 99% similar. It was later shown pangolin in very different at only 90%. Nor snakes or all the other

 

Chinese authorities have now claimed many origins, none of which are backed by fact.

Here's an evidence that shows that Wuhan is unlikely to be the source of the infection:

Covid-19 Likely in U.S. in Mid-December 2019, CDC Scientists Report

The CDC and the Red Cross had reported that 1.43% of blood samples dated back to mid-December, 2019 have Covid-19 antibodies, which implies that nearly 5 million people in the US have had exposure to the virus, weeks before the first cases were reported in Wuhan.

Coupled with reports of sewage samples dated back to March 2019 in Spain that have traces of the virus, the argument that Wuhan must be the source is getting weaker.

 

[rabas]

1 hour ago, Selatan said:

Here's an evidence that shows that Wuhan is unlikely to be the source of the infection:

Covid-19 Likely in U.S. in Mid-December 2019, CDC Scientists Report

The CDC and the Red Cross had reported that 1.43% of blood samples dated back to mid-December, 2019 have Covid-19 antibodies, which implies that nearly 5 million people in the US have had exposure to the virus, weeks before the first cases were reported in Wuhan.

Coupled with reports of sewage samples dated back to March 2019 in Spain that have traces of the virus, the argument that Wuhan must be the source is getting weaker.

Sorry about the nothing burger.

 

All these reports of early SARS-2 use antibody testing. The can't detect the virus.  Antibody tests produce a small level of false positives around 1.43%.  Isn't is odd they find these uniform low levels all over?  Read the original study referenced in the referenced news article.

 

"In addition to potential cross reactivity with common human coronavirus infection (a big problem) other than SARS-CoV-2,  the findings in this report are subject to the following limitations.  First, none of the sera can be considered “true positives. ... "

 

Why does the CCP push this propaganda after a year of claims, reports, publications, interviews and images (Bat Woman) from the Wuhan Lab trying to prove the virus came from Yunnan caves?

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by rabas

[Selatan]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Sorry about the nothing burger.

 

All these reports of early SARS-2 use antibody testing. The can't detect the virus.  Antibody tests produce a small level of false positives around 1.43%.  Isn't is odd they find these uniform low levels all over?  Read the original study referenced in the referenced news article.

 

"In addition to potential cross reactivity with common human coronavirus infection (a big problem) other than SARS-CoV-2,  the findings in this report are subject to the following limitations.  First, none of the sera can be considered “true positives. ... "

 

Why does the CCP push this propaganda after a year of claims, reports, publications, interviews and images (Bat Woman) from the Wuhan Lab trying to prove the virus came from Yunnan caves?

 

Didn't you notice that it was the CDC and the Red Cross that published those findings? So why would that be China's propaganda?

It's a well known fact that closest bat coronavirus from Yunnan are decades in evolutionary difference compared to Sars-Cov-2. Which is why another animal might be involved but nothing is found either.

If you want to dispute about false positive rate, then what about this finding by cancer researchers in Italy? 11.6% good enough for you? Also another propaganda by China?

Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought

 

Quote

The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

A further SARS-CoV-2 antibodies test was carried out by the University of Siena for the same research titled “Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the pre-pandemic period in Italy”.

It showed that four cases dating back to the first week of October were positive for antibodies, meaning they had got infected in September, Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters.

 

[placnx]

20 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

This just one of many sources:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

 

First recorded in US military camps.

 

Even though they were dropping like flies, the authorities refused to close them. The soldiers were loaded onto ships bound for Europe. There is footage I have seen of them off loading the corpses when they got there.

 

Neat 'mismanagement'. No connection with China except where people want to believe it.

 

Anyone who thinks their country is 'better' and others are 'less' or even execrable and worthy of 'punishment', has a mental virus. I've travelled too much and seen too much and worked with too many people (including for America, and with American friends)  from around the world all my life. Well inoculated thank you.

 

From the same wikipedia article, in the section on origins:

China

In 1993, Claude Hannoun, the leading expert on the Spanish flu at the Pasteur Institute, asserted the precursor virus was likely to have come from China and then mutated in the United States near Boston and from there spread to Brest, France, Europe's battlefields, the rest of Europe, and the rest of the world, with Allied soldiers and sailors as the main disseminators.^[70] Hannoun considered several alternative hypotheses of origin, such as Spain, Kansas, and Brest, as being possible, but not likely.^[70] In 2014, historian Mark Humphries argued that the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines might have been the source of the pandemic. Humphries, of the Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, based his conclusions on newly unearthed records. He found archival evidence that a respiratory illness that struck northern China (where the laborers came from) in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu.^[71][72] However, no tissue samples have survived for modern comparison.^[73] Nevertheless, there were some reports of respiratory illness on parts of the path the laborers took to get to Europe, which also passed through North America.^[73]

One of the few regions of the world seemingly less affected by the Spanish flu pandemic was China, where several studies have documented a comparatively mild flu season in 1918.^[74][75][76] (Although this is disputed due to lack of data during the Warlord Period, see Around the globe.) This has led to speculation that the Spanish flu pandemic originated in China,^{[76][75][77][78]} as the lower rates of flu mortality may be explained by the Chinese population's previously acquired immunity to the flu virus.^[79][76][75]

[BusyB]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

From the same wikipedia article, in the section on origins:

China

In 1993, Claude Hannoun, the leading expert on the Spanish flu at the Pasteur Institute, asserted the precursor virus was likely to have come from China and then mutated in the United States near Boston and from there spread to Brest, France, Europe's battlefields, the rest of Europe, and the rest of the world, with Allied soldiers and sailors as the main disseminators.^[70] Hannoun considered several alternative hypotheses of origin, such as Spain, Kansas, and Brest, as being possible, but not likely.^[70] In 2014, historian Mark Humphries argued that the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines might have been the source of the pandemic. Humphries, of the Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, based his conclusions on newly unearthed records. He found archival evidence that a respiratory illness that struck northern China (where the laborers came from) in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu.^[71][72] However, no tissue samples have survived for modern comparison.^[73] Nevertheless, there were some reports of respiratory illness on parts of the path the laborers took to get to Europe, which also passed through North America.^[73]

One of the few regions of the world seemingly less affected by the Spanish flu pandemic was China, where several studies have documented a comparatively mild flu season in 1918.^[74][75][76] (Although this is disputed due to lack of data during the Warlord Period, see Around the globe.) This has led to speculation that the Spanish flu pandemic originated in China,^{[76][75][77][78]} as the lower rates of flu mortality may be explained by the Chinese population's previously acquired immunity to the flu virus.^[79][76][75]

 

"This has led to speculation ..."

 

What I posted is acknowledged fact ...

 

I have heard the term alternative facts, I know what speculation is. Both lead to what we saw in Washington this week.

 

I'm more interested in knowing if you still want to see China 'punished'?

[BusyB]

23 hours ago, Phuketshrew said:

Oh thank you oh wise one. Again, I made no mention of "Uncle Sam", you really need to improve your understanding of the content of my comment before trolling me with such nonsense. 

 

The purpose was not to troll you - I explained the purpose.

 

It was obviously a mistake to assume you were American. Sorry, to you and others and  decent Americans who understand this is  g l o b a l pandemic, and primitive howls for 'punishment' won't help you either. It needs a global, medical response, not hostility.

 

Even if it does make you feel better to let rip against China.

 

I also think I'm getting my threads mixed up here, and I've made my points, so I'll just leave it at that: hostility is not the solution.

 

All the best.

 

 

[placnx]

47 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

"This has led to speculation ..."

 

What I posted is acknowledged fact ...

 

I have heard the term alternative facts, I know what speculation is. Both lead to what we saw in Washington this week.

 

I'm more interested in knowing if you still want to see China 'punished'?

Regarding punishment for China, you're mixing me up with some other commenter.

 

If your claim that first cases were recorded in American military camps, the "first" is your claim, as there are various "firsts" out there. When we are getting into origin, that's another matter, and China in cases of flu and coronaviruses is the usual suspect due to various agricultural practices, environmental encroachment in proximity to horseshoe bat caves, taste for exotic wild species.

 

Rather than punish, many people and countries would like to see transparency, which is not a cultural trait of China, unfortunately. So a real cultural revolution may be needed to save the world from further horrors.    

[Dumbastheycome]

On 1/6/2021 at 9:33 AM, Salerno said:

 

Not really, investigating where it started and how it jumped to humans is part and parcel of any outbreak of a disease to help inform planning/actions to counter future outbreaks of similar or new diseases. Being politicised is deplorable (as is the stupid finger pointing) but shouldn't give anyone a free pass.

Very true! For all the reasons  you provide.

There is  no doubt that China  made  mistakes which they probably should have learned  from the  SARS  outbreak. It may even be that there was some presumption that like Sars did the  new virus  would prove  short lived also. But when provided with the  evidence the  Western world did NOT react as it did  before. SARS was  quickly perceived as  major threat and globally  isolation units were rapidly established  for something that did not  eventuate and therefore could be attributed in some sense of dismissal.

It  remains important in the interests of  medical science  to genuinely establish the source of C-19 if for  nothing less than perhaps understanding it's  development.

Unfortunately the belated reaction to the reality of an unfolding pandemic crisis has focused  politicised  public opinion on "blame" and disproven allegations of  deliberate production etc etc.

And that started  very  early in the situation. Unsurprisingly the Chinese  Government  has reacted strongly to the  associated criticism of it's political system as being the primary  cause.

SARS thankfully  faded away . MERS did not/has not. Has there been any equivalent finger point  blame  put  upon the  Middle East for a  virus that despite not being very contagious is also not  very survivable  if contracted. What if it  mutates  into  something  different? It is another  corona virus. Not from China.

The WHO has been presented  with a  problem that has been  mostly  created  by  politics.

In a  concurrent effort  by (mostly ) he  who  does not  deserve  naming to put false  economic personal claim to fame ahead of humanitarian realities the result is a unfortunate conflict of interest in best outcome.

 

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, placnx said:

Regarding punishment for China, you're mixing me up with some other commenter.

 

If your claim that first cases were recorded in American military camps, the "first" is your claim, as there are various "firsts" out there. When we are getting into origin, that's another matter, and China in cases of flu and coronaviruses is the usual suspect due to various agricultural practices, environmental encroachment in proximity to horseshoe bat caves, taste for exotic wild species.

 

Rather than punish, many people and countries would like to see transparency, which is not a cultural trait of China, unfortunately. So a real cultural revolution may be needed to save the world from further horrors.    

 

You missed my point entirely ... your post was an anti-china rant. 

 

We are all aware of China's weaknesses - but the world needs more positive solutions than yours.

 

Try and think of one. I have full time job so I don't spend too much time working it out on these threads.

 

In the meantime, as I said to Phuketshrew, I've mixed the thread here a little, and really can't be bothered to unravel it. Whoever wants to understand my point will.

 

All the best.

 

 

[placnx]

12 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

You missed my point entirely ... your post was an anti-china rant. 

 

We are all aware of China's weaknesses - but the world needs more positive solutions than yours.

 

Try and think of one. I have full time job so I don't spend too much time working it out on these threads.

 

In the meantime, as I said to Phuketshrew, I've mixed the thread here a little, and really can't be bothered to unravel it. Whoever wants to understand my point will.

 

All the best.

 

 

I'm quite aware of the "point" of your responses to me and others, namely to deflect attention from China's actions, in this case refusing entry to WHO investigators.

 

We need transparency to understand how such a dangerous pathogen arose, so that we may all determine how to detect as early as possible such emerging phenomena in the future.

 

Beyond this, China needs to change people's behavior based on superstitions that lead to the taste for exotic species. This now has morphed into a status contest - to consume the rarest and supposedly exquisite to glorify oneself and impress others. The reality is that this behavior does not exist in isolation; it is one of those ways to outdo one's competitors and advance up the pyramid. China needs to change cultural practices that play a part in the rise of pandemics.

 

As for your dragging America into this, what do over a million deaths all over the world have to do with Trump, etc? Please do not blame the victims.

[BusyB]

12 hours ago, placnx said:

I'm quite aware of the "point" of your responses to me and others, namely to deflect attention from China's actions, in this case refusing entry to WHO investigators.

 

We need transparency to understand how such a dangerous pathogen arose, so that we may all determine how to detect as early as possible such emerging phenomena in the future.

 

Beyond this, China needs to change people's behavior based on superstitions that lead to the taste for exotic species. This now has morphed into a status contest - to consume the rarest and supposedly exquisite to glorify oneself and impress others. The reality is that this behavior does not exist in isolation; it is one of those ways to outdo one's competitors and advance up the pyramid. China needs to change cultural practices that play a part in the rise of pandemics.

 

As for your dragging America into this, what do over a million deaths all over the world have to do with Trump, etc? Please do not blame the victims.

 

Wrong, I think China's action is appalling. I am also aware of many of that country's deficits.

 

Your 'solutions' don't help though.

 

I don't come on here to troll or bicker, my time is too precious. I come here to debate and put a different view. And to call spades spades.

 

All the best.

[BusyB]

34 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

Wrong, I think China's action is appalling. I am also aware of many of that country's deficits.

 

Your 'solutions' don't help though.

 

I don't come on here to troll or bicker, my time is too precious. I come here to debate and put a different view. And to call spades spades.

 

All the best.

 

Oh yeah, and to have a laugh, though my humor tends to have a slow fuse ;D

[Jeffr2]

On 1/8/2021 at 5:37 PM, BusyB said:

 

The purpose was not to troll you - I explained the purpose.

 

It was obviously a mistake to assume you were American. Sorry, to you and others and  decent Americans who understand this is  g l o b a l pandemic, and primitive howls for 'punishment' won't help you either. It needs a global, medical response, not hostility.

 

Even if it does make you feel better to let rip against China.

 

I also think I'm getting my threads mixed up here, and I've made my points, so I'll just leave it at that: hostility is not the solution.

 

All the best.

 

 

Sorry, but millions are now dead because of this virus.  We're not sure it's from China, but pretty sure as other viruses like this have come from there.

 

They need to deal with the sale of live animals at wet markets.  The source of all the nasty bugs.  The world needs to unite and go against China with regards to this.  Trafficking in endangered animals all for some ridiculous idea that it will help your sex life, or whatever.  This is the 21st century.  Time to stop this, and help these endangered animals survive.

 

China needs to open up, let investigators in.  This is their problem, now ours.  No hostility needed, just a unified global reaction to their misdeeds.

[BusyB]

10 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sorry, but millions are now dead because of this virus.  We're not sure it's from China, but pretty sure as other viruses like this have come from there.

 

They need to deal with the sale of live animals at wet markets.  The source of all the nasty bugs.  The world needs to unite and go against China with regards to this.  Trafficking in endangered animals all for some ridiculous idea that it will help your sex life, or whatever.  This is the 21st century.  Time to stop this, and help these endangered animals survive.

 

China needs to open up, let investigators in.  This is their problem, now ours.  No hostility needed, just a unified global reaction to their misdeeds.

 

So basically we agree. What I don't accept is the venom. China is not the only country with some pretty questionable cultural practises.

 

Ebola is also lurking in African jungles, and if that gets out we better be able to deal with it.

 

Fact is most of the world's governments (with the exception of the US so far, and cretins like Bolsonaro) are flying by the seat of their pants, within the constraints of their own culture.

 

But yes, of course China should open up. Did I say otherwise? (Rhetorical question - no need to respond.)

[placnx]

16 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

So basically we agree. What I don't accept is the venom. China is not the only country with some pretty questionable cultural practises.

 

Ebola is also lurking in African jungles, and if that gets out we better be able to deal with it.

 

Fact is most of the world's governments (with the exception of the US so far, and cretins like Bolsonaro) are flying by the seat of their pants, within the constraints of their own culture.

 

But yes, of course China should open up. Did I say otherwise? (Rhetorical question - no need to respond.)

China's exploitation of resources in Africa has also contributed to environmental encroachment and pollution and has enabled contact between bats and humans.

 

There are a couple of vaccines for Ebola, and more are under development through CEPI, which is a proactive organisation to prevent epidemics.

 

Please name a country that can compare with China for inscrutability in weighty matters such as the origin of Covid. In terms of epidemiology I don't see any examples of other countries preventing investigations.

 

Just because other countries do bad things doesn't let China or CCP off the hook, especially considering the worldwide damage caused. 

[Proboscis]

On 1/7/2021 at 5:05 PM, placnx said:

Writing fruitless letters to politicians, as many of these WHO assembly members are, is out of style. Today people use social media to shame WHO and its executives. This analysis of WHO and the proposed visit to Wuhan is informative:

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-health-organization-criticizes-china-over-delays-in-covid-19-probe-11609883140

This is a bit like shaming the managers of a company who were put in by the owners and doing the owners' bidding. As long as people don't raise these issues with their politicians and make them political issues, the electorate will get the politicians they deserve - populists who spin tales of fear, throw them a bone coming up to the election in the form of tax cuts that are usually ineffective and unfair, take huge amounts of money from special interests and business and vote accordingly so as to gain the cash to bombard voters with half-truths and some blatant lies on TV and social media. Yeah, way to go there, placnx!