1 hour ago, vogie said:

The English do not carry a massive chip on their shoulder like the SNP and their followers (or Irish). 

What ever the SNP tell us, the Scots are totally split down the middle and all the SNP can do is pour more fuel on the fire, they should be trying to heal old wounds and not opening them up again.

By 'healing wounds' can I presume that you means 'accepting the status quo'? Their whole premise is independence, and it appeals to more than half the country. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1381260/nicola-sturgeon-news-eu-guy-verhofstadt-scotland-independence-spt

Nicola Sturgeon's EU dream backed by Guy Verhofstadt's intervention: 'Let them in!'

NICOLA STURGEON's hopes for an independent Scotland to join the EU were backed by a senior figure in the bloc as Guy Verhofstadt said he was "happy to talk" with the First Minister.

By Charlie Bradley

09:30, Sun, Jan 10, 2021 | UPDATED: 16:00, Sun, Jan 10, 2021

 

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

If the relationship is so imbalanced, Scotland is such a strain and all that you get in return is umbrage, why is the government so determined to keep a hold on Scotland? 

 

As we see so vividly, the Nasty Party will happily let ex servicemen live and die on the streets. Why then, do they refuse to give independence to a country that is only a  burden to them? 

Goodness only knows, I would let them go tomorrow, see how they manage to survive then.  At least it would stop the constant whining by that irritating woman of theirs. 

Just now, Pilotman said:

Goodness only knows, I would let them go tomorrow, see how they manage to survive then.  At least it would stop the constant whining by that irritating woman of theirs. 

I believe that’s what we in Europe thought about Brexit and the Brexiteers. 

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I believe that’s what we in Europe thought about Brexit and the Brexiteers. 

good, it worked didn't it, so goose and gander applies. Lets see how Scotland would manage with no use of English ports for imports, no use of the Pound Sterling, no access to English fishing grounds, taxes for their whiskey and seafood, no more subsidies and lets not forget, no EU Membership unless they re negotiate their own entry.  Good luck with all that.  My message to their 'leaders' would be 'go, or shut the 'F 'up'.  

11 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Goodness only knows, I would let them go tomorrow, see how they manage to survive then.  At least it would stop the constant whining by that irritating woman of theirs. 

 

Or could it be that this notion of a burden you suggested is not actually correct, and that England relies to a far greater extent on Scotland than you are led to believe? Might it be, in fact, that the burden is actually in the opposite direction and that England is a net drain on Scotland's resources? 

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

By 'healing wounds' can I presume that you means 'accepting the status quo'? Their whole premise is independence, and it appeals to more than half the country. 

The SNPs whole goal in life is, and please don't call it independence is to partition the UK, you are not being independent when you wish to be tied to a federation and you cannot say that it appeals to half the country on the back of a few dodgy polls. The last time the Scots were asked "they said no"

It is more important for the Nationalists to have painty blue faces and march down Sauchiehall Street chanting their devotion to Mrs Sturgeon and simultaneously waving their banners of 'England out of Scotland' than to confront the serious drug problem Scotland has (worst in the EU).

Wake up RR as to what the SNP are doing to your once great nation, but alas I know you won't listen, you don't believe any negativity of what anyone says about your glorious leader. 

15 minutes ago, david555 said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1381260/nicola-sturgeon-news-eu-guy-verhofstadt-scotland-independence-spt

Nicola Sturgeon's EU dream backed by Guy Verhofstadt's intervention: 'Let them in!'

NICOLA STURGEON's hopes for an independent Scotland to join the EU were backed by a senior figure in the bloc as Guy Verhofstadt said he was "happy to talk" with the First Minister.

By Charlie Bradley

09:30, Sun, Jan 10, 2021 | UPDATED: 16:00, Sun, Jan 10, 2021

 

 

1 minute ago, vogie said:

The SNPs whole goal in life is, and please don't call it independence is to partition the UK,

Sorry, but that is patent nonsense and either you know it to be but seek to be inflammatory, or your knowledge of 20th century history is very poor.

 

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

you are not being independent when you wish to be tied to a federation and you cannot say that it appeals to half the country on the back of a few dodgy polls.

That is based upon your feelings towards the EU. Are you saying that you are correct and 63% of Scots are wrong? 

A few dodgy polls? 17 polls in succession say we want independence.

 

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

The last time the Scots were asked "they said no"

Again, more untruths. Scots said Yes in 1979 and yes in 2014.

 

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is more important for the Nationalists to have painty blue faces and march down Sauchiehall Street chanting their devotion to Mrs Sturgeon and simultaneously waving their banners of 'England out of Scotland'

 

 

Playground stuff again?

 

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

the serious drug problem Scotland has (worst in the EU).

It has been a problem for generations. It was not the SNP which created Scotland's social problems. Look a bit further back, another woman, but one much less loved in Scotland. She bears a lot of the responsibility. However the SNP is taking steps, limited as their powers are, especially with drug laws being reserved.

 

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Wake up RR as to what the SNP are doing to your once great nation, but alas I know you won't listen, you don't believe any negativity of what anyone says about your glorious leader. 

What are they doing? Tell me?

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Or could it be that this notion of a burden you suggested is not actually correct, and that England relies to a far greater extent on Scotland than you are led to believe? Might it be, in fact, that the burden is actually in the opposite direction and that England is a net drain on Scotland's resources? 

well it was worth writing, but of course, that's rubbish.  Don't misunderstand me, I would love the UK to stay together and the Scots to remain.  I spent 9 wonderful years living there.  But they must stop their leader's constant griping about Independence,.  As I said previously, 'either go, or shut the 'F' up' 

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry, but that is patent nonsense and either you know it to be but seek to be inflammatory, or your knowledge of 20th century history is very poor.

 

That is based upon your feelings towards the EU. Are you saying that you are correct and 63% of Scots are wrong? 

A few dodgy polls? 17 polls in succession say we want independence.

 

Again, more untruths. Scots said Yes in 1979 and yes in 2014.

 

 

 

Playground stuff again?

 

It has been a problem for generations. It was not the SNP which created Scotland's social problems. Look a bit further back, another woman, but one much less loved in Scotland. She bears a lot of the responsibility. However the SNP is taking steps, limited as their powers are, especially with drug laws being reserved.

 

What are they doing? Tell me?

 

29 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

well it was worth writing, but of course, that's rubbish.  Don't misunderstand me, I would love the UK to stay together and the Scots to remain.  I spent 9 wonderful years living there.  But they must stop their leader's constant griping about Independence,.  As I said previously, 'either go, or shut the 'F' up' 

 

You say it is rubbish without offering any evidence to the contrary; seems perfectly plausible to me. Outside London and SE, Scotland is has largest GDP per capita in the UK. It is also the largest recipient of FDI in the UK. It is not perfect, but it is not the economic drain you suggest.

 

Exporting them to the rest of the UK would be the best answer.  I'm sure the paperwork problems will be sorted though. 

9 minutes ago, transam said:

 

 

Yet the SNP is riding high in the polls and expected to take more than 50% of all votes in the next election. Funny that, them being so useless and all...

 

Sorry - I just watched the video and had to laugh. A Tory councillor who nobody has ever heard of says that the SNP has failed - is this meant to be fact driven news? Good grief! My mother, yesterday, called Johnson a lying cheat. I expect that to be tomorrow's Express front page headline.

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Yet the SNP is riding high in the polls and expected to take more than 50% of all votes in the next election. Funny that, them being so useless and all...

The polls, when folk are actually in the poll station cubical, with no one looking over their shoulder, you will probably see a totally different out come, plus, I would rather listen to real Scot business people, not shield beaters, such as these guys...

 

Don't forget UK was prepared to do a free trade deal to avoid this red tape, but the EU didn't want that!

 

Scotland is too obsessed with the EU.  It's actually a small trading partner to Scotland.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the problems are seamlessly solved with a week or two.

 

I see as usual the voracious SNP have turned this in to the usual independence debate.  

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Scotland is too obsessed with the EU.  

 

 

You say tomato, I say tomato. Don't forget - barely 1 in 3 people in the UK share the Brexiteer's hatred of the EU. 

 

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It wouldn't surprise me if the problems are seamlessly solved with a week or two.

 

 

We have had over 4 years to get to this point and the Brexiteers have failed to deliver what they promised. What will change in the next few weeks?

 

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I see as usual the voracious SNP have turned this in to the usual independence debate.  

 

I do believe that the issues are intrinsically linked. As you well know, Scotland overwhelmingly rejected the English Nationalist Brexit but were forced to accept it nonetheless, so to discuss the latter without mentioning independence is a bit of a stretch.

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Sorry, but that is patent nonsense and either you know it to be but seek to be inflammatory, or your knowledge of 20th century history is very poor.

 

That is based upon your feelings towards the EU. Are you saying that you are correct and 63% of Scots are wrong? 

A few dodgy polls? 17 polls in succession say we want independence.

 

Again, more untruths. Scots said Yes in 1979 and yes in 2014.

 

 

 

Playground stuff again?

 

It has been a problem for generations. It was not the SNP which created Scotland's social problems. Look a bit further back, another woman, but one much less loved in Scotland. She bears a lot of the responsibility. However the SNP is taking steps, limited as their powers are, especially with drug laws being reserved.

 

Sorry, but that is patent nonsense and either you know it to be but seek to be inflammatory, or your knowledge of 20th century history is very poor.

I will give that reply the contempt it deserves.

 

That is based upon your feelings towards the EU. Are you saying that you are correct and 63% of Scots are wrong? 

A few dodgy polls? 17 polls in succession say we want independence.

Both you and I know that polls are not an accurate indication of what a nation wants, whereas a referendum is totally accurate and for the umpteenth time the Scots voted to remain in the union of the UK.

 

Playground stuff again?

For once we agree on something, it is very childish to paint ones face blue whilst waving xenophobic slogans.

 

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You say tomato, I say tomato. Don't forget - barely 1 in 3 people in the UK share the Brexiteer's hatred of the EU. 

 

 

We have had over 4 years to get to this point and the Brexiteers have failed to deliver what they promised. What will change in the next few weeks?

 

 

I do believe that the issues are intrinsically linked. As you well know, Scotland overwhelmingly rejected the English Nationalist Brexit but were forced to accept it nonetheless, so to discuss the latter without mentioning independence is a bit of a stretch.

 

1. I was talking about 'obsession'.  It is as if independence is more a means to an end- to rejoin the EU. I don't hate Europe, but I'm not bothered about being out of the EU.

 

2. That's the nature of things. This is the EU making waves for a few weeks.

 

3.  The issues aren't really linked. It was a UK wide vote, you know that.  In any case, Scotland is not that unified on the issues of both the EU, and exit from the UK.

 

 

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You say tomato, I say tomato. Don't forget - barely 1 in 3 people in the UK share the Brexiteer's hatred of the EU. 

 

 

We have had over 4 years to get to this point and the Brexiteers have failed to deliver what they promised. What will change in the next few weeks?

 

 

I do believe that the issues are intrinsically linked. As you well know, Scotland overwhelmingly rejected the English Nationalist Brexit but were forced to accept it nonetheless, so to discuss the latter without mentioning independence is a bit of a stretch.

 

A moribund fishing industry already in its death throes cries out...

 

Next?

On 1/9/2021 at 9:27 AM, Dogbarker said:

Would love to see these products actually offered at local supermarkets in the UK even at a reduced price it would establish a market for other fished products again...

 

there is a vaguely similar thing happening in Australia due to the trade war with china, the Lobsters can get through in to china so now they have to sold locally.

 

maybe someone will have to take a cut in margin and sell locally, may be it would help the quality of food in restaurants (when they open!).

 

As others have said, no Surprise and they can't say they weren't warned

 

Shaemus

 

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

It wouldn't surprise me if the problems are seamlessly solved with a week or two.

 

 

We have had over 4 years to get to this point and the Brexiteers have failed to deliver what they promised. What will change in the next few weeks?

 

Ah yes, it's the accursed Brexiteers fault again. Still doesn't explain...

 

On 1/8/2021 at 6:29 PM, vogie said:

The SNP have failed to recruit inspectors for the fish after receiving £1 million from the treasury for such an event, they are worse than useless.

 

"From January every catch will need to have an environmental health certificate, signed off by an environmental health officer.

It was revealed on Thursday that the Scottish Government is still 100 officers short – with just weeks to go until Brexit.

MPs are demanding answers as to why there is a shortage, given Holyrood has received more than £100 million from the Treasury over the last three years to prepare for such things."

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/2682145/brexit-scottish-fish-producers-hit-by-ministers-recruitment-mess/

 

The Scottish government have had the same amount of time as everyone else to prepare for either no deal or a deal, both of which would have needed EHO's and inspectors for the fisheries sector. Maybe they were reading their Nambarrie tea leaves and casting the runes in the belief that an 11th hour Remain would descend on them like the Rapture? Fiddling while Holyrood burned?

 

In that linked news article from NOVEMBER last year when commenting on the effort from Westminster to assist Scotland with the shortage;

 

"... North-east MP Andrew Bowie welcomed the extra support, but raised concerns about the SNP’s commitment to the sector.

He said: “I have real concerns the SNP are setting our councils and fishermen up to fail, judging by the lack of preparation they have put into Brexit.

 

The UK Government has put the structure in place to take advantage of the sea of opportunity. ..."

 

I guess they don't eat many langoustines, scallops, oysters, lobsters and mussels in Edinburgh either.

14 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Don't forget UK was prepared to do a free trade deal to avoid this red tape, but the EU didn't want that!

 

Scotland is too obsessed with the EU.  It's actually a small trading partner to Scotland.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the problems are seamlessly solved with a week or two.

 

I see as usual the voracious SNP have turned this in to the usual independence debate.  

 

If they were so prepared to do a full trade deal with the EU, the UK would not have exited the Common Market. 

 

The UK would not even put their cards on the table on what their proposed starting negotiating position was (what they saw as an agreement) until very very late.  

 

The EU gave UK it's position much earlier.

 

Simply put, if you want seamless trade without red tape at the borders - you have to have common standards.  Without common standards, you have to have a border check to check that only those which have agreed to common standards in. 

 

Services include labour.

 

What the UK wanted was to be cherry pick what they wanted and leave on the table what they did not want as part of that.  In other words they wanted a superior deal to being a member of the EU itself.  If the EU were to give the UK a special deal like that ... All members would want equality with that regard and that would be the end of the EU.   That was always completely unrealistic.  I mentioned that way back early on this board and all the brexiters were saying - no way they can get a better deal because Britain was special and held all the power in this relationship... what it showed to me was that brexiters were always a bunch of delusional <deleted>. 

 

 

10 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

 

If they were so prepared to do a full trade deal with the EU, the UK would not have exited the Common Market. 

 

The UK would not even put their cards on the table on what their proposed starting negotiating position was (what they saw as an agreement) until very very late.  

 

The EU gave UK it's position much earlier.

 

Simply put, if you want seamless trade without red tape at the borders - you have to have common standards.  Without common standards, you have to have a border check to check that only those which have agreed to common standards in. 

 

Services include labour.

 

What the UK wanted was to be cherry pick what they wanted and leave on the table what they did not want as part of that.  In other words they wanted a superior deal to being a member of the EU itself.  If the EU were to give the UK a special deal like that ... All members would want equality with that regard and that would be the end of the EU.   That was always completely unrealistic.  I mentioned that way back early on this board and all the brexiters were saying - no way they can get a better deal because Britain was special and held all the power in this relationship... what it showed to me was that brexiters were always a bunch of delusional <deleted>. 

 

 

 

Free trade is self explanatory.  UK wanted it, EU didn't.  

9 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Free trade is self explanatory.  UK wanted it, EU didn't.  

You mean the UK wanted free movement of labour?  Labour is just another service...

 

BTW, Free trade is just theoretical when it comes to free trade agreements (free trade agreements are 1000s of pages, very detailed and specific)... it is all managed access to a market where both parties negotiate to make sure they get at least some benefit out of it.   The free-est trade is where you create a common market (i.e. domestic) -- but the UK walked away from that. 

53 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You mean the UK wanted free movement of labour?  Labour is just another service...

 

BTW, Free trade is just theoretical when it comes to free trade agreements (free trade agreements are 1000s of pages, very detailed and specific)... it is all managed access to a market where both parties negotiate to make sure they get at least some benefit out of it.   The free-est trade is where you create a common market (i.e. domestic) -- but the UK walked away from that. 

The free-est trade is where both sides exchange goods without add-on extras

someone has apples to sell  and other side has oranges to sell

person goes into bar and orders a beer and pays for the beer

when that person ask's if he can sleep with the owner wife as an add-on extra that is considered an unfair free trade agreement

On 1/11/2021 at 11:50 AM, mommysboy said:

Don't forget UK was prepared to do a free trade deal to avoid this red tape, but the EU didn't want that!

 

Scotland is too obsessed with the EU.  It's actually a small trading partner to Scotland.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the problems are seamlessly solved with a week or two.

 

I see as usual the voracious SNP have turned this in to the usual independence debate.  

Of course the UK was willing to do a free trade deal. Actualy, more like eager to do a free trade deal. Does the phrase "having your cake and eating it too" mean anything to you?

5 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You mean the UK wanted free movement of labour?  Labour is just another service...

 

BTW, Free trade is just theoretical when it comes to free trade agreements (free trade agreements are 1000s of pages, very detailed and specific)... it is all managed access to a market where both parties negotiate to make sure they get at least some benefit out of it.   The free-est trade is where you create a common market (i.e. domestic) -- but the UK walked away from that. 

 

Then they are a misnomer, aren't they?

 

Nevertheless, it is clear the UK is eager to trade liberally with any other country, including the EU. Some countries are eager to do that, some aren't.  Don't make out the UK is in any way to blame for this.  It was a devil of a job to get even the Canada style deal.  Is it comparable with what Canada has with the USA for instance?  That would be a reasonable comparison.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Of course the UK was willing to do a free trade deal. Actualy, more like eager to do a free trade deal. Does the phrase "having your cake and eating it too" mean anything to you?

 

It's just fair trade- both ways. 

 

One party says let's do this easily, the other says no we'll do it the hard way.  OK, it's a free world.  But don't blame the UK.