Prior infection confers immunity (as most thought)

[mommysboy]

It's not 100%, but ....

 

Various versions of the same story have appeared in respected news outlets including Reuters.  

 

https://www.ft.com/content/929ef3cd-8611-49b2-9f23-918dc3470166

 

Basically, recovering from covid19 confers the same immunity as a good vaccine for at least the time period of the study.

 

In effect then, in estimating herd immunity these people should be considered as the same as those who have been vaccinated.

 

But any sensible person knew this all along, surely!

[Boomer6969]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But any sensible person knew this all along, surely!

I didn't and still don't, as I have no reliable source or study that confirms it.

[mommysboy]

Well you have now!  Read the report from PHE.

 

Anyway, it's really more up to you to prove there is no immunity, since immunity following URI viral infection is a proven concept.

[robblok]

I get why people who have had the virus might not want to vaccinate as they are already immune (or at least according to the research). But they might still need to be vaccinated if they want to enter other countries. I doubt that other countries will make an exception. Its kinda hard to prove. But maybe they will find a way to prove it and give them a certificate or something. 

[Crossy]

27 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

https://www.ft.com/content/929ef3cd-8611-49b2-9f23-918dc3470166

 

Do you have a source that's not behind a paywall?

 

[Susco]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

I get why people who have had the virus might not want to vaccinate as they are already immune (or at least according to the research)

 

But that is not correct, as has been proven by multiple cases, from people who got infected more than once.

 

And that also makes me question, how effective any vaccine will be

[Crossy]

Until our OP comes up with a link we can read there's no point continuing this discussion.

 

Until I or another Mod get a PM of a usable link this thread is closed.

 

[Crossy]

Another member has PM'd me the link below which appears to have the same content as our OPs link.

 

https://www.wionews.com/world/coronavirus-infection-provides-as-much-immunity-as-vaccines-study-356564

 

Not a site I've heard of so if anyone has something from a better known source please post.

 

And a Reuters link

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-immunity/covid-19-infection-gives-some-immunity-for-at-least-five-months-uk-study-finds-idINKBN29J004

 

 

[rabas]

"Not a site I've heard of so if anyone has something from a better known source please post."

 

It's called the SIREN study and applies only to Health Care Workers for a period of 5 months, though it is a good and important study.  Here are some links. From Nature:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00071-6

 

Some expert reaction for here:

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-preprint-from-the-siren-study-looking-at-sars-cov-2-infection-rates-in-antibody-positive-healthcare-workers/

 

These are interim results so there is no final publication. The published protocol is here.

Edited January 14, 2021 by rabas

[cormanr7]

There is an important point missing (or I have overlooked it): when people speak about having had coronavirus, do they mean serious cases which had to hospitalized or any infected person, including a-symptomic cases. Often the immune response is a function of the severity of the  For SARS and MERS for instance, people with few symptoms showed low antibody titers which gradually waned and disappeared after less than 6 months. For severe cases, antibodies were still present after 5 years.

Then there is the case of the Brazilian nurses that have been re-infected by a new COVID mutant strain (E484K, possibly derived from the South African mutant) that possibly evades the antibody response https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/new-coronavirus-mutation-raises-vaccine-questions-1.5264776. Using just the spike protein in many currently developed vaccines is risky as that is where many of the mutations occur. Next generation vaccines will be required that also attack other parts of the virus.

In Germany every 10th sample will now be sequenced rather than one in 900 previously.

Edited January 14, 2021 by cormanr7
add last sentence

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, cormanr7 said:

There is an important point missing (or I have overlooked it): when people speak about having had coronavirus, do they mean serious cases which had to hospitalized or any infected person, including a-symptomic cases. Often the immune response is a function of the severity of the  For SARS and MERS for instance, people with few symptoms showed low antibody titers which gradually waned and disappeared after less than 6 months. For severe cases, antibodies were still present after 5 years.

Then there is the case of the Brazilian nurses that have been re-infected by a new COVID mutant strain (E484K, possibly derived from the South African mutant) that possibly evades the antibody response https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/new-coronavirus-mutation-raises-vaccine-questions-1.5264776. Using just the spike protein in many currently developed vaccines is risky as that is where many of the mutations occur. Next generation vaccines will be required that also attack other parts of the virus.

In Germany every 10th sample will now be sequenced rather than one in 900 previously.

 

I think in this instance immunity is taken to be as per vaccine trials- not showing active infection.  It is an important point as you say.  It is not known to what extent, if any, natural immunity prevents transmission of the virus.  The body, as with vaccines, produces neutralizing antibodies.  In my opinion, herd immunity is not possible to achieve with this type of virus, however there will come a point with the aid of vaccines and natural immunity where nearly nobody falls seriously ill.  In nature, when a virus is weakened in its effects it can be crowded out by new kids on the block (viral supremacy).

[mommysboy]

19 hours ago, Susco said:

 

But that is not correct, as has been proven by multiple cases, from people who got infected more than once.

 

And that also makes me question, how effective any vaccine will be

 

It's mostly correct, isn't it?

 

Those 'multiple cases' represent a small amount of people when you consider how many millions have already had it and don't get sick again.

 

But there is one thing- immunity, be it natural or by way of inoculation is not sterilizing immunity- so it doesn't actually prevent reinfection, rather it prevents active infection and serious illness. And this really means that herd immunity may not be possible imo.  Instead, we will have herd protection.  Indeed the vaccines be it Sinovac, or Pfizer seem to lend themselves admirably to this.

 

The vaccines are likely to be highly effective at preventing serious illness, that's already been proven. And we know natural immunity is not so much proven as a general axiom.  How could you think otherwise? If it were not true there would be thousands of viruses that never go away perpetually and repeatedly infecting the population.