Trump, in wave of Tuesday pardons, so far not planning to pardon himself: source

[webfact]

Trump, in wave of Tuesday pardons, so far not planning to pardon himself: source

By Steve Holland

 

FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump speaks to the media before boarding Air Force One to depart Washington on travel to visit the U.S.-Mexico border Wall in Texas, at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, U.S., January 12, 2021. REUTERS/Carlos Barria/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump at this point is opting not to issue a pardon for himself as he prepares an expansive list of more than 100 pardons and commutations for release on Tuesday, a source familiar with the effort said.

 

White House advisers have said Trump has privately debated with advisers whether to take the extraordinary step of issuing a pardon for himself but some administration officials have cautioned Trump against a self-pardon because it would make him look guilty.

 

Many scholars have said a self-pardon would be unconstitutional because it violates the basic principle that nobody should be the judge in his or her own case.

 

Others have argued that a self-pardon is constitutional because the pardon power is very broadly worded in the Constitution. Historical texts made clear that the nation’s 18th century founders discussed self-pardons, but opted not to include an explicit limitation on that power.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump at this point is opting not to issue a pardon for himself as he prepares an expansive list of more than 100 pardons and commutations for release on Tuesday, a source familiar with the effort said. This report produced by Yahaira Jacquez.

 

Trump was impeached by the Democratic-led House of Representatives last week on charges of inciting the storming of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 by pro-Trump protesters. His case is to face a Senate trial and if convicted, he could be disqualified from seeking another run for the presidency in 2024.

 

The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said so far Trump does not plan to pardon himself and also does not plan to issue preemptive pardons for members of his family, another subject he has discussed privately with advisers.

 

Trump, who has already issued two waves of pardons in the past month, met advisers on Sunday to finalize a list of more than 100 pardons and commutations, the source said.

 

CNN reported that Dr Salomon Melgen, a prominent eye doctor from Palm Beach who is in prison after being convicted on dozens of counts of health care fraud, is expected to be on the clemency list.

 

The source said the clemencies were expected to be issued on Trump's last full day in office on Tuesday. Skipping the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden, Trump leaves on Wednesday morning to begin his post-presidency at his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida. His presidency ends at noon on Wednesday.

 

(Reporting By Steve Holland; Editing by Robert Birsel)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-19

 

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[tomyami]

he will pardon himself and family on his last day the guy has no morals

[sirineou]

Pardoning himself would be the biggest mistake he could possibly make, and I am sure his lawyers have told him so.

First of all it would not stand, if it did it would be the end of American democracy. Second, it would invite a federal indictment to challenge the assertion that he pardoned himself and is immune from prosecution.  I am sure there is no shortage of things they can charge him with.

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by sirineou

[Tug]

My guess he’s going to hang on till the last hour then resign and have pence pardon him but who the heck knows he is what he is and will do what he does after he’s done you and me for whatever he can 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

My guess he’s going to hang on till the last hour then resign and have pence pardon him but who the heck knows he is what he is and will do what he does after he’s done you and me for whatever he can 

I wander if that was the plan - Mr Pence may not be so keen to play ball after a Trump inspired riot came looking for him?

[Whale]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

if it did it would be the end of American democracy.

 

Why? 

[LomSak27]

The Swamp must be pardoned. Then many of the swamp dwellers have friends, criminals who pay, er,    contribute money. It's trough time on the farm. 

[shdmn]

His neighbors are fighting his plans to live in mar-a-lago.  Nobody is allowed to live there based on an agreement made with the city.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/17/trump-mar-a-lago-club-neighbors-florida

Edited January 19, 2021 by shdmn

[placeholder]

There's a special office in the Justice Dept devoted at finding cases where a pardon is justified. Trump has virtually ignored that office but instead has overwhelmingly pardoned the politically and financially well-connected.

[Orton Rd]

Nothing to pardon himself for, it's the media who have crucified him for the past 4 years who need a pardon.

[sirineou]

20 minutes ago, Whale said:

 

Why? 

Isn't it obvious? 

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

38 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Nothing to pardon himself for, it's the media who have crucified him for the past 4 years who need a pardon.

And the voters, who maliciously failed to re-elect the great man...

[mtls2005]

I think he'll keep a self-pardon secret, and whip it out if/when required, and count on SCOTUS to back him up down the line.

 

Interesting that the kids table aren't (rumored now) getting pardons? Guess those could be secret as well?

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by mtls2005

[nobodysfriend]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

First of all it would not stand, if it did it would be the end of American democracy.

If that is true , he will do it ... !

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Whale said:

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

if it did it would be the end of American democracy.

 

Why? 

You're probably being disingenuous, but I'll bite.  Imagine if a President Biden orders the assassination of Trump.  Presidents can't be indicted while in office, so he pardons himself before he leaves.  Sound good to you? 

[J Town]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Nothing to pardon himself for, it's the media who have crucified him for the past 4 years who need a pardon.

Really? You're gonna make me break this out AGAIN?!?

 

1. 45 doesn't read books nor security briefings.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/

2. Doesn't honorably pay his bills.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-45-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

3. 45 gleefully described how he uses his fame to grope and harass women.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-10-07/hot-mic-catches-donald-45-bragging-about-sexual-assault

4. 45 has openly endorsed violent retaliation against people who disrupt his rallies, offering to pay their legal fees.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-45-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

5. Direct quote: "I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/24/donald-45-says-he-could-shoot-somebody-and-still-not-lose-voters

6. 45 shared a hilarious story about not wanting to help a dying man.
https://www.gq.com/story/donald-45-howard-stern-story

7. Lied about seeing thousands in New Jersey cheering when World Trade Center tumbled.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/nov/22/donald-45/fact-checking-45s-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/

8. 45 told security to take protesters' coats: 'Throw them out into the cold'.
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265172-45-tells-security-to-confiscate-protesters-coats

9. 45 is removing expertise from all levels of government.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-45-is-changing-science-environment/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/climate/45-administration-war-on-science.html
https://civilrights.org/45-rollbacks/

10. 45 is profiting from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as president, including overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, a direct violation of the emoluments clause.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/45-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496
https://www.businessinsider.com/45-charges-secret-service-for-protection-hotel-properties-report-2020-2

11. His policies have separated children from their families while managing to lose track of over 1500 kids.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/us/45-immigrant-children-lost.html

12. Demonstrated Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress for which he was impeached.
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/116th-congress/house-report/346/1

13. 45 paid Court-Ordered $2 Million For illegally using 45 Foundation Funds.
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-45-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-45-foundation

14. 45 quote: “[Biden] was only a good vice president because he figured out how to kiss Barack Obama’s ass.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/45-attacks-bidens-in-personal-and-coarse-terms-at-minnesota-rally/2019/10/10/3c2304c2-ebc6-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html

15. 45 attacked Democratic Rep. Debbie Dingell and her late husband, Rep. John Dingell, during a rally on Wednesday, implying the former congressman was "looking up" from hell.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/18/politics/45-rally-john-dingell-hell/index.html

16. Called for the assassination of an Iranian military leader and lied about the reason.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/45-case-for-killing-soleimani-iran-lies.html

17. 45 fired people who testified against him.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alexander-vindman-gordon-sondland-45-white-house-ukraine-impeachment-latest-a9324531.html

18. Has been firing Inspector Generals for suspect motives. In two cases, questions were raised about whether the dismissals related to ongoing IG investigations into the conduct of the cabinet secretary in charge of that department. The cumulative firings are often described as a "purge" or as a "war on watchdogs".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_dismissal_of_inspectors_general#:~:text=On Friday%2C May 15%2C at,Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

19. Declared the Covid-19 a "Democratic hoax" AFTER having been warned for months by his advisers how this was going to be a serious problem, resulting in unnecessary deaths.
https://www.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=007115

20. Had U.S. citizens gassed and flash bombed so he could pose for a phony photo op. The church pastor vehemently condemned this act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_45_photo_op_at_St._John's_Church
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/45-st-johns-church-visit-staging-bishop-mariann-budde/

21. Said "George Floyd is looking down from heaven and appreciating the great day in terms of equality."
https://news.knowledia.com/US/en/articles/45-suggests-george-floyd-is-looking-down-from-heaven-and-e7241a79a337a52aea47eb87182b4675b02eb3aa

 

22. Incited a riot/coup attempt. No sources needed here, we all know them.
 
This is by no means the complete list, just a taste of why we think 45 is scum.

[J Town]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

I think he'll keep a self-pardon secret, and whip it out if/when required, and count on SCOTUS to back him up down the line.

 

Interesting that the kids table aren't (rumored now) getting pardons? Guess those could be secret as well?

 

 

I recently saw an interview of a woman who specialized in presidential pardons. 45 did NOT run this through the DOJ which is the way it's usually done. Technically, he CAN keep it secret.

 

He really attacked the US democracy in every way possible, and seeing as he's not smart enough to think these ploys himself, I can only imagine who was whispering in his ear.

[Whale]

27 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

You're probably being disingenuous, but I'll bite.  Imagine if a President Biden orders the assassination of Trump.  Presidents can't be indicted while in office, so he pardons himself before he leaves.  Sound good to you? 

 

Meh. Then repeal or redefine the law. Has nothing to do with the "end of democracy".

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, Whale said:

 

Meh. Then repeal or redefine the law. Has nothing to do with the "end of democracy".

Through 44 presidents, there never seemed to be a need to spell out the obvious.  But if Trump pardons himself, I would expect the Congress to take steps to remove this ambiguity. 

[phantomfiddler]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Pardoning himself would be the biggest mistake he could possibly make, and I am sure his lawyers have told him so.

First of all it would not stand, if it did it would be the end of American democracy. Second, it would invite a federal indictment to challenge the assertion that he pardoned himself and is immune from prosecution.  I am sure there is no shortage of things they can charge him with.

 

"It would be the end of American democracy" ??  What democracy ?  Democracy ended in America 4 years ago, making U.S. close to the world's least democratic country. It would appear that there are millions over there who haven't a clue what democracy entails ????

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

"It would be the end of American democracy" ??  What democracy ?  Democracy ended in America 4 years ago, making U.S. close to the world's least democratic country. It would appear that there are millions over there who haven't a clue what democracy entails ????

I would agree that we have big challenges in that respect, but we were able to use the system to get rid of a despot wanbee, in a democratic manner. 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

If that is true , he will do it ... !

  It sounds to me like pulling a gun that you know it will not fire, knowing that the moment they see you with a gun they will have to fire at you.

[vandeventer]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Nothing to pardon himself for, it's the media who have crucified him for the past 4 years who need a pardon.

Pardon the Media, something will freeze over be fore that happens. 100 million plus Americans know that the American media is trying to take away our free speech. The truth must come out as to  why, as it effects us all. 

[mtls2005]

Just now, vandeventer said:

100 million plus Americans know that the American media is trying to take away our free speech.

 

100 million poorly educated citizens who lack a basic understanding of their rights.

 

The First Amendment protects against the Government, not "the American media".

 

Fox, OAN, The Daily Stormer, etc. all remain trusted news sources avaialble to you.

 

 

[Psimbo]

At  an(alleged) up to USD 2m a pardon that's a nice little final earner for the grifter.

[Sujo]

7 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Pardon the Media, something will freeze over be fore that happens. 100 million plus Americans know that the American media is trying to take away our free speech. The truth must come out as to  why, as it effects us all. 

Free speech has nothing to do with media, its to do with the govt.

[Psimbo]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

My guess he’s going to hang on till the last hour then resign and have pence pardon him but who the heck knows he is what he is and will do what he does after he’s done you and me for whatever he can 

In that case he wouldn't be able to blag a last minute flight on AF-1 and have the bigliest, bangiest gun  salute and flyover as he disappears into history as the worst president ever.

 

I'm willing to be the biggliest gun  salute and flyover will not happen. Typical of his arrogance- trying to usurp Biden's inauguration with his own little parade at Andrews. Best thing the press could do is stay away- that would really urinate on his ego and complete the humiliation.

[J Town]

8 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

At  an(alleged) up to USD 2m a pardon that's a nice little final earner for the grifter.

The way this works is just like a lobbyist. The money doesn't go to 45, the brokers are selling access to him. And if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

You're probably being disingenuous, but I'll bite.  Imagine if a President Biden orders the assassination of Trump.  Presidents can't be indicted while in office, so he pardons himself before he leaves.  Sound good to you? 

If anything gets Biden the Nobel Peace Prize that would be it.

[Phoenix Rising]

39 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Pardon the Media, something will freeze over be fore that happens. 100 million plus Americans know that the American media is trying to take away our free speech. The truth must come out as to  why, as it effects us all. 

Well, if you know why then why don't just spell it out for us poor souls why still haven't seen The Truth?