EU stokes anger with plan to restrict vaccine exports through Irish border

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

<snip>

Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility

 As president of the Commission the buck stops with her and she should accept the responsibility for this atrocious act.

 

If that means resigning, then so be it.

 

Sacking? Up to the Council of Ministers, not an ex member.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

"Asked the Commission to take over."

 

Which is not the same as " Halted by the intervention of the EU bureaucrats!"

 

You seem to have forgotten that the UK government did not authorise the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine until 30th December 2020;  more than 6 months after the first of your press releases!

 

So what is your point?

 

 

And have you forgotten what the date was When the EU authorised the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine Friday 29th January 2021

PS I post what might be of interest to other fellow forum members if you don't like  what I post there always the ignore button

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 As president of the Commission the buck stops with her and she should accept the responsibility for this atrocious act.

 

If that means resigning, then so be it.

 

Sacking? Up to the Council of Ministers, not an ex member.

Is Germany an ex member now 

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

True but when people were being interviewed just after the event the subject was the corona virus and latest development,perhaps you were preparing your tea and scones when this occured.

 

I did not say that the virus was not mentioned. I did not say that a demonstration against new police powers developed into a riot over the French response to the pandemic. The opposite in fact.

 

What I did was quote both Sky News and the Express, in which the French government was blamed by interviewees, not the EU, the Commission nor Brussels.

 

Having had a, admittedly quick, Google search I cannot find a single report in which a single demonstrator mentions the EU, the Commission or Brussels at all. Can you?

 

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And have you forgotten what the date was When the EU authorised the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine Friday 29th January 2021

So your point is that the EU authorised AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine 30 days after the UK!

 

Which does not alter the fact that "Asked the Commission to take over" is completely different to "Halted by the intervention of the EU bureaucrats!"

 

Which brings me back to my original point in response to @superal's post: all 27 EU members could have done the same as the UK and used the appropriate EU regulation to take unilateral action. They all chose not too.

 

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

PS I post what might be of interest to other fellow forum members if you don't like  what I post there always the ignore button

Are you really saying that you believe members should not respond to or comment on your posts?

 

Or is is just members who disagree with you?

 

Whichever, you have a very strange idea of what a forum is!

 

BTW, unlike certain other members I am not afraid of reading and responding to posts which disagree with and challenge my views. I believe the ignore button is for those who have difficulty justifying their opinions when challenged.

 

 

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

<snip>

Sacking? Up to the Council of Ministers, not an ex member.

Is Germany an ex member now 

 

Germany is, like all members, represented on the Council of Ministers.

 

As you well know, the ex member to which I refer is, obviously, the UK. What other ex members are there? None.

[vinny41]

36 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

"Asked the Commission to take over."

 

Which is not the same as " Halted by the intervention of the EU bureaucrats!"

 

You seem to have forgotten that the UK government did not authorise the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine until 30th December 2020;  more than 6 months after the first of your press releases!

 

So what is your point?

 

 

According to this article the members of the “Inclusive Vaccine Alliance” countries (Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands)  were ordered to stop and let the Comission take over

But it now appears Mrs Merkel blocked an initiative by the German, French, Italian and Dutch health ministers to order more stocks of  vaccine last summer.

Bild newspaper published a leaked letter from the four health ministers to Ursula von der Leyen in which they agreed to drop the initiative and hand over control of vaccine orders to the European Commission.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/04/angela-merkel-blocked-bid-secure-coronavirus-vaccine/

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

According to this article the members of the “Inclusive Vaccine Alliance” countries (Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands)  were ordered to stop and let the Comission take over

But it now appears Mrs Merkel blocked an initiative by the German, French, Italian and Dutch health ministers to order more stocks of  vaccine last summer.

Bild newspaper published a leaked letter from the four health ministers to Ursula von der Leyen in which they agreed to drop the initiative and hand over control of vaccine orders to the European Commission.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/04/angela-merkel-blocked-bid-secure-coronavirus-vaccine/

One of the pitfalls of brexit. Dont complain about them when you leave.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Germany is, like all members, represented on the Council of Ministers.

 

As you well know, the ex member to which I refer is, obviously, the UK. What other ex members are there? None.

And the articles that I posted

German politicians and media turn on 'careless' Ursula von der Leyen over Covid vaccine fiasco

Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility

The people in the article are Germans 

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Sujo said:

One of the pitfalls of brexit. Dont complain about them when you leave.

Who complaining It does appear the Remainers on here don't want to see any posts that portray a negative picture of the EU comission

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Who complaining It does appear the Remainers on here don't want to see any posts that portray a negative picture of the EU comission

 

 

Really?

 

Remainers do that do they ?

 

 

????????

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So your point is that the EU authorised AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine 30 days after the UK!

 

Which does not alter the fact that "Asked the Commission to take over" is completely different to "Halted by the intervention of the EU bureaucrats!"

 

Which brings me back to my original point in response to @superal's post: all 27 EU members could have done the same as the UK and used the appropriate EU regulation to take unilateral action. They all chose not too.

 

Are you really saying that you believe members should not respond to or comment on your posts?

 

Or is is just members who disagree with you?

 

Whichever, you have a very strange idea of what a forum is!

 

BTW, unlike certain other members I am not afraid of reading and responding to posts which disagree with and challenge my views. I believe the ignore button is for those who have difficulty justifying their opinions when challenged.

 

 

You asked me So what is your point?

I replied I don't really care if you reply to my posts or not

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

According to this article the members of the “Inclusive Vaccine Alliance” countries (Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands)  were ordered to stop and let the Comission take over

But it now appears Mrs Merkel blocked an initiative by the German, French, Italian and Dutch health ministers to order more stocks of  vaccine last summer.

Bild newspaper published a leaked letter from the four health ministers to Ursula von der Leyen in which they agreed to drop the initiative and hand over control of vaccine orders to the European Commission.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/04/angela-merkel-blocked-bid-secure-coronavirus-vaccine/

 That article is behind a paywall.

 

Angela Merkel ‘blocked efforts by EU ministers to stock up on virus vaccine’ isn't.

 

This was an act of the German Chancellor, not the EU Commission.

 

Also a suggestion; not an order. After which the four governments 

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

agreed to drop the initiative and hand over control of vaccine orders to the European Commission.

 "Agreed to;" not forced to by EU bureaucrats!

[7by7]

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And the articles that I posted

German politicians and media turn on 'careless' Ursula von der Leyen over Covid vaccine fiasco

Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility

The people in the article are Germans 

 Indeed they are. You'll find demands she resign from other EU members as well if you look.

 

Which does not alter in any way my point that the UK, as we are no longer a member of the EU, has no say whatsoever over her future!

[vinny41]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 Indeed they are. You'll find demands she resign from other EU members as well if you look.

 

Which does not alter in any way my point that the UK, as we are no longer a member of the EU, has no say whatsoever over her future!

I never stated that the UK did

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Who complaining It does appear the Remainers on here don't want to see any posts that portray a negative picture of the EU comission

 

Really?

 

No, in fact we have been highly critical of the Commission over this. From one of my own posts

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The use of Article 16 in this matter was a huge mistake by the EU......

.....it was a foolish and unnecessary action....

 ....Subsequent pressure from member states, the RoI in particular, has ensured their servant, the Commission, has, rightly, rescinded this terrible decision......

a major blunder (by) the EU....

 

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You asked me So what is your point?

I replied I don't really care if you reply to my posts or not

 

Yet you quote and respond to my replies every time!

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I never stated that the UK did

 Except when I stated that it was nothing to do with us for some reason known only to you,  you started blathering on about Germany!

[vinny41]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Except when I stated that it was nothing to do with us for some reason known only to you,  you started blathering on about Germany!

Because the UK has left the EU doesn't restrict anyone from posting anything about the EU or its members states regardless of their nationality

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 As president of the Commission the buck stops with her and she should accept the responsibility for this atrocious act.

 

If that means resigning, then so be it.

 

Sacking? Up to the Council of Ministers, not an ex member.

No need to sack her. 

 

The EU electorate will have the opportunity to remove her at the ballot bo...

 

Oh wait a minute.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, kingdong said:

And the pair of clogs i ordered before christmas still haven,t arrived,if i haven,t got them by easter am going to take up morris dancing.

 

You know it makes sense.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yet you quote and respond to my replies every time!

 

It's called politeness.

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I did not say that the virus was not mentioned. I did not say that a demonstration against new police powers developed into a riot over the French response to the pandemic. The opposite in fact.

 

 

Having had a, admittedly quick, Google search I cannot find a single report in which a single demonstrator mentions the EU, the Commission or Brussels at all. Can you?

 

I did not say the demo developef into a riot over the french response to the pandemic either,just heard one interviewee blaming brussels in response to a question of a topical nature put at the time.

[Scott]

Inflammatory, troll posts removed.   Continue and face a suspension. 

 

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nkg said:

 

There's a huge difference between talking about the possibility of doing something (invoking Article 16), and actually doing it!

 

I see you're struggling to form those words "The EU .... got ... that ... wro ..." - nope, you're incapable of saying it ????

 

You seem to be incapable of understanding the point had nothing whatsover to do with the rights and wrongs of the EU.

Article 16 means checks at the Irish border, end of story, and unacceptable by either side, threats included.

[transam]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The use of Article 16 in this matter was a huge mistake by the EU; one they have rescinded and acknowledged. Although it was not done out of vindictiveness towards the UK; despite the fervent wish of some here that it was so. It was done to prevent suppliers using the the open border between the RoI and NI as a route to other countries.

 

However, it was a foolish and unnecessary action by the Commission; condemned by member states: EU 'fiasco' on N Ireland heaps pressure on Commission

 Subsequent pressure from member states, the RoI in particular, has ensured their servant, the Commission, has, rightly, rescinded this terrible decision.

 

Covid: EU and UK 'reset' relations after NI vaccine row

 

Although a major blunder, the EU did use Article 16 of the WA; unlike Boris who simply threatens to ignore his WA completely and is praised by some for so doing.

At last, you have to concede your club has serious flaws, yet, you still have to snipe at your own country.

But expected.....

[superal]

14 hours ago, vinny41 said:

According to this article the members of the “Inclusive Vaccine Alliance” countries (Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands)  were ordered to stop and let the Comission take over

But it now appears Mrs Merkel blocked an initiative by the German, French, Italian and Dutch health ministers to order more stocks of  vaccine last summer.

Bild newspaper published a leaked letter from the four health ministers to Ursula von der Leyen in which they agreed to drop the initiative and hand over control of vaccine orders to the European Commission.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/04/angela-merkel-blocked-bid-secure-coronavirus-vaccine/

Cannot follow this link cos the screen is taken up by the Telegraph asking you to take up a free trial 

[superal]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Where did you hear this?

 

As stated at the time; all 27 EU members could have done the same as the UK and used the appropriate EU regulation to take unilateral action. They all chose not too.

 

Also, other regulators, such as the FDA in the US, chose the more cautious approach followed by the EU27.

 

U.K. coronavirus vaccine authorization prompts grumbling by countries taking slower approach

The EU and the FDA were both sluggish in their approval for the Pfizer vaccine . There were certainly political overtones from the EU ( Brexit frictions )  on not to ape the UK emergency vaccine approval and simarlilee the USA dragged their feet cos of their aloofness and will do it our way attitude . 

                Sadly , global politics have been too prominent in this pandemic . If only the WHO had been a more potent body and a truly recognised centre of excellence that would have enabled a united world wide effort instead of international squabbling . 

[nkg]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

You seem to be incapable of understanding the point had nothing whatsover to do with the rights and wrongs of the EU.

Article 16 means checks at the Irish border, end of story, and unacceptable by either side, threats included.

 

Your point was a feeble attempt to justify the EU's actions. Bluespunk and 7by7 both showed their integrity in this thread by stating that the EU had got it wrong. It's a shame that you were unable to join them.

[7by7]

On 1/31/2021 at 1:43 PM, vinny41 said:

Because the UK has left the EU doesn't restrict anyone from posting anything about the EU or its members states regardless of their nationality

 

Indeed it does not.

 

But for reasons known only to you, you brought Germany up in response to a post of mine about the UK!