Biden moves to reverse Trump immigration policies, too slowly for some

[Sujo]

3 minutes ago, J Town said:

Could that be because Fox/Newsmax/OAN TELL them to?

You can always tell a trump supporter by their fake facts and issues that are not there.

[J Town]

Just now, Sujo said:

You can always tell a trump supporter by their fake facts and issues that are not there.

To put not too fine a point, there are members who have at last gone silent cuz of their chagrin.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The USA once before in the 17th and 18th century "imported" cheap labor.  We are still paying the price for doing that. 

So the huge wave of immigration in the 19th and early 20th century never happened? And they didn't bring children with them?

[EVENKEEL]

On 2/3/2021 at 1:28 AM, Cory1848 said:

Huh? The Europeans who entered the US in the early twentieth century were from the lowest classes, economically speaking -- why else would they be fleeing their home countries? You sound like Trump, wondering out loud why America can’t get more “Norwegians” to emigrate to the US. (Why on earth would a Norwegian want to go live there?) Also, Americans did not even consider these European immigrants to be white people at the time -- look at any political cartoons from the era depicting Irish, Italians, etc. Just as “swarthy” or “olive-skinned” -- or “brown” -- as Latin American immigrants today, for those who place importance on such things.

You know f$%@ all about those who came over in the 20's and before. My father came over in the 20's college educated, a banker, spoke 4 languages. He came to America for the adventure. He loved America and the possibilities here.  

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

You know f$%@ all about those who came over in the 20's and before. My father came over in the 20's college educated, a banker, spoke 4 languages. He came to America for the adventure. He loved America and the possibilities here.  

Thank you for sharing that piece of family history with us. What exactly does that have to do with the  effect on the US economy of those European immigrants who didn't arrive with your father's advantages?

[EVENKEEL]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thank you for sharing that piece of family history with us. What exactly does that have to do with the  effect on the US economy of those European immigrants who didn't arrive with your father's advantages?

It is a story of what America symbolized. Those immigrants were wanted and needed. The days of needing people for manual labor is over. 

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

It is a story of what America symbolized. Those immigrants were wanted and needed. The days of needing people for manual labor is over. 

Are you the same person who wrote this?

"You know f$%@ all about those who came over in the 20's and before. My father came over in the 20's college educated, a banker, spoke 4 languages."

[J Town]

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

It is a story of what America symbolized. Those immigrants were wanted and needed. The days of needing people for manual labor is over. 

Wow, you tell some porkies but this is one of your top ten. No manual labor needed? Pleeeeeeeeeze!

[Front Row]

On 2/3/2021 at 10:38 AM, NorthernRyland said:

Those were Europeans though. Now we're talking about the underclass from various South American countries. Not even the middle class but people that are so desperate they need to enter illegally. This is a totally new class of immigrant in 2020 than in 1920. 

Racist much? 

[J Town]

5 minutes ago, Front Row said:

Racist much? 

Not racist at all, member is stating facts as he/she sees them. Project racism much?

[Front Row]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:00 PM, Nout said:

When Trump used executive orders he was accused of being undemocratic but now Biden is doing the same he is lauded by the leftists and liberals. Might some people consider this shameful hypocrisy?  Just wait until the same kind of actions are used against the war on 'domestic terror' (1st Ammendment Rights to Freedom of Speech) as already mooted by AOC..

The first piece of legislation that the Biden administration sent to Congress was an immigration bill.  I think that says a lot.  It's obvious to both sides that it is not possible to have an effective immigration policy that's executed via dueling EOs.  But with Congress so polarized, I don't expect much progress will be made on immigration legislation.  Would it be possible to address the Dreamers with a simple stand alone bill that gets voted up or down?  A majority of Americans (70%, I think) support such a pathway.  Resolving that one issue would be a good first step.  But I'm not holding my breath.

[EVENKEEL]

43 minutes ago, J Town said:

Wow, you tell some porkies but this is one of your top ten. No manual labor needed? Pleeeeeeeeeze!

We have plenty of workers in the states already. 

[J Town]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

We have plenty of workers in the states already. 

The entire west coast complains every year that there aren't enough field workers. The service industry all over the country complains not being able to find enough dependable workers. Sorry, porkies label still stands.

[placeholder]

Just now, J Town said:

The entire west coast complains every year that there aren't enough field workers. The service industry all over the country complains not being able to find enough dependable workers. Sorry, porkies label still stands.

The dairy industry in the USA would collapse without undocumented aliens. As would the meat processing industry.

[Thomas J]

5 hours ago, J Town said:

You don't live there, you don't know. What a bunch of wasted words.

How much would you like to wager if I posted an advertisement at $100 per hour I would get flooded with applicants.  The point is, no you can not hire Americans to work for slave wages.  That is why they target illegals since they know they are illegal and will work for a pittance.  So long as that continues they will continue to exploit them.  It would be no different if GM said it couldn't hire assembly line workers for $5.00 per hour so it imports them from Honduras.  That is not the way the system is suppose to work.  And for all of you liberals who decry the income disparity, the more people flooded to fill the jobs that don't require an education or a skill trade, the lower those wages remain.  So you are helping the illegals and hurting the unskilled US Citizen by not allowing his/her wages to rise since there is always another illegal willing to work for less. 

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, J Town said:

Not racist at all, member is stating facts as he/she sees them. Project racism much?

But the distinction between  European underclass immigrants and Mexican andCentral American immigrants it should be a distinction without a difference. But for him there is some crucial difference. Why is it ok for the European underclasses to be immigrants to the USA but not people from South of the Border? What is the salient difference? And I don't understand why you see a conflict with a member "stating facts as he/she sees them" and those alleged facts being based on racism or some other irrational prejudice.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

We have plenty of workers in the states already. 

Yup. American citizens are lining up to harvest lettuce, slaughter chickens, and shovel cow manure.

Edited February 4, 2021 by placeholder

[Scott]

In my experience working with refugees, asylum seekers and displaced people, it is never a good idea to allow illegal migrants to remain in a country.  Ultimately, when people aren't legal, they present problems from public health concerns to crime.   They are subject to misuse and mistreatment. 

 

People entering who apply for asylum are not illegal and there is no reason they need to be mistreated.  They are entitled to a speedy and fair hearing.  Allowing people to remain in limbo causes major problems.  People have lives, they get married, they have children, they establish roots.  

 

There are mechanisms for foreign laborers to work in the US.  It might be wise to make that a little easier and more available.  Temporary and seasonal workers are relatively easy to manage, but for the dairy farmers, the good workers are not seasonal, they are long term.   Provisions need to be made to allow them to stay long term.

 

 

 

 

 

[J Town]

9 hours ago, Thomas J said:

How much would you like to wager if I posted an advertisement at $100 per hour I would get flooded with applicants.  The point is, no you can not hire Americans to work for slave wages.  That is why they target illegals since they know they are illegal and will work for a pittance.  So long as that continues they will continue to exploit them.  It would be no different if GM said it couldn't hire assembly line workers for $5.00 per hour so it imports them from Honduras.  That is not the way the system is suppose to work.  And for all of you liberals who decry the income disparity, the more people flooded to fill the jobs that don't require an education or a skill trade, the lower those wages remain.  So you are helping the illegals and hurting the unskilled US Citizen by not allowing his/her wages to rise since there is always another illegal willing to work for less. 

 

Just repeating the same wasted words jumbled up in a different order.

[EVENKEEL]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Yup. American citizens are lining up to harvest lettuce, slaughter chickens, and shovel cow manure.

In the 70's I worked on a large 600 cow dairy throughout high school working before school and after school feeding the hay morning and night, irrigating the corn, washing down the milk barn, building fences and not a single illegal in sight. The workers only got a bit over min wage but were given a house, free milk and a free calf to raise every so often. Not too shabby. The orchards used illegals to pick the crops but when the crop was picked they moved on to the next farm. They didn't set up housekeeping, when the crops were finished they returned to their homeland. In those days the pickers were paid piece work and could easily double the minimum wage. 

 

On one hand we complain about low wages which is a legit complaint, but the influx of illegals fuels the low wages. If you blame big business you'd be right. The illegals moved from the fields to being carpenters, working warehouses, which were previously good paying jobs to what we have today. 

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

In the 70's I worked on a large 600 cow dairy throughout high school working before school and after school feeding the hay morning and night, irrigating the corn, washing down the milk barn, building fences and not a single illegal in sight. The workers only got a bit over min wage but were given a house, free milk and a free calf to raise every so often. Not too shabby. The orchards used illegals to pick the crops but when the crop was picked they moved on to the next farm. They didn't set up housekeeping, when the crops were finished they returned to their homeland. In those days the pickers were paid piece work and could easily double the minimum wage. 

 

On one hand we complain about low wages which is a legit complaint, but the influx of illegals fuels the low wages. If you blame big business you'd be right. The illegals moved from the fields to being carpenters, working warehouses, which were previously good paying jobs to what we have today. 

Well, whatever the merits of your claims, you had a president who claimed to be anti-immigrant and for his first 2 years had a House and a Senate that were Republican. It would have been really simple to create harsh penalties, including imprisonment, for business owners who hired illegals. For some bizarre reason they chose not to do that. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the Trump organizations hiring of such people. Maybe Trump didn't know that so many of his employees were illegal aliens and was shocked, truly shocked,  to learn that such was the case.

Edited February 5, 2021 by placeholder

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, whatever the merits of your claims, you had a president who claimed to be anti-immigrant and for his first 2 years had a House and a Senate that were Republican. It would have been really simple to create harsh penalties, including imprisonment, for business owners who hired illegals. For some bizarre reason they chose not to do that. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the Trump organizations hiring of such people. Maybe Trump didn't know that so many of his employees were illegal aliens and was shocked, truly shocked,  to learn that such was the case.

Not just Trump but every administration for decades is to blame for the situation we have today. The word for anyone in the USA illegally is "illegal alien" not to be confused with an immigrant who immigrated legally.

[placeholder]

52 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Not just Trump but every administration for decades is to blame for the situation we have today. The word for anyone in the USA illegally is "illegal alien" not to be confused with an immigrant who immigrated legally.

The difference being that it was central to both Trump's campaign and his presidency. The Biden Administration wants to pass a minimum wage law. That might go a long way towards making the hiring of American citizens and legal residents more appealing. What's significant is that boosting the minimum wage is opposed mostly by most of those who support building the wall.

[Cory1848]

20 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

You know f$%@ all about those who came over in the 20's and before. My father came over in the 20's college educated, a banker, spoke 4 languages. He came to America for the adventure. He loved America and the possibilities here.  

Yes, and my parents emigrated to the US in the 1940s as war refugees, my father having already obtained a medical degree. That doesn’t make it so for the vast majority who came impoverished. And I didn’t intend for my original post to be taken so personally, or so uncivilly.

[Thomas J]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:21 AM, J Town said:

ust repeating the same wasted words jumbled up in a different order.

let me ask you.  You live in Thailand.  I am from the USA a first world country but to enter Thailand I have to be 1. Over 50 years old, 2. Show I have no criminal background  3. Have to prove I have the financial resources to live here  4. Have to have health insurance so I do not run up a bill and not pay  5. I can not vote, I can not buy a single family residence, 7. I have to report my location every 90 days.  8. I can not work here. 9. I certainly am not entitled to any government assistance program and I doubt if I had non Thai children they would get free schooling. 

Compare that to the USA. 

Why is it that you have no problem with a third world country protecting itself by imposing standards for entry but seem to have no problem with a first world country having any standards for who enters the country and not only can live there but also is now entitled to benefits.  

The USA needs immigrants.  There is a shortage of people in the medical profession, nursing profession, welders, plumbers, pipefitters, computer programmers, engineers.  

Why should the USA have to accept every indigent who wishes to come and not be selective in terms of who it "invites" to live there. 

Calling these people immigrants is like calling a person who breaks into your home an "undocumented guest." 

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs



 

[J Town]

Just now, Thomas J said:

let me ask you.  You live in Thailand.  I am from the USA a first world country but to enter Thailand I have to be 1. Over 50 years old, 2. Show I have no criminal background  3. Have to prove I have the financial resources to live here  4. Have to have health insurance so I do not run up a bill and not pay  5. I can not vote, I can not buy a single family residence, 7. I have to report my location every 90 days.  8. I can not work here. 9. I certainly am not entitled to any government assistance program and I doubt if I had non Thai children they would get free schooling. 

Compare that to the USA. 

Why is it that you have no problem with a third world country protecting itself by imposing standards for entry but seem to have no problem with a first world country having any standards for who enters the country and not only can live there but also is now entitled to benefits.  

The USA needs immigrants.  There is a shortage of people in the medical profession, nursing profession, welders, plumbers, pipefitters, computer programmers, engineers.  

Why should the USA have to accept every indigent who wishes to come and not be selective in terms of who it "invites" to live there. 

Calling these people immigrants is like calling a person who breaks into your home an "undocumented guest." 

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs



 

Your logic is a little fuzzy. I'm also a US expat, been here 15 years.

 

1 - The US is not a first world country. Used to be, but union busting and corporate greed has brought it to its knees. In the categories of education, health care, social progress, high-speed transportation, vacation time, internet speed, minimum wage, parental leave, freedom of the press (43rd globally!!!), passport strength . . . you get the picture. The US is falling far behind.

 

Ways other countries are leaving the US in the dust (businessinsider.com)

 

2 - Thailand is a developing country, not a "third world country" as you put it. I have no problem with Thailand enforcing its immigration policies and never said anything to the contrary. YOU put those words down, not me.

 

3 - The US was always proud to be that "beacon on the hill," a bastion of the great experiment known as democracy, eager to help the rest of the world. Politicians on both sides of the aisle keep this issue live and heated, an open sore they keep unhealed cuz it keeps citizens divided. There are currently an estimated 12 million illegals working in the country. A common sense worker's visa would put this to rest and put ICE down like the rabid dog it is, but the division is GOOD for politics. The policy of the US was to give aid to those seeking asylum, and as the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet, could easily afford it if insane corporate greed wasn't stopping it.

 

If a monkey had most of the bananas in the forest, and more than half the rest of the monkeys were starving, scientists would study what the hell was wrong with that monkey.  Humans do that and get their picture on the cover of Forbes.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

let me ask you.  You live in Thailand.  I am from the USA a first world country but to enter Thailand I have to be 1. Over 50 years old, 2. Show I have no criminal background  3. Have to prove I have the financial resources to live here  4. Have to have health insurance so I do not run up a bill and not pay  5. I can not vote, I can not buy a single family residence, 7. I have to report my location every 90 days.  8. I can not work here. 9. I certainly am not entitled to any government assistance program and I doubt if I had non Thai children they would get free schooling. 

Compare that to the USA. 

Why is it that you have no problem with a third world country protecting itself by imposing standards for entry but seem to have no problem with a first world country having any standards for who enters the country and not only can live there but also is now entitled to benefits.  

The USA needs immigrants.  There is a shortage of people in the medical profession, nursing profession, welders, plumbers, pipefitters, computer programmers, engineers.  

Why should the USA have to accept every indigent who wishes to come and not be selective in terms of who it "invites" to live there. 

Calling these people immigrants is like calling a person who breaks into your home an "undocumented guest." 

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs



 

Excellent well thought out post, thank you.

 

1 hour ago, J Town said:

Your logic is a little fuzzy. I'm also a US expat, been here 15 years.

 

1 - The US is not a first world country. Used to be, but union busting and corporate greed has brought it to its knees. In the categories of education, health care, social progress, high-speed transportation, vacation time, internet speed, minimum wage, parental leave, freedom of the press (43rd globally!!!), passport strength . . . you get the picture. The US is falling far behind.

 

Ways other countries are leaving the US in the dust (businessinsider.com)

 

2 - Thailand is a developing country, not a "third world country" as you put it. I have no problem with Thailand enforcing its immigration policies and never said anything to the contrary. YOU put those words down, not me.

 

3 - The US was always proud to be that "beacon on the hill," a bastion of the great experiment known as democracy, eager to help the rest of the world. Politicians on both sides of the aisle keep this issue live and heated, an open sore they keep unhealed cuz it keeps citizens divided. There are currently an estimated 12 million illegals working in the country. A common sense worker's visa would put this to rest and put ICE down like the rabid dog it is, but the division is GOOD for politics. The policy of the US was to give aid to those seeking asylum, and as the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet, could easily afford it if insane corporate greed wasn't stopping it.

 

If a monkey had most of the bananas in the forest, and more than half the rest of the monkeys were starving, scientists would study what the hell was wrong with that monkey.  Humans do that and get their picture on the cover of Forbes.

You stating the USA is not a First world country says it all, The USA is the most giving nation on earth.

[J Town]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Excellent well thought out post, thank you.

 

You stating the USA is not a First world country says it all, The USA is the most giving nation on earth.

And you obviously cannot see truth. Read the link I posted. Or, if you don't have the patience to read, watch this:
The Newsroom - America is not the greatest country in the world anymore...(Restricted language) - YouTube

 

The only things the US is #1 are:

1. Number of incarcerated citizens per capita

2. Number of people who believe angels are real

3. Largest military

Edited February 6, 2021 by J Town

[EVENKEEL]

Just now, J Town said:

And you obviously cannot see truth. Read the link I posted. Or, if you don't have the patience to read, watch this:
The Newsroom - America is not the greatest country in the world anymore...(Restricted language) - YouTube

Can't be bothered to listen to BS, bye bye

[J Town]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

Can't be bothered to listen to BS, bye bye

As always when confronted with cold, hard facts:

 

Deny, Ignore, Lie, Deflect, Obfuscate