WHO says all hypotheses still open in probe into virus origins

[stevenl]

No surprise at all that the TVF experts know better than the WHO experts, even those that were on the ground.

[Scott]

A post with unsubstantiated claims has been removed and replies edited. 

[Proboscis]

13 hours ago, WineOh said:

It came from China.

 

There you go, case closed. 

And the previous world pandemic of 100 years ago that killed over 50 million, the so-called Spanish Flu, came from the USA, most likely a turkey farm in Pennsylvania. Do we also say, "There you go, case closed" too? What does it really tell us?

[bangon04]

"We have always said that this mission would not find all the answers"

 

mainly because we cannot afford to upset our Chinese sponsors......

[Enoon]

7 hours ago, candide said:

And it includes Thailand. I recently watched a TV program showing some places in Northern Thailand being monitored in order to detect possible emergence of new viruses.

 

Eastern Thailand featuring in this article:

 

"Southeast Asia, due to its richness in both relevant bat species diversity and population density, may be more likely to be a hotspot for such viruses."

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety-quality/study-finds-coronavirus-related-bat-viruses-thailand

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Enoon

[candide]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

Eastern Thailand featuring in this article:

 

"Southeast Asia, due to its richness in both relevant bat species diversity and population density, may be more likely to be a hotspot for such viruses."

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety-quality/study-finds-coronavirus-related-bat-viruses-thailand

 

 

As I remember, new plantations and artificial lakes were cited on TV as aggravating factors, as they caused new opportunities for different species to meet and contaminate each other.

[JimHuaHin]

Fact 1 - it is very difficult, if not impossible, to investigate anything if the investigators are not allowed to go where they need to go and collect the data that need to be collected (ask any scientist, researcher or criminal investigator).

 

Fact 2 - unless you are an archaeologist or an historian, the researchers/investigators of the "event" need access as soon as possible after the "event"  For example, a plane crash, a murder, the investigators are at the scene ASAP. to collect evidence, before the evidence and the scene are disturbed; not 13 months after the event under restrictions.

 

If a "suspect" is innocent, he/she/they will most likely provide full cooperation and access to all data inorder to prove their innocence ASAP.  The innocent have nothing to hide, only the guilty.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

Fact 1 - it is very difficult, if not impossible, to investigate anything if the investigators are not allowed to go where they need to go and collect the data that need to be collected (ask any scientist, researcher or criminal investigator).

 

Fact 2 - unless you are an archaeologist or an historian, the researchers/investigators of the "event" need access as soon as possible after the "event"  For example, a plane crash, a murder, the investigators are at the scene ASAP. to collect evidence, before the evidence and the scene are disturbed; not 13 months after the event under restrictions.

 

If a "suspect" is innocent, he/she/they will most likely provide full cooperation and access to all data inorder to prove their innocence ASAP.  The innocent have nothing to hide, only the guilty.

But the question is: guilty of what? 

[Bkk Brian]

Not all the WHO investigators were happy. China hiding the origins of the virus

 

"Chinese authorities refused to provide World Health Organization investigators with raw, personalized data on early COVID-19 cases that could help them determine how and when the coronavirus first began to spread in China

 

The authorities turned down requests to provide such data on 174 cases of Covid-19 that they have identified from the early phase of the outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan in December 2019.

 

"They showed us a couple of examples, but that's not the same as doing all of them, which is standard epidemiological investigation," Dominic Dwyer, an Australian microbiologist on the WHO team"

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-refused-raw-data-could-044038047.html

 

 

[Mike Rodik]

I just hope one day, the truth MIGHT come out and then some people own other people and apology

[placnx]

19 hours ago, placeholder said:

And I'm supposed to take your word for that? I googled it and came up with nothing.

What's more, even if the funds were dedicated to gain of function research, would that be a bad thing?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/

 

Please read Chapter VI about Ralph Baric's research on altering natural viruses to enhance ability to infect other species. Quote: "Baric and Shi Zhengli of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the two top experts on the genetic interplay between bat and human coronaviruses, began collaborating in 2015." In Chapter X the PREDICT program is described and Batwoman's involvement, through EcoHealth Alliance, Daszak's NY foundation. Chapter XII gives further detail about the Baric-Batwoman research collaboration. Anyway, you can learn a lot by reading the entire article.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

 

There are many linked sources. For example, here is a paper mentioned in Chapter IV that was in preprint before it vanished:

https://img-prod.tgcom24.mediaset.it/images/2020/02/16/114720192-5eb8307f-017c-4075-a697-348628da0204.pdf

 

You can also read about lab accidents and a report from a visit to the Wuhan lab in 2018. Without proper staff training, I think that GoF research is inadvisable (and so do various scientists).

 

Nicholson Baker is a good, very diverse writer who wrote a book about biowarfare research, in the US at Fort Detrick in the 50s. 

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/553978/baseless-by-nicholson-baker/

[placnx]

18 hours ago, Proboscis said:

And the previous world pandemic of 100 years ago that killed over 50 million, the so-called Spanish Flu, came from the USA, most likely a turkey farm in Pennsylvania. Do we also say, "There you go, case closed" too? What does it really tell us?

Actually, sleuths have uncovered an epidemic in NE China the year before with symptoms matching "Spanish" flu. So life was cheap and nobody cared. It took a long time to connect the dots. It's postulated that Chinese workmen imported to Canada brought the virus to the West.

[placnx]

16 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Eastern Thailand featuring in this article:

 

"Southeast Asia, due to its richness in both relevant bat species diversity and population density, may be more likely to be a hotspot for such viruses."

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety-quality/study-finds-coronavirus-related-bat-viruses-thailand

 

 

Thailand has quite good public health, so an outbreak would be noticed and not covered up!

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Mike Rodik said:

I just hope one day, the truth MIGHT come out and then some people own other people and apology

When the time comes, we promise to accept your apology graciously.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, placnx said:

Please read Chapter VI about Ralph Baric's research on altering natural viruses to enhance ability to infect other species. Quote: "Baric and Shi Zhengli of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the two top experts on the genetic interplay between bat and human coronaviruses, began collaborating in 2015." In Chapter X the PREDICT program is described and Batwoman's involvement, through EcoHealth Alliance, Daszak's NY foundation. Chapter XII gives further detail about the Baric-Batwoman research collaboration. Anyway, you can learn a lot by reading the entire article.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

 

There are many linked sources. For example, here is a paper mentioned in Chapter IV that was in preprint before it vanished:

https://img-prod.tgcom24.mediaset.it/images/2020/02/16/114720192-5eb8307f-017c-4075-a697-348628da0204.pdf

 

You can also read about lab accidents and a report from a visit to the Wuhan lab in 2018. Without proper staff training, I think that GoF research is inadvisable (and so do various scientists).

 

Nicholson Baker is a good, very diverse writer who wrote a book about biowarfare research, in the US at Fort Detrick in the 50s. 

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/553978/baseless-by-nicholson-baker/

But nothing about Covid-19 specifically. The researchers there collected hundreds of samples.

[Proboscis]

19 hours ago, placnx said:

Actually, sleuths have uncovered an epidemic in NE China the year before with symptoms matching "Spanish" flu. So life was cheap and nobody cared. It took a long time to connect the dots. It's postulated that Chinese workmen imported to Canada brought the virus to the West.

Completely misleading. There are a number of diseases, including different varieties of flu, that match the symptoms of "Spanish" flu. The best experts in the subject believe that the zoonosis occurred in the USA with the first human case in Pennsylvania and the most likely origin was from turkeys.

 

For your outlandish scenario to work, the Chinese workmen would have had to make it to Canada, somehow not infect any other humans along the way but somehow give it exclusively to turkeys that would have had to have been transported to Pennsylvania without transmitting it to anyone else before infecting the workers on the turkey farm. Hmmm.

 

[placnx]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

But nothing about Covid-19 specifically. The researchers there collected hundreds of samples.

In terms of technology, it's the smoking gun. If you read the article you would know that it's not just about collecting in caves and quarries. It's about the experiments to transform these samples into even more infectious pathogens. So that's why UK and US, no doubt many other countries, want access to this Wuhan research product.

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, placnx said:

In terms of technology, it's the smoking gun. If you read the article you would know that it's not just about collecting in caves and quarries. It's about the experiments to transform these samples into even more infectious pathogens. So that's why UK and US, no doubt many other countries, want access to this Wuhan research product.

Which research product would that be?

[placnx]

2 hours ago, Proboscis said:

Completely misleading. There are a number of diseases, including different varieties of flu, that match the symptoms of "Spanish" flu. The best experts in the subject believe that the zoonosis occurred in the USA with the first human case in Pennsylvania and the most likely origin was from turkeys.

 

For your outlandish scenario to work, the Chinese workmen would have had to make it to Canada, somehow not infect any other humans along the way but somehow give it exclusively to turkeys that would have had to have been transported to Pennsylvania without transmitting it to anyone else before infecting the workers on the turkey farm. Hmmm.

 

Here's a link:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

There was an earlier theory published in 1923 suggesting Kansas, but bird species could not be known. Please show the link to your turkey story.

 

 

 

[placnx]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Which research product would that be?

Coronaviruses

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, placnx said:

Coronaviruses

There are a huge number of coronaviruses. The lab in Wuhan collected most of them.

[placeholder]

Just now, placeholder said:

There are a huge number of coronaviruses that come from bats.. The lab in Wuhan collected most of them. None of them were Covid 19.

 

[rabas]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

Which research product would that be?

 

Gain of function experiments done on potentially dangerous human pandemic viruses to study how they may infect human tissue, done all over the world for years. This is what Bat Woman researched and published in international journals. She is famous for it. There are no secrets or cover ups.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by rabas

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

 

Gain of function experiments done on potentially dangerous human pandemic viruses to study how they may infect human tissue, done all over the world for years. This is what Bat Woman researched and published in international journals. She is famous for it. There are no secrets or cover ups.

 

 

And yet, that's what the researchers at the Wuhan lab are accused of doing. 

[rabas]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

And yet, that's what the researchers at the Wuhan lab are accused of doing. 

Exactly. So people who say it can't come from a lab do not know what they are talking about. There are also many ways to alter or design a virus, some are hard to detect.

 

After the 2015 paper, scientists and authorities began questioning the safety of these experiments because it was a new lab, China's first attempt at BSL4 lab, and was sited for a lack of safety and insufficiently trained personnel (reference). In high tech, new is when accidents happen.

 

You do know that SARS-1 was leaked twice from Beijing's virological  lab eventually killing someone.

 

BMC:  SARS escaped Beijing lab twice

 

[placeholder]

32 minutes ago, rabas said:

Exactly. So people who say it can't come from a lab do not know what they are talking about. There are also many ways to alter or design a virus, some are hard to detect.

 

After the 2015 paper, scientists and authorities began questioning the safety of these experiments because it was a new lab, China's first attempt at BSL4 lab, and was sited for a lack of safety and insufficiently trained personnel (reference). In high tech, new is when accidents happen.

 

You do know that SARS-1 was leaked twice from Beijing's virological  lab eventually killing someone.

 

BMC:  SARS escaped Beijing lab twice

 

Except that there are a huge number of changes that can be effected in a Covid virus. And this variant came from via changes that had no precedent in research.

[placnx]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

There are a huge number of coronaviruses. The lab in Wuhan collected most of them.

They were generally collecting coronaviruses from bats. There may be lots more out there, not to mention any lab experiments. After that there are other species, but these may have originated in bats.

[placnx]

16 hours ago, rabas said:

 

Gain of function experiments done on potentially dangerous human pandemic viruses to study how they may infect human tissue, done all over the world for years. This is what Bat Woman researched and published in international journals. She is famous for it. There are no secrets or cover ups.

 

 

Her research was published to some extent. Unfortunately, the WHO people could not examine her creations, lab books, etc, AFAIK. I guess we'll have to wait for the final report and any leaks.

[placnx]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

And yet, that's what the researchers at the Wuhan lab are accused of doing. 

The thought is that they created SARS2, perhaps not realizing it at first, and because it is so infectious it escaped by infecting someone in the lab.