Undeterred by Facebook news blackout, Australia commits to content law

[tgw]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

Yes advertising.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/politics/2021-02-21/government-escalates-facebook-feud-by-pulling-advertising/13177688

 

okay, that's not "paying for using the platform"

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, tgw said:

 

okay, that's not "paying for using the platform"

Its paying to boost their information pages. So i believe but im in no way an expert on how fb works, nor do i want to be.

 

But they just lost millions per year.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

wow, government spending money on facebook? I didn't know that.

was it for ads? or what kind of service?

Primarily ads. Oz government spent A$53million with Google last fiscal year.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/16/google-and-facebook-the-landmark-australian-law-that-will-make-them-pay-for-news-content

 

Some more info on government ad spending...

 

https://www.transparency.gov.au/sites/default/files/support_documents/campaign-advertising-by-australian-government-departments-and-agencies-report-2018-19_-_2.pdf

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by simple1

[7by7]

11 hours ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

 

I can't leave Facebook because I opted to NEVER be a part of it.   I dislike its controlling nature.

 

 

Again, your choice.

 

No one is forced to join, no one who has joined is prevented from leaving.

[tgw]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Primarily ads. Oz government spent A$53million with Google last fiscal year.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/16/google-and-facebook-the-landmark-australian-law-that-will-make-them-pay-for-news-content

 

Some more info on government ad spending...

https://www.transparency.gov.au/sites/default/files/support_documents/campaign-advertising-by-australian-government-departments-and-agencies-report-2018-19_-_2.pdf

 

 

I guess the bill for news would have been far more than 53 million!

Anyway, I don't see the fuss about all this.

The law is nonsense and the logical consequence ensued.

[pacovl46]

13 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Apparently not so “pretty fricking obvious” as someone here was claiming that Facebook is restricting what he can and cannot say — not what Facebook is doing with their content on their platform.

 

Again, what he obviously meant was Facebook is restricting what he can and cannot say on their platform. Where else would they restrict it? It’s sooooooo obvious and you just got it down the wrong neck or you’re trying to split hairs or you’re trolling! 

[Sujo]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Again, your choice.

 

No one is forced to join, no one who has joined is prevented from leaving.

The leaving part is difficult. Someone who knows fb can explain it more clear but i believe the profile is not deleted and any pics are forever there to be used by fb anytime they want.

[mfd101]

And the latest news is:

(1) Europe is considering moving along the same lines as Oz & France, as are UK & Canada.

(2) US Congress is considering considering the matter.

(3) Google & Oz News Corp have done a deal (several days ago)

(4) Facebook is in negotiation with Oz News Corp.

 

Australia 2, Facebook 0 in the 3rd quarter.

[brucec64]

On 2/20/2021 at 9:11 AM, thesetat2013 said:

Facebook is in itself a form of cyberterrorism. They choose what they want to censure.. Decide what they think should be permitted or what they want the public to believe. Force you to divulge private information that is stored forever on their mainframes. They conspire with other platforms to block content based on their own perceptions. There is no freedom within the platform and those who use it daily are puppets to what facebook moderators deem good for your mentality. 

Platforms like facebook should permit freedoms to say what you think.. They should pay for news the same that is otherwise paid for on the news services sites. 

In essence their use of links collect them income and take away income from the news services platforms. I read many comments in here that prove most tvf posts do not seem to understand this. Imagine if you opened a website and charged money for registration or a flat fee to access the information that was on your link.. Then along comes FB and bypasses your link to pay for this access. You would want it stopped also. Then imagine because you told FB to stop that they blocked your other links for emergency aid or where to go for help.. FB is the one extorting.. FB is the one cheating and stealing. FB is the one that needs to be taken out to pasture. 

How many times did you check your Facebook today? Facebook is a private company and nobody is forcing you to use it.

 

Also, many of the news site are actually free. Since Facebook is just a link to these sites, if the sites have a paywall, it will still be there with a Facebook link.

[welovesundaysatspace]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Again, your choice.

 

No one is forced to join, no one who has joined is prevented from leaving.

The question here is what “to join” means, I.e. Facebook automatically taking my phone number, email address, name and other data and putting it in their database vs. me adding a password to that data and accessing the Facebook platform with it. You don’t have a choice over the first one even though your  personal data joined Facebook. You’re just not using that account but let Facebook use it alone. One could argue you already joined Facebook. 
 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[mfd101]

And, in exciting news just to hand, Facebook is returning Oz news to its website and the Oz government is modifying its legislation (expected to go thru the Senate this week) to give advance warning to companies before it invokes the compulsory arbitration provisions.

 

Australia 3, Facebook 1 in the final quarter.

[mlmcleod]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:25 PM, pacovl46 said:

Facebook does pay taxes. I’m not sure about the rest of the world, but they do pay taxes in Australia! 

What content taxes do they pay?

 

[7by7]

8 hours ago, Sujo said:

The leaving part is difficult. Someone who knows fb can explain it more clear but i believe the profile is not deleted and any pics are forever there to be used by fb anytime they want.

 

Just like Thai Visa, then!

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Just like Thai Visa, then!

I dont believe thai visa has a trove of our personal pics and vids for them to use any time they want, even after our membership has been stopped.

 

As far as i know this site is anonymous. Fb isnt.

[pacovl46]

7 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

What content taxes do they pay?

 

They don’t. Why should they? It’s not Facebook who posts content! They pay business tax, though.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

I dont believe thai visa has a trove of our personal pics and vids for them to use any time they want, even after our membership has been stopped

 

Anything ever posted by a member here is still in the archives.

 

Unless things have been changed dramatically since I was a Mod, membership of TVF can never end. Members can't resign, just stop posting and, although they can't post, banned members also remain on the active members list!

 

Our details are also used to tailor the ads we see here.

 

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

As far as i know this site is anonymous. Fb isnt.

Non members can see what we post, though they cannot see who we are. Members can only see what we choose to put in our profiles.

 

Any Facebook member can see any other member's profile; but, like TVF, only whatever details that member chose to put. I have had friend requests from people I don't know, and on checking their profiles the only personal information publicly available in their about info is their user name.

 

All very similar, and also very similar to most (all?) other social media.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

All very similar, and also very similar to most (all?) other social media.

TVF doesn’t have your clear name, DOB, phone number, address book, biometrical data, likes, and location data, and those of your friends and their friends. TVF also doesn’t have the technology and resources to collect and use such data. TVF doesn’t even have an app. 
 

It’s really a lame comparison. 
 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

TVF doesn’t have your clear name, DOB, phone number, address book, biometrical data, likes, and location data, and those of your friends and their friends

Neither does Facebook unless I choose to give it to them.

 

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

TVF also doesn’t have the technology and resources to collect and use such data.

Does Facebook, unless I choose to give it to them?

 

10 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

TVF doesn’t even have an app. 

So? 

 

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It’s really a lame comparison.

No, for the reasons previously stated.

 

But as already said; anyone who doesn't trust Facebook, or another social media doesn't have to join. Membership is not compulsory!

 

Anyone whose already joined and wants to leave is free to do so.

 

Anyone who is paranoid enough to believe that Facebook can somehow collect information about them that they haven't volunteered should leave and change that information.

 

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Anything ever posted by a member here is still in the archives.

 

Unless things have been changed dramatically since I was a Mod, membership of TVF can never end. Members can't resign, just stop posting and, although they can't post, banned members also remain on the active members list!

 

Our details are also used to tailor the ads we see here.

 

Non members can see what we post, though they cannot see who we are. Members can only see what we choose to put in our profiles.

 

Any Facebook member can see any other member's profile; but, like TVF, only whatever details that member chose to put. I have had friend requests from people I don't know, and on checking their profiles the only personal information publicly available in their about info is their user name.

 

All very similar, and also very similar to most (all?) other social media.

But we are anonymous here. I dont see anyone posting personal details.

 

the difference for fb is that the public may be restricted to see your details and pics, fb isnt. They can use it as they want.

 

thaivisa does not have our personal pics to use.

[wadman]

22 minutes ago, Sujo said:

But we are anonymous here. I dont see anyone posting personal details.

 

the difference for fb is that the public may be restricted to see your details and pics, fb isnt. They can use it as they want.

 

thaivisa does not have our personal pics to use.

I have a Facebook account.  But it's a cery barebones account.  I have never entered personal information on it, so Facebook doesn't have it.  You don't want people to see your personal info on Facebook, don't post it.  Your choice.  It really is that simple.

[wadman]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:40 AM, simple1 said:

Facebook and other multinationals endeavour to establish business models specifically for tax avoidance which then have to be expensively challenged in the Courts at taxpayer cost; there are numerous examples where very onerous fines have been applied. There is no equivalency to the general public tax minimisation opportunities which have already been legislated.

 

An example in Australia for legislation to address multinational corporations tax avoidance efforts:

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/bd/bd1516a/16bd045

 

Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.  Facebook (and other companies) uses loopholes to minimize their taxes.  Don't like it?  Close those loopholes!  Again, unrelated stuff.

[Ventenio]

Facebook, Google, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, whatever....

 

1 zillion

 

All consumers who think they will "win"....

 

zero

 

Even if every company goes under....there will be 100 zillion more and the sheep will flock

[Scott]

A comment on moderation has been removed.  

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Neither does Facebook unless I choose to give it to them.

No, you are wrong here: 

1) At least your clear name is mandatorily required to join Facebook. 
2) And even for the other data,...

2a) you would not only have to make sure to use Facebook in a plain web browser on a device where no Facebook app, Facebook messenger, WhatsApp, and Instagram are installed, ideally even on a completely separate device that has a completely separate browser going through something like TOR or at least a VPN; 

2b) you would also have to make sure that no other person, at least or especially not your friends have WhatsApp etc. installed or share something about you through other means. 
 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

But as already said; anyone who doesn't trust Facebook, or another social media doesn't have to join. Membership is not compulsory!

Even that is not true. The moment someone else on this planet installs WhatsApp on their phone, for example, their address book gets uploaded and Facebook automatically creates an account for you if you are in that address book and don’t have an account yet. That’s how you get all those creepily accurate “Don’t you know this person” suggestions. 
 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Anyone whose already joined and wants to leave is free to do so.

I doubt Facebook deletes your data permanently, and prevents what I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Maybe if you’re living in the EU, but even there I wouldn’t be too sure. 
 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Anyone who is paranoid enough to believe that Facebook can somehow collect information about them that they haven't volunteered should leave and change that information.

See above. Some of that information is out of your control as it is on other people’s devices and shared from there. And even for your own devices you would have to go to great lengths to prevent any leaks, something that 99.9% of users aren’t capable of. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, wadman said:

I have a Facebook account.  But it's a cery barebones account.  I have never entered personal information on it, so Facebook doesn't have it. 

How can you be so sure about that? 
 

1 hour ago, wadman said:

You don't want people to see your personal info on Facebook, don't post it.  Your choice.  It really is that simple.

No, you are wrong. 

[wadman]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How can you be so sure about that? 
 

No, you are wrong. 

 

No, I am not wrong.  I only filled in the initial of my last name.  There are no photos of me on my Facebook page.  Or any other personal information. 

 

I use my Facebook account info to sign into messenger.  So once again, no personal info.

 

How can I be sure?  I just did a Google search on my Facebook account name, nothing (about me) came up.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

But we are anonymous here. I dont see anyone posting personal details.

No one has to post their personal details on Facebook.

 

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

the difference for fb is that the public may be restricted to see your details and pics, fb isnt. They can use it as they want.

How do they use a member's personal details as they want? I certainly have not suffered any increase in spam, scammers etc. since I joined.

 

Whatever they do with your details, it's only details that you give them. Don't want your details used; don't give them any; simple.

 

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

thaivisa does not have our personal pics to use.

Facebook only has your pics if you choose to post them.

 

How do you think Facebook are using people's personal pictures and for what purpose?

[7by7]

50 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No, you are wrong here: 

1) At least your clear name is mandatorily required to join Facebook. 
2) And even for the other data,...

2a) you would not only have to make sure to use Facebook in a plain web browser on a device where no Facebook app, Facebook messenger, WhatsApp, and Instagram are installed, ideally even on a completely separate device that has a completely separate browser going through something like TOR or at least a VPN; 

2b) you would also have to make sure that no other person, at least or especially not your friends have WhatsApp etc. installed or share something about you through other means. 
 

Even that is not true. The moment someone else on this planet installs WhatsApp on their phone, for example, their address book gets uploaded and Facebook automatically creates an account for you if you are in that address book and don’t have an account yet. That’s how you get all those creepily accurate “Don’t you know this person” suggestions. 
 

I doubt Facebook deletes your data permanently, and prevents what I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Maybe if you’re living in the EU, but even there I wouldn’t be too sure. 
 

See above. Some of that information is out of your control as it is on other people’s devices and shared from there. And even for your own devices you would have to go to great lengths to prevent any leaks, something that 99.9% of users aren’t capable of. 

 

1) So what; doesn't identify me.  I entered my full name into Google and got over 53 million results. The short name I used for Facebook got over 250 million results!

 

As for the rest; you are basically saying one should not use any social media, Line, WhatsApp etc. at all! And make sure none of my friends are.

 

Should I make myself a tinfoil hat while I'm at it?

 

 

 

[simple1]

8 hours ago, wadman said:

 

Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.  Facebook (and other companies) uses loopholes to minimize their taxes.  Don't like it?  Close those loopholes!  Again, unrelated stuff.

I was replying to a member's observation - if you consider a post Off Topic use the report function

[simple1]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

How do they use a member's personal details as they want

 

As an example Facebook Australia are currently being sued by Oz government for hundreds of millions of dollars for breach of privacy.

 

https://www.oaic.gov.au/updates/news-and-media/commissioner-launches-federal-court-action-against-facebook/