Deep Cycle Battery YUASA EB-130AH 12V130AH

[Opossum]

 

Hi

 

anyone have already made experience with Deep Cycle Battery YUASA EB-130AH 12V130AH e.g. regarding maintenance and duration?

 

Thx

[Crossy]

What's your application? You may find it more economical to go LiFePO4 in the long run.

 

Yuasa are a well respected brand so you will certainly get what you pay for.

 

[Opossum]

I was thinking about something cheaper solution than lithium, because I strongly believe, that technology in batteries will change dramatically based on the huge demand for them and in a few years maybe, I will reconsider to replace the Yuasas. 4 Yuasas for the aircon during the night instead feeding power back to the grid and the rest from the grid. It's an idea and maybe more of prototyping and gaining experience than saving money.

[Crossy]

How much can you get the Yuasa's for?

 

48V x 100Ah LiFePO4 (equivalent to about 200Ah lead-acid) 25k Baht on Lazada (including a BMS), even cheaper if you go direct to China.

 

Treat them reasonably gently (80% discharge, no more than 100A) and they will last pretty much forever.

 

[BritManToo]

56 minutes ago, Crossy said:

How much can you get the Yuasa's for?

5,800bht on the internet.

[Muhendis]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:42 PM, BritManToo said:

5,800bht on the internet.

That's not cheap but the quality will be good. Hanging fire on the LiFePO4's is a good idea at the moment because there is a new model in the works called a solid state lithium battery. They are a few years off at the moment but will offer some significant advantages over the current technology. 

https://www.samsungsdi.com/column/technology/detail/56462.html?listType=gallery

[Monkol]

We are using 1 pair of the Yuasa ones in an array of 3 pairs,
they are working fine for the last 4 years in a small offgrid system.
4x330W panels, 3x2x130Ah in 24V configuration batteries are powering 2 houses with lights, 1 fridge, etc, no Aircon though.
The batteries are of course in constant need of refilling.

Our second system, built 2 years ago, is using DeepGel batteries sold by ENGINEO in Chiang Mai, with 120Ah they are almost the same price as the Yuasa ones and maintenance-free.
According to ENGINEO they are the first Thai-produced Gel batteries...
Seems to be running fine too.

[Opossum]

LiFePO4s are that cheap? Well, I would like go for them but don't don't know if contractors can handle them...I myself have very limited Know-How about electronics and electricity is nothing I really want to play with when it comes to high voltage...

 

[Crossy]

11 hours ago, Opossum said:

LiFePO4s are that cheap? Well, I would like go for them but don't don't know if contractors can handle them...I myself have very limited Know-How about electronics and electricity is nothing I really want to play with when it comes to high voltage...

 

If you get a ready-built pack with a BMS (Battery Management System) built in they're no more difficult to handle than lead-acid. The charging arrangements are slightly different but a modern charge controller should have the ability to be set up for LiFePO4.

 

Personally, if I had a system working with lead acid and the batteries were still satisfactory I'd leave them alone until they failed or lost too much capacity to be usable. Then the replacement units would be LiFePO4 (or a better technology if one had come along and was price competetive). If building a new system I would go directly to LiFePO4 for the lack of maintenance and longer service life.

[kiteman9]

     Keeping your batteries in good shape requires equalizing. Equalizing lead acid batteries is a process designed to de-sulphate the battery plates by carrying out a controlled overcharge. Battery plates tend to acquire a sulphate coating over time which then hinders the chemical action between the electrolyte and the plate.  By equalizing the battery in this controlled overcharge the outer layer of the plate, including the sulphate coating, is blown off, thereby rejuvenating the battery and allowing all the surface area of the plates to interact with the electrolyte. It also causes the electrolyte to bubble and in wet cell batteries this mixes up the acid and distributes it evenly throughout the cell. Battery equalization should be carried out at least 2 or 3 times a year.

[Opossum]

I read somewhere, that deep cylce batteries should be drained to 50% everyday otherwise their lifespan will be shortened - is that true?  Maybe I just mixed up a few things .

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Opossum said:

I read somewhere, that deep cylce batteries should be drained to 50% everyday otherwise their lifespan will be shortened - is that true?  Maybe I just mixed up a few things .

 

Not something I've heard, maybe you misunderstood.

 

Lead-acid batteries really don't like being discharged, the more deeply you discharge them the shorter their life. 50% is a good limit for deep-discharge batteries to get decent life and a decent level of energy.

 

Some battery chemistries, notably NiCd, develop "memory" if not discharged deeply enough on a regular basis, maybe that's what you heard.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

On a sheer cost to benefit ratio, SLAs are still hard to beat, and the straightforward charge profile has been easy to understand for a century and can be done with minimal electronics. They're also far, far more tolerant than Lithium in float charge applications. I'll only use newer chemistries in specialist applications, notably where heat is as issue...

 

What excites me these days are super capacitors because they last for decades, are bomb proof, and can be charged in seconds. I started deploying them in short runtime applications where replacing SLAs every five years became an annoyance.

 

 

 

 

[tracker]

5 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

What excites me these days are super capacitors because they last for decades and are bomb proof. I started deploying them in short runtime applications where replacing SLAs every five years became an annoyance.

 

What about supercapacitors in combination with those batteries? As an aircon (motor) starts it always draws a huge current, and as soon as it runs stable, it goes back to lower values. So using batteries and SCaps you might save on batteries. This idea might also work on solar panels + supercaps. (just brainstorming here...)

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Indeed. I use just such a hybrid arrangement where changeover relays break the power for a split second. In this situation, even a tiny super capacitor in a 'hold up' role can put out a massive current in short durations to keep the powered device running. I've found this characteristic extremely useful to keep servers and L2 switches running during power blinks.

 

 

 

 

[tracker]

How about running an aircon purely on solar and supercapacitors? Since the heat is during daytime. And the solar panels can be reduced if the supercaps take the start-current (for the compressor kick-in). At sundown, your house, and walls are cool. ready to open the windows for the cooler night-air.

[Opossum]

As far as I remember, Tesla bought a few years ago a company, which is specialized in Supercaps to implement this in his cars. Once the "proof of concept" is done by Tesla all other companies will do the same and this will be breaken-down to aircons and smaller devices.

[Opossum]

Hi

 

maybe someone can help me figuring the maximum save discharge current of this battery without damaging the battery. Attached the specifications. Is there a simple thumb rule for it?

 

Thx

EB130 (Yuasa).pdf

[Crossy]

If you want the full 130Ah then the C/20 rate would be 6.5A. Discharge at the C/5 rate of 20A and you're down to 100Ah.

 

As to the maximum safe discharge current, I'd limit it to the 1C rate of 130A or so but your available capacity will be waaaay down.

[Opossum]

On 9/16/2021 at 8:41 AM, Crossy said:

If you want the full 130Ah then the C/20 rate would be 6.5A. Discharge at the C/5 rate of 20A and you're down to 100Ah.

 

As to the maximum safe discharge current, I'd limit it to the 1C rate of 130A or so but your available capacity will be waaaay down.

Just great Crossy! with your help and some additional reasearch on the web I managed to read the specs. and just learnt how important the c-rate curve for the corresponding battery is and exactly this is the most important part of the specs. The rest is more or less just blabla...