Thailand suffers sharp fall in rankings of best countries for retirement

[agudbuk]

For retirement by UK nationals Thailand like most other Asian countries has the problem of UK state pensions being frozen.. No cost of living increases . So pushes Thailand further down the list for British pensioners.

Countries UK nationals can move to and get pension increases

In Europe economic area

• Austria
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Croatia
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Italy
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithuania
• Luxembourg
• Malta
• Netherlands
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden

Outside Europe economic area

• Barbados
• Bermuda
• Bosnia-Herzegovina
• Gibraltar
• Guernsey
• the Isle of Man
• Israel
• Jamaica
• Jersey
• Kosovo
• Mauritius
• Montenegro
• North Macedonia
• the Philippines
• Serbia
• Turkey
• USA

 

[dbrenn]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

A lot of expats discuss any number of things they are not involved in. Being involved in a discussion about something is not the same as being involved  in something.  From what I've seen, it seems to be the same people regurgitating the same tired rhetoric over and over again.

In any event, I doubt very much that the number of people discussing Thai politics (other than double pricing, visa issues and corruption) is significant. 

Regardless, perception of freedom is important to the happiness of some. If people feel that the country they're living in isn't free, then it will slip down the rankings of desirable places to live. In saying that Thailand was less free, I was suggesting it as a possible contributing factor to the decline in Thailand's popularity, this being the topic of this thread. 

Whether or not you can actively participate in politics makes you no less immersed in the effects that politicians and their decisions have on society. All the ranting that we see throughout this forum is clear evidence of that. Most people feel affected by politics, because of the effect it has on their surroundings. You might be an exception, of course, and good for you if that's the case. 

[dbrenn]

10 minutes ago, agudbuk said:

For retirement by UK nationals Thailand like most other Asian countries has the problem of UK state pensions being frozen.. No cost of living increases . So pushes Thailand further down the list for British pensioners.

Countries UK nationals can move to and get pension increases

In Europe economic area

• Austria
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Croatia
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Italy
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithuania
• Luxembourg
• Malta
• Netherlands
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden

Outside Europe economic area

• Barbados
• Bermuda
• Bosnia-Herzegovina
• Gibraltar
• Guernsey
• the Isle of Man
• Israel
• Jamaica
• Jersey
• Kosovo
• Mauritius
• Montenegro
• North Macedonia
• the Philippines
• Serbia
• Turkey
• USA

 

It's true that Thailand has become much more expensive in recent years. Not giving pensioners yearly increases because they live in Thailand instead of the Philippines is unfair to say the least, especially for those who have paid in all their lives. 

[dcnx]

13 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

and I have no difficulty with my visa

No one does until the day they do. 
 

If you haven’t figured that out by now, you’re probably in for a rude awakening one of these days.

[dcnx]

On 3/12/2021 at 9:33 PM, Lacessit said:

That was not the case when I was attempting to get a tourist visa for my Thai GF to visit Australia. Finished up having to use an immigration lawyer.

Trying to get a South East Asian into developed countries is difficult because of their history of what what happens when they get in those counties. 
 

If your GF was from say Germany or Iceland, it wouldn’t have been a problem.

 

The region built its reputation long ago and now all of the residents in the region who are not wealthy, are not studying or working abroad (legally), have a difficult time with immigration.

In your case, this is on Thais and Thailand, not Australia, who is trying to prevent women (or men) from entering and working illegally as hookers or whatever else they get involved in. So there are hoops to jump through for obvious reasons.

I had zero problems during my brief stay in Australia (stayed for 3 years). Then again, I’m not from a country that exports prostitutes at scale. 
 

This is in no way suggesting your GF us a prostitute or would do anything illegal, but the difficulty imposed on her was because so many before her did exactly that.

 

 

 

[HOAX]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:51 PM, gearbox said:

Useless ranking by useless rag. Cambodia scores almost as high as France in health, and Portugal scores 30 points higher for climate than Italy, although they are quite close and at the same latitude. And where is the crime score?

 

How many Aussies retired in Mexico? Probably less than five.

Well, maybe its because France is infamous for their healthcare issues.

While I think Portugal has better climate than Italy, its not by 30 points. 5-10 perhaps.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Regardless, perception of freedom is important to the happiness of some. If people feel that the country they're living in isn't free, then it will slip down the rankings of desirable places to live. In saying that Thailand was less free, I was suggesting it as a possible contributing factor to the decline in Thailand's popularity, this being the topic of this thread. 

Whether or not you can actively participate in politics makes you no less immersed in the effects that politicians and their decisions have on society. All the ranting that we see throughout this forum is clear evidence of that. Most people feel affected by politics, because of the effect it has on their surroundings. You might be an exception, of course, and good for you if that's the case. 

 

It does not seem to me to me that the limits of political freedom have changed significantly in recent years. I've been here over twenty years and it seems to me like not much has. When I look at Thailand, I think the people are becoming more free, but when I look at the US feel people are becoming less free. I don't know what specific laws (aside from visa restrictions) have been changed or implemented to further restrict political freedoms

I have absolutely no faith in the rankings in the article. The "researchers" are part of a business and what they write means no more to me that an article in "Car and Driver" comparing automobiles. That said, I do believe Thailand is becoming less desirable for many expat retirees, but I see the primary issues being rising costs, enforcement of visa financial requirements and competition from other developing countries. None of these are necessarily  bad things.

 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

No one does until the day they do. 
 

If you haven’t figured that out by now, you’re probably in for a rude awakening one of these days.

Yes, no doubt next year (my twenty-second year here) will be the year I am rudely awakened.

[Enzian]

The "enforcement of visa financial requirements" would be a good thing if it were applied universally and equitably, but it is not. The option of using an agent, and everything that goes with that option, means there is nothing in the assumption of law in this country which can be trusted. I wish that were not the case, and I wish they had kept the affidavit system for US citizens. I'm sorry if I've been bringing up this issue too often, but I think it is that important.

[dbrenn]

35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

It does not seem to me to me that the limits of political freedom have changed significantly in recent years. I've been here over twenty years and it seems to me like not much has. When I look at Thailand, I think the people are becoming more free, but when I look at the US feel people are becoming less free. I don't know what specific laws (aside from visa restrictions) have been changed or implemented to further restrict political freedoms

I have absolutely no faith in the rankings in the article. The "researchers" are part of a business and what they write means no more to me that an article in "Car and Driver" comparing automobiles. That said, I do believe Thailand is becoming less desirable for many expat retirees, but I see the primary issues being rising costs, enforcement of visa financial requirements and competition from other developing countries. None of these are necessarily  bad things.

 

I arrived in 1989, and in my view Thailand was much more relaxed, cheaper and more fun. It's still a great place, but overregulation is creeping in. How much you notice change depends on your personal circumstances, your expectations and how you live your life.

To be fair, loss of freedoms isn't peculiar to Thailand - technology enabled overregulation is on the increase everywhere. 

The rankings are, as you say, to be taken with a large pinch of salt. But your view that there hasn't been much change is one that most wouldn't share. 

[dbrenn]

Just now, dbrenn said:

I arrived in 1989, and in my view Thailand was much more relaxed, cheaper and more fun. It's still a great place, but overregulation and curtailment of freedom is creeping in. How much you notice change depends on your personal circumstances, your expectations and how you live your life.

To be fair, loss of freedoms isn't peculiar to Thailand - technology enabled overregulation is on the increase everywhere. 

The rankings are, as you say, to be taken with a large pinch of salt. But your view that there hasn't been much change is one that most wouldn't share. 

 

[gearbox]

7 hours ago, HOAX said:

Well, maybe its because France is infamous for their healthcare issues.

While I think Portugal has better climate than Italy, its not by 30 points. 5-10 perhaps.

Have you been to Cambodia? Have you seen a Cambodian hospital?

Edited March 14, 2021 by gearbox

[gearbox]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:10 AM, dcnx said:

I don’t know, but a quick google search says there are 1.5 million Americans living in Mexico.

Hence the article's heading should be "Thailand suffers sharp fall in rankings of best countries for retirement for Americans"

If you read a German magazine discussing ranking of countries for German retirees I doubt many of the countries in this list would be included at all.

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Hence the article's heading should be "Thailand suffers sharp fall in rankings of best countries for retirement for Americans"

If you read a German magazine discussing ranking of countries for German retirees I doubt many of the countries in this list would be included at all.

Canadians too.

[GinBoy2]

The basic problem with all these stupid rankings is that it's all highly subjective.

None of us are the same, we want different things, and that in itself changes over time.

Then there are economics, how much money do you have?

And in many cases, how many compromises are you willing to make in whatever location based on your income?

In most of SE Asia, and let's be honest, your average married retiree couple doesn't make it their retirement destination. Its predominately single, aka divorced men, that make it the retirement destination of choice.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that equation! 

[shdmn]

On 3/7/2021 at 8:10 AM, ricardofel said:

I thought I would live the rest of my life in Thailand until I saw the reality of the country. The pollution & environmental issues, corruption and the education of my young son. Had a beautiful townhouse in HuaHin, sold it and moved to ChiangMai. Bought a beautiful property and house in Saraphi and 26 rai of land in the mountains,  life was good. Decided to leave when my son was 5, Thai wife decided not to leave with us, long story. Was very fortunate to sell the land 2 weeks before we left. Bought a house in California, sold the house in Chiang Mai 7 months later. 

My son has thrived in California in all areas, top student, played all sports for 3 years and then got onto the local swim team.....5 years later and he continues practice 5 days a week. Has been a talented actor since he was 8: theater and movies. Straight A student! America has issues like the repugnant republicans, but life is clean: no pollution to deal with. Cost of living is a little higher but that's part of the trade-off. Organic products are real...not like fake organic in Thailand. So for me....life is good.....and for my son!

I'm curious about your organic comments.  Yes, certified organic is a thing you probably can't trust in Thailand grocery stores but if you go to any public market with mom and pop stands it's all pretty much organic.  Certified organic is more of a big corporation first world thing for extracting more money from consumers who buy all their stuff in big chain grocery stores.  

Edited March 14, 2021 by shdmn

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, dbrenn said:

I arrived in 1989, and in my view Thailand was much more relaxed, cheaper and more fun. It's still a great place, but overregulation is creeping in. How much you notice change depends on your personal circumstances, your expectations and how you live your life.

To be fair, loss of freedoms isn't peculiar to Thailand - technology enabled overregulation is on the increase everywhere. 

The rankings are, as you say, to be taken with a large pinch of salt. But your view that there hasn't been much change is one that most wouldn't share. 

 

When I got here Thailand seemed to be more relaxed, was absolutely cheaper and most anything is more fun at forty than sixty. 

I did not mean to imply nor is it my position that there hasn't been much change, there has. I just do not see any evidence of significant change in the freedoms we enjoy here.

You claim to speak for "most people", yet seem unable to come up with any specific examples beyond visa requirements (which have no effect on you) and a vague comment about crackdowns on political activists. 

 

[micmichd]

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

When I got here Thailand seemed to be more relaxed, was absolutely cheaper and most anything is more fun at forty than sixty. 

I did not mean to imply nor is it my position that there hasn't been much change, there has. I just do not see any evidence of significant change in the freedoms we enjoy here.

You claim to speak for "most people", yet seem unable to come up with any specific examples beyond visa requirements (which have no effect on you) and a vague comment about crackdowns on political activists. 

 

When I first came to Pattaya in 1970, it was a small fisherman's village and a jungle where they now establish the Eastern Economic Corridor, Thailand's second megalopolis. No IT, no Internet, no mobiles. And Bangkok (The "City of Angels") : flat bueldings and temples, no skyscrapers in Silom like today.  But a war in Vietnam and surrounding countries with many casualties. All this is over now. Thailand has emancipated from the West, and so have the surrounding countries aka ASEAN countries. 

All this developments of course cost money (also mine as a West German orphan in exile), but in a way it was worth it to burn all bridges to Germany. 

 

 

[newnative]

19 hours ago, dbrenn said:

It's true that Thailand has become much more expensive in recent years. Not giving pensioners yearly increases because they live in Thailand instead of the Philippines is unfair to say the least, especially for those who have paid in all their lives. 

   I agree the pension thing is unfair but totally disagree that Thailand 'has become much more expensive in recent years.'  It certainly hasn't for me.  Usually one of the biggest monthly expenses is housing and that has gone down, not up, and in some cases significantly.  We used to rent 1 bedroom condos we owned at The Base and Centric Sea and we got 25,000 and 22,000 baht a month rent for them.   You can rent at The Base now for 8000 baht a month and at Centric for 10,000 baht.  Those are list prices on Hipflat and likely you could even do better.  Other than booze, I can't think of much that's noticeably more expensive.   

[micmichd]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

   I agree the pension thing is unfair but totally disagree that Thailand 'has become much more expensive in recent years.'  It certainly hasn't for me.  Usually one of the biggest monthly expenses is housing and that has gone down, not up, and in some cases significantly.  We used to rent 1 bedroom condos we owned at The Base and Centric Sea and we got 25,000 and 22,000 baht a month rent for them.   You can rent at The Base now for 8000 baht a month and at Centric for 10,000 baht.  Those are list prices on Hipflat and likely you could even do better.  Other than booze, I can't think of much that's noticeably more expensive.   

Sure it's cheaper to rent a flat in Thailand than to invest in real estate property where you're not really the owner of the land. And now when more and more pensioners move from Thailand to surrounding countries market prices for flats (condos, apartments or whatever you call them) go down. The demand and supply principle should be nothing new for investors. 

[dbrenn]

23 minutes ago, newnative said:

   I agree the pension thing is unfair but totally disagree that Thailand 'has become much more expensive in recent years.'  It certainly hasn't for me.  Usually one of the biggest monthly expenses is housing and that has gone down, not up, and in some cases significantly.  We used to rent 1 bedroom condos we owned at The Base and Centric Sea and we got 25,000 and 22,000 baht a month rent for them.   You can rent at The Base now for 8000 baht a month and at Centric for 10,000 baht.  Those are list prices on Hipflat and likely you could even do better.  Other than booze, I can't think of much that's noticeably more expensive.   

There are notable exceptions to the rising cost of living - condos in Pattaya being one. 

Pattaya is a vile hole of a place, ruined in every conceivable way, and nobody wants to live there anymore. That's why property is so cheap there. 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

There are notable exceptions to the rising cost of living - condos in Pattaya being one. 

Pattaya is a vile hole of a place, ruined in every conceivable way, and nobody wants to live there anymore. That's why property is so cheap there. 

Our own special vile hole of a place.

Sounds like good ad copy for Neo Pattaya. 

[GinBoy2]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Our own special vile hole of a place.

Sounds like good ad copy for Neo Pattaya. 

Well Pattaya works for a certain segment of the retired farang community

I doubt you will find many retired farang couples living the high life there, but the market for Chang wife beater vests is, I'm sure as solid as ever!

[newnative]

27 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

There are notable exceptions to the rising cost of living - condos in Pattaya being one. 

Pattaya is a vile hole of a place, ruined in every conceivable way, and nobody wants to live there anymore. That's why property is so cheap there. 

     Pity you know so little about the place.  Or, maybe not a pity.  In any event. I think you'll find that housing prices have dropped in some other places with an international presence, as well.   I also live part-time in Bangkok and the same goes for there--no big price increases on anything other than booze.  Condo maintenance fees stable, gas, electric, water, food, dining out, not much difference.  

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, micmichd said:

Sure it's cheaper to rent a flat in Thailand than to invest in real estate property where you're not really the owner of the land. And now when more and more pensioners move from Thailand to surrounding countries market prices for flats (condos, apartments or whatever you call them) go down. The demand and supply principle should be nothing new for investors. 

How many expat retirees are living in Thailand? Given there are about seventy million people living in Thailand, If all of the expat retirees left, I doubt very much it will have a significant impact on the overall real-estate market. A few isolated areas? Sure. The country as a whole? I think not.

[Sydebolle]

On 3/13/2021 at 11:24 AM, Yellowtail said:

 

I've been here over twenty years and I bet I could count on my hands the number of times a Thai (not drunk) has raised their voice at me. Certainly fewer than the number of times I have raised my voice at them. 

You think people should be able to use any color ink they like. I do not. I think people should use whatever color ink is required on the form. If the form says use black ink and a form with blue ink is accepted, the next guy in line is arguing that yellow ink should be acceptable and the guy after him wants to use a pencil. That a government employee gets exasperated when someone (likely) gets rude and is demanding an explanation WHY they have to use black ink, when red ink should be perfectly acceptable does not surprise me. 

 

Could not agree more, provided „the form says to use whatever colour ink“; and in true Thai fashion is is not stipulated. It’s not this particular issue, it is the principle. Mark it clearly, in English, what you want. The entire form avalanche comes always anyhow in (arguably sometimes poor) English and Thai. Never got around why Thai is shown on a form which is exclusively used by non-Thais ......... 

[Yellowtail]

28 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Pity you know so little about the place.  Or, maybe not a pity.  In any event. I think you'll find that housing prices have dropped in some other places with an international presence, as well.   I also live part-time in Bangkok and the same goes for there--no big price increases on anything other than booze.  Condo maintenance fees stable, gas, electric, water, food, dining out, not much difference.  

Real-estate prices in Bangkok have increased significantly in the last ten years, as has groceries, consumer goods and groceries. The last year or two not so much.

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Could not agree more, provided „the form says to use whatever colour ink“; and in true Thai fashion is is not stipulated. It’s not this particular issue, it is the principle. Mark it clearly, in English, what you want. The entire form avalanche comes always anyhow in (arguably sometimes poor) English and Thai. Never got around why Thai is shown on a form which is exclusively used by non-Thais ......... g co

Okay, what form are you talking about that has so many rude immigration offices hollering at befuddled old men  about using the wrong color ink? 

Do Thai people not have to READ the forms that foreign people fill out? That may have something to do with both Thai and English being on the forms. It may be there are Burmese and Cambodians that are more familiar with Thai than English as well.

All that said, I agree the forms here are generally terrible.  

[jollyhangmon]

1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

Could not agree more, provided „the form says to use whatever colour ink“; and in true Thai fashion is is not stipulated. It’s not this particular issue, it is the principle. Mark it clearly, in English, what you want. The entire form avalanche comes always anyhow in (arguably sometimes poor) English and Thai. Never got around why Thai is shown on a form which is exclusively used by non-Thais ......... 

 

... 'cause a good part of the keystoners themselves wouldn't have half a clue what the forms are all about if there wasn't Thai on them, my educated guess ...

 

[sekmet]

On 3/7/2021 at 7:05 PM, TonBrow said:

Hell, that would apply to almost anywhere. $2,000/month will go a long way even in expensive America.

Maybe small town Iowa. 

Not most cities where rent alone might be US$2000/month.