SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

The SNP securing an hung parliament does not mean the Scots want to leave the UK, infact it is not looking good at all is it, have you stopped following the polls now they are not going your way. Polls are saying that the Scots that want seperation are in the minority and the SNP will not get as many seats as predicted, do you agree? The SNP has shot themselves in the foot but the nationalists will still carry on regardless as if nothing has happened, this scandal is not going anywhere fast rookie. As we say in Yorkshire, 'she has muckied her ticket.'

We shall see what happens come May. But IF the SNP secure a majority (even though elections for Holyrood are designed to ensure no one party does) and they have a flagship policy of having another referendum would you say it is a matter of democracy that they be allowed to have one?

I have never had an issue with fair and open polls Vogie. You have. Remember this day though when future polls show results you do not want to hear.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

It was not dragged out against its wishes because it was never in it. The United Kingdom joined and the United Kingdom voted to leave, we didn't vote by areas, towns or villages, we voted en bloc.

But talking about people dragging other people out of the UK, just look at this map of Scotland and the areas that are being dragged out by the SNP. Have you any sympathy here?

 

Have you any sympathy for the regions and indeed countries dragged out of the EU against their will?

[tebee]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

It was not dragged out against its wishes because it was never in it.

 

 

Please stop talking such rubbish.  If I had been living in Scotland 4 years ago I would have been living in the EU.

The UK joined the EU as a union of 4 nations.. not as a single state.

[bkkcanuck8]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

It was not dragged out against its wishes because it was never in it. The United Kingdom joined and the United Kingdom voted to leave, we didn't vote by areas, towns or villages, we voted en bloc.

Arguing that the people of Scotland were not in the EU because they were part of a union that was in the EU... is getting a wee bit deranged...  As with the UK, if you can join a Union - you should be able to leave it... and that decision should rest with the country (in this case Scotland) who joined the Union -- not the Union as a whole (as was with the EU and UK). 

[vogie]

9 hours ago, tebee said:

Please stop talking such rubbish.  If I had been living in Scotland 4 years ago I would have been living in the EU.

The UK joined the EU as a union of 4 nations.. not as a single state.

Not saying what you want to hear is not talking rubbish! I think we may have a slight comprehension problem here tebee. Scotland joined the EU because it belonged to the United Kingdom, and saying that it probably had as much input as Milton Keynes or Henley on Thames. So I repeat that Scotland was never taken out of the EU because it was never in it per se. The decision to leave was made by the whole of the UK because that is name we use now.

If Scotland had been successful in their quest for independence in 2014 there is a chance that they may have had to leave the EU, whichever way you care to look at it, Scotland would have had to negotiate their terms to join the EU from either within or from outside the EU, and that as we all know was not guarenteed. The reason being is that it was the UK that was the member and not Scotland.

I know that mentioning the UK (England) gets some peoples backs up on here because we voted the 'wrong way' in the 2016 EU referendum and I strongly suspect you may fall into that catagory tebee judging by your past posts, your living in France may strongly sway your views to the disintergration of the UK, I don't know, but what I do know is that it gets pretty damn tedious all the time reading posters who would like the UK to break up because we left the EU. It is done and dusted now, you don't like it, but democracy is not about getting the result you want, it is about the losers consenting and respecting that democratic decision.

 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not saying what you want to hear is not talking rubbish! I think we may have a slight comprehension problem here tebee. Scotland joined the EU because it belonged to the United Kingdom, and saying that it probably had as much input as Milton Keynes or Henley on Thames. So I repeat that Scotland was never taken out of the EU because it was never in it per se. The decision to leave was made by the whole of the UK because that is name we use now.

If Scotland had been successful in their quest for independence in 2014 there is a chance that they may have had to leave the EU, whichever way you care to look at it, Scotland would have had to negotiate their terms to join the EU from either within or from outside the EU, and that as we all know was not guarenteed. The reason being is that it was the UK that was the member and not Scotland.

I know that mentioning the UK (England) gets some peoples backs up on here because we voted the 'wrong way' in the 2016 EU referendum and I strongly suspect you may fall into that catagory tebee judging by your past posts, your living in France may strongly sway your views to the disintergration of the UK, I don't know, but what I do know is that it gets pretty damn tedious all the time reading posters who would like the UK to break up because we left the EU. It is done and dusted now, you don't like it, but democracy is not about getting the result you want, it is about the losers consenting and respecting that democratic decision.

 

But what you consistently fail to explain is how the democratic decision is not being respected? Scotland continues to be in the UK and continues to suffer the negative consequences of the results of both the 2014 and 2016 referenda.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that freedom of speech and the right to protest or the right to assembly should not be afforded to those who do not agree with your views. Is that what you are saying?

[vogie]

31 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But what you consistently fail to explain is how the democratic decision is not being respected? Scotland continues to be in the UK and continues to suffer the negative consequences of the results of both the 2014 and 2016 referenda.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that freedom of speech and the right to protest or the right to assembly should not be afforded to those who do not agree with your views. Is that what you are saying?

The democratic decision is far from being respected, having to go along with something and respecting that democratic decision are two entirely different things.

If I were a Scots Nat at the moment I would be keeping quiet about "freedom of speech" thanks to Humza Yousafs hate crime bill, didn't it cost Joanna Cherry her place on the front benches for speaking out on it, is that free speech? I don't think that being her friend of Alex Salmond and her being vocal about things Humza may lock me up for talking about it.

You must be so proud of the SNPs achievements these 14 years they have been in power, but who are going to blame........ English Westminster.

And I might suggest that most of the Scots agree with my views much to the consternation of the SNP.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

The democratic decision is far from being respected, having to go along with something and respecting that democratic decision are two entirely different things.

If I were a Scots Nat at the moment I would be keeping quiet about "freedom of speech" thanks to Humza Yousafs hate crime bill, didn't it cost Joanna Cherry her place on the front benches for speaking out on it, is that free speech? I don't think that being her friend of Alex Salmond and her being vocal about things Humza may lock me up for talking about it.

You must be so proud of the SNPs achievements these 14 years they have been in power, but who are going to blame........ English Westminster.

And I might suggest that most of the Scots agree with my views much to the consternation of the SNP.

Please stop with the deflection and actually answer my question with something of substance, not simply meaningless waffle. In what way is the referendum result not being respected?

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Please stop with the deflection and actually answer my question with something of substance, not simply meaningless waffle. In what way is the referendum result not being respected?

I have answered it, you again come out with your insults, self control not your strong point RR, bye bye. 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I have answered it, you again come out with your insults, self control not your strong point RR, bye bye. 

Such a pity that the ROFL emoji is no longer working. When the going gets tough, Vogie gets going. 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Such a pity that the ROFL emoji is no longer working. When the going gets tough, Vogie gets going. 

I don't respond to insults and that is why Scottish and indeed all Nationalism must be eradicated from our Island Nation, it is turning our citizens into people that hate others for not sharing their destructive nature.

[RuamRudy]

New COMRES polling data for May's election:

Independence supporting parties set for 74 seats 

Unionists projected to win 55 seats

ComRes, 5th-10th of March 2021

 

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

I don't respond to insults and that is why Scottish and indeed all Nationalism must be eradicated from our Island Nation, it is turning our citizens into people that hate others for not sharing their destructive nature.

What insult? You have made this claim before but been unable to back it up then. Can you do it now? Or do you deem this question also to be insulting?

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

New COMRES polling data for May's election:

Independence supporting parties set for 74 seats 

Unionists projected to win 55 seats

ComRes, 5th-10th of March 2021

 

Probably from the same poll.

The survey, conducted for The Scotsman by Savanta ComRes, found that 45% of respondents said they would vote Yes if the vote was held tomorrow, while 47% said they would vote No and 8% said they did not know.

When unsure voters were excluded, 51% said they would vote in favour of the union while 49% would vote for independence.

 

The poll in The Scotsman indicated the SNP is no longer on course for a majority in Holryood elections in May.

It found that the SNP would return 64 MSPs, missing out on a majority by one seat.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/scottish-independence-boris-johnson-to-assert-indyref2-will-not-be-granted-even-if-snp-win-election-in-may-3163419

[Bluespunk]

16 hours ago, vogie said:

Only in your eyes tebee, we joined as the UK, we left as the UK.

Not only in tebee's eyes, I assure you.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Bluespunk

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't respond to insults and that is why Scottish and indeed all Nationalism must be eradicated from our Island Nation, it is turning our citizens into people that hate others for not sharing their destructive nature.

Hate? Your entire post is laying bare the hate that is consuming you. You literally want to eradicate those who do not share your opinion.

The only hate on display is your hatred of democracy and freedom of speech. Your views are genuinely worrying, and given the overt authoritarianism of the current Westminster government, it bodes very ominously for the future of the right to self expression that its supporters share the same intolerance. 

Yesterday's disgusting treatment of peaceful women protesting in London is just the tip of the iceberg. Brexit enabled a right wing neo fascist government and so many seem to be walking in lockstep with them. That is truly frightening. 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Probably from the same poll.

The survey, conducted for The Scotsman by Savanta ComRes, found that 45% of respondents said they would vote Yes if the vote was held tomorrow, while 47% said they would vote No and 8% said they did not know.

When unsure voters were excluded, 51% said they would vote in favour of the union while 49% would vote for independence.

 

The poll in The Scotsman indicated the SNP is no longer on course for a majority in Holryood elections in May.

It found that the SNP would return 64 MSPs, missing out on a majority by one seat.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/scottish-independence-boris-johnson-to-assert-indyref2-will-not-be-granted-even-if-snp-win-election-in-may-3163419

And now my regular reminder that independence is not the SNP and the SNP is not independence. 

74 independence supporting MSPs is a majority in a parliament rigged to prevent any one party getting a majority. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Hate? Your entire post is laying bare the hate that is consuming you. You literally want to eradicate those who do not share your opinion.

The only hate on display is your hatred of democracy and freedom of speech. Your views are genuinely worrying, and given the overt authoritarianism of the current Westminster government, it bodes very ominously for the future of the right to self expression that its supporters share the same intolerance. 

Yesterday's disgusting treatment of peaceful women protesting in London is just the tip of the iceberg. Brexit enabled a right wing neo fascist government and so many seem to be walking in lockstep with them. That is truly frightening. 

Deflect as much as you like, one as only to read some Scots Nats posts to realise the direction the discord is travelling.

Fascist government , would that be the same government that believes in democracy.????????????

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And now my regular reminder that independence is not the SNP and the SNP is not independence. 

74 independence supporting MSPs is a majority in a parliament rigged to prevent any one party getting a majority. 

If the SNP are not independence, what is their purpose? ????????????

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

If the SNP are not independence, what is their purpose? ????????????

Their objective is to secure independence. But they do not own the franchise nor do they have the monopoly on the goal. The current situation in Holyrood is that a majority of MSPs come from parties which explicitly campaign to achieve independence. It is very likely that that situation will prevail after May. You see, it really isn't that hard a concept to grasp - independence transcends any one party.

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I don't respond to insults and that is why Scottish and indeed all Nationalism must be eradicated from our Island Nation, it is turning our citizens into people that hate others for not sharing their destructive nature.

Perfect. Then let them vote.

[RuamRudy]

The CEO of trade body, Scotland Food & Drink discusses the devastating impact that Brexit has had on Scotland's food and drink exporters. 

Brexit reaction: ‘grim’ food and drink export statistics show EU trade collapse

“The financial damage to our seafood industry is particularly stark. A fall of over 80% in what is the UK’s biggest food export has brought a crisis to a sector reeling from the worst trading year in memory. 

“I do expect to see an uplift in the February and March figures, but the trade barriers now created are real and costly. The so-called teething problems are still with us and have cost the industry tens of millions so far. 

 

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The CEO of trade body, Scotland Food & Drink discusses the devastating impact that Brexit has had on Scotland's food and drink exporters. 

Brexit reaction: ‘grim’ food and drink export statistics show EU trade collapse

“The financial damage to our seafood industry is particularly stark. A fall of over 80% in what is the UK’s biggest food export has brought a crisis to a sector reeling from the worst trading year in memory. 

“I do expect to see an uplift in the February and March figures, but the trade barriers now created are real and costly. The so-called teething problems are still with us and have cost the industry tens of millions so far. 

 

the signs are there,  it starting  to crumble but Brexiters will not admit it

UK-EU exports fell by over 40% in January 2021

https://smallbusiness.co.uk/uk-eu-exports-fell-by-over-40-in-january-2021-2552323/

 

 

[agudbuk]

Can the English have a referendum to see if they want to eject Scotland from the union?  

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, agudbuk said:

Can the English have a referendum to see if they want to eject Scotland from the union?  

I am not sure that the English (your words, not mine) own the union - rather, they are part of it. The sensible thing would be for them to seek to remove themselves from it, because, as I am sure you know, the UK consists of partners other than either England or Scotland. Do you propose to ignore their wishes? 

[agudbuk]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not sure that the English (your words, not mine) own the union - rather, they are part of it. The sensible thing would be for them to seek to remove themselves from it, because, as I am sure you know, the UK consists of partners other than either England or Scotland. Do you propose to ignore their wishes? 

OK lets make it a vote for Independence and  home rule for England.  

Edited March 14, 2021 by agudbuk
spelyn eror

[Bluespunk]

22 minutes ago, agudbuk said:

OK lets make it a vote for Independence and  home rule for England.  

Go for it.

[Rookiescot]

59 minutes ago, agudbuk said:

Can the English have a referendum to see if they want to eject Scotland from the union?  

Oh is someone feeling left out because the conversation is not focused on England?

Just in case your question was genuine. No. The English cant have a vote to eject Scotland. It could theoretically have a vote to eject itself.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

I don't respond to insults and that is why Scottish and indeed all Nationalism must be eradicated from our Island Nation, it is turning our citizens into people that hate others for not sharing their destructive nature.

Bit late trying to get nationalism eradicated. Brexit is already done.

[Rimmer]

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