Thai ATM/Debit Card frequently rejected

[PDP11]

I wonder if you all in TV Land have figured out something I've tried to unsuccessfully solve. When I try to pay for something "small" (< ~2,000 baht) with my Bangkok Bank ATM/Debit Card (Be 1st), I get rejected about 1/3 of the time. The symptom is the store's payment terminal indicates "incorrect PIN" or "rejected". The store tells me I don't know my PIN and - as you would expect - Bangkok Bank tells me it's the fault of the retail outlet or the payment network. I tend to believe the bank as they show no attempt was ever made to make a charge.

 

So, what have you all done? My bank card indicates Mastercard so I tell them to run it as a Mastercard. That never works as it defaults back to a debit transaction. I usually give up and use my USA-based Mastercard which always works but carries the exchange rate premium (at least I'm free of any specific "foreign transaction fees").

 

What I have noticed is many retail outlets have several payment terminals behind the counter. They try one and it is rejected. Then they try the next one and eventually get an approval. So, has anyone figured out the decoder ring as to which terminal goes with which payment network ... and which payment network supports which bank? Sadly, you can't go by the bank name on the terminal as I've had my Bangkok Bank card rejected by terminal the says Bangkok Bank and have it subsequently work in a K-Bank terminal. I suspect the stickers mean nothing as the merchant simply buys the terminals used and program them to whichever payment network they want.

 

A final potential clue is that Bangkok Bank ATM/debit cards seem to be part of the problem as my wife's SCB ATM/debit card is rarely rejected. But moving to SCB isn't an option as I'm here on a Non-OA visa and not a work visa.

 

It is so frustrating. I've never been in a country where foreign cards work more reliably than local cards.

[lopburi3]

I use the UnionPay (which is known for lack of acceptance) version and no issues if they use the right card reader (the one you input 6 digit Pin number).  If they try in normal reader will not work.  But I only use in Hospital settings and mostly over 2k.  Believe the key may be the type of service the merchant is paying for as also have seen one reader work and another not work from same bank but they seem to know to grab the special reader when they see UnionPay most times now.  This is also only Bangkok Bank card so they may have the MasterCard set up the same.   That is one reason normally use card at ATM to get cash and use that for most payments.

Edited March 7, 2021 by lopburi3

[dabhand]

Have similar issues with my BkkBank card (Be1st MC).

 

Have had an SCB debit card (Smart MC) for some time and never any problem. Opened a BkkBank account couple of years back and tried their debit card a couple of times with no success. Never tried to understand what the problem is as always use the SCB card.

[Kwasaki]

I use my UK credit card and normally always goes through. 

 

Rarely I find the only time it doesn't work is because the cash register operator has messed up or the garage or shops system has a problem. 

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, PDP11 said:

I wonder if you all in TV Land have figured out something I've tried to unsuccessfully solve. When I try to pay for something "small" (< ~2,000 baht) with my Bangkok Bank ATM/Debit Card (Be 1st), I get rejected about 1/3 of the time. The symptom is the store's payment terminal indicates "incorrect PIN" or "rejected". The store tells me I don't know my PIN and - as you would expect - Bangkok Bank tells me it's the fault of the retail outlet or the payment network. I tend to believe the bank as they show no attempt was ever made to make a charge.

 

So, what have you all done? My bank card indicates Mastercard so I tell them to run it as a Mastercard. That never works as it defaults back to a debit transaction. I usually give up and use my USA-based Mastercard which always works but carries the exchange rate premium (at least I'm free of any specific "foreign transaction fees").

 

What I have noticed is many retail outlets have several payment terminals behind the counter. They try one and it is rejected. Then they try the next one and eventually get an approval. So, has anyone figured out the decoder ring as to which terminal goes with which payment network ... and which payment network supports which bank? Sadly, you can't go by the bank name on the terminal as I've had my Bangkok Bank card rejected by terminal the says Bangkok Bank and have it subsequently work in a K-Bank terminal. I suspect the stickers mean nothing as the merchant simply buys the terminals used and program them to whichever payment network they want.

 

A final potential clue is that Bangkok Bank ATM/debit cards seem to be part of the problem as my wife's SCB ATM/debit card is rarely rejected. But moving to SCB isn't an option as I'm here on a Non-OA visa and not a work visa.

 

It is so frustrating. I've never been in a country where foreign cards work more reliably than local cards.

 

Sounds like a network communications problem between the merchant and local processing bank since you mention Bangkok Bank is not showing any rejected charge attempts and since you said they can get it to usually work by trying different Point of Service (POS) machines. Expect the various POS machines are using different "local processing banks" and some of these banks fail to make a good connection to Bangkok Bank on some charge attempts.  

 

By local processing banks I mean the bank the merchant is signed-up with to process their debit/credit card transactions.   That local processing bank is identified by name at the top/bottom of receipt...and can be Bangkok Bank, Kaiskorn Bank, SCB, and various other local Thai banks who provide card processing services to merchants.

 

And when you tell the merchant to process as a Mastercard that doesn't mean anything to them as Mastercard, like Visa, UnionPay, American Express, etc.,  is just the major card processing network and they handle both debit and credit cards.  A Mastercard card can be either a debit or credit card just as Visa, UniionPay, etc. 

 

Since your USA-based card is always processing  that supports my theory that the local processing bank is able to make a connection to your USA card issuing bank thru the Mastercard network whereas the local processing bank is having issuing in connecting to Bangkok Bank thru the Mastercard network.  Yeap, sounds like a network communications issue.

 

 

[Mavideol]

31 minutes ago, PDP11 said:

I wonder if you all in TV Land have figured out something I've tried to unsuccessfully solve. When I try to pay for something "small" (< ~2,000 baht) with my Bangkok Bank ATM/Debit Card (Be 1st), I get rejected about 1/3 of the time. The symptom is the store's payment terminal indicates "incorrect PIN" or "rejected". The store tells me I don't know my PIN and - as you would expect - Bangkok Bank tells me it's the fault of the retail outlet or the payment network. I tend to believe the bank as they show no attempt was ever made to make a charge.

 

So, what have you all done? My bank card indicates Mastercard so I tell them to run it as a Mastercard. That never works as it defaults back to a debit transaction. I usually give up and use my USA-based Mastercard which always works but carries the exchange rate premium (at least I'm free of any specific "foreign transaction fees").

 

What I have noticed is many retail outlets have several payment terminals behind the counter. They try one and it is rejected. Then they try the next one and eventually get an approval. So, has anyone figured out the decoder ring as to which terminal goes with which payment network ... and which payment network supports which bank? Sadly, you can't go by the bank name on the terminal as I've had my Bangkok Bank card rejected by terminal the says Bangkok Bank and have it subsequently work in a K-Bank terminal. I suspect the stickers mean nothing as the merchant simply buys the terminals used and program them to whichever payment network they want.

 

A final potential clue is that Bangkok Bank ATM/debit cards seem to be part of the problem as my wife's SCB ATM/debit card is rarely rejected. But moving to SCB isn't an option as I'm here on a Non-OA visa and not a work visa.

 

It is so frustrating. I've never been in a country where foreign cards work more reliably than local cards.

had exactly the same problem and after  +/- 6 months decided to stop using the BKK Debit Card and switched to start using their Credit Card for any payment at any store, all problems solved, bill/expenses paid every month and not having to deal with the retail store (brain damaged) people it's a peace of mind

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

so why wont you pay cash and forget about it?

cash is king, so easy and private, why the hell to pay with cards?

[toolpush]

8 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so why wont you pay cash and forget about it?

cash is king, so easy and private, why the hell to pay with cards?

Agreed. Cash is King!

[PDP11]

26 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so why wont you pay cash and forget about it?

cash is king, so easy and private, why the hell to pay with cards?

Too much hassle and risk. I regularly get turned down trying to pay with 1,000 baht notes and I don't want others to see me carrying lots of cash. I guess my USA habits run deep ????

[PDP11]

48 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

had exactly the same problem and after  +/- 6 months decided to stop using the BKK Debit Card and switched to start using their Credit Card for any payment at any store, all problems solved, bill/expenses paid every month and not having to deal with the retail store (brain damaged) people it's a peace of mind

 

Mavideol, were you able to get a BKK Bank credit card with a non-O or non-OA? Or do you have a work visa? I was told that no farang can get a credit card in Thailand without a work permit, no matter how much cash you have in the bank.

 

Heck, I can't even open a second bank account at BKK Bank without going back to the US Embassy and paying $50 USD (again) for an affidavit that says I am who I am. Apparently, that fact that you've banked with them for several years doesn't seem relevant.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, PDP11 said:

Too much hassle and risk. I regularly get turned down trying to pay with 1,000 baht notes and I don't want others to see me carrying lots of cash. I guess my USA habits run deep ????

I agree.  I hate getting behind these Cash Is King folks in a checkout line as they dig thru their wallet/pocket book to come up with the approx amount of cash, then the cashier counts it two or three times before putting it in the cash register, then the cashier counts the change two times before giving it to the customer, and then the customer does a quick count and then stuffs it back in their wallet/pocket book.

 

For me use of Credit Cards Is King...hand the cashier my  credit card...he/she insert/swipes it....takes jus a few seconds for the point of service machine to complete the payment....then hands me back my receipts...depending on the amount I may have sign a receipt first.  But all of this is like 5 times faster than the Cash is King payment procedure.   This way I get to earn Cash Back of 2% on with the no-fee credit cards I use...it greatly reduces how much cash I must transfer from the home country periodically to topup my Thai bank acct which comes with transfer fees....builds/maintained my credit worthiness...etc.   And I pay my credit card balance in full monthly.   

[Pib]

9 minutes ago, PDP11 said:

 

Mavideol, were you able to get a BKK Bank credit card with a non-O or non-OA? Or do you have a work visa? I was told that no farang can get a credit card in Thailand without a work permit, no matter how much cash you have in the bank.

 

Heck, I can't even open a second bank account at BKK Bank without going back to the US Embassy and paying $50 USD (again) for an affidavit that says I am who I am. Apparently, that fact that you've banked with them for several years doesn't seem relevant.

If you don't have a work permit you can get a "secured" credit card where you must open a locked deposit saving acct which serves as collateral.  Like opening a savings acct with 100K baht which gets you a 50K to 100K line of credit.    Getting a "secured" credit card is easy...quite a few farangs get them in Thailand...such secured cards provide no risk to the bank because they have your locked deposit acct as collateral/pay off the card balance if you decide to stop paying, skip town, etc.   

 

Example of applying for a secured card with a fixed saving acct to secure the card

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Tips-and-Insights/Cards/Apply-For-BBL-Credit-Card

Edited March 7, 2021 by Pib

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, PDP11 said:

 

Mavideol, were you able to get a BKK Bank credit card with a non-O or non-OA? Or do you have a work visa? I was told that no farang can get a credit card in Thailand without a work permit, no matter how much cash you have in the bank.

 

Heck, I can't even open a second bank account at BKK Bank without going back to the US Embassy and paying $50 USD (again) for an affidavit that says I am who I am. Apparently, that fact that you've banked with them for several years doesn't seem relevant.

I have a Non O visa and have secured Credit Card for a specific amount however in the beginning I applied on line for a Bangkok Bank credit card and they accepted my application giving me a credit limit of 25 K baht, I found it ridiculous and  complained at my local branch there was proposed to apply for a secure CC and it took 2-3 months to receive them, meaning they gave me not one but two cards, one is MC and the other a Visa.... no work permit was ever asked

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so why wont you pay cash and forget about it?

cash is king, so easy and private, why the hell to pay with cards?

I get 5% cashback in cryptocurrency. Its really added up over the last year. Cash is dead. 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

7 hours ago, PDP11 said:

A final potential clue is that Bangkok Bank ATM/debit cards seem to be part of the problem as my wife's SCB ATM/debit card is rarely rejected. But moving to SCB isn't an option as I'm here on a Non-OA visa and not a work visa.

 

I stopped using my SCB cards because I had exactly the opposite problem. My SCB card was being consistently rejected, but my Krunsgri debit card was always accepted. Actually, I just put everything on my Krungsri CREDIT card now, it appears to be automatically accepted even where there are communication problems.

 

About SCB, they appear to be having serious IT problems. If I log into my SCB account online or with the phone app, I don't get the notification that someone has logged in until several hours later. SCB have never really tried to be a retail bank, and they certainly don't even try with foreigners, I only keep the account active as a backup.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Mark1066]

On 3/7/2021 at 7:31 PM, Neeranam said:

I get 5% cashback in cryptocurrency. Its really added up over the last year. Cash is dead. 

I can't remember the last time I withdrew cash from an ATM. Over the last few years, I've hardly ever used cash. It's dirty, inconvenient and easy to steal.