Denmark, Norway and Iceland suspend AstraZeneca COVID shots after blood clot reports

[mommysboy]

Regarding blood clots there doesn't seem to be a connection at all to any vaccine.

But now there has been a report of a very serious condition called  immune thrombocytopenia among patients in Norway, which is something that has also been linked to the other vaccines, and has also occurred in the USA.  It may be linked to covid19 vaccines.  Basically, it's a dangerously low platelet count.

In the USA, they decided to go ahead. I guess the UK has also chosen this route too.

In the end it really comes down to deciding whether to vaccinate and risk perhaps 1-10 cases per million.  There's no right or wrong.

It's an uncomfortable thought but yes probably every vaccine risks endangering the life of a very small minority of healthy people imo.  It's always been the way.

 

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, Hi from France said:

21% was an estimate last December, so you'd need to update that with three more months of a big wave. 

... Then add the % vaccinated, remove the double count of those who both caught Covid-19 and were vaccinated. So less than 36% as of today. 

Herd immunity is 60-70%,depending on many factors .

 

So even if herd immunity is not yet fully operational, the UK is not very far. 

Now an epidemiologist can do much better than me.. 

Actually the latest estimates put the low end of herd immunity at 70% and the high end at 90%

'The precise threshold for herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, is unknown. But recent estimates range from 70 to 90 percent.'

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/can-we-get-to-herd-immunity-by-april-many-experts-are-skeptical

[7by7]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

<snip> Sorry (7by7), I didn't get chance to read the link you provided at the time.

Yet even though you hadn't read it, you dismissed the information contained therein!

On 3/13/2021 at 11:41 AM, KhaoYai said:

<snip> I could easily counter your link with one with an opposing view

The rest of your post is about the different approaches between the UK and EU over the approval and introduction of this particular vaccine. The EU preferring a more cautious approach. Who was right? Only time will tell.

Back to the actual topic of this thread: COVID-19: AstraZeneca defends its vaccine after more countries suspend its use over clotting concerns

Quote

A new report from the Norwegian Medicines Agency reveals serious blood clotting events in four adults who had the COVID-19 jab.

Note those countries health authorities are acting on concerns expressed by the Norwegian Medicines Agency; Norway is not an EU member.

The EU's EMA have said "There is no indication that the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine is linked to an increased risk of blood clots." (Source).

Yet you are still attempting to say the EU are using this issue as some sort of petty revenge for Brexit!

19 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

<snip> I don't think its possible to completely separate this matter from the worsening relationship between the EU and Brexit.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by 7by7
typos

[KhaoYai]

13 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Yet you are still attempting to say the EU are using this issue as some sort of petty revenge for Brexit!

No, as I said early on. EU politicians are - against the advice of their own medical authorities.

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No, as I said early on. EU politicians are - against the advice of their own medical authorities.

Wrong.

As the articles I have linked to show, the politicians in certain countries, some of whom are EU members, are ignoring the advice of the EMA: ""There is currently no indication that vaccination has caused these conditions, which are not listed as side effects with this vaccine," the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said on Thursday."

"The vaccine's benefits continue to outweigh its risks and the vaccine can continue to be administered while investigation of cases of thromboembolic events is ongoing," it added."(Source)

Instead they are acting on the advice of their own medical authorities! Advice based upon that of the Norwegian Medicines Agency.

A reminder that Norway is not an EU member.

[KhaoYai]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

A reminder that Norway is not an EU member.

'As the articles I have linked to show, the politicians in certain countries, some of whom are EU members, are ignoring the advice of the EMA: ""There is currently no indication that vaccination has caused these conditions, which are not listed as side effects with this vaccine," the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said on Thursday." '

Isn't that exactly what I said?

You know very well that its not only Norway. However, I said before, I'm not going to turn this into a Brexit circus. You've made your points and no doubt will wish to make more - I don't agree and I stand by everything I've posted but won't be commenting further on the EU/Brexit issue unless there's new statements made etc.

Edited March 15, 2021 by KhaoYai

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

<snip> Isn't that exactly what I said?

No; you said 

35 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No, as I said early on. EU politicians are - against the advice of their own medical authorities.

OK, maybe by "EU politicians" you meant politicians in EU member states; but to say that they are acting against the advice of their own medical authorities is, as I have shown, incorrect. 

13 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

<snip> You know very well that its not only Norway.

Where have I said that it is?

What I have said, and is true, is that those countries, EU members and non EU members, who have suspended use of the AstraZeneca vaccine are ignoring the EMA's, and the WHO's, advice and following Norway's lead.

Norwegian Medicines Agency notified of blood clots and bleeding in younger people after vaccination with AstraZeneca vaccine

Quote

“The NIPH has put the AstraZeneca vaccine on hold in the coronavirus immunisation programme. Now it is the Norwegian Medicines Agency's role to follow up on these suspected side effects and take the necessary measures in this serious situation,” says Geir Bukholm, Director of the Division of Infection Control and Environmental Health at the NIPH.

You choose to not agree; but these are not opinions; they are all indisputable facts.

You are only offering your opinions; opinions with nothing to back them up. Therefore I see no point in engaging with you further on this matter.

[KhaoYai]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What I have said, and is true, is that those countries, EU members and non EU members, who have suspended use of the AstraZeneca vaccine are ignoring the EMA's, and the WHO's, advice and following Norway's lead.

Jeezzzz!!! That's exactly what I'm saying.

[7by7]

18 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Jeezzzz!!! That's exactly what I'm saying.

Then why are you still blaming the EU?

51 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I don't agree and I stand by everything I've posted but won't be commenting further on the EU/Brexit issue

 

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

No, as I said early on. EU politicians are - against the advice of their own medical authorities.

You'll always find tabloids to tell you AZ is fine and there is absolutely no problems apart from "EU politicians"

 

now for me this is not a "politicians" problem, I think you have to acknowledge the testing and first phase for this particular Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine have seen real issues emerge : incomplete testing, blood clot, delivery promises of 100M doses which turn up being 30M...

now, for blood clot: either it's a new production problem or the UK choose to go ahead where other countries are much more prudent before injecting millions of citizens with it. I see Netherland has suspended jabs as well. 

 

Norway, Denmark, and now the Netherlands and Ireland that's a lot of "politicians".

 

Australia is going on

Quote

Emeritus Prof Gerard Fitzgerald, a public health specialist from the Queensland University of Technology, said the countries that suspended the AstraZeneca vaccine rollout had acted “with extreme caution”. But it was important to remember blood clots are extremely common, and were so before the vaccines existed.

“For example, the CDC [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] in the US reports 60-100,000 deaths per year from lung blood clots,” Fitzgerald said.

“These are more common again in the elderly and those with chronic disease who are the people who are the target of the early vaccination programs. We also need to keep any risk in perspective. So far, more than 2.5 million people have died of Covid-19 and 8,000 to 10,000 people are dying each day around the world. More than 320 million people worldwide have already been vaccinated.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/15/why-some-countries-have-suspended-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-what-it-means-for-australia-explainer

[mommysboy]

28 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

You'll always find tabloids to tell you AZ is fine and there is absolutely no problems apart from "EU politicians"

 

now for me this is not a "politicians" problem, I think you have to acknowledge the testing and first phase for this particular Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine have seen real issues emerge : incomplete testing, blood clot, delivery promises of 100M doses which turn up being 30M...

now, for blood clot: either it's a new production problem or the UK choose to go ahead where other countries are much more prudent before injecting millions of citizens with it. I see Netherland has suspended jabs as well. 

 

Norway, Denmark, and now the Netherlands and Ireland that's a lot of "politicians".

 

Australia is going on

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/15/why-some-countries-have-suspended-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-what-it-means-for-australia-explainer

What silly nonsense. The phase 1 and 2 trials were as they should be and it has been approved around the world after phase 3 trials. The blood clot issue appears to be no more than for Pfizer (for instance) and all companies are having delivery issues.

The most valuable data is real world hard data coming out of the UK.  

Blood clots happen in normal times- 3000 per month in UK.  So of course they'll continue on vaccination days too. After all the drug is for covid19, and not for coagulation disorders. Comprenez!

[candide]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

No, as I said early on. EU politicians are - against the advice of their own medical authorities.

Actually, It's bit more complex. As health is not part of EU's prerogatives and the EMA has only a limited authority. Each member states still has its own health authorities and advisory committees.

In this particular case, the member state politicians have usually followed the advices of their national health authorities and advisory committees.

 

[KhaoYai]

53 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

You'll always find tabloids to tell you AZ is fine and there is absolutely no problems apart from "EU politicians"

Most of my quotes have been from either official sources or the BBC, not tabloids.

11 million + doses of AZ given in the UK and not a single blood clot.

[gargamon]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

11 million + doses of AZ given in the UK and not a single blood clot.

That doesn't mean there aren't some bad batches out there that may have caused clotting issues. I for one decided that I wouldn't take the AZ vaccine after S. Africa halted the use of the AZ vaccine since it was not effective against the S. African variant. 

But then, I'm getting the Pfizer jab tomorrow...

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Then why are you still blaming the EU?

I think that's obvious.  Let me put it a slightly different way. Official  medical sources, notably the EMA say there is no reason to stop administration of the AZ vaccine - politicians from EU countries, EU politicians, whatever semantics you wish to use, are the ones taking the decisions to halt the AZ vaccine. If that's not politicians going against medical advice, I'll eat my hat.

Should evidence arise that shows the AZ vaccine is dangerous, I'll be the first to say stop using it.

The chances of dying from Covid 19 are far higher than dying from a blood clot.

If you in the EU choose not to have the AZ vaccine, that's up to you but don't start moaning that the UK has had more favourable supplies of AZ.

The EU: Ordered the AZ vaccine late,

The EU regulator: Approved the AZ vaccine late,

Some EU members: Refused to approve the AZ vaccine for over 65's until much later. Thereby causing suspicion amongst EU citizens in general - so much so that even when they did approve it for over 65's, they struggled to get people to accept it. Germany for example, had only used 10% of its stocks up to last week.

Some EU countries: Have halted administration of the AZ vaccine when the EMA says there is no evidence to justify that.

All that set against a background of complaints that the UK received favourable supplies, made untrustworthy decisions and that the AZ vaccine had not been properly tested etc. etc.

Just take a look at the UK's results compared to EU member states since starting its vaccination programme and then tell me we were wrong.

I have absolutley no interest in EU citizens being treated unfairly and I'm not gloating over the figures, everyone should have access to vaccines and I hope this mess gets sorted out soon. 

The fact that some EU countries are seeing a rise in infections and deaths is not a result of them being unfairly treated by AZ, its a result of policy, both individually and collectively.

Now, I have a life to live - post away, I've said all I have to say.

[mommysboy]

33 minutes ago, gargamon said:

That doesn't mean there aren't some bad batches out there that may have caused clotting issues. I for one decided that I wouldn't take the AZ vaccine after S. Africa halted the use of the AZ vaccine since it was not effective against the S. African variant. 

But then, I'm getting the Pfizer jab tomorrow...

Whoa! Steady on buddy- like the AZ jab, the Pfizer causes blood clots and thrombocytopenia! You're only 99.99999999999999% safe!

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What silly nonsense.

Sorry?

What is your expertise that puts you in a position to contradicts vaccination experts of Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands and Ireland? 

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

The chances of dying from Covid 19 are far higher than dying from a blood clot.

Maybe but not everyone catches covid, and we're talking about injecting millions of citizens.

 

 

Quote

The EU: Ordered the AZ vaccine late,

repeat repeat repeat : the AZ-EU contract for ordering vaccine was signed before the UK vaccine contract (one day earlier, but still).

Now there were (many) other issues, as analyzed by Politico in the detailed article posted earlier.

 

Quote

The EU regulator: Approved the AZ vaccine late,

Vaccine approbation is based on testing data by scientists, maybe it's not the EMA which was slow, but the UK which approved very fast (the lack of testing with the 65+, for example was not a hindrance for injecting millions of elderly Britons).

Now, which medicine agencies in the world were faster than the EMA? Beside Israel and the UK ?

 

The EMA is an independent agency less susceptible to pressure by politicians. Now, its not immune either... ???? 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, gargamon said:

That doesn't mean there aren't some bad batches out there that may have caused clotting issues. I for one decided that I wouldn't take the AZ vaccine after S. Africa halted the use of the AZ vaccine since it was not effective against the S. African variant. 

But then, I'm getting the Pfizer jab tomorrow...

Did sent you a PM outlining some concerns...

[polpott]

19 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Maybe but not everyone catches covid, and we're talking about injecting millions of citizens.

 

 

repeat repeat repeat : the AZ-EU contract for ordering vaccine was signed before the UK vaccine contract (one day earlier, but still).

Now there were (many) other issues, as analyzed by Politico in the detailed article posted earlier.

 

Vaccine approbation is based on testing data by scientists, maybe it's not the EMA which was slow, but the UK which approved very fast (the lack of testing with the 65+, for example was not a hindrance for injecting millions of elderly Britons).

Now, which medicine agencies in the world were faster than the EMA? Beside Israel and the UK ?

 

The EMA is an independent agency less susceptible to pressure by politicians. Now, its not immune either... ???? 

What part of "there are no issues with the AZ vaccine" don't you understand? What part of " if you publically slag a company's product off (a la Macron) you're going to the back of the queue" don't you understand?

How's France's vaccine program doing? The UK has already innoculated more than 40% of its citizens. Do try to keep up.

BTW I see france's new cases are steadily rising. Dropping like a stone in the UK. Over 23k new cases in France today, a little over 4k in the UK. You snooze, you lose.

Edited March 15, 2021 by polpott

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Maybe but not everyone catches covid, and we're talking about injecting millions of citizens.

...

Did PM you some information of interest re this matter...

[candide]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Maybe but not everyone catches covid, and we're talking about injecting millions of citizens.

 

 

repeat repeat repeat : the AZ-EU contract for ordering vaccine was signed before the UK vaccine contract (one day earlier, but still).

Now there were (many) other issues, as analyzed by Politico in the detailed article posted earlier.

 

Vaccine approbation is based on testing data by scientists, maybe it's not the EMA which was slow, but the UK which approved very fast (the lack of testing with the 65+, for example was not a hindrance for injecting millions of elderly Britons).

Now, which medicine agencies in the world were faster than the EMA? Beside Israel and the UK ?

 

The EMA is an independent agency less susceptible to pressure by politicians. Now, its not immune either... ???? 

In addition, it is worth mentioning that the U.S. has refused to recognise trials made by AZ and has not yet approved the vaccine. The FDA is currently conducting its own trials.

The fact that the vaccine was not approved by the FDA did not prevent AZ from delivering tens of million doses to the US, doses which currently kept in warehouses.

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

What part of "there are no issues with the AZ vaccine" don't you understand?

again, for the time being and until further notice, as a precaution, I choose to take the word of experts of these countries over you word.

 

Any objections?

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

repeat repeat repeat : the AZ-EU contract for ordering vaccine was signed before the UK vaccine contract (one day earlier, but still).

UK: 24/05/21 Contract Confirmed

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/business/astrazeneca-to-begin-supplying-100-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine-to-uk-from-september-if-trials-succeed-9110892/

EU: 13/06/21 Agreement reached. (I read elswhere that the actual contract wasn't signed until August - can't find that now but I will if you insist)

 

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2020/astrazeneca-to-supply-europe-with-up-to-400-million-doses-of-oxford-universitys-vaccine-at-no-profit.html

Edit: I found one source:

'What are the supply problems?

The EU signed a deal with AstraZeneca in August for 300 million doses, with an option for 100 million more'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55822602

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by KhaoYai

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

UK: 24/05/21 Contract Confirmed

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/business/astrazeneca-to-begin-supplying-100-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine-to-uk-from-september-if-trials-succeed-9110892/

EU: 13/06/21 Agreement reached. (I read elswhere that the actual contract wasn't signed until August - can't find that now but I will if you insist)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2020/astrazeneca-to-supply-europe-with-up-to-400-million-doses-of-oxford-universitys-vaccine-at-no-profit.html

 

 

"

AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot made the argument that the U.K. had better vaccine supply because the U.K. signed an agreement for vaccines months earlier than the EU. Formally, this isn’t true: The U.K. contract was signed on August 28, while the EU’s was signed a day earlier on August 27. 

However, the key lies in an earlier agreement that AstraZeneca made back in May with the U.K., which was a binding deal establishing “the development of a dedicated supply chain for the U.K.,” an AstraZeneca spokesperson said."

From https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/

[polpott]

45 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

again, for the time being and until further notice, as a precaution, I choose to take the word of experts of these countries over you word.

 

Any objections?

What about the word of the vast majority of experts who have concluded that the AZ vaccine does not cause blood clots?

[KhaoYai]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot made the argument that the U.K. had better vaccine supply because the U.K. signed an agreement for vaccines months earlier than the EU. Formally, this isn’t true: The U.K. contract was signed on August 28, while the EU’s was signed a day earlier on August 27. 

However, the key lies in an earlier agreement that AstraZeneca made back in May with the U.K., which was a binding deal establishing “the development of a dedicated supply chain for the U.K.,” an AstraZeneca spokesperson said."

From https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/

Well is seems there's differences in the reporting on all sites - who knows which is true?  The one thing I am confident is correct is the EU were one month later with their approval than the UK and then some countries stalled that further by halting vaccinations for over 65's.

Edited March 15, 2021 by KhaoYai

[irishman25]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:21 PM, irishman25 said:

As a Irishman the UK is leading the way to quickly control and stop this covid 19 virus. they were right to lengthy the does;s to 9 to 12 weeks more people can get vaccinated and SAVE LIVES other country's should do the same   

the  good news the UK will have vaccinated over 32.million by April 30.2021. and by August millions more.   EU now have millions of vaccines is storage going to waste. they have STOP vaccines and worse they BLOCKED shipping vaccine to Australia, The UK Government were right to get out of this  Gang of scorpion;s  who run EU     

[KhaoYai]

Apparently there will be an announcement from the EMA tomorrow as to the safety or otherwise of the AZ vaccine.

Based on what happened in Germany when they firstly halted using AZ for over 65's and then re-approved it, I think its fairly certain that public confidence in the AZ vaccine will have been damaged whatever the EMA decides.

If it is subsequently found that the suspensions have been well founded, a few lives may have been saved. If they were unfounded, many lives will be lost.

I feel lucky to live in a country where we are just getting on with things - vaccinating our population against a killer virus.

Edited March 15, 2021 by KhaoYai

[irishman25]

23 minutes ago, polpott said:

What about the word of the vast majority of experts who have concluded that the AZ vaccine does not cause blood clots?

in the world we now live Stupid is now the norm