Denmark, Norway and Iceland suspend AstraZeneca COVID shots after blood clot reports

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18 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Good news for Africa?

The AZ vaccine has many qualities, but it does not work for the South African variant, as you know. Given the relations between SA and the other countries of the continent this variant must be dominant except maybe in north Africa.

https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/476342/south-africa-among-countries-left-with-a-massive-bill-from-fighting-for-covid-vaccine-scraps/

 

Not necessarily true. It doesn't offer much protection against mild and moderate cases. But if it's like other vaccines that have lower efficacy, it still accomplishes the most important function: protection against illness severe enough to require hospitalization and death.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I have provided links from official sources and reliable news sources to substantiate most of what I have written

You have provided no such to substantiate your oft repeated claim that 

19 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

its just sour grapes over Brexit.

Which, I repeat, is a pity, as much else of what you have posted here makes sense.

I also repeat: other than that; I refer you to the responses made to you previously.

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Which, I repeat, is a pity, as much else of what you have posted here makes sense.

And as I have already SAID - that's an opinion!

 

[KhaoYai]

Absolutely unbelievable! Ursula von der Leyen on TV tonight complaining that the EU is still not getting its fair share of vaccine and threatening action.  This as they hold stocks of the AZ that they are not using!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/45877605

Suggestions on BBC TV news that some EU countries will soon be throwing out of date vaccine away. Also interviews with members of the public in the EU stating that even if the AZ vaccine is full approved again, they are too scared to have it.

[mommysboy]

18 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Simple : EU countries will decide to go on with AZ, but many will fear this vaccine. Especially In the few days after being injected. 

 

If I get it right, AZ is 17% of total vaccinations (Germany). 

 

So we'll just hobble along : if people have a choice, they won't take the AZ. But right now, we simply don't, so there are lots of people like me ready for any jab. 

 

Very extensive article

Why home-produced Covid vaccine hasn't helped India, Russia and China rollouts

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/why-covid-vaccine-home-produced-india-russia-china-slow-start?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Once again the AZ vaccine has a similar safety profile to the Pfizer jab.  Both are implicated to an unknown extent in a rare disorder known as immune thrombocytopenia, as are most other vaccines. Both are similarly implicated in less common brain blood cots most especially in younger women, but death is thankfully quite rare.

Your attitude is typical of some Europeans who believe AZ is a second-class vaccine- it's not!

Make your decision, but don't spread myth.  Later today, time permitting, I will link to the real world figures for both the above.  In the meantime, this is what you are missing:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9373145/More-proof-power-Covid-vaccines-PHE-chief-unveils-raft-fresh-data.html

 

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.  

 

[placnx]

15 hours ago, gargamon said:

At no point did I say I was currently in Thailand... My Pfizer jab was uneventful.

No one accused you of being in Thailand

[placnx]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

Not necessarily true. It doesn't offer much protection against mild and moderate cases. But if it's like other vaccines that have lower efficacy, it still accomplishes the most important function: protection against illness severe enough to require hospitalization and death.

It is very important to stop this pandemic, so it is very relevant whether the vaccine can stop transmission. Obviously the AZ cannot in the case of the South African variant. There was a good discussion about the AZ hesitancy issue being exacerbated due to various EU countries halting AZ vaccinations

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2021/3/17/whats-the-future-of-the-astrazeneca-vaccine

They mentioned the need for AZ (and others) to tweak the vaccine or develop boosters.

[placnx]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Once again the AZ vaccine has a similar safety profile to the Pfizer jab.  Both are implicated to an unknown extent in a rare disorder known as immune thrombocytopenia, as are most other vaccines. Both are similarly implicated in less common brain blood cots most especially in younger women, but death is thankfully quite rare.

Your attitude is typical of some Europeans who believe AZ is a second-class vaccine- it's not!

Make your decision, but don't spread myth.  Later today, time permitting, I will link to the real world figures for both the above.  In the meantime, this is what you are missing:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9373145/More-proof-power-Covid-vaccines-PHE-chief-unveils-raft-fresh-data.html

 

It makes more sense to continue using AZ vaccine, but to thoroughly investigate the blood clots in brains of young female vaccinees.

[spidermike007]

This feels like utter mindlessness. If you take a group of five million people, or course you will have some dying of blood clots. There does not appear to be a scientific or medical proof that the vaccine caused any of this. Fear and paranoia can be a terrible thing. 

 

Now Thailand will halt this too, and be left only with the Sino junk? A true BOB (bottom of the barrel) approach to vaccination. 

[balo]

What is worrying is that 3 Norwegian hospital workers are in intensive care 8-10 days after the Astra-Z shot.    One of them has died.  All of them under the age of 50 and did not have any other serious disease.  
That tells me I will never risk my life with Astra-Zeneca.   Give me a Sputnik any day. 

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

It makes more sense to continue using AZ vaccine, but to thoroughly investigate the blood clots in brains of young female vaccinees.

It is an area that has been investigated before because these problems have been raised before with all vaccines. It's a rare phenomenon thankfully. It is also linked possibly to the contraceptive pill, but nothing is definitively known except blood clots of these types are age and gender specific, ie, younger women. 

The problem is you can pick any disorder that happens around vaccine day and insist that it was because of the vaccine, but in reality these things occur on any normal day too.

I do think this sub group should be warned of the small possible danger of taking any vaccine (yes Pfizer too), and anyway do younger people really need a vaccine anyway? 

Perhaps in a year's time the real culprit can be revealed and my guess is it's The Pill or covid19 itself.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, balo said:

What is worrying is that 3 Norwegian hospital workers are in intensive care 8-10 days after the Astra-Z shot.    One of them has died.  All of them under the age of 50 and did not have any other serious disease.  
That tells me I will never risk my life with Astra-Zeneca.   Give me a Sputnik any day. 

You will see here the full extent of the issue as it relates to both the Pfizer and AZ vaccines. This is from the UK's own surveillance scheme which is regarded by many as the best of its kind.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968413/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-_BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print__2_.pdf

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968414/COVID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

 

Page 1 contains the information needed.  Note this is not a comparison between the two since more AZ vaccines were used on at risk groups.  You will see that there remarkable similarities, however. 

You can see that the Pfizer vaccine is also linked to blood clots,DVT, and thrombopycenia.

Edited March 18, 2021 by mommysboy

[placnx]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It is an area that has been investigated before because these problems have been raised before with all vaccines. It's a rare phenomenon thankfully. It is also linked possibly to the contraceptive pill, but nothing is definitively known except blood clots of these types are age and gender specific, ie, younger women. 

The problem is you can pick any disorder that happens around vaccine day and insist that it was because of the vaccine, but in reality these things occur on any normal day too.

I do think this sub group should be warned of the small possible danger of taking any vaccine (yes Pfizer too), and anyway do younger people really need a vaccine anyway? 

Perhaps in a year's time the real culprit can be revealed and my guess is it's The Pill or covid19 itself.

They certainly need to be vaccinated since they can get infected and spread it. There will always be some people who can or will not be vaccinated, so in order to get around 80% of the population jabbed, younger women need to participate.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

They certainly need to be vaccinated since they can get infected and spread it. There will always be some people who can or will not be vaccinated, so in order to get around 80% of the population jabbed, younger women need to participate.

But the point is provided those patients at risk have been vaccinated then it really doesn't matter whether the other person has the virus or not.  Primarily, the goal is to protect the individual from becoming seriously ill.

Ideally, yes, both should be protected.

But if there is a risk associated with some young women on the pill, then I think they really should need to know about it.  And they shouldn't be forced in to the vaccine if that risk is significantly above the 1 in a million chance we all have to shoulder.

For example, we are not advising people with sever allergies to have a vaccination.

Edited March 18, 2021 by mommysboy

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On 3/17/2021 at 9:23 AM, mommysboy said:

The general consensus is the extensive trial is nearing the point where a result can be declared. It is of course done on the old sub optimal dosing strategy and so is of limited value. There are again no safety issues nor have been on any trial.

At the now generally accepted dosing strategy it is 82% effective.  Real world data trumps all.  Nobody except you is doubting its effectiveness.

Authorization is anticipated.

USA was not keen on letting go of its stockpile.

And even that 82 percent figure is an underestimate where it counts. 82% efficact refers to the complete absence of any symptoms. But when it comes to preventing symptoms severe enough to result in hospitalization or death, it's at virtually 100%,

[balo]

The experts who have examined three hospitalized health workers in Norway believe the AstraZeneca vaccine led to a severe immune response. One of the three passed away.

– Our theory that this is a severe immune response that very likely follows after the vaccine has been found. Together with Section for advanced thrombocyte immunology at the University hospital of Northern Norway (UNN) we have now proved specific antibodies against platelets, which can give a picture like this, which we recognize in other sections of medicine, but then with medication as the trigger, explains the chief physician.

professor-says-cause-of-rare-bloodclots-in-people-vaccinated-with-astrazeneca-has-been-found

 

[lkv]

EMA has concluded that:

- COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is not associated with an increased overall risk of blood clotting disorders.

- There  have been very rare cases of unusual blood clots accompanied by low levels of blood platelets (components that help blood to clot) after vaccination. The reported cases were almost all in women under 55.

- Because COVID-19 can be so serious and is so widespread, the benefits of the vaccine in preventing it outweigh the risks of side effects.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots

 

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, balo said:

The experts who have examined three hospitalized health workers in Norway believe the AstraZeneca vaccine led to a severe immune response. One of the three passed away.

– Our theory that this is a severe immune response that very likely follows after the vaccine has been found. Together with Section for advanced thrombocyte immunology at the University hospital of Northern Norway (UNN) we have now proved specific antibodies against platelets, which can give a picture like this, which we recognize in other sections of medicine, but then with medication as the trigger, explains the chief physician.

professor-says-cause-of-rare-bloodclots-in-people-vaccinated-with-astrazeneca-has-been-found

 

They can't possibly say what caused it at this stage- it's a theory amongst many. 

But ok, Norway shouldn't use it, maybe, if it believes this is more than a 5 in 11 million chance like in the UK.  That's hard data and real analysis. To repeat 5 in 11 million, and that's just establishing a chronological connection- not causation.

Yes, it's perfectly possible that the vaccine is implicated as the trigger, but these people likely have an immune imbalance of some kind. Prior infection with covid may be the cause.  

All vaccines are associated with rare problems however: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/08/health/immune-thrombocytopenia-covid-vaccine-blood.html Since the publication date more cases have been reported.

[Hi from France]

In a few hours 

Quote

Jean Castex annonce qu’il se fera vacciner en public par une dose d’AstraZeneca

https://www.ouest-france.fr/europe/france/jean-castex-annonce-qu-il-se-fera-vacciner-en-public-par-une-dose-d-astrazeneca-7191263

 

Translation  

Jean Castex announces that he will be vaccinated in public with a dose of AstraZeneca

[placnx]

23 hours ago, mommysboy said:

But the point is provided those patients at risk have been vaccinated then it really doesn't matter whether the other person has the virus or not.  Primarily, the goal is to protect the individual from becoming seriously ill.

Ideally, yes, both should be protected.

But if there is a risk associated with some young women on the pill, then I think they really should need to know about it.  And they shouldn't be forced in to the vaccine if that risk is significantly above the 1 in a million chance we all have to shoulder.

For example, we are not advising people with sever allergies to have a vaccination.

Having vaccines that prevent people from becoming seriously ill, needing hospitalisation, is the short term goal, to protect the healthcare system from overload. With this very infectious virus capable of developing variants even more infectious, ultimately we need the vaccine to seriously diminish the spread.

Regarding allergies, contraindication has been has been for those with previous allergic reaction to vaccine constituents AFAIK. Where did you hear about risk associated with the pill?

[7by7]

On 3/17/2021 at 7:39 PM, KhaoYai said:

On 3/17/2021 at 2:41 PM, 7by7 said:

Which, I repeat, is a pity, as much else of what you have posted here makes sense.

And as I have already SAID - that's an opinion!

Indeed, it is my opinion that much of what you have posted makes sense.

Don't you agree?