Facing 'crisis of century', EU threatens ban on COVID vaccine exports to UK

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, candide said:

The contract does not specify that EU supply must be produced in the EU-27. You can repeat it as many times as you want, it won't make it true. 

So no supply from AZ factories in UK because of UK first, no supply from AZ or others in the US because of US first, and the EU should go on exporting its own production to other countries as if nothing happened? That's not serious.

You forget its not the EU exporting to other countries, its BionTech/Pfizer, Its simple the EU Comission have ordered an amount of Vaccines from BionTech/Pfizer which BionTech/Pfizer have fulfilled that order, so BionTech/Pfizer are simply exporting Vaccines to the rest of the world that is surplus to the EU comission requirements.

[vinny41]

Here is an example of EU First policy

EU commissioner: AstraZeneca logic might work at the butcher’s, but not in vaccine contracts

‘We reject the logic of first come, first served,’ says Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides.

"Pharmaceutical companies and vaccine developers have a moral, societal and contractual responsibility which they need to uphold," Kyriakides said. "The view that the company signed a best effort agreement is neither correct nor it is acceptable."

Here she is stating that while the EU and AZ both signed a contract where it clearly states that production output and delivery is subject to Best effort agreement she doesn't beleive that is  correct nor it is acceptable

I am sure most members have been in a bar, resturant, airport queue where waiting their turn to be served when someone that thinks queuing and waiting their turn doesn't apply to them as they are special

https://www.politico.eu/article/health-commissioner-astrazeneca-logic-might-work-at-butcher-but-not-in-contracts/

Small Petrol station in Italy only has 60 litres of fuel left in their tanks

The local Mafia boss arrives in his car to fill up just as the petrol attendant puts the noozle in the Mafia Boss petrol tank

Then suddenly VDL and her crew turn up ( we already know they don't accept the policy of 1st come 1st served and demand that because they are special and the EU comission that they should received the reminding 60 litres of fuel

I suspect that VDL are her crew would be told where to go in no uncertain terms

[candide]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

You forget its not the EU exporting to other countries, its BionTech/Pfizer, Its simple the EU Comission have ordered an amount of Vaccines from BionTech/Pfizer which BionTech/Pfizer have fulfilled that order, so BionTech/Pfizer are simply exporting Vaccines to the rest of the world that is surplus to the EU comission requirements.

You have a point. However, in the US, It's also Pfizer etc... but exports are tightly restricted by the new US government, which ends up having an effect on UK through India. In India, it's manufacturers who decide which order they deliver or not, but from what I know from this country, It's obvious that there are governmental influences. So It's a broader issue than the UK-EU conflict.

[Hi from France]

15 hours ago, vinny41 said:

UK put a UK first clause in their contract with AZ to prevent EU bully boys 

 

Quote

It Crystal clear there

 

Quote

Its Clear 

Do not forget to give reliable sources: this post looks like pure speculation 

 

To me what is interesting is to see how "vaccine diplomacy" has emerged. 

 

What we have here is another occurrence of how Europe - UK relations turn more and more ugly 

Quote

Boris Johnson went out of his way this week not to blame Delhi for the later-than-expected arrival of 5m doses of the Oxford vaccine from India, which is contributing to a significant dip in supplies in April.

While 

Quote

Johnson’s remarks were in stark contrast to the robust response from the foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, when the president of the European commission, Ursula Von der Leyen, threatened to slap an export ban on vaccines due to leave the EU.

Raab and Johnson show two faces of UK's vaccine diplomacy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/19/raab-and-johnson-show-two-faces-of-uks-vaccine-diplomacy

 

The UK prefers the India authoritarian regime to Europe, the only thing holding them back is 

Quote

He won’t want to fall out too badly with the EU either, however. Weighing on the prime minister’s mind will be the fact that he is due to host leaders of the G7 nations in Cornwall in June (travel restrictions allowing), and will not want to do so against the backdrop of a vicious diplomatic spat.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

But all in all, its a simple calculation.

• India delivers to UK : 5 millions vaccines dises
• EU delivers to UK : 9 million doses
• UK delivers to the EU/India : nothing

Brexiteer or not, this is simple maths. 

 

We are simply being taken for a ride, this is quite often the case when dealing with the UK

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

But all in all, its a simple calculation.

• India delivers to UK : 5 millions vaccines dises
• EU delivers to UK : 9 million doses
• UK delivers to the EU/India : nothing

Brexiteer or not, this is simple maths. 

 

Behind the nice language, we are just taken for a ride by the UK 

But the UK does export to the EU the essential ingredients that allows the EU to produce their own vaccines

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

But the UK does export to the EU the essential ingredients that allows the EU to produce their own vaccines

I'm not sure about that, you've seen the post saying otherwise on this thread. 

 

Now the problem is we have no reliable exhaustive source on the supply chains for each vaccine. 

 

What I suppose is: the supply chain situation is just complicated we are still in a single market pre-brexit configuration even though 1/there is no single market anymore and 2/relations have turned more and more execrable. 

So we have mutual dependency, the EU realize it's being taken for a ride, the UK threatens to block whatever they can in the supply chain instead of reciprocating.. we are more into asymmetrical warfare than cooperation. 

 

I just read that Mark's and Spencer stores in France are still quite empty, even though we are in the third month after the supposed EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement. 

 

Now of course there is a worldwide supply chain as we see with India missing US sourcing. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France

[connda]

There's your vision for our dystopian future:  Humanity walking hand-in-hand together to beat the deadly pandemic to insure the survival of the human species. 
#Sarcasm Off

Thank God this one only kills 0.4 % of the population who contracts the diseases on average.  The one thing this 'pandemic' has exemplified is the sheer depth of the human capacity for greed as the pharmaceutical industry is given card blanche to force humanity to take their vaccinations, and then governments fight like spoiled, petulant children over who gets the lion share of the vaccines as they say the hell with distributing them in an equitable manner for those who actually want to take it order to feel safe.

Money, power, and greed - Every man for himself. 

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, connda said:

There's your vision for our dystopian future:  Humanity walking hand-in-hand together to beat the deadly pandemic to insure the survival of the human species. 
#Sarcasm Off

Thank God this one only kills 0.4 % of the population who contracts the diseases on average.  The one thing this 'pandemic' has exemplified is the sheer depth of the human capacity for greed as the pharmaceutical industry is given card blanche to force humanity to take their vaccinations, and then governments fight like spoiled, petulant children over who gets the lion share of the vaccines as they say the hell with distributing them in an equitable manner for those who actually want to take it order to feel safe.

Money, power, and greed - Every man for himself. 

Did you expect anything else?

There is a reason all the antenna looking for intelligent life point away from earth.

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I'm not sure about that, you've seen the post saying otherwise on this thread. 

 

Now the problem is we have no reliable exhaustive source on the supply chains for each vaccine. 

 

What I suppose is: the supply chain situation is just complicated we are still in a single market pre-brexit configuration even though 1/there is no single market anymore and 2/relations have turned more and more execrable. 

So we have mutual dependency, the EU realize it's being taken for a ride, the UK threatens to block whatever they can in the supply chain instead of reciprocating.. we are more into asymmetrical warfare than cooperation. 

 

I just read that Mark's and Spencer stores in France are still quite empty, even though we are in the third month after the supposed EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement. 

 

Now of course there is a worldwide supply chain as we see with India missing US sourcing. 

If the UK didn't export to the EU the essential ingredients that allows the EU to produce their own vaccines

There would be no reason why Boris and VDL would discuss the topic would there

Mrs von der Leyen has spoken to Boris Johnson, who played down the idea that the UK could retaliate to an EU vaccine export ban by blocking the export of vaccine components. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/18/european-medicines-agency-investigation-clears-astrazeneca-vaccine/

As far as I am aware the UK hasn't threaten to block anything, Its only the EU that is talking about banning exports to certain countries

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, cocoonclub said:

They still can skip all the customers who don’t have a status, even though those may have arrived an hours before. 

Again, where does the EU-AZ contract say that the vaccines will be distributed according to your idea of a supermarket queue? 
 

 

And where in the Contract between the EU comission and AZ does it state that the EU will have preferential delivery and can override other countries delivery schedules 

The EU attitude is they wanted AZ to To rob Peter to pay Paul

Edited March 20, 2021 by vinny41
additional info

[Hi from France]

36 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As far as I am aware the UK hasn't threaten to block anything, Its only the EU that is talking about banning exports to certain countries

Indeed, the least we can do is realise we are being taken for a ride! 

I'd say there are two types of contracts and treaties : those we put the UK national-populist government at an advantage and those who do not. Some are respected, some are not. 

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Indeed, the least we can do is realise we are being taken for a ride! 

I'd say there are two types of contracts and treaties : those we put the UK national-populist government at an advantage and those who do not. Some are respected, some are not. 

Its simple the UK Goverment added an addittional clause into the UK AZ agreement that states the first 100 million doses goes to the UK market after that AZ is free to sell to who ever they want

Irish share of €5bn EU Brexit fund could be slashed under French plan

Just under €1 billion of the fund was to be received by Ireland in pre-financing in 2021

Ireland is hardest hit by the consequences of Brexit. The proposal by the Commission took this into account,” an EU diplomat said. “Efforts by Paris to change the allocation criteria would result in cuts for Ireland and more money for France. This doesn’t really make for a nice picture.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-share-of-5bn-eu-brexit-fund-could-be-slashed-under-french-plan-1.4512255

Is seems France wants a large slice of the cake at  Ireland expense

Edited March 20, 2021 by vinny41

[billd766]

30 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

You were the one whining about this,  and demanding a first-come-first-served distribution, not me. So you’re making a fuss about this without even having read the contract? Congrats. 
 

 

Have you read the contract yourself?

[Hi from France]

53 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its simple the UK Goverment added an addittional clause into the UK AZ agreement that states the first 100 million doses goes to the UK market

As explained, I'm not sure we care about private contract clauses saying "UK first and you can go to hell"

 

All we see is we have delivered millions vaccines to the UK while getting none from the UK

• we can also take note that 40% of the population is vaccinated in the UK versus 13% in Europe
• we should finally realize the UK can make a lot of promises, only not respect them afterward

 

in the future, the best way to go is to reduce any critical dependence of our Union to the UK, but that will take time

in the present we can act now and legally, by using article 122

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

As explained, I'm not sure we care about private contract clauses saying "UK first and you can go to hell"

 

All we see is we have delivered millions vaccines to the UK while getting none from the UK

• we can also take note that 40% of the population is vaccinated in the UK versus 13% in Europe
• we should finally realize the UK can make a lot of promises, only not respect them afterward

 

in the future, the best way to go is to reduce any critical dependence of our Union to the UK, but that will take time

in the present we can act now and legally, by using article 122

 

 

Wasn't it the EU that wanted AZ to redirect its entire production output from the UK production sites to the EU

That to be is stating EU first and the UK can go to hell

If we use your figures in real terms i.e numbers of people that means the EU has vaccinated 65 million people a far greater number than the UK which has vaccinated only 26 million people

The majority of being exported out of the UK are surplus to EU requirements , they are more expensive that the not for profit AZ version.

The EU could place a new order with pfizer biontech and state that all production output is shipped to the EU first

They even try and force  pfizer biontech to supply the EU with vaccine at the same price as the AZ vaccine, not sure how that would work out, It could result in people going into a Mercedes or a porsche showroom demanding a Mercedes or a Porsche at Fiesta prices

I have no issue with the EU using article 122 if they so wish but it wouldn't solve the issue of how they can produced vaccines if vaccine components from other countries are blocked in a retaliation move.

 

I 

 

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I have no issue with the EU using article 122 if they so wish but it wouldn't solve the issue of how they can produced vaccines if vaccine components from other countries are blocked in a retaliation move.

This is what we need to analyse. 

 

But the (partial) infos I have on the supply chain is that the biggest key ARN provider is in Switzerland. So although disrupting could be a loose-loose like Brexit, we are probably in the same situation, when "we loose 1, you loose 6". 

 

Now this is not just the question of the % of population protected. The first injection goes to the ones who are most vulnerable and I think the UK is close to 100% there. 

 

And we are not in the usual petty UK gestures like giving an inferior position to our ambassador. There are people dying here. 

 

So although I understand that there might be a private (probably secret btw?) contract saying one UK life is worth more than 10 EU lives, we must do everything in our power to prevent more deaths. 

 

That probably includes asking big pharma to stop exporting doses to the UK at the moment, regardless of contracts they have.

That does not mean that we should not export to countries that need help more than we do, just to the UK at the moment, considering their current selfish behaviour. 

 

Ironically, the UK (more than Russia, the USA or China) is our most important threat there. 

I have to find it again, but I read a paper mentioning liberal democracies should work together. This is not the present situation. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.

 

[irishman25]

On 3/18/2021 at 2:00 AM, vinny41 said:

So EU blocks the UK from receiving any  vaccine produced in the EU and the UK blocks any ingredients that the EU requires to produced the  vaccine in the EU. End result EU unable to produced any vaccine

 No problem just buy for discount or maybe FREE the Russian Vaccine. oh  sorry i forgot there are now the bad guys, the USA told you obey. seem;s most poor country's are delighted for there help?now over 20.   

[CG1 Blue]

7 hours ago, Hi from France said:

But all in all, its a simple calculation.

• India delivers to UK : 5 millions vaccines dises
• EU delivers to UK : 9 million doses
• UK delivers to the EU/India : nothing

Brexiteer or not, this is simple maths. 

 

We are simply being taken for a ride, this is quite often the case when dealing with the UK

I thought it was Astrazeneca delivering those vaccines to the UK?

 Are you saying the EU manufactured and delivered 9 million doses of the vaccine to the UK? How nice of them ????

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

This is what we need to analyse. 

 

But the (partial) infos I have on the supply chain is that the biggest key ARN provider is in Switzerland. So although disrupting could be a loose-loose like Brexit, we are probably in the same situation, when "we loose 1, you loose 6". 

 

Now this is not just the question of the % of population protected. The first injection goes to the ones who are most vulnerable and I think the UK is close to 100% there. 

 

And we are not in the usual petty UK gestures like giving an inferior position to our ambassador. There are people dying here. 

 

So although I understand that there might be a private (probably secret btw?) contract saying one UK life is worth more than 10 EU lives, we must do everything in our power to prevent more deaths. 

 

That probably includes asking big pharma to stop exporting doses to the UK at the moment, regardless of contracts they have.

That does not mean that we should not export to countries that need help more than we do, just to the UK at the moment, considering their current selfish behaviour. 

 

Ironically, the UK (more than Russia, the USA or China) is our most important threat there. 

I have to find it again, but I read a paper mentioning liberal democracies should work together. This is not the present situation. 

It would appear its the EU countries that are selfish, they appear to be the only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling vaccines, how many million of doses are being stored unused in each EU country.

As previously stated the UK has been exporting for a number of months now  the  essential vaccine ingredient that helps the EU to produce their own vaccines.

If the EU is planning to ask big pharma to stop exporting doses to the UK at the moment, regardless of contracts they have.

The question has to be ask why

Have these big pharma provided the EU with all the vaccines that the EU have ordered, Yes

So these vaccines that are being exported are surplus to EU requirements but now the EU wants to dictate to these big pharma who they can supply to and who they can't

It would seem that the main concern is if the UK economy recovers earlier that the EU  economy due to full vaccine rollout  that would put the UK economy at an advantage

Your making yourself foolish when posting  statements  saying one UK life is worth more than 10 EU lives no-one has ever stated that other than yourself

Its the responsibility of each country to take care of all people that are residing in that country 1st and once they have fully discharged that responsibility then they should assist other countries if they require assistance

 

 

[vinny41]

How Europe fell behind on vaccines

The EU secured some of the lowest prices in the world. At what cost?

The blame game playing out in public is a boiling over of mistrust that has undermined the EU’s ambitions to vaccinate its citizens in concert. As the EU has discovered, wielding the market power and moral authority of 27 sovereign nations — with different budgets and perspectives on risk — means moving more slowly than the one-and-done competition. For the bloc’s wealthier countries, especially, the question is whether domestic voters will decide the solidarity is worth the delay.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

It would appear its the EU countries that are selfish, they appear to be the only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling vaccines, how many million of doses are being stored unused in each EU country.

Any proof of this? 

 

The biggest stockpile is AZ in the USA. They still have not approved the vaccine yet while they have tens of millions of unused doses of the vaccine in storage. Some have been sent to Mexico and Canada lately. 

 

They have so many that they could end up expiring?

 

Now about your claim, about "only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling" please back it up now

 

Here is my source Feel free to share yours with me 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/543661-fda-official-us-astrazeneca-stockpile-not-in-danger-of-expiring

 

 

As for stockpiles in the EU countries, AFAIK, they are due to the precautions and the 72h delay last week in most EU countries.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

Good long read. 

The EU had zero competence on buying vaccine a few months ago, so on the plus side, we have made considerable progress. On the minus side there is much to say... 

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Any proof of this? 

 

The biggest stockpile is AZ in the USA. They still have not approved the vaccine yet while they have tens of millions of unused doses of the vaccine in storage. Some have been sent to Mexico and Canada lately. 

 

Feel free to prove you are right 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/543661-fda-official-us-astrazeneca-stockpile-not-in-danger-of-expiring

 

As for stockpiles in the EU countries, AFAIK, they are due to the precautions and the 72h delay last week in most EU countries.

EU member states have received 62.2 million vaccines under the joint procurement scheme run by Brussels and administered 77 per cent of those – about 48 million shots. About 14.8 million AstraZeneca vaccines have been delivered to EU countries, with less than half, 7.3 million, being used.

Stella Kyriakides, the European health commissioner, said on Tuesday that vaccination was "more than ever key" and urged EU member states to use every vaccine they had rather than stockpiling them. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/16/european-commission-hits-eu-governments-hoarding-unused-covid/

 

Some 4 million AstraZeneca doses EU sought expected to go to US neighbours

A day after president Joe Biden met Taoiseach Micheál Martin, the White House confirmed plans to ship 4 million vaccine doses to Canada and Mexico. In total the US has 7 million “releasable doses” of vaccines, White House press secretary Jen Psaki said, leaving open the possibility that the EU could still tap some of the supply ultimately.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-to-send-vaccine-stockpile-to-mexico-canada-dashing-eu-hopes-1.4513964

[Hi from France]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Good long read. 

The EU had zero competence on buying vaccine a few months ago, so on the plus side, we have made considerable progress. On the minus side there is much to say... 

Note this counter-narrative. 

The EU shared and exported vaccines, while the UK and the USA took them and in addition kept their production to themselves 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1372897635577761803.html

 

That's why we should not have exported to the UK in the first place. The UK takes, but gives zip in return.  

 

[Hi from France]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

EU member states have received 62.2 million vaccines under the joint procurement scheme run by Brussels and administered 77 per cent of those – about 48 million shots. About 14.8 million AstraZeneca vaccines have been delivered to EU countries, with less than half, 7.3 million, being used.

Fine 

 

Now you are supposed to back your claim

Quote

they appear to be the only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling vaccines, 

Please use your own claim and back it up without skipping the question. 

Thanks

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Hi from France said:

Note this counter-narrative. 

The EU shared and exported vaccines, while the UK and the USA took them and in addition kept their production to themselves 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1372897635577761803.html

 

That's why we should not have exported to the UK in the first place. The UK takes, but gives zip in return.  

 

You still don't get it its not the EU that is exporting these vaccines the majority of the exports are from pfizer biontech which has supplied the EU countries with the number of vaccines that they have ordered either directly or through the EU comission And the vaccines they are exporting are surplus to EU requirements i.e the EU hasn't placed any additional orders with  pfizer biontech

Huge wakeup call to any business thinking about moving to the EU, we will tell you who to sell to and who not to sell to and if you end up with stock that is unused and surplus to requirements tough

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Fine 

 

Now you are supposed to back your claim

Please use your own claim and back it up without skipping the question. 

Thanks

just for you I will amended my claim

t would appear its the EU countries that are selfish, they appear to be the only countries in Europe that are currently stockpiling vaccines, how many million of doses are being stored unused in each EU country.

Edited March 20, 2021 by vinny41
typo

[Hi from France]

53 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

just for you I will amended my claim.

Fine but why "just for me?" why not just rescind it and admit it was just false? 

 

We also need to study the "supply chain retaliation claim" but this is going to be more complicated 

 

First a recap of the supply chain 

 

I also listened to a very interesting podcast but it's in French. https://pca.st/b6qe9bak

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hi from France