Biden calls for tighter gun control measures after Colorado shooting

[simple1]

8 hours ago, Sujo said:

Which has nothing to do with the US border. It also doesnt make any asylum seekers illegal.

Beg to differ. US has only committed to the UN protocols, not a full signatory to UN Conventions Refugees and has asylum seeker exclusion with it's "stay in Mexico" legislation. Could be incorrect, but don't believe Biden has yet to legally reverse "stay in Mexico'.

Edited March 28, 2021 by simple1

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Of course people that favor gun control want to reduce all kinds of gun violence including suicides. A big problem is that gun control laws need to be national.

 

Again mass shootings get a lot of publicity because they are mass shootings 

 

Everyone wants to reduce all gun violence and deaths. We have national gun control laws now, and I agree they should be stronger, but I also think existing federal gun law should be much better enforced. People violating these laws should be prosecuted and it seems that generally they are not. Why are we not talking about better enforcement of gun law violations? Do you thing people that are currently breaking or circumventing existing gun laws will abide new gun laws? 

 

To me, it seems implementing new laws when the old laws go largely unenforced makes little sense for anything other than political reasons.

 

Yes, they are mass shootings, and it is easy for the media to sensationalize some nut-sack killing ten people in a grocery store, but would it not also be easy to sensationalize one hundred ten (110) killings a day?

 

Why does the Times not run a box with a daily and cumulative count? Names and pictures of the victims? Do you not think that would be a good way to garner support for gun control victims? I am sure virtually everyone the left and right cares about these victims, but clearly the media does not. 

[Phoenix Rising]

13 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I do not think that is true. I think the if the mass slaughter of young black men that occurs on a basis daily were widely publicized it would absolutely  put gun control on the national agenda, and it would stay on the national agenda until something was done about it. But unfortunately, the press does not care about the mass slaughter of young black men because it does not fit their narrative or forward their political agenda.

 

It is only when a "mass shooting" of whites in  a grocery store are killed with an assault rifle they can blame on the GOP, or the killing of a group of Asian women that they can blame on Trump that become outraged. 

 

Almost 110 gun deaths A DAY in the USA and when was the last time you heard anything about it?

 

NOW, we are going to do something about it. And what are we going to do? Let's not focus on the almost 110 gun deaths A DAY in the US. Let's do something about the 500 gun deaths A YEAR that we can make political hay from.

 

It is ridiculous 

 

 

 

 

It's "realpolitik". The steady stream of black deaths by gun you rightly mention won't move the (mostly) white men and women into action, creating the necessary political momentum for systemic change.

Unfortunately, only wholesale slaughter of women and children seems to be able to do this for a brief period of time.

[7by7]

15 hours ago, meechai said:

 

So your solution is what? Do nothing then?

 

Truth is when crazy comes to town not many can stop it

But you can enforce a real punishment for the perpetrators caught alive & why not?

 

In your "how will that"  scenario's what is your answer?

 

 Lock the mentally ill up & remove all their rights to movement?? You think a bullet is the only weapon a mentally ill person could use??

 

Same goes for terrorist....Why not maybe also find out what caused all the terrorism....perhaps they were terrorized first?

 

Snipers who expect to get away?? You talking about the creators of the terrorist?

 

Truthfully don't know why I even responded to your "How will that" nonsense because How Will it help as you have no point..... or do you actually have a suggestion?

 

 Yes, I have a suggestion; institute the sort of rational gun control we here in the UK and other countries have.

 

If a mentally ill person, a terrorist, anyone cannot simply buy a gun from a supermarket, then the number of mass shootings will dramatically increase.

 

Since the controls brought in after the 1987 Hungerford massacre, in  the UK we have had just two others; Dunblane in 1996 and Cumbria in 2010.

 

How many mass shootings have their been in the USA this year so far? 

 

Up to 20th March, 117! Resulting in 113 deaths and several hundreds wounded (Source)

 

3 mass shootings in 34 years or 117 in just three months! It doesn't take a genius to work out the reason for this discrepancy!

[Isaan sailor]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes, I have a suggestion; institute the sort of rational gun control we here in the UK and other countries have.

 

If a mentally ill person, a terrorist, anyone cannot simply buy a gun from a supermarket, then the number of mass shootings will dramatically increase.

 

Since the controls brought in after the 1987 Hungerford massacre, in  the UK we have had just two others; Dunblane in 1996 and Cumbria in 2010.

 

How many mass shootings have their been in the USA this year so far? 

 

Up to 20th March, 117! Resulting in 113 deaths and several hundreds wounded (Source)

 

3 mass shootings in 34 years or 117 in just three months! It doesn't take a genius to work out the reason for this discrepancy!

Illinois has among the strictest gun laws, including background checks of any state, in the USA.  Yet Chicago has remains among the highest crime counts with shootings and murders.

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

Illinois has among the strictest gun laws, including background checks of any state, in the USA.  Yet Chicago has remains among the highest crime counts with shootings and murders.

 

Yes, Chicago has one of the highest gun crime rates out of any US city. But it's one city out of a whole state.

 

According to the CDC, Illinois has the 16th lowest rate of gun deaths. How much better would that be if Chicago was taken out of the figures?

 

There is gun crime in the UK, no one can deny that. However; we're talking about mass shootings in this topic. The UK has very strict gun controls and we have suffered three mass shootings in 34 years. Although the controls vary from state to state, the US has far laxer gun control and has suffered 117 mass shootings in less than the last three months!

 

The connection is obvious; or should be.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Isaan sailor said:

Illinois has among the strictest gun laws, including background checks of any state, in the USA.  Yet Chicago has remains among the highest crime counts with shootings and murders.

Correct. Just goes to show that the gun laws must be much stricter than they are even in Illinois.

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Isaan sailor said:

Illinois has among the strictest gun laws, including background checks of any state, in the USA.  Yet Chicago has remains among the highest crime counts with shootings and murders.

 

Does Chicago still include 1940's in their statistics ?

[meechai]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

If a mentally ill person, a terrorist, anyone cannot simply buy a gun from a supermarket, then the number of mass shootings will dramatically increase.

 

Puleeze if you think that is possible then your the one with the mental problem

 

But then again a simpleton type response usually comes from.....folks who do not even live in the US but are fed so much BS on TV they instantly become experts

Edited March 30, 2021 by meechai

[Yellowtail]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:31 AM, Phoenix Rising said:

It's "realpolitik". The steady stream of black deaths by gun you rightly mention won't move the (mostly) white men and women into action, creating the necessary political momentum for systemic change.

Unfortunately, only wholesale slaughter of women and children seems to be able to do this for a brief period of time.

 

More than half the gun deaths are white people. 

 

[Isaan sailor]

14 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Correct. Just goes to show that the gun laws must be much stricter than they are even in Illinois.

Let’s begin by removing all the guns held by the bad guys.  Then, we might not need our guns anymore...

[7by7]

6 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Puleeze if you think that is possible then your the one with the mental problem

 

But then again a simpleton type response usually comes from.....folks who do not even live in the US but are fed so much BS on TV they instantly become experts

 

If you are such an expert, how do you explain 3 mass shootings over 34 years in the UK vs 117 in the US in less than 3 months?

 

Could it be because we have proper gun control on this side of the pond?

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Let’s begin by removing all the guns held by the bad guys.  Then, we might not need our guns anymore...

 

The argument that good guys need guns because bad guys have guns ignores one important question: where do the bad guys get their guns from?

 

Surprisingly, very few steal them. Most use apparently legitimate users to buy for them or buy for themselves from corrupt gun shops. Where do criminals really get their guns?

Quote

An official with the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Explosives (ATF) – the federal agency under the Department of Justice (DOJ) tasked with tracking and recovering trafficked weapons – told Fox News that “guns enter illegal commerce through one of three ways.”

The first is by private transactions in which guns bought at gun shows, flea markets or through private sales are later sold to prohibited persons.

The second, the official underscored, was by straw purchasers – individuals who buy guns from dealers and transfer them to prohibited persons.

The third category is theft from gun dealers and private citizens.

 

At the beginning of that article we see 

Quote

David Chianese, a correspondent at Law Enforcement Today, published author and former NYPD detective. “Stricter or additional gun laws do not reduce gun violence.”

But what he and those who oppose gun control choose to ignore is that if guns were not so readably available from gun dealers, gun shows, flea markets and through private sales then it would be considerably harder for criminals to obtain them.

 

Not impossible, as Gun crime: How do weapons appear on England's streets? shows. But considerably more difficult.

 

Resulting in far less gun crime and gun deaths in the UK. This is three years old; but I doubt much has changed. 11,004 Gun Murders in US vs. 26 (equiv. 130) in England Annually

Quote

The United States continues to be peculiar in handing out powerful magazine-fed firearms to almost anyone who wants one and not requiring background checks on private purchases even if these are made at gun shows or by persons with a history of mental illness. 80% of civilian-owned firearms world-wide are in the US, and only Yemen vaguely competes with us for rates of firearm ownership; Yemen is a violent mess with Shiite insurgencies, al-Qaeda taking over cities from time to time, tribal feuding, southern separatism and US drone strikes. And even it has fewer guns per person than the USA.