If You Are Not The Only Farang In The Family

[wolf359]

Well GuestHouse, I for one am shocked !! you of all people judging people in this way!! but honestly do you not think this has more to do with this Farang not meeting your obviously 'high standards'....... still not the first time is it.

[larvidchr]

It is not a sister, but a cusin, my Girlfriend recently wanted me to go to her village to attend a wedding , her cusin was marring a Farang, I have met him one time before and found out he is in human trafficing, and the cusin is mama san in his horehouse in europe, they are constant luring new naive girls to europe to work in his place, and they are stuck there and are not allowed to leave.

I told my Girlfriend that even if her cusin was family and even if he is the only other Farang in the family, I was not going, and that I did not like him or her cusin, my Girlfriend went and came back very impressed with the new house he has bought her cusin and the 1 million bath in dowry, I tried to explain that that money was stolen from Thai girls working in europe and only beeing paid a small % of their real earnings, I have a hard time trying to make her understand how wrong this is.

Kind regards

larvidchr, that's a tough position you've got yourself in there. I'm not sure what I'd do as human traffiking, along side paedophilia and drug pushing, is one of the things I wouldn't like to be turning a blind eye to. Problem is it's family and if you do something about it you are dead meat. If you do nothing you have to live with your concience. Hmmmm.......

Thanks for pointing that out Phil No truely, when you know youre only a small fish in a sea of big sharks, the options are extremely limited, sometimes you just have to let things slide.

Kind regards

I'm quite perturbed when you say "you have to let things slide". Please try to summon up the moral courage to at least report this guy and his wife to his embassy and give them whatever proof or suspicions you have and why. You could contact Interpol as well. You could do this anonymously so your girlfriend doesn't find out but I would have to question what sort of family you have married into that would let something like human trafficking be swept under the carpet. It is people like the falang guy and his wife that cause problems for falang men in Thailand and when the opportunity is presented to actually do something positive about it you want to turn a blind eye. I'm sorry but shame on you if you do nothing. If you haven't got the balls to do something, PM me with the names and details of these two relatives and I will most certainly do something about it. Forgive me for sounding so harsh but you already know how wrong what they're doing is. You need a kick in the ass to do something about it!!! Think about how much difference you could make in the lives of all those slaves, some of whom are probably children, if you just send a letter or make a phonecall.

Listen friend, after more than 20 years in law enforcement, dont you try to teach me about curage, moral or psycical, I have more of it in my thump than you poperly could ever dream of obtaining, I live in Pattaya and I could do nothing else but to sit at the police station reporting people all day if I wanted, I have come here to LOS and have retired, I have done my bit, and more than you will ever do, now I am tired and leave the save the world to younger and stronger people, if you truely belive that anonymity can be proceted here, and combatting international organised crime, alone in a foreign country riddeld with corupption on all levels, is without grave personal risk to your family and yourself, and If you burn to do something all you need is to, walk down town here in Pattaya visit the bars, use whatever brain you have, and open your eyes, talk to a few people and you can start your own little crusade, and you wont need me to point you in the right direction, make your relatives PM me if something happens to you, and I will bring flowers. I to am sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.

Good luck boy.

Edited May 19, 2007 by larvidchr

[RagingBrit]

Many of these comments confirm the farang social structure in Thailand.

The farang population here is not particularly friendly. Made up from loners who prefer to isolate themselves from other farangs. These include knackered old retirees firmly absorbed in their own worlds and younger or middle aged farangs who are of very dubious characters. These groups try and avoid socializing with others outside their clicks.

It is possible that some westerners dislike other farangs marrying into the same family because they feel it is a threat to their status as being the one & only in the Thai family hierarchy and also as an intrusion into what they think is their secluded space.

[qwertz]

Many of these comments confirm the farang social structure in Thailand.

The farang population here is not particularly friendly. Made up from loners who prefer to isolate themselves from other farangs. These include knackered old retirees firmly absorbed in their own worlds and younger or middle aged farangs who are of very dubious characters. These groups try and avoid socializing with others outside their clicks.

It is possible that some westerners dislike other farangs marrying into the same family because they feel it is a threat to their status as being the one & only in the Thai family hierarchy and also as an intrusion into what they think is their secluded space.

My estimate, it's about 50/50 among expats.

To be fair, there are lots of good people there too.

Unfortunately it's most often the good people who get scammed. The riff raff and wideheads seem to predominate because they're the loudest and most ostentatious.

These people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

LOS tries to cater for all types because tourism is the sole means of support for many Thais, so they adjust to these types and tend to think that all farangs are iffy.

The "knackered old retirees" you mention cause the least trouble IMO and shouldn't be counted as intrinsically undesirable.

BKK is full of them, eking out life on pensions that wouldn't pay their heating bills at home.

I think their worst offence is that they can't afford to spend much, poor buggers.

[madjbs]

You are right that the expat life is allot less friendly than places like Dubai and Hong Kong but I think the main reason is that in Thailand the majority of expat guys are with Thai girls which is different to other places where its not as easy to find local friends, girlfriends etc.. This naturally leads to expats sticking together a bit more in those places.

Edited May 19, 2007 by madjbs

[hill16]

It is not a sister, but a cusin, my Girlfriend recently wanted me to go to her village to attend a wedding , her cusin was marring a Farang, I have met him one time before and found out he is in human trafficing, and the cusin is mama san in his horehouse in europe, they are constant luring new naive girls to europe to work in his place, and they are stuck there and are not allowed to leave.

I told my Girlfriend that even if her cusin was family and even if he is the only other Farang in the family, I was not going, and that I did not like him or her cusin, my Girlfriend went and came back very impressed with the new house he has bought her cusin and the 1 million bath in dowry, I tried to explain that that money was stolen from Thai girls working in europe and only beeing paid a small % of their real earnings, I have a hard time trying to make her understand how wrong this is.

Kind regards

larvidchr, that's a tough position you've got yourself in there. I'm not sure what I'd do as human traffiking, along side paedophilia and drug pushing, is one of the things I wouldn't like to be turning a blind eye to. Problem is it's family and if you do something about it you are dead meat. If you do nothing you have to live with your concience. Hmmmm.......

Thanks for pointing that out Phil No truely, when you know youre only a small fish in a sea of big sharks, the options are extremely limited, sometimes you just have to let things slide.

Kind regards

I'm quite perturbed when you say "you have to let things slide". Please try to summon up the moral courage to at least report this guy and his wife to his embassy and give them whatever proof or suspicions you have and why. You could contact Interpol as well. You could do this anonymously so your girlfriend doesn't find out but I would have to question what sort of family you have married into that would let something like human trafficking be swept under the carpet. It is people like the falang guy and his wife that cause problems for falang men in Thailand and when the opportunity is presented to actually do something positive about it you want to turn a blind eye. I'm sorry but shame on you if you do nothing. If you haven't got the balls to do something, PM me with the names and details of these two relatives and I will most certainly do something about it. Forgive me for sounding so harsh but you already know how wrong what they're doing is. You need a kick in the ass to do something about it!!! Think about how much difference you could make in the lives of all those slaves, some of whom are probably children, if you just send a letter or make a phonecall.

Listen friend, after more than 20 years in law enforcement, dont you try to teach me about curage, moral or psycical, I have more of it in my thump than you poperly could ever dream of obtaining, I live in Pattaya and I could do nothing else but to sit at the police station reporting people all day if I wanted, I have come here to LOS and have retired, I have done my bit, and more than you will ever do, now I am tired and leave the save the world to younger and stronger people, if you truely belive that anonymity can be proceted here, and combatting international organised crime, alone in a foreign country riddeld with corupption on all levels, is without grave personal risk to your family and yourself, and If you burn to do something all you need is to, walk down town here in Pattaya visit the bars, use whatever brain you have, and open your eyes, talk to a few people and you can start your own little crusade, and you wont need me to point you in the right direction, make your relatives PM me if something happens to you, and I will bring flowers. I to am sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.

Good luck boy.

I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat with you but you'd think that after 20 years in law enforcement that you would be able to spell properly. Perhaps you were too busy exhibiting your moral and physical courage stopping people for traffic offences. Anyhow, I am aware of the corruption in Thailand so that's why I used my brains and suggested contacting the guy's Embassy anonymously since his crimes are being committed in Europe and European authorities would be far more interested in doing something about it. Same as contacting an Embassy when you suspect a foreigner of being engaged in paedophilia in Thailand. You would think a 20 year veteran of law enforcement would at least do that without peeing in his pants.

Good luck to you and to your new 'family' who enjoy the proceeds of international organised crime. I hope your undoubted marvellous reputation as a law enforcement officer of 20 years is never tarnished by association with these people.

I hope you sleep easy, boy!!!

PS Keep your flowers for the families of the young girls who are enslaved, beaten, raped and even killed by your new acquaintances.

[Neeranam]

Same as contacting an Embassy when you suspect a foreigner of being engaged in paedophilia in Thailand. You would think a 20 year veteran of law enforcement would at least do that without peeing in his pants.

Of course a 20 year old veteran of law enforcement would.

[qwertz]

Hill16, the OP is obviously wrestling with this situation and was looking for helpful input before deciding on a course of action.

Your assumptions are hardly going to help him do that.

The fact that he posted at all should be an indication that he wants to do something.

Why not lighten up a little?

[hill16]

Hill16, the OP is obviously wrestling with this situation and was looking for helpful input before deciding on a course of action.

Your assumptions are hardly going to help him do that.

The fact that he posted at all should be an indication that he wants to do something.

Why not lighten up a little?

With respect qwertz, a 20 year law enforcement veteran would not have to think about what to do. Every bone in his body would urge him not "to let things slide". I apologised in my first reply for being harsh but given the gravity of what he knows I don't really think this is something that I personally can lighten up on.

Sorry to anyone who finds my views on this subject overly serious.

[Robski]

Seems to be a lot of judging of character in this thread, people saying others are low class and low life. I have found that usually those who feel the need to look down upon others are those with something to hide themselves.

It is possible that some westerners dislike other farangs marrying into the same family because they feel it is a threat to their status as being the one & only in the Thai family hierarchy and also as an intrusion into what they think is their secluded space.

Exactly.

[Robski]

Hill16, the OP is obviously wrestling with this situation and was looking for helpful input before deciding on a course of action.

That is one of the funniest comments I have ever seen on Thaivisa.

[qwertz]

I try to please, Robski.5555555555555555

[keebone]

Maybe if he was a Bavarian things would be different but he's from the former East Germany and is a Saxon by blood I believe and I'm an Anglo Saxon so it could be in our genes to get along.

neither the Saxons nor the Angles who invaded England had any ethnic relation with the population of (formerly east german state) Saxony but hailed from the northern part of the west german state "Lower Saxony".

please PM me and attach 10 Baht for this history lesson

He is not from the former East German state of Saxony but from Saxony Anhalt which was an area conquered and settled by the ancient Saxons around about the same time another part of the tribe set off in their boats for what would become England so I'm led to believe.

No need to send 10 baht, I'll give you that 1 for free

[qwertz]

Don't forget the Frisians who taught us ship building.

[kiakaha]

I would be extremely skeptical about the true values of the relationship if the family has an agenda/strategy of marrying farangs.

[GuestHouse]

Some great responses here, and so varied too.

I don't think I expected anyone to recount criminality in their BiL, but then perhaps we should not be surprised, a glance at the local Thai press gives ample evidence that Thailand does attract criminals from overseas.

Anyway it is interesting to see this thought I had that we might view our Farang BiL in a different way that our Thai family do. That after all was the basis of my question.

To spell that out "Thais are suffer from similar misconceptions in reading us as we do them"

About this Judgmental Thing

A few here have point this out as being a failing. Each to their view.

I take the view that the very best any of us can do is to judge people as we find them.

I have met very few people who manage even that. We all of us make short cut judgments of people and situations on a daily even moment to moment basis.

The question I ask in the OP is about Judgment and the misreading that go between Thai and Farang Cultures.

The evidence is here, not from me, from the posters who have responded above that Thais make some very strange choices with respect to choosing a Farang partner, the reverse is inevitably true.

About Social Distinctions

They exist.

They are a significant issue in human relationships.

We all of us play the game, whether willingly or not.

And while I did not want the post to be about social distinction, social distinction does play a part in the perception.

So for example, Your Thai SiL may be taken in by a pretence of her Farang husband boyfriend, perhaps claiming to be something he is not, while you as a Farang see right through because you are able to read things about the Farang that Thais cannot,

This then demonstrates that while people may not like ‘judgement’ and ‘social distinction’ they are part of social reaction. If you don’t know the rules you will make mistakes,

It is these misunderstandings and mistakes that my OP relies on.

[Robski]

Don't forget the Frisians who taught us ship building.

And gave us black and white cows.

[britmaveric]

Seems to me its a jealousy issue more than anything - competition between some farangs in the same family. Concentrate on your own relationship because in the end the rest has nought to do with you.

[larvidchr]

I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat with you but you'd think that after 20 years in law enforcement that you would be able to spell properly. Perhaps you were too busy exhibiting your moral and physical courage stopping people for traffic offences. Anyhow, I am aware of the corruption in Thailand so that's why I used my brains and suggested contacting the guy's Embassy anonymously since his crimes are being committed in Europe and European authorities would be far more interested in doing something about it. Same as contacting an Embassy when you suspect a foreigner of being engaged in paedophilia in Thailand. You would think a 20 year veteran of law enforcement would at least do that without peeing in his pants.

Good luck to you and to your new 'family' who enjoy the proceeds of international organised crime. I hope your undoubted marvellous reputation as a law enforcement officer of 20 years is never tarnished by association with these people.

I hope you sleep easy, boy!!!

PS Keep your flowers for the families of the young girls who are enslaved, beaten, raped and even killed by your new acquaintances.

You sort of started the "tit-for-tat" I am not english, and allthough not perfect i do a pretty good job of speaking and writing it anyway, one of the 4 laungages i speak besides my native tung.

I will spell this out for you, in this guys home country i know the police allready know what he is doing, they cant however prove that he is breaking the law , like hundreds of others doing the same as him, one of the reasons they cant do that is that the girls refuse to testify, they do that out of fear what might happen to their family back home, a very real fear. If I wantet to contact his embassy I would have to produce more that his home country police have been able to find out, I could not do that without a fullblown investigation beeing done here in Thailand, some Thai officials are undoubtely allso involved in the traffic, so this would be rather complicated, if at all possible without these guys finding out what was going down, now, i dont pee my pants for anybody anywhere, but I do have family to consider and i also have to consider the collateral damage while the perps try to find out what was happening(the girls and their familys), there is human beeings involved and pros and cons have to be calculated, not to mention the fact that i am retired, If these things was so simple to deal with they would have been dealt with a long time ago, but that is not the way organised crime and the fight against same works in the real world, and no matter how much somebody burns for justice it is a slow diffucult and painfull proces to fight organised crime, if you think that retired law enforcement officers around the world just snap their fingers and all injustice around them is gone, you live in fantasi land.

Prostitution in Europe is not illegal, what is illegal is the handing over of money from the girls to the pimps, and if the girls are in the country illegal, these things are extremely difficult to prove and there is ways around for the criminals so they operate allmost legal, ie the girls is married proforma in an other european country than the one they work in, the handing over of money is disguised as rent and other services, so to get a ring of these human trafficers convicted often takes many month of intense investigation with phonetabs and other forms of clandestine investigation.

You write that European countries is more interested in getting to grips with this problem, this is unfortunately not true, and not a lot of recurces is allocated this form of crime compared to other forms, this is proven by the thousands and thousands of foreign prostitutes now operating in europe, from Letland, Russia, Thailand, Nigeria aso.

Now to address your more personal remarks, I do not enjoy the proceeds of anything from some distant Thai relatives, nor do I need to, or want to, I do have a marvelous reputation in my country, part of it fighting organised crime, I somtimes have trouble sleeping because of things I have witnessed, I allso have some trouble with some of the multiple injuries i have recived in the line of duty. But apart from that I am okay.

I know it must be hard for some to sit and watch the horrors going on around them, and they have a strong wish to get somebody to do deal with it for them, but in this case I must dissapoint you, I am retired.

As i told you in an previus post, if you wish to get stuck in, by all means do so, and show us all what a real hero is made off, I wish you luck.

[madjbs]

Good answer, while it maybe hard to stand and watch the reality is how you state it, any kind of involvement of the authorities would quickly see the end in whoever was the suspected snitch. Is it worth risking your families life over something that probably could never result in convictions or even something that wouldnt be seriously investigated?

Edited May 19, 2007 by madjbs

[qwertz]

Seems to me its a jealousy issue more than anything - competition between some farangs in the same family. Concentrate on your own relationship because in the end the rest has nought to do with you.

Good point Brit. That's exactly what a lot of people don't do.

[hill16]

I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat with you but you'd think that after 20 years in law enforcement that you would be able to spell properly. Perhaps you were too busy exhibiting your moral and physical courage stopping people for traffic offences. Anyhow, I am aware of the corruption in Thailand so that's why I used my brains and suggested contacting the guy's Embassy anonymously since his crimes are being committed in Europe and European authorities would be far more interested in doing something about it. Same as contacting an Embassy when you suspect a foreigner of being engaged in paedophilia in Thailand. You would think a 20 year veteran of law enforcement would at least do that without peeing in his pants.

Good luck to you and to your new 'family' who enjoy the proceeds of international organised crime. I hope your undoubted marvellous reputation as a law enforcement officer of 20 years is never tarnished by association with these people.

I hope you sleep easy, boy!!!

PS Keep your flowers for the families of the young girls who are enslaved, beaten, raped and even killed by your new acquaintances.

You sort of started the "tit-for-tat" I am not english, and allthough not perfect i do a pretty good job of speaking and writing it anyway, one of the 4 laungages i speak besides my native tung.

I will spell this out for you, in this guys home country i know the police allready know what he is doing, they cant however prove that he is breaking the law , like hundreds of others doing the same as him, one of the reasons they cant do that is that the girls refuse to testify, they do that out of fear what might happen to their family back home, a very real fear. If I wantet to contact his embassy I would have to produce more that his home country police have been able to find out, I could not do that without a fullblown investigation beeing done here in Thailand, some Thai officials are undoubtely allso involved in the traffic, so this would be rather complicated, if at all possible without these guys finding out what was going down, now, i dont pee my pants for anybody anywhere, but I do have family to consider and i also have to consider the collateral damage while the perps try to find out what was happening(the girls and their familys), there is human beeings involved and pros and cons have to be calculated, not to mention the fact that i am retired, If these things was so simple to deal with they would have been dealt with a long time ago, but that is not the way organised crime and the fight against same works in the real world, and no matter how much somebody burns for justice it is a slow diffucult and painfull proces to fight organised crime, if you think that retired law enforcement officers around the world just snap their fingers and all injustice around them is gone, you live in fantasi land.

Prostitution in Europe is not illegal, what is illegal is the handing over of money from the girls to the pimps, and if the girls are in the country illegal, these things are extremely difficult to prove and there is ways around for the criminals so they operate allmost legal, ie the girls is married proforma in an other european country than the one they work in, the handing over of money is disguised as rent and other services, so to get a ring of these human trafficers convicted often takes many month of intense investigation with phonetabs and other forms of clandestine investigation.

You write that European countries is more interested in getting to grips with this problem, this is unfortunately not true, and not a lot of recurces is allocated this form of crime compared to other forms, this is proven by the thousands and thousands of foreign prostitutes now operating in europe, from Letland, Russia, Thailand, Nigeria aso.

Now to address your more personal remarks, I do not enjoy the proceeds of anything from some distant Thai relatives, nor do I need to, or want to, I do have a marvelous reputation in my country, part of it fighting organised crime, I somtimes have trouble sleeping because of things I have witnessed, I allso have some trouble with some of the multiple injuries i have recived in the line of duty. But apart from that I am okay.

I know it must be hard for some to sit and watch the horrors going on around them, and they have a strong wish to get somebody to do deal with it for them, but in this case I must dissapoint you, I am retired.

As i told you in an previus post, if you wish to get stuck in, by all means do so, and show us all what a real hero is made off, I wish you luck.

Again, profusest apologies to you, my friend, but the last time I checked prostitution in Europe is not LEGAL. Nor is human trafficking!!!! At least not in my country. I'm sorry if you have been injured in the line of duty but that that does not detract from your cowardice in writing on this forum proclaiming your record as a Law Enforcement agent who does nothing in the face of such appalling crimes.

I didn't say that you enjoyed the proceeds of international crime. You said that your new family does.

On that note, I'm going to watch a dvd of Walter Mitty. I think it's the one where he thought he was a policeman...

Sleep well larvidchr while the young Thai girls get a beating in Europe somewhere far away from you!

[endure]

larvidchr describes exactly the law in the UK. Prostitution is not illegal but streetwalking and living off immoral earnings are. Europe's a big place with lots of different laws.

I do hope this thread isn't going to descend into personal abuse. It wouldn't be wise.

[qwertz]

Hill16 and larvichr, I not sure what you two are disagreeing about since you're both partly right. On the one hand, as L so rightly says, these girls daren't talk for fear of retribution. On the other hand, the OP would put himself and his family at risk. I work as a police interpreter in Germany and these girls have to go into a witness protection programme once they talk. The gangs who run them are absolutely ruthless and if I were the OP I would stay well out of it because they know where he lives.

[hill16]

larvidchr describes exactly the law in the UK. Prostitution is not illegal but streetwalking and living off immoral earnings are. Europe's a big place with lots of different laws.

I do hope this thread isn't going to descend into personal abuse. It wouldn't be wise.

Hill16 and larvichr, I not sure what you two are disagreeing about since you're both partly right. On the one hand, as L so rightly says, these girls daren't talk for fear of retribution. On the other hand, the OP would put himself and his family at risk. I work as a police interpreter in Germany and these girls have to go into a witness protection programme once they talk. The gangs who run them are absolutely ruthless and if I were the OP I would stay well out of it because they know where he lives.

You're right, Europe is a big place endure. This thread is finished as far as I'm concerned. I have made my point. See ya soon.

PS I never suggested bringing the girls involved into this mess. I only asked that somebody inform the authorities of the relevant country what is happening and who may be involved.

[Nebukanezar]

Mine has a aunt in her late 40's married to a American guy older than my dad and looks every bit of it. However I never met him in person everyone says he's Jai Dee

Edited May 19, 2007 by Nebukanezar

[larvidchr]

but the last time I checked prostitution in Europe is not LEGAL.

The only west European country I know of where prostitution is illegal is Sweden, and that is a relative new law (few years) but in the UK. Norway, Denmark, Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Spain and Itali prostitution is legal in one form or other, and I should think that covers the major countries in western Europe.

[hill16]

Perhaps I should have stated that HUMAN TRAFFICKING, which you know all about given your family circumstances, is illegal.

By the way, there are 27 countries in the EU and a population of 490 million so just forget about the other 19 if you like. Sure why not? They're not major countries.

C u next Tuesday.

[Tod Daniels]

hill16; you would do good to follow your own advice, which if you've forgotten was;

"Hi guys,

Can we please stay on track and deal with the original poster's query?

Thanks."

I see yet another possibly interesting post on the T/V Forum straying far a field. It seems to be happening all too often anymore..

Hill16; Go join a charity, save the vegan whales, or beat a drum about the inhumanity of it all, but let's get back on the topic of this thread if we can.

[larvidchr]

Perhaps I should have stated that HUMAN TRAFFICKING, which you know all about given your family circumstances, is illegal.

By the way, there are 27 countries in the EU and a population of 490 million so just forget about the other 19 if you like. Sure why not? They're not major countries.

C u next Tuesday.

Okay I should have added Finland, Austria, Switzerland and pourtugal this then should satisfi you as the major countries of Western europe,

Anyway i give up on you, you made your point as you write. I proved mine, and will end my contribution to this thread.

Regards