Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[asiaexpat]

From Revenue Department:

Taxpayers are classified into resident and non-resident. Resident means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

Income earned by residents and brought into Thailand in the same tax year is taxable.

An good analogy might be if I take a 2 litre container and pour one litre of water into it. The next year I add another litre of water. A few months later I pour one cup out of the container and bring it to Thailand. Which year does my cup of water come from?

Your analogy is called fungible funds. Fungible funds can be difficult to prove were not earned in the asme year if one had to do so. I seriously doubt the Thai Revenue would even ask, but to prevent any confusion, I just keep several savings accounts and transfer funds to Thailand only from the long term savings. This is probably overkill, but keeps me 100% within the law.

[Arkady]

From Revenue Department:

Taxpayers are classified into resident and non-resident. Resident means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

Income earned by residents and brought into Thailand in the same tax year is taxable.

The only difference in treatment in this area is in outward remittance. Thais can make outward remittance for qualifying overseas investments, supporting children or parents studying or living overseas. Foreigners can remit out money they have earned in Thailand from salary or investment. Everyone can remit money to pay for goods or services with an invoice. I think limits of outward remittances that don't need any documentation have been raised but I am not sure how much.

I have never heard of anyone being asked to prove that an inward remittance was earned at least 12 months earlier, so as to be tax exempt. It is too hard to enforce because it is not in the nation's interest to discourage inward remittances by having draconian checks. If you choose not to declare income remitted to Thailand within 12 months of arising on your PND90 tax return, there seems to be no effort to collect this. Getting serious on this would be very inconvenient for a lot of wealthy and influential Thais, so will probably not happen any time soon.

[timmuhonen]

hi all.

what are the rules to apply citizenship nowadays?

cheers

[chrisbinbkk99]

hi all.

what are the rules to apply citizenship nowadays?

 

cheers

Same old married to Thai 3 years stay with paid up tax ect...

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NewlyMintedThai]

Or not married to Thai, PR five years.

[skyaslimit]

I am planning to proceed further after receiving my PR and trying to collect as much information I can,

PR was issued from CW Bangkok

Red Police Book from Nakhon Ratchsima

Blue Thabian Baan From Nakhon Ratchsima

Work Permit From Bangkok

Although I have registered my self in Nakhon Ratchsima but I am living and working in Bangkok, if I decide to apply for citizenship where it will be? Bangkok or Nakhon Ratchsima?

[GarryP]

I would say that it depends on where you are registered according to your Blue Thabian Baan (blue book). But as you are living in Bangkok, there would be no harm in popping down to Special Branch to confirm this. They are quite friendly and helpful.

As Tamvine notes in the other thread, it would probably be much easier to do in Bangkok, but then it would depend on whether there is a blue book for you to enter here. You cannot transfer the blue book to another place as the book is tied to the building/home not the individual. As such, you would need to transfer to someone else's blue book in BKK, unless you own a condo here, in which case you could get a book for the condo and enter that one.

FYI not all owners of buildings can be bothered to record their tenants in their blue books. A problem I faced until I bought a home in my son's name.

[skyaslimit]

I would say that it depends on where you are registered according to your Blue Thabian Baan (blue book). But as you are living in Bangkok, there would be no harm in popping down to Special Branch to confirm this. They are quite friendly and helpful.

As Tamvine notes in the other thread, it would probably be much easier to do in Bangkok, but then it would depend on whether there is a blue book for you to enter here. You cannot transfer the blue book to another place as the book is tied to the building/home not the individual. As such, you would need to transfer to someone else's blue book in BKK, unless you own a condo here, in which case you could get a book for the condo and enter that one.

FYI not all owners of buildings can be bothered to record their tenants in their blue books. A problem I faced until I bought a home in my son's name.

Thanks Garry, the officers in my NR police station are very friendly, but I was the first case they handled in their jurisdiction when I applied for my Red book, it was really painful procedure, I drive them around myself for three consecutive days for the search of Red book approximately 800 km in my own car, just because they don't have one at the PS. but the good thing is, now the whole district office and the police station know me by my name and regard me as their own when ever I visit my home in NR.

I was just wondering if I apply from NR it may took ages to proceed the application.

[GarryP]

I would say that it depends on where you are registered according to your Blue Thabian Baan (blue book). But as you are living in Bangkok, there would be no harm in popping down to Special Branch to confirm this. They are quite friendly and helpful.

As Tamvine notes in the other thread, it would probably be much easier to do in Bangkok, but then it would depend on whether there is a blue book for you to enter here. You cannot transfer the blue book to another place as the book is tied to the building/home not the individual. As such, you would need to transfer to someone else's blue book in BKK, unless you own a condo here, in which case you could get a book for the condo and enter that one.

FYI not all owners of buildings can be bothered to record their tenants in their blue books. A problem I faced until I bought a home in my son's name.

Thanks Garry, the officers in my NR police station are very friendly, but I was the first case they handled in their jurisdiction when I applied for my Red book, it was really painful procedure, I drive them around myself for three consecutive days for the search of Red book approximately 800 km in my own car, just because they don't have one at the PS. but the good thing is, now the whole district office and the police station know me by my name and regard me as their own when ever I visit my home in NR.

I was just wondering if I apply from NR it may took ages to proceed the application.

It would all depend on how accustomed they are to the whole citizenship procedure, but it does not sound promising. I would think that Bangkok would be the better option but then you have the blue book thingy to sort out. Would the red book be an issue? I don't know.

I applied in Bangkok, but based on marriage, i.e. no PR, and the actual application procedure was not complicated, but the amount of documents and running around you need to do to get them is quite onerous. But then with your previous experience with your red book, it should be a walk in the park for you.

[Arkady]

I am planning to proceed further after receiving my PR and trying to collect as much information I can,

PR was issued from CW Bangkok

Red Police Book from Nakhon Ratchsima

Blue Thabian Baan From Nakhon Ratchsima

Work Permit From Bangkok

Although I have registered my self in Nakhon Ratchsima but I am living and working in Bangkok, if I decide to apply for citizenship where it will be? Bangkok or Nakhon Ratchsima?

Definitely you have to apply in NR, if your tabian baan is there. I would think this would be a high risk strategy and not very convenient either, if you are actually living and working in Bkk and NR is just your week end place. It is a complex process and the only dedicated Special Branch nationality section is in Bangkok. Provincial Special Branch offices that don't process many applications might point blank refuse to do it. If they take it on, they will either have to constantly refer to Bangkok to find out what they are supposed to do, or worse still, will just act on their own intuition of how they imagine it should be done. This subjects you to a significant possibility that your application will be flawed and the Interior Ministry, some years later when they get around to opening your file, will either send your file back to Special Branch for correction, resulting in months of delays, or reject you completely, meaning you will have to start from scratch again. Even Bangkok sometimes makes mistakes of this type. In addition you will find you get calls from time to time asking you to come in to the Special Branch office for something which might be inconvenient, if you have to go to NR during your working week. I am sure that Special Branch in Bangkok would also advise you to change your residence to Bangkok but why not ask them?

[Oasis]

I would say that it depends on where you are registered according to your Blue Thabian Baan (blue book). But as you are living in Bangkok, there would be no harm in popping down to Special Branch to confirm this. They are quite friendly and helpful.

As Tamvine notes in the other thread, it would probably be much easier to do in Bangkok, but then it would depend on whether there is a blue book for you to enter here. You cannot transfer the blue book to another place as the book is tied to the building/home not the individual. As such, you would need to transfer to someone else's blue book in BKK, unless you own a condo here, in which case you could get a book for the condo and enter that one.

FYI not all owners of buildings can be bothered to record their tenants in their blue books. A problem I faced until I bought a home in my son's name.

Thanks Garry, the officers in my NR police station are very friendly, but I was the first case they handled in their jurisdiction when I applied for my Red book, it was really painful procedure, I drive them around myself for three consecutive days for the search of Red book approximately 800 km in my own car, just because they don't have one at the PS. but the good thing is, now the whole district office and the police station know me by my name and regard me as their own when ever I visit my home in NR.

I was just wondering if I apply from NR it may took ages to proceed the application.

Bangkok would be the better choice, friendly and helpful special branch officials.

Oasis

[samran]

So, wife's letter has arrived informing of final MOI interview next month.

[GarryP]

So, wife's letter has arrived informing of final MOI interview next month.

Congratulations. If I recall correctly, wasn't your wife called to an interview before but it had to be postponed as you were overseas or am I mixing you up with someone else?

I am still waiting for the letter but my application has only been with the MOI for just over a year.

[samran]

So, wife's letter has arrived informing of final MOI interview next month.

Congratulations. If I recall correctly, wasn't your wife called to an interview before but it had to be postponed as you were overseas or am I mixing you up with someone else?

I am still waiting for the letter but my application has only been with the MOI for just over a year.

Many thanks!

Thats right. We got it back in the mix a month or so ago, and the MOI promised us they'd put it at the top of the pile, and they were as good as their word.

So while we've been in the queue since 2008, the truth is that taking away that enforced gap, we would have been 2.5 to 3 years between applying and getting to this stage.

Edited October 30, 2013 by samran

[Arkady]

Quite a few applicants have received a call from the MOI this year asking them to bring along their old work permits in the case that they changed jobs within the three year period immediately prior to application. This seems to happen when you are about to be called for interview and officials are checking that you are properly qualified. The problem appears to stem from the fact that SB is or was in the habit of not including copies of the old work permits in the pile of documents. In my case I brought along several copies of the old work permit but was told that wasn't necessary as the MOI was only interested in the current one. In fact the MOI checks in detail to ensure your tax receipts were in order and that you had valid work permits covering the entirety of that critical three year period. As long as you can present the original work permit or a copy, you will be fine but this all seems unnecessary and the MOI will also scrutinise your existing work permit, so you had better have one. (Bear in mind that the law and ministerial regulations require you to continue in employment and earning the minimum salary throughout the entire process and you can be asked for an up-to-date set of tax receipts and employment letter a couple of years after your original application, if they decide to re-check something or SB has made a minor error in your covering letter which they will have to correct, e.g. a reference to the wrong section of the Act.)

For anyone who is planning to apply and changes jobs within the three year period, be sure to hang on to you old work permit (since 2008 it has been your property and you can demand to retain it) or at least make sure you have a copy before you allow some one to cancel it. It is also worth trying to get SB to include a copy in the package, if they are still not doing that automatically. I have heard of at least one applicant who waited patiently in the queue to be called for interview, only to be told he was ineligible because he was unable to produce a copy of his old work permit. That means applying again from scratch, if you are still interested. So don't let this happen to you.

[samran]

Quite a few applicants, including myself, have received a call from the MOI rhia YWe asking them to bring along their old work permits in the case that they changed jobs within the three year period immediately prior to application. This seems to happen when you are about to be called for interview and officials are checking that you are properly qualified. The problem appears to stem from the fact that SB is or was in the habit of not including copies of the old work permits in the pile of documents. In my case I brought along several copies of the old work permit but was told that wasn't necessary as the MOI was only interested in the current one. In fact the MOI checks in detail to ensure your tax receipts were in order and that you had valid work permits during that critical three year period. As long as you can present the original work permit or a copy, you will be fine but this all seems unnecessary and the MOI will also scrutinise your existing work permit, so you had better have one.

For anyone who is planning to apply and changes jobs within the three year period, be sure to hang on to you old work permit (since 2008 it has been your property and you can demand to retain it) or at least make sure you have a copy before you allow some one to cancel it. It is also worth trying to get SB to include a copy in the package, if they are still not doing that automatically. I have heard of at least one applicant who waited patiently in the queue to be called for interview, only to be told he was ineligible because he was unable to produce a copy of his old work permit.

SB have made mentioned a few times now that I needed to show an updated tax payment. Given I haven't been tax resident in Thailand and I hadn't had them they were sort of okayish with that answer, but said that I'd need a receipt for the 2013 year when we get past the interview stage. Edited October 30, 2013 by samran

[Arkady]

SB have made mentioned a few times now that I needed to show an updated tax payment. Given I haven't been tax resident in Thailand and I hadn't had them they were sort of okayish with that answer, but said that I'd need a receipt for the 2013 year when we get past the interview stage.

Interesting. I don't think this is routine but they probably wanted it because they knew you had been abroad and deferred the interview date, so they need to verify that you are now back and have an income in Thailand that meets the minimum requirements. I suspect the break in residence in Thailand is only allowed for foreign wives of Thai citizens applying under Section 9, although other applicants can certainly defer the interview a couple of times due to short trips abroad, if they notify the MOI in writing.

The approach is very different to permanent residence applications where they only look at the snapshot of your circumstances on application and you are free to retire or become unemployed after that, however long the process takes.

[samran]

SB have made mentioned a few times now that I needed to show an updated tax payment. Given I haven't been tax resident in Thailand and I hadn't had them they were sort of okayish with that answer, but said that I'd need a receipt for the 2013 year when we get past the interview stage.

Interesting. I don't think this is routine but they probably wanted it because they knew you had been abroad and deferred the interview date, so they need to verify that you are now back and have an income in Thailand that meets the minimum requirements. I suspect the break in residence in Thailand is only allowed for foreign wives of Thai citizens applying under Section 9, although other applicants can certainly defer the interview a couple of times due to short trips abroad, if they notify the MOI in writing.

The approach is very different to permanent residence applications where they only look at the snapshot of your circumstances on application and you are free to retire or become unemployed after that, however long the process takes.

Fortunately I have a clear history of thai withholding tax payments which I can show next week for 2013. Though that tax will be offset against my Australian income tax liabilities given my tax residence there, it is nevertheless thai tax paid.

As I said early in the piece, this is all about me, not my wife!

[Arkady]

SB have made mentioned a few times now that I needed to show an updated tax payment. Given I haven't been tax resident in Thailand and I hadn't had them they were sort of okayish with that answer, but said that I'd need a receipt for the 2013 year when we get past the interview stage.

Interesting. I don't think this is routine but they probably wanted it because they knew you had been abroad and deferred the interview date, so they need to verify that you are now back and have an income in Thailand that meets the minimum requirements. I suspect the break in residence in Thailand is only allowed for foreign wives of Thai citizens applying under Section 9, although other applicants can certainly defer the interview a couple of times due to short trips abroad, if they notify the MOI in writing.

The approach is very different to permanent residence applications where they only look at the snapshot of your circumstances on application and you are free to retire or become unemployed after that, however long the process takes.

Fortunately I have a clear history of thai withholding tax payments which I can show next week for 2013. Though that tax will be offset against my Australian income tax liabilities given my tax residence there, it is nevertheless thai tax paid.

As I said early in the piece, this is all about me, not my wife!

Yes, they aren't interested in the wife's income and you only need to show tax receipts for a minimum of 15k a month, I believe.

[Oasis]

How many applicants having an interview next week at MOI? As interview is being held next week that include me and hope other applicants too.

Oasis

[samran]

How many applicants having an interview next week at MOI? As interview is being held next week that include me and hope other applicants too.

Oasis

So you received your letter too?

[Oasis]

How many applicants having an interview next week at MOI? As interview is being held next week that include me and hope other applicants too.

Oasis

So you received your letter too?

Yes, I have got, meet you there Samran if possible

Oasis

[samran]

How many applicants having an interview next week at MOI? As interview is being held next week that include me and hope other applicants too.

Oasis

So you received your letter too?

Yes, I have got, meet you there Samran if possible

Oasis

Well done and all the best next week.

[Oasis]

How many applicants having an interview next week at MOI? As interview is being held next week that include me and hope other applicants too.

Oasis

So you received your letter too?

Yes, I have got, meet you there Samran if possible

Oasis

Well done and all the best next week.

Thanks, Samran, same to you

[GarryP]

Out of interest, Oasis, when did you apply?

[Oasis]

Out of interest, Oasis, when did you apply?

Dear GarryP,

I applied in mid 2009.

Oasis

[GarryP]

Out of interest, Oasis, when did you apply?

Dear GarryP,

I applied in mid 2009.

Oasis

So it looks like I am in for the long haul. I applied in mid 2012, and my application was forwarded to the MOI in the last quarter of the same year. I will be dropping in to the MOI very soon just to see where my application lies in the scheme of things.

[aidenai]

Best of luck next week, Samran and Oasis.

[Arkady]

How many applicants having an interview next week at MOI? As interview is being held next week that include me and hope other applicants too.

Oasis

Since statistically only about 5% or so of applicants are farangs and they now interview only 20-30 in a batch the chances of more than two followers of this thread being in the same batch are very low. So I guess it will be just the two of you (or three including Samran's missus).

Good luck to both.

[Oasis]

_{Thanks, Arkady and Aidenai for your wishes.}

_Oasis