Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[samran]

Out of interest, Oasis, when did you apply?

Dear GarryP,

I applied in mid 2009.

Oasis

So it looks like I am in for the long haul. I applied in mid 2012, and my application was forwarded to the MOI in the last quarter of the same year. I will be dropping in to the MOI very soon just to see where my application lies in the scheme of things.

I guess at this point it is one of those 'set and forget' things now, that is certainly the way we treated it. So much so, that we weren't really 'prepared' for the phone call notifying us. My wife is now doing intense remedial Thai lessons over the next 4 days to brush up on her Thai.

Better now then next month though. My wife is due mid December!

[Arkady]

Another worthwhile tip is to ensure that applicants inform Special Branch (and the MOI, if appropriate) of any changes of contact details, residence and work. The MOI is quite likely to call you on your mobile out of the blue, specially when you are getting to the top of the interview queue, and they have been known to call office numbers too. Although this seems not to be norm at the present time, make sure people in the office, who are likely to answer the phone and, of course, your boss know about your application. Letters have to be sent to the address on your tabian baan. So make sure you change your tabian baan, if you move, and let them have a copy.

[samran]

Another worthwhile tip is to ensure that applicants inform Special Branch (and the MOI, if appropriate) of any changes of contact details, residence and work. The MOI is quite likely to call you on your mobile out of the blue, specially when you are getting to the top of the interview queue, and they have been known to call office numbers too. Although this seems not to be norm at the present time, make sure people in the office, who are likely to answer the phone and, of course, your boss know about your application. Letters have to be sent to the address on your tabian baan. So make sure you change your tabian baan, if you move, and let them have a copy.

Indeed, we were called out of the blue by SB telling us of the meeting and then asking us if we wanted the letter posted or if I wanted to pick it up. Luckily I picked it up, it was addressed to our old address (which we had notified of changing) and even when picking it up, it left us with only 6 days notice.

[samran]

So, my wife (with me in tow) had the interview at MoI this morning. The hardest thing about it? Finding a car park at the MOI…

We arrived at 8.45am and were told to pre-register for the 9.30am start, when the committee would meet and get down to business.

Went up to the narrow hallways of the top floor of one of the MOI buildings and was greeted with a line of about 15 of the 60 people who were being interviewed that day. Line quickly moved along though we were initially discouraged when others were told that their interviews wouldn’t be till the PM. We assumed this was because we were the stragglers and were now due to sit in a boring government office hallway till 4pm.

Fortunately for us, MoI were as good as their word, they said they had put us at the top of the pile for the next meeting when we restarted the application a month ago, having already allocated my wife the first interview for the day. Things were looking up.

Down one level to the floor which housed the conference room and we waited outside while the committee members arrived and they officially kicked off their meeting. People were put into order as to meeting schedule. Most of the people there were from the subcontinent. I noticed one German/Austrian fellow. A few what must have been Koreans and perhaps a few central Asians. More than a few people had kids in tow, so there must be a few family naturalisations. All in all, I reckon I saw about 30 or 40 of the 60 people who I was told being interviewed that day.

A photographer turned up outside and asked us to pose for photo of me and my wife together in the hallway, and we waited a moment longer before being invited in.

The conference room was as other posters have described, a bog standard govt conference room, microphones on each desk and about a dozen or so in the room. Not exactly relaxed, but friendly enough and polite. We wai-ed everyone and my wife started on her pre-rehearsed introduction, of which she only needed to give about a minutes worth of (name, age, citizenship, education, current occupation) before they said, ‘that’s fine’ and asked me to introduce myself.

Again, same spiel from me, and the Chair asked the if anyone had any questions. Initial silence (I noticed one guy concentrating shoving into his mouth on a piece of cake which had come with his coffee) until one asked me after a few seconds of silence if either of my parents were Thai citizens (to which I told them my mother was).

They then asked me if I was in the same job as I was back in 2008 when we first applied (“no, I now run my own firm”). Off the back of that they asked if I pay tax in Thailand, to which the answer was ‘yes’. They asked my salary.

And that was it. I asked if they wanted to see the plethora of documents they asked for, and then some, and we got a polite ‘no’.

In our case, no singing was needed, but we both had practiced, just in case.

I estimate the total time we were in the room was 3 to 4 minutes. Others in the queue were quite surprised when we came out so quickly and I think they felt relieved that we didn’t come out having been grilled.

In the lift on the way out, one of the committee members came down too, and she (unsolicited) told us straight out that the interview was so short as the committee didn’t have any worries/queries about our application. If there were concerns, things would have gone longer. In essence, a short meeting was a good meeting.

So that is about it.

We weren’t told what happens next, but I suppose over the next 6 months we’ll find out one way or another based on past reports.

[GarryP]

Congratulations. Now you just have to wait for the Interior Minister's signature and your wife's name announced in the Government Gazette. I hope my interview is as short as yours/your wife's.

BTW, 60 interviews seems a lot. I think Arkady mentioned some time ago that they were down to about 20 or so per meeting. If they keep on at today's rate I may not have to wait too long before I am called.

[Dork]

Great report Samran. Congratulations to you both!

Can imagine you'll be having a small cocktail tonight & saying whew! That was easy.

[samran]

@Dork, a beer is on the agenda for sure.

@Gary, I suspect cause they skipped last month (end of budget year, need to renew budgets) they were trying to make up a slight backlog. Nevertheless, perhaps this represents a new work rate...

[skippybangkok]

Congrats.... I guess I have a dilemma now. My traditional approach is never pick up a phone number not in my contact list unless I have one of those "I'm feeling lucky" google moments.

Guess I better pick up my phone now, but since I am 12 months behind Gary, there will be a lot of stray calls to pick up

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[samran]

Hi Skippy (and other). Many thanks.

Easy way around it is to get the key mobile phone numbers from SB people next time you drop in. Certainly that is what I did.

[tamvine]

Hi Skippy (and other). Many thanks.

Easy way around it is to get the key mobile phone numbers from SB people next time you drop in. Certainly that is what I did.

Hi Samran,

Just read good news about you and congrats! Since I am a little behind in your story. Please help me understand as to when you received a letter from MOI for interview? I mean how many days in advance? Also did you receive a phone call as well for Interview? If so, was it from MOI or from SB?

[samran]

Hi Skippy (and other). Many thanks.

Easy way around it is to get the key mobile phone numbers from SB people next time you drop in. Certainly that is what I did.

Hi Samran,

Just read good news about you and congrats! Since I am a little behind in your story. Please help me understand as to when you received a letter from MOI for interview? I mean how many days in advance? Also did you receive a phone call as well for Interview? If so, was it from MOI or from SB?

Tamvine, SB called us with about 6 days notice. Asked us if we wanted the letter sent or if I came to SB to pick it up. I picked it up.

[Oasis]

Dear TV friends,

Yesterday, my interview went well and hope gone through it, about 5-10-minutes, if committee feel comfortable with you and your documents, asked about work and general talking. People outside meeting room quite helpful and sometime will tell you what is happening inside the meeting room to be prepared. Told that very soon they will send the applicants cases to MOI minister to sign, but could not say when minister will approve.

Hoping to hear good news soon.

Oasis

[GarryP]

I think this must be a record, two TV members interviewed in the same week. Another was interviewed only a few months back. Makes you feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, just that the tunnel varies in length for different applicants.

[samran]

Well done Oasis.

Curious to know if we were interviewed at around the same time?

[skyaslimit]

Congrats.

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

[Oasis]

Well done Oasis.

Curious to know if we were interviewed at around the same time?

Thanks Samran, mine was after lunch with yellow batch but yours was before lunch with blue batch.

Oasis

[samran]

Well done Oasis.

Curious to know if we were interviewed at around the same time?

Thanks Samran, mine was after lunch with yellow batch but yours was before lunch with blue batch.

Oasis

ah, okay then, so unlikely we would have been waiting in the same room for too long.

The committee didn't tell us 'what would happen next', but I assume they did tell you.

Again, all the best and congrats on the progress to date.

[Arkady]

Congratulations to Samran and his missus and Oasis. Sounds like things went well. It is good to hear that they increased the batch size, even though that means long waits for some people, since they ask every one to register before 9.30am. My interview was a lot longer, around 20 minutes including singing, but it also seemed to go well. Our batch was only about 25 people and all the interviews seemed to last at least 15 minutes, some as long as 30. The larger batch size must mean shorter interviews in general. Another difference is that no one looked at any of my documents at all, except the faxed copy of my invitation letter. I offered the documents to the lady who registered us and she told me to take them into the interview room and plonk them on the table in front of me in case any of the committee wanted to take a look at them. But they didn't.

[samran]

@Arkady, maybe I mistyped, but they didn't look at any of the docs we bought.

[Oasis]

Congratulations to Samran and his missus and Oasis. Sounds like things went well. It is good to hear that they increased the batch size, even though that means long waits for some people, since they ask every one to register before 9.30am. My interview was a lot longer, around 20 minutes including singing, but it also seemed to go well. Our batch was only about 25 people and all the interviews seemed to last at least 15 minutes, some as long as 30. The larger batch size must mean shorter interviews in general. Another difference is that no one looked at any of my documents at all, except the faxed copy of my invitation letter. I offered the documents to the lady who registered us and she told me to take them into the interview room and plonk them on the table in front of me in case any of the committee wanted to take a look at them. But they didn't.

Thanks a lot dear Arkady! Hope things will be more quicker.

Oasis

[tamvine]

Congratulations to Samran and his missus and Oasis. Sounds like things went well. It is good to hear that they increased the batch size, even though that means long waits for some people, since they ask every one to register before 9.30am. My interview was a lot longer, around 20 minutes including singing, but it also seemed to go well. Our batch was only about 25 people and all the interviews seemed to last at least 15 minutes, some as long as 30. The larger batch size must mean shorter interviews in general. Another difference is that no one looked at any of my documents at all, except the faxed copy of my invitation letter. I offered the documents to the lady who registered us and she told me to take them into the interview room and plonk them on the table in front of me in case any of the committee wanted to take a look at them. But they didn't.

Congratulations Arkady, I wish you all the best.

One question though what singing did you do? Only National Anthem or something else as well? How was it done? Were you allowed to read from paper or you had to memorise it? What is expectation by the MOI on this point? Your tips will help.

Last question if you may advice when did you apply 2009 or 2010?

[NewlyMintedThai]

I had to sing both the national anthem and the royal anthem five years ago. They allowed you to read the lyrics from a cheat sheet, though.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Arkady]

Congratulations to Samran and his missus and Oasis. Sounds like things went well. It is good to hear that they increased the batch size, even though that means long waits for some people, since they ask every one to register before 9.30am. My interview was a lot longer, around 20 minutes including singing, but it also seemed to go well. Our batch was only about 25 people and all the interviews seemed to last at least 15 minutes, some as long as 30. The larger batch size must mean shorter interviews in general. Another difference is that no one looked at any of my documents at all, except the faxed copy of my invitation letter. I offered the documents to the lady who registered us and she told me to take them into the interview room and plonk them on the table in front of me in case any of the committee wanted to take a look at them. But they didn't.

Congratulations Arkady, I wish you all the best.

One question though what singing did you do? Only National Anthem or something else as well? How was it done? Were you allowed to read from paper or you had to memorise it? What is expectation by the MOI on this point? Your tips will help.

Last question if you may advice when did you apply 2009 or 2010?

You have to sing the National and Royal Anthems, if you don't qualify for an exemption through having a Thai wife for the requisite period of time or being a foreign woman with a Thai husband applying under Section 9. They used to allow singing from a crib sheet, as noted by Newly Minted Thai but now you have to sing from memory. The singing is performed unaccompanied into a microphone. I spent some time learning and practising the songs and managed to get through them without a hitch, even to my astonishment receiving some applause and positive comments. I have a smidgeon of musical background which helped. I don't know how strict the MOI is in appraising the singing. Since it is supposed to be a test of Thai language ability, I imagine they give allowances to obviously tone deaf applicants and focus more on ensuring they get the language right. I was told, while waiting for my turn, that they give applicants a second shot, if they mess up, and, if they still can't get it right, they are invited to go away and learn the songs properly and will then be interviewed again several months later. Of course SB is supposed to ensure the singing is up to scratch before forwarding applications to the MOI. I know of one applicant who was made to sing the songs seven times to the SB director until he was satisfied. In my case I had one test at SB with a script that was OK but when I was asked to come again and sing without a script the director apologised and said he had to rush to a meeting and would therefore not be able to listen to my singing but felt sure from my Thai speaking ability that all would be fine.

It is really worth putting a lot of effort into practising the songs, if you to sing them. They are not particularly easy, particularly the Royal Anthem, and you need to be sure that you start in the right key for your voice, so that you don't end up squeaking when you get to the high notes or having to drop down an octave and growl. After finishing the songs, some other applicants in the past have been asked to paraphrase into standard Thai a line of the Rajasap from the Royal Anthem or asked how they felt in their hearts while singing one or other of the songs. So you should understand the songs thoroughly as well as be able to parrot them. Applied in early 2010.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes...in my case they pulled out a line from the Royal Anthem and asked me to paraphrase what it meant in colloquial Thai.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[tamvine]

Yes...in my case they pulled out a line from the Royal Anthem and asked me to paraphrase what it meant in colloquial Thai.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

So persons who have Thai Wife will not need to do any singing at all?

[samran]

Yes...in my case they pulled out a line from the Royal Anthem and asked me to paraphrase what it meant in colloquial Thai.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

So persons who have Thai Wife will not need to do any singing at all?

if you are applying under that banner, then no.

[GarryP]

Congratulations to Samran and his missus and Oasis. Sounds like things went well. It is good to hear that they increased the batch size, even though that means long waits for some people, since they ask every one to register before 9.30am. My interview was a lot longer, around 20 minutes including singing, but it also seemed to go well. Our batch was only about 25 people and all the interviews seemed to last at least 15 minutes, some as long as 30. The larger batch size must mean shorter interviews in general. Another difference is that no one looked at any of my documents at all, except the faxed copy of my invitation letter. I offered the documents to the lady who registered us and she told me to take them into the interview room and plonk them on the table in front of me in case any of the committee wanted to take a look at them. But they didn't.

Congratulations Arkady, I wish you all the best.

One question though what singing did you do? Only National Anthem or something else as well? How was it done? Were you allowed to read from paper or you had to memorise it? What is expectation by the MOI on this point? Your tips will help.

Last question if you may advice when did you apply 2009 or 2010?

You have to sing the National and Royal Anthems, if you don't qualify for an exemption through having a Thai wife for the requisite period of time or being a foreign woman with a Thai husband applying under Section 9. They used to allow singing from a crib sheet, as noted by Newly Minted Thai but now you have to sing from memory. The singing is performed unaccompanied into a microphone. I spent some time learning and practising the songs and managed to get through them without a hitch, even to my astonishment receiving some applause and positive comments. I have a smidgeon of musical background which helped. I don't know how strict the MOI is in appraising the singing. Since it is supposed to be a test of Thai language ability, I imagine they give allowances to obviously tone deaf applicants and focus more on ensuring they get the language right. I was told, while waiting for my turn, that they give applicants a second shot, if they mess up, and, if they still can't get it right, they are invited to go away and learn the songs properly and will then be interviewed again several months later. Of course SB is supposed to ensure the singing is up to scratch before forwarding applications to the MOI. I know of one applicant who was made to sing the songs seven times to the SB director until he was satisfied. In my case I had one test at SB with a script that was OK but when I was asked to come again and sing without a script the director apologised and said he had to rush to a meeting and would therefore not be able to listen to my singing but felt sure from my Thai speaking ability that all would be fine.

It is really worth putting a lot of effort into practising the songs, if you to sing them. They are not particularly easy, particularly the Royal Anthem, and you need to be sure that you start in the right key for your voice, so that you don't end up squeaking when you get to the high notes or having to drop down an octave and growl. After finishing the songs, some other applicants in the past have been asked to paraphrase into standard Thai a line of the Rajasap from the Royal Anthem or asked how they felt in their hearts while singing one or other of the songs. So you should understand the songs thoroughly as well as be able to parrot them. Applied in early 2010.

I don't have to sing anything, unless the regulations change, as I am applying based on having a Thai wife. However, if it were the case that I had to sing, I would not know what to say if I was asked what I felt when singing the national anthem. I would obviously have to lie as "I felt indifferent" would certainly not go down well. This is not meant to be taken as comment on the content of the national anthem, I feel the same towards the British national anthem.

Anyway, I believe that it would be best to be on the safe side and practice the national and royal anthems in case regulations change. In the meantime, having not a single musical bone in my body, I will just keep my fingers crossed that the regulations remain unchanged.

[Arkady]

I don't have to sing anything, unless the regulations change, as I am applying based on having a Thai wife. However, if it were the case that I had to sing, I would not know what to say if I was asked what I felt when singing the national anthem. I would obviously have to lie as "I felt indifferent" would certainly not go down well. This is not meant to be taken as comment on the content of the national anthem, I feel the same towards the British national anthem.

Anyway, I believe that it would be best to be on the safe side and practice the national and royal anthems in case regulations change. In the meantime, having not a single musical bone in my body, I will just keep my fingers crossed that the regulations remain unchanged.

Garry, I think there is nil chance of regulations changing in that way because the waiver from singing is an interpretation of Section 11 of the Act that provides exemption from males with Thai wives from the need to have knowledge of the Thai language. It would be pretty hard to argue that having to sing the songs wasn't a test of Thai language ability (as well as of musical ability) and they have no desire to listen to any more off key singing than they have to. (They have never asked women married to Thais to sing AFAIK). Interviewing applicants in Thai is, however, not a test of their Thai. It just happens to be language they speak at the Interior Ministry LOL. Actually the questions tend to be about the Royal Anthem which is nothing if not a good test of Thai language ability. Some of the words cannot even be found in the Haas dictionary.

[Arkady]

Funny story. About 3 or 4 years ago a friend who used to hang out in a certain expat bar told me that one of the farang owners of the bar which is a proper limited company had applied for Thai nationality on the basis being married to a Thai. Apparently he was in the habit of telling customers at his bar that he had paid a bribe of a few hundred thousand and was guaranteed to get his citizenship within 12-18 months after application with a final payment to be made after obtaining his ID card. He could only speak a few words of Thai, certainly not enough to even understand the questions at the MoI interview, but the lawyer or agent he had paid the bribe to had assured him that wasn't a problem for those who paid. Soon after that my friend relocated overseas and I hadn't seen him until last week when he showed up in town. Naturally, I was curious to know if his bar owner friend's application had been successful in the interim. Sadly for him there had been no progress on his application at all, not even the MoI interview, and he had already figured out that he had been ripped off by the spivvy lawyer or agent who relieved him of his cash. Som Nam Naa.

[GarryP]

I was going to go down to the Minorities and Nationality Group at the MOI late last month just to check on the status of my application and let them know I am still here and interested. The demonstrations put paid to that. I have postponed my visit to January 2014. Hopefully, things will be a little quieter then.

I also assume with the current unrest that there will be no stitting of the review committee this month and possibly until we have a new government. In its caretaker capacity the Minister of the Interior will not be signing any approvals.