Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[dbrenn]

Can anyone help me clarify the following.

If you receive notification of HMK approval while being on a 3-4 month job overseas. Is there a time limit on the approval? How long time can you wait from approval till you have to come back and present yourself.

Also. From which date are you a Thai Citizen. From date of approval or date of oath taking or ID CARD issuance or??

Thank you

I'm not sure of a time limit on completing the process once HMK has approved. SB may conclude that you are no longer interested if you don't turn up to complete the process, but not sure whether they would act on that via any defined guideline.

On your last point, you can only prove that you are a Thai citizen to your Ampher when you have your certificate of naturalsation. They will then issue you with an ID card that will prove you are Thai to the wider world.

Although you could still say that you were (in theory) a Thai citizen when HMK had given assent, the certificate of naturalisation is not issued until the IM has recorded this decision into its records and SB issued you with a copy of those records.

No matter how Thai you may feel after HMK approval, only the ID card is recognised as evidence of Thai citizenship in everyday life.

[Arkady]

Can anyone help me clarify the following.

If you receive notification of HMK approval while being on a 3-4 month job overseas. Is there a time limit on the approval? How long time can you wait from approval till you have to come back and present yourself.

Also. From which date are you a Thai Citizen. From date of approval or date of oath taking or ID CARD issuance or??

Thank you

I'm not sure of a time limit on completing the process once HMK has approved. SB may conclude that you are no longer interested if you don't turn up to complete the process, but not sure whether they would act on that via any defined guideline.

On your last point, you can only prove that you are a Thai citizen to your Ampher when you have your certificate of naturalsation. They will then issue you with an ID card that will prove you are Thai to the wider world.

Although you could still say that you were (in theory) a Thai citizen when HMK had given assent, the certificate of naturalisation is not issued until the IM has recorded this decision into its records and SB issued you with a copy of those records.

No matter how Thai you may feel after HMK approval, only the ID card is recognised as evidence of Thai citizenship in everyday life.

You will receive a letter informing you that HMK has approved (in my case it took them 5 months to inform me he had signed) and you will be asked to present yourself at SB to perform the oath of allegiance within one or two weeks. Normally your case officer there will try to contact you by phone before the letter actually arrives. I am not sure how long they will hold this open for you, if you are overseas. If they can't contact you and and you don't respond to the letter, I expect they would cancel your application after a month or so. If you find yourself in this situation, or expect to, you should ask SB for advice in advance. I would think it would be advisable to try to come back to Bkk for a few days to do the oath of allegiance.

It is important to understand that HMK's approval doesn't make you legally Thai. The oath of allegiance that you take after that is also a requirement for naturalisation under the Nationality Act. The point at which you legally become Thai is the date your approval is announced in the Royal Gazette. SB will take a month or so after that to arrange your paperwork which you use to get your ID card. Therefore, an application up to HMK approval stage is still missing the last two steps to become Thai.

You should also not delay in picking up your paperwork from SB and getting your ID card and passport. You would probably run into problems if you don't do this according to their timescale. In addition, still using a foreign passport to enter or leave Thailand once you are Thai, could constitute one of the grounds for revocation of Thai nationality under the Act.

[pattayamick]

Dbren and Arkady.

Thank you for your always valuable input.

I am overseas and cannot return before 1 September.

My "Agent" informed me 3 days ago that HMK had put his signature my application.

I will let my "Agent" contact SB. I hope they can wait a few months..

One more thing. At my MOI interview I was informed that my Embassy would be informed once my Thai Citizenship came through.

Do they really inform?? Not that it matters, as my country allows dual citizenship. Just wondering

[samran]

Dbren and Arkady.

Thank you for your always valuable input.

I am overseas and cannot return before 1 September.

My "Agent" informed me 3 days ago that HMK had put his signature my application.

I will let my "Agent" contact SB. I hope they can wait a few months..

One more thing. At my MOI interview I was informed that my Embassy would be informed once my Thai Citizenship came through.

Do they really inform?? Not that it matters, as my country allows dual citizenship. Just wondering

Many congrats pattaymick!

Quick question for the rest of us in line, when did you do your 'big committee' MOI interview?

[pattayamick]

I went to the BIG MOI on 5th April 2011.

[brastgreek]

Hi

I submitted my documents to Santi Baan (SB) way back in 2008 and if I am guessing correctly, my documents were submitted by SB to MOI in 2009. And just got the interview with MOI in March 2015.

Just wanted to understand the timeline - From interview date to getting the approval letter? From approval letter to Minister signing the document?

As for Work Permit, to be straight to the point, I am out of work now and have something going on with a potential employer however the employment will not happen until early next year. Would this create any issues?

Is a work permit required - when the approval letter comes? Also is it required when the minister signs the documents? Do the officials ask to see the work permit during this process?

Another issues where I need some opinion is annual income taxes. Normally I do my annual taxes together with my wife so my income and her income are combined and the deductions are applied and then I pay whatever balance taxes. Unfortunately since this year, I am out of work - when we do the taxes next year, my income will be none (but my wife will still have the income) however since I mentioned we do the taxes together, I will still have my name in the PND 91 and the receipt thereof. Would this create any issues in future with the citizenship process.

Thanks for all your replies and help, guys.

To Brastgreek, How long did you wait for the interview at Lamlukka after your application was submitted to the MOI? I suggested that you keep everything until you get the Thai ID Card and Thai Passport as my mother and sister who got Thai Citizens were asked to show these documents such as Current Passport, Thai Alien Resident Documents and workpermit to the authorities when they applied for Thai ID Card, Driver License and Thai Passport or change the data in Thai Bank etc. I also suggested you to keep the copy incase you might need them.

[jamesthailand]

SB just told me (actually my secretary) by phone that my application had been signed by the palace (along with a couple of hundred others). A letter is supposedly on its way. I submitted my application to SB in Jan 2008.

I am wondering how long the remaining stages are likely to take. I am guessing the longest wait is from taking the oath to the announcement in the Royal Gazette.

[GarryP]

SB just told me (actually my secretary) by phone that my application had been signed by the palace (along with a couple of hundred others). A letter is supposedly on its way. I submitted my application to SB in Jan 2008.

I am wondering how long the remaining stages are likely to take. I am guessing the longest wait is from taking the oath to the announcement in the Royal Gazette.

Congratulations. Any idea when the large committee reviewed your application? This is the committee that receives your application after the screening committee interviews you and approves (or rejects) your application.

[brastgreek]

Congratulations.

I am just wondering - did you use an agent to apply or did you do everything yourself?

SB just told me (actually my secretary) by phone that my application had been signed by the palace (along with a couple of hundred others). A letter is supposedly on its way. I submitted my application to SB in Jan 2008.

I am wondering how long the remaining stages are likely to take. I am guessing the longest wait is from taking the oath to the announcement in the Royal Gazette.

[jamesthailand]

I didn't use an agent. My secretary helped a lot.

I don't know exactly when the large committee approved my application. The two long (multi-year) delays in the process were waiting for the MoI interview and waiting for the Interior Minister to sign.

[dbrenn]

Can anyone help me clarify the following.

If you receive notification of HMK approval while being on a 3-4 month job overseas. Is there a time limit on the approval? How long time can you wait from approval till you have to come back and present yourself.

Also. From which date are you a Thai Citizen. From date of approval or date of oath taking or ID CARD issuance or??

Thank you

I'm not sure of a time limit on completing the process once HMK has approved. SB may conclude that you are no longer interested if you don't turn up to complete the process, but not sure whether they would act on that via any defined guideline.

On your last point, you can only prove that you are a Thai citizen to your Ampher when you have your certificate of naturalsation. They will then issue you with an ID card that will prove you are Thai to the wider world.

Although you could still say that you were (in theory) a Thai citizen when HMK had given assent, the certificate of naturalisation is not issued until the IM has recorded this decision into its records and SB issued you with a copy of those records.

No matter how Thai you may feel after HMK approval, only the ID card is recognised as evidence of Thai citizenship in everyday life.

You will receive a letter informing you that HMK has approved (in my case it took them 5 months to inform me he had signed) and you will be asked to present yourself at SB to perform the oath of allegiance within one or two weeks. Normally your case officer there will try to contact you by phone before the letter actually arrives. I am not sure how long they will hold this open for you, if you are overseas. If they can't contact you and and you don't respond to the letter, I expect they would cancel your application after a month or so. If you find yourself in this situation, or expect to, you should ask SB for advice in advance. I would think it would be advisable to try to come back to Bkk for a few days to do the oath of allegiance.

It is important to understand that HMK's approval doesn't make you legally Thai. The oath of allegiance that you take after that is also a requirement for naturalisation under the Nationality Act. The point at which you legally become Thai is the date your approval is announced in the Royal Gazette. SB will take a month or so after that to arrange your paperwork which you use to get your ID card. Therefore, an application up to HMK approval stage is still missing the last two steps to become Thai.

You should also not delay in picking up your paperwork from SB and getting your ID card and passport. You would probably run into problems if you don't do this according to their timescale. In addition, still using a foreign passport to enter or leave Thailand once you are Thai, could constitute one of the grounds for revocation of Thai nationality under the Act.

The letter advising of HMK approval must be a new step, or one that is not always followed - all I got was a phone call from SB telling me that he had approved and (another call around a month later) inviting me to take the oath. The only letter I got was advising me of the IM approval.

Ass you say, abandoning an application, or not making oneself available when SB wants to see you or speak to you is a bad idea. Not sure whether there is any official policy on if or when they would cancel your application though, or whether it would just sit in limbo - I may find out how bad soon as I have a friend who applied around 5 years back then abandoned his application. He moved house so may have missed the letter(s) advising him of any approvals that came his way.

He has asked me to go to SB with him to see if his application can be resurrected, so when he eventually gets around to it I'll let you all know how it goes.

[ravip]

I just see it how I read it.

Obviously someone from a poor nation would be more likely

to want Thai citizenship than someone from a rich country.

Disagree ... Then Do Tell.

Naka.

You sure do have a valid point in your opinion.

Why exactly do people from rich, developed and perfect countries come to these miserable poor countries? Let alone trying hard to get citizenship!

I am sure you would not ever want to step in to a poor country and soil your feet...

[Mario2008]

That is a more than 8 year old post. Let's not get into that discussion after so many years.

[jamesthailand]

Here's the body of the letter I got. SB managed to send it to my old address, despite my having told them long ago that I had moved. The letter says that my application was approved by HMK on 28th Feb, but it took till the 2nd June to issue the letter. I find the phrasing of the letter a bit strange, but I understand it to say that I should go and swear the oath of allegiance within 7 days of the date of the letter, otherwise publication in the Royal Gazette will be delayed.

[bakery2012]

Hi

I submitted my documents to Santi Baan (SB) way back in 2008 and if I am guessing correctly, my documents were submitted by SB to MOI in 2009. And just got the interview with MOI in March 2015.

Just wanted to understand the timeline - From interview date to getting the approval letter? From approval letter to Minister signing the document?

As for Work Permit, to be straight to the point, I am out of work now and have something going on with a potential employer however the employment will not happen until early next year. Would this create any issues?

Is a work permit required - when the approval letter comes? Also is it required when the minister signs the documents? Do the officials ask to see the work permit during this process?

Another issues where I need some opinion is annual income taxes. Normally I do my annual taxes together with my wife so my income and her income are combined and the deductions are applied and then I pay whatever balance taxes. Unfortunately since this year, I am out of work - when we do the taxes next year, my income will be none (but my wife will still have the income) however since I mentioned we do the taxes together, I will still have my name in the PND 91 and the receipt thereof. Would this create any issues in future with the citizenship process.

Thanks for all your replies and help, guys.

To Brastgreek, How long did you wait for the interview at Lamlukka after your application was submitted to the MOI? I suggested that you keep everything until you get the Thai ID Card and Thai Passport as my mother and sister who got Thai Citizens were asked to show these documents such as Current Passport, Thai Alien Resident Documents and workpermit to the authorities when they applied for Thai ID Card, Driver License and Thai Passport or change the data in Thai Bank etc. I also suggested you to keep the copy incase you might need them.

To Brastgreek, Thank your for you information. Wow that is very long time. Almost 7 years just to get the interview! For the work permit, I am not sure. You better ask SB whether you still need work permit or not. I am also curious about that too.

[GarryP]

It is my understanding that you need to maintain your work permit throughout the whole process. It is one of the criteria for qualifying. That is, without one you cease to qualify. Having said that, I would check with SB to see whether this has changed.

[dbrenn]

It is my understanding that you need to maintain your work permit throughout the whole process. It is one of the criteria for qualifying. That is, without one you cease to qualify. Having said that, I would check with SB to see whether this has changed.

SB will likely tell you that you need to maintain your WP throughout the whole process, as they did to me, which I did even when it meant staying in a job I hated.

That said, the only two times that I was asked to produce my work permit were when I applied and when I was interviewed at the IM. In retrospect, I probably could have given up my WP much earlier, following the IM interview, unless there was 'behind the scenes' checking by SB, directly to the Labour Department, which seems unlikely or they would not need to see your physical work permit in the first place.

Had I known then when I know now, I'd have not suffered the job I had at the time as long as I did

[Arkady]

SB advises maintaining a WP till the bitter end, the reason being that the MoI interprets the part of the Nationality Act that says you must have an occupation in Thailand that way. When I applied I expressed concern that the process might take many years and I might either retire or be made redundant before reaching the finishing line. SB said keep a WP to be safe, even if you have to set up your company to do it.

In practical terms, you might be able to get away with not having a WP after the MoI interview. You will be asked for copies of all your documents when you go to SB to do the oath of allegiance but I am not sure, if they would object, if you didn't have a valid work permit to submit or submitted a copy of one that appeared valid, as it had not reached its expiry date, but had actually been cancelled because you had left the job. I think their purpose is mainly to check that you are the same person but I could be wrong. At least you are very unlikely to be asked for a copy of your WP after the oath of allegiance.

Before the MoI interview it would be risky not to have a WP. Due to an error made by SB in my application, the MoI knocked it back to SB to correct their mistake and, in the process, asked SB to verify everything again. That meant an updated letter of employment as well as a copy of WP and all other personal documents. About 10 days before the interview at the MoI I was asked to present myself with all documents including my old WP because I had changed jobs during the 3 year qualifying period and SB had not bothered to include a copy of the old WP with the application, even though I had offered it to them. The MoI official checked very carefully that I had had a WP for the entire 3 years before the application and still had one at the time, saying somewhat chillingly that any gap would have disqualified me. But when I went to the MoI interview I presented all my documents but they didn't even look at them, saying it was up to the members of the commission, if they wanted to look at them, in case anyone had a question. They didn't. If you were lucky enough to avoid scrutiny of your WP before at the MoI interview, they would certainly ask you about your job and I am pretty sure they would disqualify you on the spot, if they found out you were not working.

I think it's pretty much pot luck to what extent your WP and employment will get scrutinised after the initial application. However, I would advise doing whatever possible to stay employed (and earning at least the minimum salary for your category) until after the interview. Remember that there is also a very small chance of being asked to interview a second time, if there is any doubt about your qualifications - rare but it can happen. To be even more sure, try to keep employed until after the oath of allegiance or better still after your name is announced in the Royal Gazette.

I don't think there is likely to be any checking up on your employment with the Labour Ministry behind your back. They normally ask you to provide all evidence. I think this might only happen, if they had reason to believe you had submitted fake documents relating to your employment, in which case they would probably hand the case over to the police.

[Arkady]

SB just told me (actually my secretary) by phone that my application had been signed by the palace (along with a couple of hundred others). A letter is supposedly on its way. I submitted my application to SB in Jan 2008.

I am wondering how long the remaining stages are likely to take. I am guessing the longest wait is from taking the oath to the announcement in the Royal Gazette.

Congratulations. It usually takes about 4-5 months from oath to RG, provided there is a serving IM in place to approve the RG announcement. You get the paperwork 4-6 weeks after that, depending on how large the batches are.

[GarryP]

SB advises maintaining a WP till the bitter end, the reason being that the MoI interprets the part of the Nationality Act that says you must have an occupation in Thailand that way. When I applied I expressed concern that the process might take many years and I might either retire or be made redundant before reaching the finishing line. SB said keep a WP to be safe, even if you have to set up your company to do it.

In practical terms, you might be able to get away with not having a WP after the MoI interview. You will be asked for copies of all your documents when you go to SB to do the oath of allegiance but I am not sure, if they would object, if you didn't have a valid work permit to submit or submitted a copy of one that appeared valid, as it had not reached its expiry date, but had actually been cancelled because you had left the job. I think their purpose is mainly to check that you are the same person but I could be wrong. At least you are very unlikely to be asked for a copy of your WP after the oath of allegiance.

Before the MoI interview it would be risky not to have a WP. Due to an error made by SB in my application, the MoI knocked it back to SB to correct their mistake and, in the process, asked SB to verify everything again. That meant an updated letter of employment as well as a copy of WP and all other personal documents. About 10 days before the interview at the MoI I was asked to present myself with all documents including my old WP because I had changed jobs during the 3 year qualifying period and SB had not bothered to include a copy of the old WP with the application, even though I had offered it to them. The MoI official checked very carefully that I had had a WP for the entire 3 years before the application and still had one at the time, saying somewhat chillingly that any gap would have disqualified me. But when I went to the MoI interview I presented all my documents but they didn't even look at them, saying it was up to the members of the commission, if they wanted to look at them, in case anyone had a question. They didn't. If you were lucky enough to avoid scrutiny of your WP before at the MoI interview, they would certainly ask you about your job and I am pretty sure they would disqualify you on the spot, if they found out you were not working.

I think it's pretty much pot luck to what extent your WP and employment will get scrutinised after the initial application. However, I would advise doing whatever possible to stay employed (and earning at least the minimum salary for your category) until after the interview. Remember that there is also a very small chance of being asked to interview a second time, if there is any doubt about your qualifications - rare but it can happen. To be even more sure, try to keep employed until after the oath of allegiance or better still after your name is announced in the Royal Gazette.

I don't think there is likely to be any checking up on your employment with the Labour Ministry behind your back. They normally ask you to provide all evidence. I think this might only happen, if they had reason to believe you had submitted fake documents relating to your employment, in which case they would probably hand the case over to the police.

I can cornfirm the bit about being called back for a second interview by the screening committee from personal experience. I had to present all my documents a second time.

[Arkady]

Dbren and Arkady.

Thank you for your always valuable input.

I am overseas and cannot return before 1 September.

My "Agent" informed me 3 days ago that HMK had put his signature my application.

I will let my "Agent" contact SB. I hope they can wait a few months..

One more thing. At my MOI interview I was informed that my Embassy would be informed once my Thai Citizenship came through.

Do they really inform?? Not that it matters, as my country allows dual citizenship. Just wondering

They will send a formal letter to your embassy to inform them that you have been granted Thai citizenship at some point after your name has appeared in the Royal Gazette. Your embassy will take no action but bear in mind that the majority of applicants are Chinese and Indians whose countries specifically prohibit dual nationality in all circumstances.

[brastgreek]

I had maintained my work permit continuously till the MOI interview however I quit the job after MOI interview for about 6 months and intend to get employed again in very near future (probably by early 2016).

SB advises maintaining a WP till the bitter end, the reason being that the MoI interprets the part of the Nationality Act that says you must have an occupation in Thailand that way. When I applied I expressed concern that the process might take many years and I might either retire or be made redundant before reaching the finishing line. SB said keep a WP to be safe, even if you have to set up your company to do it.

In practical terms, you might be able to get away with not having a WP after the MoI interview. You will be asked for copies of all your documents when you go to SB to do the oath of allegiance but I am not sure, if they would object, if you didn't have a valid work permit to submit or submitted a copy of one that appeared valid, as it had not reached its expiry date, but had actually been cancelled because you had left the job. I think their purpose is mainly to check that you are the same person but I could be wrong. At least you are very unlikely to be asked for a copy of your WP after the oath of allegiance.

Before the MoI interview it would be risky not to have a WP. Due to an error made by SB in my application, the MoI knocked it back to SB to correct their mistake and, in the process, asked SB to verify everything again. That meant an updated letter of employment as well as a copy of WP and all other personal documents. About 10 days before the interview at the MoI I was asked to present myself with all documents including my old WP because I had changed jobs during the 3 year qualifying period and SB had not bothered to include a copy of the old WP with the application, even though I had offered it to them. The MoI official checked very carefully that I had had a WP for the entire 3 years before the application and still had one at the time, saying somewhat chillingly that any gap would have disqualified me. But when I went to the MoI interview I presented all my documents but they didn't even look at them, saying it was up to the members of the commission, if they wanted to look at them, in case anyone had a question. They didn't. If you were lucky enough to avoid scrutiny of your WP before at the MoI interview, they would certainly ask you about your job and I am pretty sure they would disqualify you on the spot, if they found out you were not working.

I think it's pretty much pot luck to what extent your WP and employment will get scrutinised after the initial application. However, I would advise doing whatever possible to stay employed (and earning at least the minimum salary for your category) until after the interview. Remember that there is also a very small chance of being asked to interview a second time, if there is any doubt about your qualifications - rare but it can happen. To be even more sure, try to keep employed until after the oath of allegiance or better still after your name is announced in the Royal Gazette.

I don't think there is likely to be any checking up on your employment with the Labour Ministry behind your back. They normally ask you to provide all evidence. I think this might only happen, if they had reason to believe you had submitted fake documents relating to your employment, in which case they would probably hand the case over to the police.

[THAIJAMES]

I just noticed that the extensive and detailed ministerial guidelines from October 2010 on how to apply for Thai citizenship by naturalization have been removed from Special Branch's website http://www.sbpolice.go.th/, leaving only a copy of the application form and a note saying, "Currently under revision by the Ministry of the Interior" (ขณะนี้กระทรวงมหาดไทยกาลังแก้ไขให้เป็นปัจจุบัน). I wonder what that means. The brief guidelines for women to adopt their husbands' Thai nationality are still up there.

This may have only been temporary as the application form and the guidelines still appear as pdf files in the section (ข้อมูลการให้บริการ > การขอแปลงสัญชาติเป็นไทย )

Incidentally for GarryP, the guidelines list under point number 4 (in the first pdf file) that you need to have PR certificate or been on House Registration (ทร.14)

for not less than 5 years. Note that (ทร.14) is the blue book for Thai/PR's. The yellow book is (ทร.13)

However, the other files (Conditions for scoring applicants, and updated ammendments to the Act. Section 11, I think) allude to persons without PR status and simply being on either ท.ร.13 or ท.ร.14. However, you would still need to show continuous residence of at least 5 years up until applying.

I think some other people on this topic have posted that married to thai applicants without PR can now apply, but it would be good if some applicant could confirm this, or the next person who visit special branch might ask about this also?

.

Oh, false alarm. I see that they have now broken it up into separate sections and you have to click on each heading. Previously it was all just one file. Thanks for pointing that out. It must just the application form which is being revised and they fill that in for you anyway. I will have a look when I have time to see if anything has been changed in the guidelines since last year.

I don't know if any males have yet got their Thai nationality with Thai wives and without PR, following the amendments in the 2008 Act but Special Branch told me last year that around half a dozen had passed the interview at the Ministry. The Ministry seems reluctant to make the changes clear in the guidelines which contain the bit you mention about the requirement to have a blue ทร.14 tabien baan for 5 years with no exceptions mentioned. I think this is deliberate obfuscation to put people off from applying but Special Branch will quickly tell you, it is not necessary, if you have a Thai wife. In fact, it is also not necessary to have the ทร.14 for 5 years, even if you have PR and no Thai wife. The Nationality Act only requires 5 years' residence in Thailand for those without Thai wives and doesn't mention that this has to be with PR. The last I heard, they were counting time on a work permit towards the 5 years. Obviously you get less points without PR but I don't know how much weighting the Ministry puts on the score, as long as you pass. The letter Special Branch sends them doesn't mention the score but the details must be there for them to see in your file, if they are interested. The guy from the NIA who interviewed me last year told me that the majority of applicants for naturalization were now applying on the basis of having Thai wives but no PR. This trend will continue as more people get to know the law and no new PRs are being issued. I am convinced that the expectation of a steadily increasing flow of applicants with Thai wives but no PR (who also don't have to sing the two anthems) is the reason that attitudes hardened at the Ministry resulting in the request to renounce existing nationality.

When I asked a few years ago, PRs' are required to wait 5 years before applying for citizenship. Is this still the case? I have been on the Yellow book for more than 6 years, but just recently received PR.

[Mario2008]

How long you have to wait depends on if you are married to a Thai national or not and if yes if you have a child together.

[THAIJAMES]

How long you have to wait depends on if you are married to a Thai national or not and if yes if you have a child together.

I am single, just received PR, have been on Yellow book for 8 years (I don't think that matters)

Probably will have to wait five years before I apply.

[Arkady]

When I asked a few years ago, PRs' are required to wait 5 years before applying for citizenship. Is this still the case? I have been on the Yellow book for more than 6 years, but just recently received PR.

I would advise you to go and ask Special Branch about this, if you want to apply now. I know of at least one person, not married to a Thai, who got his Thai citizenship, having applied only 3 years after getting PR. On the other hand, when my application was knocked back by the MoI to SB for them to correct their silly mistake (unrelated to the 5 year residency requirement), it came in a batch of about 7 or 8 rejected files which they showed me. I asked SB what was the problem with the other applications and they told me most had applied with less than 5 years' PR. The others were rejected after the MoI interview which meant they were completely rejected and had to apply again from scratch. Luckily mine was withdrawn before the interview and could be corrected with another 6 months' delay.

SB explained to me that, because the Nationality Act specifies only "5 years residence in the Kingdom", they cannot stop PRs from applying before they have been 5 years in a blue tabien baan, despite the fact that the MoI guidelines stipulate that. It seemed that sometimes the MoI committee has let them through and sometimes not.

In your case, seeing as it took an inordinate time for the MoI to approve your PR without good cause, I would think you would have a prima facie case to sue them in the Administrative Court, if you were rejected for not being in a blue tabien baan for 5 years. That's, of course, if the new constitution doesn't deprive people of the right to sue government departments in the Admin Court, which is the case in the current draft. As things stand, they are very scared about being sued in the Admin Court.

Anyway, you have little to lose, if SB will accept your application now. Even, if you get knocked back by the MoI, it is likely to happen before 5 years and would not count against a follow up application. Now is the time to try when they are under pressure from the current minister to introduce more fairness and transparency to the citizenship and PR processes.

[THAIJAMES]

When I asked a few years ago, PRs' are required to wait 5 years before applying for citizenship. Is this still the case? I have been on the Yellow book for more than 6 years, but just recently received PR.

I would advise you to go and ask Special Branch about this, if you want to apply now. I know of at least one person, not married to a Thai, who got his Thai citizenship, having applied only 3 years after getting PR. On the other hand, when my application was knocked back by the MoI to SB for them to correct their silly mistake (unrelated to the 5 year residency requirement), it came in a batch of about 7 or 8 rejected files which they showed me. I asked SB what was the problem with the other applications and they told me most had applied with less than 5 years' PR. The others were rejected after the MoI interview which meant they were completely rejected and had to apply again from scratch. Luckily mine was withdrawn before the interview and could be corrected with another 6 months' delay.

SB explained to me that, because the Nationality Act specifies only "5 years residence in the Kingdom", they cannot stop PRs from applying before they have been 5 years in a blue tabien baan, despite the fact that the MoI guidelines stipulate that. It seemed that sometimes the MoI committee has let them through and sometimes not.

In your case, seeing as it took an inordinate time for the MoI to approve your PR without good cause, I would think you would have a prima facie case to sue them in the Administrative Court, if you were rejected for not being in a blue tabien baan for 5 years. That's, of course, if the new constitution doesn't deprive people of the right to sue government departments in the Admin Court, which is the case in the current draft. As things stand, they are very scared about being sued in the Admin Court.

Anyway, you have little to lose, if SB will accept your application now. Even, if you get knocked back by the MoI, it is likely to happen before 5 years and would not count against a follow up application. Now is the time to try when they are under pressure from the current minister to introduce more fairness and transparency to the citizenship and PR processes.

Thank you Arkady for your valuable insight.

I have multiple issues to consider, first I am based in Chiang Mai. I went to Special Branch Chiang Mai a couple of years ago and they told me that I would have to wait 5 years after the PR. I suspect based on your insight, that he gave me a stock answer and that he does not truly know.

What was disturbing at the time is that he told me that he had hundreds of applications that were filed and that no one had received citizenship since he had been working there.

I don't know if that is still the case, I will need to pay them a visit and if so I may have no option but to move my bluebook to Bangkok.

Maybe find a contact for the MOI in Chiang Mai?

For right now I am not in a hurry to get citizenship and don't mind waiting the 5 years.

I am still confused about:

Domicile:

Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years but no Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate – 5 points

Has evidence of civil registration showing domicile in Thailand for at least 5 years and has Certificate of Residence or Alien Registration Certificate for at least 5 years – 10 points

How can you provide evidence of civil registration. Would that be the yellow tabien naan? continuous visas?

I guess under the above point system I would get no points for my PR?

Thank you for you big help and valuable advice.

[pattayamick]

My agent has advised me to fly back to BKK and take the oath at SB, So I will do that this coming week. She is talking about a large batch of 200 applications that has been approved, and SB needs to send as many as possible forward in the system for publication in RG in one go.

For those of you who have previously been through this.

How long time in your experience will it take approximately from the Oath taking till the actual Thai National Certificate is issued.

Thank you.

[pattayamick]

SB just told me (actually my secretary) by phone that my application had been signed by the palace (along with a couple of hundred others). A letter is supposedly on its way. I submitted my application to SB in Jan 2008.

I am wondering how long the remaining stages are likely to take. I am guessing the longest wait is from taking the oath to the announcement in the Royal Gazette.

Congratulations. It usually takes about 4-5 months from oath to RG, provided there is a serving IM in place to approve the RG announcement. You get the paperwork 4-6 weeks after that, depending on how large the batches are.

Ok. I Just found the answer. Thanks

[jamesthailand]

When I went to take my oath last week, SB said they were aiming to get the names published in the Royal Gazette in 5 months. They said that it would take them two months just to complete the fingerprint checking of such a large batch.