Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[GarryP]

http://rdserver.rd.go.th/publish/index.php This is the e-filing link. 

 

As to the other issues, I have no idea as I never had PR. 

[skippybangkok]

http://rdserver.rd.go.th/publish/index.php This is the e-filing link. 
 
As to the other issues, I have no idea as I never had PR. 

Thx


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[ThaiCitizen]

Hi everyone and thanks for a great thread.

 

I think I qualify to get Thai citizenship and am currently looking at the documents required to apply.

 

Looking at

1.                 1.  Alien registration book – what I this?

2.                2.  Certificate of residence – is my yellow book OK for this?

      15. ID card of witnesses -  do they need to write a letter to attest my good conduct?

      16. Affidavit confirming age of majority -  does the British embassy provide this?

      17. Affidavit of my intention to renounce my current nationality – is this still required?

     

Quite excited about the whole process and hope to get some help from those with experience.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

ThaiCitizen

[ubonjoe]

On 1/11/2017 at 0:28 PM, ThaiCitizen said:

Looking at

 

1.                 1.  Alien registration book – what I this?

 

2.                2.  Certificate of residence – is my yellow book OK for this?

 

      15. ID card of witnesses -  do they need to write a letter to attest my good conduct?

 

      16. Affidavit confirming age of majority -  does the British embassy provide this?

 

      17. Affidavit of my intention to renounce my current nationality – is this still required?

1/2 Thai is required if you have permanent residency.

15/16/17 I think those are explained here clearly.  Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization 

Affidavit means you do a statement witnessed by the embassy.

[ThaiCitizen]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

1/2 Thai is required if you have permanent residency.

15/16/17 I think those are explained here clearly.  Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization 

Affidavit means you do a statement witnessed by the embassy.

Thanks Ubonjoe for your reply.

1 and 2  - Did you mean “These” are required? A bit confused as to what Thai is required means.

I don’t have PR, I’m going the way of being married to a Thai, which I have for 16 years.

So I don’t need 1 and 2 – is this what you are saying?

 

15.16.17  - the link you gave don’t work.

 

16/17. OK got it, that’s no problem.

Does anyone know if the British embassy has these documents already or do I have to write them up myself?

 

I went to the Santibaan(Special Branch) where they gave me a list of documents.

 

15. Two witnesses are required to attest my good conduct. Maybe someone who has gone through this process can tell me if these people have to come with me when applying or just write a letter.

 

Thanks in advance.

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

So I don’t need 1 and 2 – is this what you are saying?

 

Yes those are only required if you have permanent residence.

This should work. Guidelines_for_Application_for_Naturalization_14__Oct_2009_EN.pdf

43 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

Does anyone know if the British embassy has these documents already or do I have to write them up myself?

You will have to write it yourself.

[skippybangkok]

Update - already travelled over seas forgetting to return the red and white book. Obviously not an issue - will get around to it one day


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[Arkady]

On 1/15/2017 at 9:15 AM, skippybangkok said:

Update - already travelled over seas forgetting to return the red and white book. Obviously not an issue - will get around to it one day


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Interesting. I assumed that might cause an issue at Immigration, similar to others who enter on one passport and try to leave on another. 

[Arkady]

On 1/13/2017 at 10:33 AM, ThaiCitizen said:

Thanks Ubonjoe for your reply.

 

1 and 2  - Did you mean “These” are required? A bit confused as to what Thai is required means.

 

I don’t have PR, I’m going the way of being married to a Thai, which I have for 16 years.

 

So I don’t need 1 and 2 – is this what you are saying?

 

 

 

15.16.17  - the link you gave don’t work.

 

 

 

16/17. OK got it, that’s no problem.

 

Does anyone know if the British embassy has these documents already or do I have to write them up myself?

 

 

 

I went to the Santibaan(Special Branch) where they gave me a list of documents.

 

 

 

15. Two witnesses are required to attest my good conduct. Maybe someone who has gone through this process can tell me if these people have to come with me when applying or just write a letter.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

1 and 2 are only required, if you have them (by virtue of having permanent residence).  Thus in your case they are not required.

 

I went to the trouble of getting the document from the UK Embassy affirming that at my advanced age (causing some mirth from the vice-consul) I had already reached the age of majority in my country.  Got it translated and then whent through the PITA of getting notarised by the MoFA at CW. Only to be told that it was only required from certain nationalities (why?) and the UK was not one of them.  I would recommend you check with SB whether this is still not required from Brits. I wish I had. 

 

17 is still required AFAIK and, no, the embassies have no standard format for this but they do have blank forms for you.  You make a brief declaration in writing on their blank form and they type it up and witness your signature on it.  Then you translate it and MoFA it.  SB may have some English wording for you as a guideline, if you ask them.  When I did it, I asked them for the wording and they reversed the question and asked me for some wording which they later passed on to others (which I took as a compliment) but that was a few years ago now.  I think any sensible wording will do but better check with them what is current practice, as things change.

 

SB does a proforma interview with your witnesses.  Sometimes they are asked to come to the office and sometimes just to sign proforma interview write-ups post facto, depending on your case officer and the current regime at SB.  Bear in mind when inviting people to be witnesses that any Thais who have known you for the requisite period of time will do.  Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to find the biggest pu yai possible to do this and, if you do, it won't speed up your application, unless your pu yai are also able and willing to intervene decisively on your behalf (under the current govt there is hardly any need for that anyway).  Staff, co-workers or anyone who appears vaguely respectable to vouch for you will do perfectly well.  Do bear in mind that your witnesses will be asked to disclose their salaries on the form they will have to hand back to you.  This mitigates firmly against choosing pu yai in my opinion.

[greenchair]

On 31/12/2016 at 9:59 PM, skippybangkok said:

Ya dbrenn - the thought passed my mind. At the time I was working for a Yellow leaning company when reds were in power. Would not surprise me if I was thrown on the bottom of the heap. Most probable cause in my mind cause if look at all the criteria, I aced everything- especially yearly tax contributions


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That's not a reasonable presumption at all. 

[greenchair]

17 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

 

1 and 2 are only required, if you have them (by virtue of having permanent residence).  Thus in your case they are not required.

 

I went to the trouble of getting the document from the UK Embassy affirming that at my advanced age (causing some mirth from the vice-consul) I had already reached the age of majority in my country.  Got it translated and then whent through the PITA of getting notarised by the MoFA at CW. Only to be told that it was only required from certain nationalities (why?) and the UK was not one of them.  I would recommend you check with SB whether this is still not required from Brits. I wish I had. 

 

17 is still required AFAIK and, no, the embassies have no standard format for this but they do have blank forms for you.  You make a brief declaration in writing on their blank form and they type it up and witness your signature on it.  Then you translate it and MoFA it.  SB may have some English wording for you as a guideline, if you ask them.  When I did it, I asked them for the wording and they reversed the question and asked me for some wording which they later passed on to others (which I took as a compliment) but that was a few years ago now.  I think any sensible wording will do but better check with them what is current practice, as things change.

 

SB does a proforma interview with your witnesses.  Sometimes they are asked to come to the office and sometimes just to sign proforma interview write-ups post facto, depending on your case officer and the current regime at SB.  Bear in mind when inviting people to be witnesses that any T8hais who have known you for the requisite period of time will do.  Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to find the biggest pu yai possible to do this and, if you do, it won't speed up your application, unless your pu yai are also able and willing to intervene decisively on your behalf (under the current govt there is hardly any need for that anyway).  Staff, co-workers or anyone who appears vaguely respectable to vouch for you will do perfectly well.  Do bear in mind that your witnesses will be asked to disclose their salaries on the form they will have to hand back to you.  This mitigates firmly against choosing pu yai in my opinion.

I don't understand your 17. 

Perhaps they were just indulging your request to sign a form to renounce your citizenship. 

I was never asked to write any such letter and I don't know of any other person that did this. 

Perhaps there is no form, because it is not a requirement to renounce your citizenship on a form. 

As for witnesses, my witnesses did not need to declare their salary. They only needed to send their id card copy and a letter to say how long they knew us. There was no interview. 

[USPatriot]

Congratulations I doubt there is anything harder to do in thailand  the process may take a long time due to they issue so few people citizenship. I hear it is 150 people a year

[greenchair]

5 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Congratulations I doubt there is anything harder to do in thailand  the process may take a long time due to they issue so few people citizenship. I hear it is 150 people a year

 

I heard it's a hundred per year. 

That's per nationality. 

[skippybangkok]

 
I heard it's a hundred per year. 
That's per nationality. 

Could be wrong , but I believe that's for PR


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[ubonjoe]

18 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Congratulations I doubt there is anything harder to do in thailand  the process may take a long time due to they issue so few people citizenship. I hear it is 150 people a year

The number issued per year depends upon how many completed the process. They announced several hundred last year.

13 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

I heard it's a hundred per year. 

That's per nationality. 

There is no limit per country for citizenship. That is for permanent residency.

[Arkady]

On 1/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, greenchair said:

I don't understand your 17. 

Perhaps they were just indulging your request to sign a form to renounce your citizenship. 

I was never asked to write any such letter and I don't know of any other person that did this. 

Perhaps there is no form, because it is not a requirement to renounce your citizenship on a form. 

As for witnesses, my witnesses did not need to declare their salary. They only needed to send their id card copy and a letter to say how long they knew us. There was no interview. 

 

I was just saying what happened in my case in the hope that my experience might be helpful to current and prospective applicants. Things change, depending on who is in charge at the MoI and SB and others may be treated differently on a case by case basis. I am not going to get involved in an argument about this.

 

As I mentioned, the interview was conducted on a pro-forma basis, meaning that the officer filled in the interview pro-forma without the witnesses being present, e.g. yes, I can confirm that the applicant has a condo purchased for xx million and has xx million in his bank account with xxx Bank Plc. The answers simply confirmed hard facts for which the officer already has irrefutable evidence or soft facts like how many years have you known the applicant.  I would guess that the vast majority of applicants have no idea that this process has even taken place but I would be willing to bet that this is still what happens.   I still have copies of the forms that my witnesses were asked to sign requested details of their employment and salaries.  Perhaps this form is no longer required, or perhaps it still is.

 

17 was also as I described it. No indulgence from any party was involved.  Things in this respect were different immediately before that and might well have changed again. 

 

 

 

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The number issued per year depends upon how many completed the process. They announced several hundred last year.

There is no limit per country for citizenship. That is for permanent residency.

 

The notion of 150 per year probably comes from an analysis I posted in this thread several years ago showing that the average annual number of people being naturalised combined with women adopting Thai husband's natiaonality (which doesn't count as naturalisation under the Nationality Act) from 2005 to 2012 was 157.5.  The average has gone up since then due to the current government's policy to introduce more transparency and efficiency into the process.  508 were approved in 2014, including  a large batch of 400 women adopting hubby's Thai nationality.  I haven't run the numbers for 2015 and 2016 but I am sure they are over the 2005-12 average.

 

The Nationality Act does not impose any limits on overall numbers or quotas by former nationality. The concept of quotas exists only in the Immigration Act vis a vis permanent residence.  This emanated from a desire by the Phibun government to curb Chinese immigration in the wake of the communist takeover in China. At that time PR was the only way to stay in the Kingdom for more than 3 months at a time and work permits were not required.  That effectively put an end to mass Chinese immigration that had been running at up to 5,000 a year.

[ThaiCitizen]

On 21/01/2017 at 1:31 PM, Arkady said:

 

 

1 and 2 are only required, if you have them (by virtue of having permanent residence).  Thus in your case they are not required.

 

I went to the trouble of getting the document from the UK Embassy affirming that at my advanced age (causing some mirth from the vice-consul) I had already reached the age of majority in my country.  Got it translated and then whent through the PITA of getting notarised by the MoFA at CW. Only to be told that it was only required from certain nationalities (why?) and the UK was not one of them.  I would recommend you check with SB whether this is still not required from Brits. I wish I had. 

 

17 is still required AFAIK and, no, the embassies have no standard format for this but they do have blank forms for you.  You make a brief declaration in writing on their blank form and they type it up and witness your signature on it.  Then you translate it and MoFA it.  SB may have some English wording for you as a guideline, if you ask them.  When I did it, I asked them for the wording and they reversed the question and asked me for some wording which they later passed on to others (which I took as a compliment) but that was a few years ago now.  I think any sensible wording will do but better check with them what is current practice, as things change.

 

SB does a proforma interview with your witnesses.  Sometimes they are asked to come to the office and sometimes just to sign proforma interview write-ups post facto, depending on your case officer and the current regime at SB.  Bear in mind when inviting people to be witnesses that any Thais who have known you for the requisite period of time will do.  Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to find the biggest pu yai possible to do this and, if you do, it won't speed up your application, unless your pu yai are also able and willing to intervene decisively on your behalf (under the current govt there is hardly any need for that anyway).  Staff, co-workers or anyone who appears vaguely respectable to vouch for you will do perfectly well.  Do bear in mind that your witnesses will be asked to disclose their salaries on the form they will have to hand back to you.  This mitigates firmly against choosing pu yai in my opinion.

Thank you, very helpful!

[skippybangkok]

Not all Thais are equal - seems we naturalised citz have to bring our certificates as well to buy land, not just Thai ID


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[GarryP]

2 minutes ago, skippybangkok said:

Not all Thais are equal - seems we naturalised citz have to bring our certificates as well to buy land, not just Thai ID


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I just used my ID card.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Me too.


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[skippybangkok]

Cheers - then I have a banal land department. I asked her why people need to bring documents to like birth certificates


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[Arkady]

On 2/16/2017 at 7:47 AM, skippybangkok said:

Cheers - then I have a banal land department. I asked her why people need to bring documents to like birth certificates


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I have been asked for a copy of my naturalisation certificate on buying land at a land office in Bangkok and at one upcountry.  A tiny bit irritating, but anyway it is just a silly bit of bureaucracy that is easy enough to deal with, if you know in advance.  At least they don't ask for the original like Bangkok Bank did and the first time it happened to me in the Land Dept they let me get a copy of it faxed to their office. Bureaucrats are terrified of getting into trouble for something they shouldn't have approved (and didn't even make money out of), so they see it as just covering their bums rather than discrimination against naturalised Thais.

[SomtamSally]

I'm trying to download the link for requirements for Thai citizenship (in Thai) but the link doesn't work.

 

Can alnyone help?

 

[skippybangkok]

I'm trying to download the link for requirements for Thai citizenship (in Thai) but the link doesn't work.
 
Can alnyone help?
 

Yep

As I mentioned before - go Visit SB and they will look at your documents. I thought I did not qualify for another few years, I was wrong


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[Arkady]

7 hours ago, SomtamSally said:

I'm trying to download the link for requirements for Thai citizenship (in Thai) but the link doesn't work.

 

Can alnyone help?

 

 

SB has a new website and it's all working for me at the moment. Here is the page with the downloads re applying for Thai nationality http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php. There are some fancy new downloads in English too.  But Skippy is right.  You really have to go and visit SB with your documents, if you are ready to apply or want to find out what you need to qualify.  There are many important things they can tell you that are not published anywhere.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Hello everyone, and congratulations to those of you who got Thai citizenship recently. I'm getting interested in the topic myself and I meet the requirement (I'm PR holder since end 2012). After reading the whole thread, I have this first set of questions that may interest others as well :

 

It's said early in this thread that the Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

- (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

- (5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years

 

• How about flying to Europe but you enter back Thailand with a Thai passport that has no visa from the flight destination, isn't this proof of dual nationality usage?
• I also heard that you sometimes have to show your foreign passport to the Thai custom officers, isn't this meeting (2) and a violation?
• Is (5) still true today? Has anyone with acquired citizenship been more than 5 years abroad and got in without any trouble?

As of today, I checked the points system and I have either ways of 

- Going for PR reason and it seems I'd start with 70 more or less secured points, but I have to wait for Feb 2018 

- Going for Marriage reason and it seems I'd start with 52 points secured (excluding thai language test), I could start now

• When you apply for marriage reason, beside the dropped singing and police interview, do you still have a language tests and can get the points as for PR reason? then I might get more than the more or less secured 52 points I mention
• What do you think should be my best option (considering the time it takes in both process)?

Thank you in advance for your help and your time.

[GarryP]

2 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Hello everyone, and congratulations to those of you who got Thai citizenship recently. I'm getting interested in the topic myself and I meet the requirement (I'm PR holder since end 2012). After reading the whole thread, I have this first set of questions that may interest others as well :

 

It's said early in this thread that the Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

- (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

- (5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years

 

• How about flying to Europe but you enter back Thailand with a Thai passport that has no visa from the flight destination, isn't this proof of dual nationality usage?
• I also heard that you sometimes have to show your foreign passport to the Thai custom officers, isn't this meeting (2) and a violation?
• Is (5) still true today? Has anyone with acquired citizenship been more than 5 years abroad and got in without any trouble?

As of today, I checked the points system and I have either ways of 

- Going for PR reason and it seems I'd start with 70 more or less secured points, but I have to wait for Feb 2018 

- Going for Marriage reason and it seems I'd start with 52 points secured (excluding thai language test), I could start now

• When you apply for marriage reason, beside the dropped singing and police interview, do you still have a language tests and can get the points as for PR reason? then I might get more than the more or less secured 52 points I mention
• What do you think should be my best option (considering the time it takes in both process)?

Thank you in advance for your help and your time.

• When you enter Thailand on your Thai passport, no one checks where you have come from or whether you got a visa for that country. In fact if you go through the automatic arrivals gates no one checks anything. 
• You do not need to show your foreign passport to customs. The only time you would show your foreign passport is when checking in with the airline. They are not allowed to let you board if you do not have a valid visa. So in my case, as I was traveling to the UK I showed them both my Thai and UK passport. Boarding pass issued, UK passport zipped up in my bag out of sight. Only Thai passport is presented at immigration. 
• I do not know the answer to the 5 year question.

 

I never had PR and applied based on marriage to a Thai. If you have been married for more than 3 years and have the requisite work permit, tax returns, etc. you could apply based on marriage now without having to wait. While the singing is dropped, you still have to go through the interview. Someone with 90 points has no real advantage over someone with 52 points. If you have 50 points, you qualify and that's it. I think it was Arkady who told me that the police do not even tell BoRA your score when your application is passed on to them. It is the responsibility of the police to make sure you meet the minimum requirements and that is what BoRA is concerned about, i.e. your application would not have passed screening and been passed on to BoRA 

 

If you qualify based on marriage, I would take that route, but then I am tone deaf and would have been so nervous I am sure I would have screwed up the Royal and National anthems.  

[yankee99]

Who exactly does the scoring and when is it calculated during the application process?

[GarryP]

8 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Who exactly does the scoring and when is it calculated during the application process?

Special Branch. They have a score sheet. However, you can see a breakdown of the points system in one of the earlier posts. So you can pretty much determine your points in advance.