Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Arkady]

53 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Actually, in Thai culture one can overdress, I'd suggest nothing fancy or too formal, which could make the interviewers feel 'less than'. Smart but casual would the best.  Shirt and tie, but certainly not your RBSC tie or an Armani suit. They love to feel superior and in control.

I presume that all the applicants that show up in polo shirts, jeans and sandals get their Thai nationality anyway, if there are no  legal grounds to reject them, but if you were borderline on some issue, they might decide not to give you the benefit of the doubt, if your personal presentation made a negative impression.  I agree that wearing a flashy double breasted designer suit in mauve or dripping with 10 baht gold bracelets and rings like Liberace might put them off but I see nothing wrong with an RBSC tie to denote you are well integrated with Thai society.  I didn't wear mine but I did pull it out of the wardrobe for Mrs Arkady's consideration on that day.  I think in the end we decided on the Harvard Business School tie instead.  The word you always hear Thais say for respectable dress is "suparb".  I would say a classic type of suit with a conservative tie and no or minimal jewellery is the closest to "suparb" for a male applicant in this context.  The  bare minimum I would suggest would be a long sleeved shirt and tie without jacket.  Wives or female applicants should probably wear a conservative skirt and blouse or suit, avoiding short skirts, low cut blouses, see-throughs and excessive or flashy jewellery.  

 

Post scriptum:  A few years after my interview, Mrs Arkady and I were doing some business in a government department and met the deputy head of the department, who to our surprise turned out to have been one of the 15 officials on my interview panel.  He remembered us well including the details of the discussion because they had asked me some tough questions about economics, finance and the outlook for the gold price - not to catch me out but because they were interested in the answers. He also said I was by far the best singer of that batch - blush - which made me realise how awful the others must have been. We obviously made a decent impression in the interview, although Mrs Arkady was only on the sidelines, as I applied as a PR, and also made a friend who made it easier to get our later business done.    

[onthemoon]

Thanks for the answers about the dress code. I guess I'll come in my usual business attire; it will make me feel comfortable and will be suparb.

[choonsan]

I had my interview at MOI (Lumluka DOPA) end May last year. 

Still no news from SB regarding the Royal Gazette.

[danielcondo]

Hi there,

 

I am currently in the process of applying for Thai citizenship, i have been living in Thailand on and off for almost 14 years and went to University there as well, Did my bachelors and Part of my Masters from there and have degrees issued from a University in Bangkok,  I also have a baby who is an infant at the moment with my wife, been working legally in Thailand for over 5 years, been paying Taxes, salary over the required amount. At present i have already completed the process at the Police HQ and now the file will be sent to the interior ministry. 

 

My questions are basically in regards to a few points that answers vary on depending on who you ask.

 

1. Dual Citizenship : This is a very confusing point since i know a lot of naturalized Thai's who have not given up their previous citizenship, most of these cases varied, some got it through naturalization after being married to a Thai, some got it after getting a residency permit and then completing all the formalities and some have it being half Thai and Half foreign ( born abroad as well as born in Thailand ) . Now that being said if you ask an official they will always say it is not allowed and you are asked to renounce your Previous citizenship if you get your Thai, they even make you ask your embassy for an affidavit stating that you will renounce your citizenship, now in my case my county does not have any issues with Dual Nationality however they are aware that the Thai government officially does not allow it, so when i made the affidavit it just stated that my country has no objection to me applying for Thai citizenship however i was informed by my embassy that the Thai government does not allow it, the interior ministry usually sends out a letter to the embassy asking to verify if the person applying will renounce their citizenship usually in such cases the embassy doesn't respond or just simply states that the person came and made an affidavit thats all, however so far in my case the officials at the Thai side didn't make any issues with it when i provided the original and translation in Thai, any feed back in regards to this ? other stories or experiences ? 

 

2. Thai Language - In my case my Thai language skills are not at the level they need to be, however i can manage on a daily basis, getting Thai citizenship is another story as they require you to be able to speak on a professional level, in my case i have managed to pass the First part but i was told that the interior ministry will be much more harder and i need to improve my Thai in order to pass that part, now from a lot of information and articles i have been reading,  i read that if a foreign spouse married with a Thai and has a child together the language proficiency is not a really strongly enforced point, as long as you are able to answer basic questions and sing the national anthem, they can not fail you on the basis of the fact that you can not speak Thai fluently. However in the cases of Naturalized thai's who got citizenship through residence and who do not have a thai spouse or links to Thailand they expect you to speak Thai fluently, in a way they are more biased towards them. Is this true ? any feedback or experience regarding this would be appreciated. Lastly will i be required to sing the National Anthem as many people said they didn't ? 

 

I have been given a timeframe of around 2 years because they said i met alot of points which add to my case such as Studied in Thailand in university, have a Thai wife for a few years and also have a baby,  proper tax documents, a lot of history of charity work in Thailand, etc.. my only concerns are the above two points.

 

Any feedback would be much appreciated. 

 

P.s my main purpose of getting Thai citizenship is because we will most likely live here forever, i love this country like my own and because i would like to own my house in my own name, i know about all the loopholes and ways to get around that but i prefer keeping it legal and doing it the right way.

 

Danson, 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by danielcondo

[Big Guns]

I can only help with the 2nd point. If you have enough points you don't really need Thai language skills. I can't really speak Thai only some words and phrases. I can't construct sentences, I can't have a conversation and I can't really answer any question in Thai. I passed the MOI interview an recently did the oath. I would say try to improve your Thai language but don't get too stressed about it because if you're married you don't need proficiency in Thai language.

[Arkady]

56 minutes ago, danielcondo said:

Hi there,

 

I am currently in the process of applying for Thai citizenship, i have been living in Thailand on and off for almost 14 years and went to University there as well, Did my bachelors and Part of my Masters from there and have degrees issued from a University in Bangkok,  I also have a baby who is an infant at the moment with my wife, been working legally in Thailand for over 5 years, been paying Taxes, salary over the required amount. At present i have already completed the process at the Police HQ and now the file will be sent to the interior ministry. 

 

My questions are basically in regards to a few points that answers vary on depending on who you ask.

 

1. Dual Citizenship : This is a very confusing point since i know a lot of naturalized Thai's who have not given up their previous citizenship, most of these cases varied, some got it through naturalization after being married to a Thai, some got it after getting a residency permit and then completing all the formalities and some have it being half Thai and Half foreign ( born abroad as well as born in Thailand ) . Now that being said if you ask an official they will always say it is not allowed and you are asked to renounce your Previous citizenship if you get your Thai, they even make you ask your embassy for an affidavit stating that you will renounce your citizenship, now in my case my county does not have any issues with Dual Nationality however they are aware that the Thai government officially does not allow it, so when i made the affidavit it just stated that my country has no objection to me applying for Thai citizenship however i was informed by my embassy that the Thai government does not allow it, the interior ministry usually sends out a letter to the embassy asking to verify if the person applying will renounce their citizenship usually in such cases the embassy doesn't respond or just simply states that the person came and made an affidavit thats all, however so far in my case the officials at the Thai side didn't make any issues with it when i provided the original and translation in Thai, any feed back in regards to this ? other stories or experiences ? 

 

2. Thai Language - In my case my Thai language skills are not at the level they need to be, however i can manage on a daily basis, getting Thai citizenship is another story as they require you to be able to speak on a professional level, in my case i have managed to pass the First part but i was told that the interior ministry will be much more harder and i need to improve my Thai in order to pass that part, now from a lot of information and articles i have been reading,  i read that if a foreign spouse married with a Thai and has a child together the language proficiency is not a really strongly enforced point, as long as you are able to answer basic questions and sing the national anthem, they can not fail you on the basis of the fact that you can not speak Thai fluently. However in the cases of Naturalized thai's who got citizenship through residence and who do not have a thai spouse or links to Thailand they expect you to speak Thai fluently, in a way they are more biased towards them. Is this true ? any feedback or experience regarding this would be appreciated. Lastly will i be required to sing the National Anthem as many people said they didn't ? 

 

I have been given a timeframe of around 2 years because they said i met alot of points which add to my case such as Studied in Thailand in university, have a Thai wife for a few years and also have a baby,  proper tax documents, a lot of history of charity work in Thailand, etc.. my only concerns are the above two points.

 

Any feedback would be much appreciated. 

 

P.s my main purpose of getting Thai citizenship is because we will most likely live here forever, i love this country like my own and because i would like to own my house in my own name, i know about all the loopholes and ways to get around that but i prefer keeping it legal and doing it the right way.

 

Danson, 

 

 

 

 

There is no evidence that ostensibly better qualified candidates get any priority consideration.  There is only pass or fail and I believe that everyone takes their place in the queue, except for the very few cases of applicants with high level connections who are able to go into bat for them at ministerial level. Even so, that might not make much difference under the military government which has made a big effort to clean up the process, eliminate bottlenecks deliberately created by politicians and bureaucrats and introduce greater efficiency and transparency.  If they told you to expect a two year time horizon, that means that is the current par for the course but that is much, much better than it has been under civilian governments, when SB just used to say they had no idea how long it might take after they had done their part. 

 

If you are applying on the basis of having a Thai wife, you are correct in saying that the requirement for knowledge of the Thai language is  explicitly waived in the Nationality  Act, as per the 2008 amendments.  It makes no difference on this point, if you also have a Thai child or not, since they are not mentioned in the Act.  However, if you have a child with your Thai wife, you only need to have been legally married for one year instead of three, according to the ministerial guidelines,  provided you meet all the other qualifications.  The crunch point vis a vis Thai language for those applying on the basis of PR is usually the singing.  It is probably easy for the committee to agree that someone failed the singing test, rather than not speaking good enough Thai in the interview, and it is quite likely that those who can't sing in Thai also speak it badly,  although some poor souls may be simply tone deaf.  I have heard of many people made to interview again for failing the singing test but I have never heard of anyone being rejected for not speaking Thai well enough.   You won't be required to sing, if your application is on the basis of marriage to a Thai.  So you should have nothing to fear.  Apart from making an effort with regular Thai lessons, you should practice the interview with someone asking you to introduce yourself and asking you questions your work, your family, why you want to stay in Thailand, why you don't mind renouncing existing citizenship etc etc.  Get them to change the questions around, so that by the time you get to LamLukka, you have already practiced a wide range of scenarios.

 

I recommend that you read the Nationality Act from beginning to end.  Here it is in translation amended up till the most recent recent amendments of 2012 Thailand Nationality Act EN amended until 2012.pdf .  That will give you a much better idea of the legal framework under which SB and the MoI are operating. You will see that dual nationality is neither explicitly permitted, nor prohibited but there are certain circumstances under which the citizenship of naturalised Thais can be revoked.  There are also some ambiguities in the Act surrounding those who are Thai from birth (but no known cases of them ever having their nationality revoked).  However, the new constitution has just resolved this with a provision that states Thai nationality cannot be involuntarily revoked from anyone who is Thai from birth. In the light of this officials that tell you that dual nationality is illegal are either ignorant or deliberately misleading you.  Bear in mind that the vast majority of Thai dual nationals are Thai from birth, either Thais who have naturalised as aliens or look krung, now thousands upon thousands of them, and they now have full constitutional protection for their status. Bear in mind that you won't enjoy such protection but it sounds like you have done the right thing with your declaration etc.

 

 

 

[danielcondo]

Thanks for the detailed reply Arkady, very helpful information.

 

Big Guns, could you please give us some more details about what exactly happened at the MOI interview, including the kind of questions they asked and how you were able to answer them if you cant speak much Thai? did they focus more on your wife and ask her the majority of the questions ? a run down of that would be very very helpful, also im guessing they didn't make you sing the national anthem either right ?

 

Thanks, 

[SABloke]

On 5/29/2017 at 6:04 AM, sathuluv said:

Since, I submitted the SB officer mentioned my case is straight forward, 3 years continued tax returns, work permit, biological child, legally registered marriage and having good education (masters) with reasonable Thai.

 

Hi Sathuluv,

 

Do you mind if I ask about your statement regarding the tax returns: Were your extensions of stay continuous for the same period? I ask, because I read that one must be on an unbroken run of extensions in order to apply, but this is the first mention I hear of them putting weight on the tax returns. I had 5 years continuous extensions of stay for work until this year when I left and came back with a new Non-Immigrant visa (My tax records do cover 5 years and are continuing). 

 

I wonder (open question to the forum) whether I would be allowed to apply or whether my new visa has reset my process to day zero? 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post in reply to a 10 year old post has been removed.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, SABloke said:

Hi Sathuluv,

 

Do you mind if I ask about your statement regarding the tax returns: Were your extensions of stay continuous for the same period? I ask, because I read that one must be on an unbroken run of extensions in order to apply, but this is the first mention I hear of them putting weight on the tax returns. I had 5 years continuous extensions of stay for work until this year when I left and came back with a new Non-Immigrant visa (My tax records do cover 5 years and are continuing). 

 

I wonder (open question to the forum) whether I would be allowed to apply or whether my new visa has reset my process to day zero? 

My understanding is that you must have been on the same work permit (I mean same company, since the book itself can sometimes be renewed) for three continuous years, at the time you apply.

Edited June 2, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey
precision

[sathuluv]

Hi Sathuluv,
 
Do you mind if I ask about your statement regarding the tax returns: Were your extensions of stay continuous for the same period? I ask, because I read that one must be on an unbroken run of extensions in order to apply, but this is the first mention I hear of them putting weight on the tax returns. I had 5 years continuous extensions of stay for work until this year when I left and came back with a new Non-Immigrant visa (My tax records do cover 5 years and are continuing). 
 
I wonder (open question to the forum) whether I would be allowed to apply or whether my new visa has reset my process to day zero? 

Hi SABloke
Yes, I was working for the same company and work permit and tax returns were continuous.
Nevertheless, you can have multiple job change but, there shouldn't be any gap between the job change as then it will break the period of stay and tax returns.

If you have a break of over a week or so is considered as a break and start again. This is what has been told by the SB officer to me. I been working in Thailand since,2004-2010. Went to another location and back in 2013. The old work permit has no meaning during my application. They looked the present date and backwards 3 years or 1 year if having child.

Hope this helps.





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[Arkady]

6 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

My understanding is that you must have been on the same work permit (I mean same company, since the book itself can sometimes be renewed) for three continuous years, at the time you apply.

 No need to have the same work permit during the three year qualifying period before applying. I changed jobs the year before I applied and so have several others.  But it is critical that you do whatever it takes to make the transition between WPs seamless.  I ended up having a 3 day gap due to incompetence in my new company's HR dept, something that is unfortunately hard to avoid in large Thai companies.  As has been suggested a gap of a week  should probably be regarded as the outer limit before you might have to go back to the beginning and start the 3-year period again.  It doesn't matter about the renewal of the book.  In practice 2-year WPs are the maximum you can get but 1-year renewals or less are fine as long as they are continuous. As I have said here many times before, if you change jobs, demand to get the cancelled WP back, as is your right under the 2008 Working of Aliens Act, because you will need it.  Take a copy of the law in Thai with you to the Labour Ministry, if necessary.  It is very specific on that point.  

[GabbaGabbaHey]

12 hours ago, Arkady said:

 No need to have the same work permit during the three year qualifying period before applying. I changed jobs the year before I applied and so have several others.  But it is critical that you do whatever it takes to make the transition between WPs seamless.  I ended up having a 3 day gap due to incompetence in my new company's HR dept, something that is unfortunately hard to avoid in large Thai companies.  As has been suggested a gap of a week  should probably be regarded as the outer limit before you might have to go back to the beginning and start the 3-year period again.  It doesn't matter about the renewal of the book.  In practice 2-year WPs are the maximum you can get but 1-year renewals or less are fine as long as they are continuous. As I have said here many times before, if you change jobs, demand to get the cancelled WP back, as is your right under the 2008 Working of Aliens Act, because you will need it.  Take a copy of the law in Thai with you to the Labour Ministry, if necessary.  It is very specific on that point.  

Thanks for this clarification, Arkady, I must have invented or mixed with PR topic. Just, by "renewal" I wasn't talking about yearly extensions but a new work permit book. This happened to me when I got my regular extension this year and I was issued a new-version book while my old one had plenty of empty pages. Since the new one is consequently few months old only, despite my continuous job extensions for many years I had brief fear this could make me fail under "technical reason" but now I feel relaxed on this point. 

 

(btw I'm not sure I understood exactly what a failure for technical reason is, if you could summarize or give examples this would be great).

[Big Guns]

The advice I got from my lawyer for the MOI interview was be prepared to introduce yourself in Thai and make a long introduction so they don't have time to ask you any questions. I got my wife to write down Thai phrases in a Karaoke format and I memorised them. This included my name, age, length of time in Thailand and what my job involves. Then I memorised phrases about why I love Thailand including, culture, food, people, the beach and my wife. When they asked questions my wife translated for me and I answered in a bit of Thai and English. I was a nervous wreck as immediately before the interview the admin lady said my wife couldn't translate and I had to speak perfect Thai. In fact none of this was the case. My advice would be prepare the introduction and on the day relax as your wife can help you. They didn't ask me to sing anything which is a good thing as I'm a terrible singer and the only thing I can sing from memory is the chorus from 'The Blaydon Races'.

[ThaiCitizen]

Hi All, great thread.

Just a few questions. As I’m applying in a new way, I don’t have a SB officer to help me with simple questions.

1-      Do the photos have to be colour? 2 inch x 2 inches? My requirement just say 2x2.

2-      Do I need to copy every page of my old passport and the one before that? I have 2 used ones with Thai visas in them.

3-      Qualifications of children? They’re still at high school, can I ignore this one, or maybe P6 cert is required?

4 - What ir where is Lam Luka?

[ThaiCitizen]

1 hour ago, Big Guns said:

The advice I got from my lawyer for the MOI interview was be prepared to introduce yourself in Thai and make a long introduction so they don't have time to ask you any questions. I got my wife to write down Thai phrases in a Karaoke format and I memorised them. This included my name, age, length of time in Thailand and what my job involves. Then I memorised phrases about why I love Thailand including, culture, food, people, the beach and my wife. When they asked questions my wife translated for me and I answered in a bit of Thai and English. I was a nervous wreck as immediately before the interview the admin lady said my wife couldn't translate and I had to speak perfect Thai. In fact none of this was the case. My advice would be prepare the introduction and on the day relax as your wife can help you. They didn't ask me to sing anything which is a good thing as I'm a terrible singer and the only thing I can sing from memory is the chorus from 'The Blaydon Races'.

Can I ask what are the benefits of using a lawyer. I'm not going to use one.

Also, what is the going rate for such a lawyer?  

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, ThaiCitizen said:

Can I ask what are the benefits of using a lawyer. I'm not going to use one.

Also, what is the going rate for such a lawyer?  

I did not use a lawyer and at no tme along the process did I wish I had. In fact in my case I feel it could have been detrimental. I believe the only real benefits are helping coordinate translations and other clerical stuff, which is easy enough to do yourself anyway. And perhaps coordinating with officials if your Thai language abilities are not so good.

 

BTW my Thai is pretty fluent so I have no problem dealing directly with officialdom.

[red horse]

I had my interview at MOI (Lumluka DOPA) end May last year. 
Still no news from SB regarding the Royal Gazette.

I also interviewed at MOI 31 may last year.still no news about Royal endorsement.if you have any news about this please share.


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[Arkady]

9 hours ago, ThaiCitizen said:

Hi All, great thread.

Just a few questions. As I’m applying in a new way, I don’t have a SB officer to help me with simple questions.

1-      Do the photos have to be colour? 2 inch x 2 inches? My requirement just say 2x2.

2-      Do I need to copy every page of my old passport and the one before that? I have 2 used ones with Thai visas in them.

3-      Qualifications of children? They’re still at high school, can I ignore this one, or maybe P6 cert is required?

4 - What ir where is Lam Luka?

1. Yes, colour.  I did mine with a blue background which I was told was appropriate for government use and they were accepted without comment.

2. Submit copies of passports covering the last three years.  Copy only pages that have something in them.  Don't bother with blank pages. Although the guidelines ask for only 2 copies of passport and work permit but 5 copies of tabien baan, they will normally ask for 5 copies of all, as they make 5 sets to send round to various departments for vetting.  Since you are applying on the basis of marriage, I would suggest submitting 5 copies of marriage cert too.  

3. Lamlukka is to the Northeast of Don Meuang Airport. I don't know the exact location of the Nationality Section's office there, as I was interviewed when they were still at the head office of the Interior Ministry in Asadang Road.   

 

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

19 hours ago, ThaiCitizen said:

1-      Do the photos have to be colour? 2 inch x 2 inches? My requirement just say 2x2.

 

Something not apparent if you read too quickly, the pictures are asked as 2x2.5 inches.

 

 รูปถ่ายของผู้ยื่นค าขอ ฯ ขนาด 2x2 นิ้วครึ่ง  จ านวน 12 รูป และของคู่สมรส จ านวน 3 รูป    (ชายใส่สูทผูกไท หรือชุดพระราชทาน หญิงแต่งกายสุภาพ) 

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Something not apparent if you read too quickly, the pictures are asked as 2x2.5 inches.

 

 รูปถ่ายของผู้ยื่นค าขอ ฯ ขนาด 2x2 นิ้วครึ่ง  จ านวน 12 รูป และของคู่สมรส จ านวน 3 รูป    (ชายใส่สูทผูกไท หรือชุดพระราชทาน หญิงแต่งกายสุภาพ) 

 

By Gad sah!  You're right - 2x2.5 it is". Well spotted.   I think I went to great trouble to get them in the odd square size 2x2". LOL.  No one said anything. 

 

Has anyone taken up the option to wear a praratchathan shirt in their photos?  This option seems not explicitly available for the interview at Lamlukka, if I recall the wording of my letter correctly.  But I am sure they would let you in wearing one, since they let in all the scruffs wearing polo shirts, jeans and sandals.  It would certainly set you apart from the crowd and would also dictate the subject matter of the panel's questions.   

[ThaiCitizen]

OK, thanks so 2x2.5 it is in colour.

On more thing, I just realized that my charity donations that I can find only got back to just over 3 years ago and every year since. And they have misspelled my surname by one letter. Could this be a problem? The receipts do have my address on them.

[ThaiCitizen]

On 6/3/2017 at 2:07 PM, GarryP said:

I did not use a lawyer and at no tme along the process did I wish I had. In fact in my case I feel it could have been detrimental. I believe the only real benefits are helping coordinate translations and other clerical stuff, which is easy enough to do yourself anyway. And perhaps coordinating with officials if your Thai language abilities are not so good.

 

BTW my Thai is pretty fluent so I have no problem dealing directly with officialdom.

Thanks. I think I'll do without. I still wonder how much they charge.

[MrPatrickThai]

5 hours ago, ThaiCitizen said:

Thanks. I think I'll do without. I still wonder how much they charge.

I've heard of some charging re 100k baht, and basically all they do is take a taxi to the SB and hand in the documents. Total rip off. 

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I've heard of some charging re 100k baht, and basically all they do is take a taxi to the SB and hand in the documents. Total rip off. 

 

I think there is a place for lawyers and other agents in certain cases, e.g. as Garry said, for those who are not confident enough in their Thai to deal with officials and don't have a Thai wife or secretary who is willing to do it for them.  Some officials, e.g. SB,  don't seem to mind dealing with lawyers and agents.  Others detest them.  When I had my interview with the NIA agent at McD there was a farang guy waiting with a very pushy female lawyer who butted into our interview to ask when he would be ready for them and wanted to know why they had to meet at McD's.  He was totally incensed and started fuming to us about how much he hated dealing with lawyers who he thought were totally unnecessary for this and just ripped applicants off.  He told the lawyer that the reason he had invited us all to McD's was that he thought it was much more convenient for applicants to get to than the NIA office which is somewhere in Dusit and that he had no budget to invite applicants anywhere finer.  A very reasonable response I thought. 

 

In the PR thread, if you go back a few years to before the military government came to power, you will find instances where applicants were told by lawyers during the big freeze when hardly anyone was approved for 6 years that a special quota had come available for applicants in the queue who were willing to pay a special unreceipted fee of B200,000 to Immigration officers via the lawyers, of course.  After a few weeks a number of other people, who had not used lawyers, received their approval letters without being asked for the special fee.   It was pretty obvious that lawyers had been given a heads up that the approvals were coming through which they used as a lever to squeeze cash out of their clients for something they would have got anyway by just sitting pat but how were they to know?  It was clear that the clients were cheated by the lawyers but unclear whether they shared the 'squeeze' with any officials in exchange for the advance warning, or whether they pocketed all for themselves.  Most likely the former I would guess.  Of course, it would have been unwise for the applicants that got scammed in this way to file a complaint with the police that they had paid bribes that turned out to be unnecessary.   That would have been like complaining that one had cooperated with the writer of a Nigerian letter in an attempt to defraud the government but got one's bank account cleaned out by scammers instead.   

 

I haven't heard of similar scams taking place with citizenship applications but the first announcement of a long list of citizenship approvals after the 2014 coup made it very clear that the names were being released publicly before the applicants were contacted directly to prevent unscrupulous officials or agents from using the advance information to charge applicants unfair and unnecessary fees.  It seemed pretty obvious that the Minister , Gen Anuphong, had some information about people operating the same scam with citizenship applicants and wanted to stamp it out, at least under his watch. 

 

So, if you do choose to use a lawyer, please bear this lesson in mind. 

[khongaeng]

On 6/2/2017 at 10:07 PM, Arkady said:

 No need to have the same work permit during the three year qualifying period before applying. I changed jobs the year before I applied and so have several others.  But it is critical that you do whatever it takes to make the transition between WPs seamless.  I ended up having a 3 day gap due to incompetence in my new company's HR dept, something that is unfortunately hard to avoid in large Thai companies.  As has been suggested a gap of a week  should probably be regarded as the outer limit before you might have to go back to the beginning and start the 3-year period again.  It doesn't matter about the renewal of the book.  In practice 2-year WPs are the maximum you can get but 1-year renewals or less are fine as long as they are continuous. As I have said here many times before, if you change jobs, demand to get the cancelled WP back, as is your right under the 2008 Working of Aliens Act, because you will need it.  Take a copy of the law in Thai with you to the Labour Ministry, if necessary.  It is very specific on that point.  

I will be applying sometime this week with the case that I had almost a 4 month break between 2 work permits while transitioning between jobs.  I was told by the SB officer that this won't be a problem and that he only cares that my annual taxes are sufficient as if I was continuously employed at the required rate.  My first WP shows a validity that extends beyond the start of my second WP (I had just renewed my WP when I left my first job), so without careful investigation of the dates in my passport everything would appear in order when looking at my WP books, but I will see how it goes during the interview.  I will let everyone know the result.  

 

I know it may sound ridiculous to some, but I am really excited to finally get the process started.  I have followed this thread for 8 years even before moving back to Thailand! and am finally now at a position where I am ready to apply.  If I think back to all of the hours spent collecting paperwork and making sure everything was in order over the past few years, I shake my head in disbelief.  I sincerely appreciate the contribution of the all of the "old-timers" on this thread.  You have significantly reduced my anguish in this process, and have helped convinced me to take the effort to stay the course... With the first hurdle to be cleared, now only 2-3 years (hopefully) until I cross the finish line.

[MrPatrickThai]

2 hours ago, khongaeng said:

I will be applying sometime this week with the case that I had almost a 4 month break between 2 work permits while transitioning between jobs.  I was told by the SB officer that this won't be a problem and that he only cares that my annual taxes are sufficient as if I was continuously employed at the required rate.  My first WP shows a validity that extends beyond the start of my second WP (I had just renewed my WP when I left my first job), so without careful investigation of the dates in my passport everything would appear in order when looking at my WP books, but I will see how it goes during the interview.  I will let everyone know the result.  

 

I know it may sound ridiculous to some, but I am really excited to finally get the process started.  I have followed this thread for 8 years even before moving back to Thailand! and am finally now at a position where I am ready to apply.  If I think back to all of the hours spent collecting paperwork and making sure everything was in order over the past few years, I shake my head in disbelief.  I sincerely appreciate the contribution of the all of the "old-timers" on this thread.  You have significantly reduced my anguish in this process, and have helped convinced me to take the effort to stay the course... With the first hurdle to be cleared, now only 2-3 years (hopefully) until I cross the finish line.

Good luck! 

 

I also plan to apply in the next few weeks, maybe our paths will cross.

 

I's also like to thank the ones who have gone before us for their invaluable advice and experience.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 6/5/2017 at 6:58 AM, ThaiCitizen said:

OK, thanks so 2x2.5 it is in colour.

On more thing, I just realized that my charity donations that I can find only got back to just over 3 years ago and every year since. And they have misspelled my surname by one letter. Could this be a problem? The receipts do have my address on them.

I can't see that being a problem if it's only one letter out. But I could be wrong. I do, however, believe it has to be 5 years ago, although 3 sounds enough.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, khongaeng said:

I will be applying sometime this week with the case that I had almost a 4 month break between 2 work permits while transitioning between jobs.  I was told by the SB officer that this won't be a problem and that he only cares that my annual taxes are sufficient as if I was continuously employed at the required rate.  My first WP shows a validity that extends beyond the start of my second WP (I had just renewed my WP when I left my first job), so without careful investigation of the dates in my passport everything would appear in order when looking at my WP books, but I will see how it goes during the interview.  I will let everyone know the result.  

 

I know it may sound ridiculous to some, but I am really excited to finally get the process started.  I have followed this thread for 8 years even before moving back to Thailand! and am finally now at a position where I am ready to apply.  If I think back to all of the hours spent collecting paperwork and making sure everything was in order over the past few years, I shake my head in disbelief.  I sincerely appreciate the contribution of the all of the "old-timers" on this thread.  You have significantly reduced my anguish in this process, and have helped convinced me to take the effort to stay the course... With the first hurdle to be cleared, now only 2-3 years (hopefully) until I cross the finish line.

 

Normally the employer is supposed to cancel the WP when the employee leaves within 7 days or something like that.  If your employer didn't do that, you might get away with it.  When you applied for the new WP for the new job, your employer must have signed something to cancel the old WP.  Otherwise the Labour Ministry would not have issued a new one, unless they believed you had never had one before.  In the former case, it should like the old WP was cancelled and you finished the old job just before starting the old job, which should be OK.  In the latter case, if the old WP was never cancelled at all, that might prompt the MoI to search for evidence of the finishing date of that employment.  If you have tourist or transit visas in your passport during your gardening leave period or were absent from the Kingdom entirely, it will be obvious to anyone scrutinising your passport.  The MoI doesn't rely 100% on SB's screening and the relationship between the two is somewhat frosty.  Where there is more than one WP during the 3 year qualifying period, they will almost certainly look for continuity.  In my case, the head of the nationality section went through the two WPs in my presence but didn't double check my passport which couldn't have revealed much because I had PR.   

 

Anyway, I wish you luck. I think it's certainly worth going ahead with any application that SB is willing to accept, particularly in this environment when the time between application and interview is relatively short and you would probably not lose much or any time in the worst case scenario.  Should you be rejected by the MoI, they will only blame SB and it will not count against you.  You will be free to re-apply whenever you like.               

[Arkady]

12 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I can't see that being a problem if it's only one letter out. But I could be wrong. I do, however, believe it has to be 5 years ago, although 3 sounds enough.

 

Probably no one will notice but, if they do, what with Thai bureaucracy being what it is......   Actually I think I had some misspellings in the charity receipts and some didn't include my middle names also.  No one commented.

 

Misspelling of your name in official documents is another matter altogether though.  I had to go to the Labour Ministry to correct the spelling of my name in Thai on my WP because they had decided to insert a "mai ek" where there shouldn't have been one.  SB told me about a Korean guy who had different Thai spellings of his name in his various Thai documents, including PR documents, which he had never noticed.  When they told him to go around different govt departments to correct the spellings, he was so traumatised that he never came back again, thus proving that he lacked the ability to accept Thainness with all its warts and was unworthy for citizenship. LOL.