hmm

delly raises a question that someone a few months ago asked: about thai husbands changing their ways once they go back to thailand..... back to familiar places, friends, hangouts and therefore go back to the way they lived before they met u... sort of like how i felt like i was 16 again when iw as visiting my parents way after i had married and had children....

anyhow....just read down and realized this is along post...

past marriage: married to someone from different culture (although same religioun and sort of background so the expectations were high as in he's jewish eastern european background so am i it should work out) but it seems a combination of our comunity life, expectations, closeness and importance of extended family etc took its toll. also, his very long hours of physical work meaning he would get home and literally fall asleep in the bathroom (agriculture, girls, will kill all drives: sex, cleaning, family outings, etc. its a wonder we managed to have three kids as most women here with farmer husbands used to joke about it). i threfore learned to get along fine without him being around. my own friends (not ours, mine), activities, decisions about the children. if i was ill, i took care of my self, no pampering. we just sort of grew apart. then he came back to work on the kibbutz. suddenly, he was around more. and then the power struggles started as he wanted to be more involved in daily living decisions. so little petty things became big issues. sort of like the toothpaste syndrom: argue about who left the cap off the colgate~~~

edit: forgot to add additional cultural problems as i am american, and have been here through three + wars, with husband (like all of us here) in active reserve duty. BUT being american, i wasnt used to husband being in war zones and coming home for a quick visit and being like a zombie from tiredness and strain and not wanting to deal with daily problems, and wasnt used to be left alone with children during critical war times (like gulf war, we were the 'front' and he was in reserve duty up north of the border). i wasnt prepared and felt like he was abandoning me. (he wasnt of course but he laughed at my fears -which were real -- instead of being supportive. this is common among many of us and what eventually causes some marriages here to fall apart also. mutual support is very important when u live in areas that keep u in constant stress. the feeling that your partner cant protect u or doesnt try to protect u or shows lack of concern about your own personal fears. )

i became tougher, he got surlier. but the kids, and our form of community living forces u to sort of be the FAMILY before everything. CHILDREN before everything else. i considered divorce and then his sister died tragically and again: community pressure, not good timing, bla bla bla and fear of how community would react towards me since i have no family here, no finances. then we had third child. sound familiar???? so just rolled along. when he asked me for divorce, neither i , nor my two older children were surprised. upset, but not surprised cause i guess we were living in a cold war zone.

in present marriage to thai husband: well, we've only now had one month of real living together so now starts the real hard work. the daily grind of work, dinner, my (older) children, community pressures/activities that he doesnt understand (kibbutz responsibilities/duties that i have), finances, cultural expectations-- how he sees marriage and long term goals and how i see them, but i am older, wiser -i would hope anyway-, less combative, and yes, naked with beer in one hand (not always quite literally) for when he comes home, as it doesnt cost me a penny in emotion or pride and it makes him feel good... and men seem to need what a good doctor feminist girlfriend of mine calls :ego strokes. she says an ego stroke a day keeps the marriage counsellor away....

i withhold the nagging and find that if i say something once or twice, it will get done. i ask myself if something is worth fighting over or not. i ignore the IN THAILAND IT IS BETTER, FASTER, EASIER, SMARTER --------comments as he is in culture shock triple time: different finances (he still thinks we are living on 100 baht a day); loud confrontational culture; kibbutz (communist as far as he sees it); i also try what someone else (a MAN) i think said: discuss daily problems over morning coffe (or nam prik as the case may be), not in evening when we are tired, the tv is on, etc.

i once asked husband how do thai families like his deal with private time to discuss things as the family is always together, in and out of the house (poor poor issan semi open houses), early to rise, work, early to bed. he says, when in bed, before falling asleep, that is the time most couples can speak quietly w/o family around (after babies are asleep).

since i am his first wife and first woman in relationship, he has no expeience of living together with someone. not quite sure how it would be if we were living back with his family+ although not having small children means less daily pressure/argueing with inlaws, child care issues. on the other hand, due to my age, i always wonder if it bothers him that i probably will not bear his child, even though he has decreed that it doesnt and wont bother him.

only time will tell.

bina

Edited June 6, 200719 yr by bina

I will tell you what a bad marriage really is. When you love your partner so much and willing to do anything just to keep him happy, but all you get is complaining. No matter how well you take care his family, you still get complain and criticizen.Even worst you have to do all the housework in his parent's house and take care two of his old grandma.

When you try to communicate with him, him will just sit and play his playstation without even care what you say. I just felt tired of giving and giving without any tiny receiving.

THAT is a BAD one Delly.....I am so sorry for you.

Finally there are someone listening !! Thank you all for your understanding . As you know I am in a foreign country away from my family, there are time you just can't get any emotional support.

Sometime I wonder whether is because we move back to Thailand (my husband home country) that cause the problem. Our marriage life in USA is perfect, but it all change now. Since living with his parents, sister and grandma, attention and love from him is completely down to 0. If nothing is getting better, I guess this bad marriage is leading to Divorce.

For me, Bad marriage happen when you marry his whole family instead of just him.

Absolutely Delly! And that is just what you do here in Thailand.

I am expected to support my Wife's whole Family!.

Which I will not do incidentally.

What it's the Custom you say Pal. Well Fk their Customs....I don't support my own family in the UK so I an sure that I am NOT going to give shedloads of my hard earned dosh to people I hardly know!

Having said that. My attitude can not be tolerated in LOS. So it's Bye Bye time.......

I've never been married, and I'm a man, so feel free to disregard everything I'm saying here. I have had 3 loves in my life and long term relationships and I'm still relatively young (34) so in some ways I'm more experienced than alot of others and have learned alot about what makes a relationship work (for me at least). 7 year relationship followed by a 5 year followed by my current 3 year relationship and still going strong with her. I didn't marry the first 2 even though I loved them dearly because they simply weren't good enough... sounds harsh but love is NOT enough, one was abusive with the constant lying and manipulating, the other didnt respect me and hurt me constantly, not big hurts, just alot of little ones over and over... over the years it all adds up to bitterness. I landed up breaking up with both of them and crying about it for like a year each (not nonstop! just you know... now and then)..... but it was the right decision, just very painful. I think you have to look out for yourself (love youself first) before you can be in a good relationship and know how to treat someone else.

Respect is most important to me..... I don't respect many people (male or female) so respecting my woman is extremely important and I know now that I am not happy unless I have this. I think respect must be important to everyone, alot of times I see couples and they blatantly don't respect eachother... I wonder why they are hurting themselves by staying together.

I think that a bad marriage is one where there is any lack of respect. Lack of respect can be demonstrated in too many ways to list, but all of them are obvious.

SBK, I respect your experience but I think you are a little harsh with Delly for the wrong reasons, culture and understanding have nothing to do with the fact that her husband is obviously neglecting her and not even listening to her. That is inexcusable and she should get the frik out. I think you give Thai men too much credit, your husband is probably awesome, Dellys doesn't sound the same. We shoudln't make excuses for bad behaviour because of cultural differences.

Delly, you can't sit around feeling sorry for yourself, I've been guilty of staying with someone for 7 years thinking I could change them too (it will never happen)..... just get out, love yourself first and stop being miserable, do what's best for you. No human being is meant to live unhappily, not for any reason.

I found it a little amusing and sad that when a man mentions walking in on his wife with his good friend, (and the obvious trauma and feeling of betrayal and loss of 2 people that were close to him that goes along with that) that nobody says so much as "sucks to be you" yet several replies of "Delly poor you that is so sad" immediately follow when in reality Delly is responsible for her own sadness and she can take control of her happiness by taking action.

We can't blame bad people for being bad to us if it's in our power to stop them.

Damian Mavis

i would agree with that... though there are exceptions. for me, moving in with someone means relationship death. someone (gertrude stein maybe?) said that you should never share in tedious activities with your partner (ie. brushing your teeth, paying bills, housework), in order to keep a little mystery in the relationship. people who move in together and get married tend to lose their individual identities. they get bored quickly with the routine, the sex, the lack of novelty. this is when people start cheating or drinking to cope or various other destructive behaviors. in my life, i have learned that my most successful relationships are those in which both sides are allowed to be ourselves, have our own space, but choose to come together regularly. my current boyfriend has his own place, his own friends, his own job. he sleeps over at my house quite often, but has not moved in. i do my thing, he does his. we spend most of the day apart, then we have stories to share with each other when we hook up at night. neither of us feel like we are suffocating each other or that we have slipped into a boring routine. we also have great communication (he is the most honest and straightforward thai i have ever met), which helps. we have our problems but i am quite happy with a relationship structured in this way.

agree with not getting married, disagree with not living together

a quote from another thread right now (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=124489) that i found relevant:

Too much intimacy, having to know everything your partner did and share every activity he or she enjoys, kills lust, she believes. “The paradox is that the pursuit of passion involves excitement, mystery, unpredictability. But the pursuit of intimacy involves wanting to be known completely and expecting predictability. And yet we want both.”

The trick, she says, is allowing “a modicum of freedom in a relationship. Don't ask the other person to give up freedom so you can feel more secure.”

...this is what i was getting at too.