All eyes on China’s Sinovac – Thailand’s vaccine choice for emergency

[mrfill]

On 5/22/2021 at 6:47 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:

More importantly:

How does the Sinovac fare against the U.K. and Indian variants ??

and :

Is it accepted for travelling to different countries ?

Does this help?

Prof Lawrence Young, Virologist and Professor of Molecular Oncology, University of Warwick, said:

“The reporting of the Sinovac trial of Coronavac (an inactivated whole virus vaccine) is very confusing. The revised 50.4% efficacy rate from the Brazilian clinical trial includes those who had ‘very mild’ cases of COVID-19 whereas original reports indicated an overall efficacy of 78% for mild to severe cases. The same vaccine has been trialled in Turkey (reported efficacy 91.25%) and Indonesia (reported efficacy 65.3%). The data from China only report a 94.9% seroconversion rate in a Phase I/II clinical trial with no report on efficacy. It is difficult to interpret all this information without seeing the full datasets. This highlights the problem of issuing data by press release rather than publication in a peer-reviewed journal. It also emphasises the different approaches to requirements for regulatory approval. It is interesting that both the Chinese and Russian vaccines are being distributed to countries such as Brazil and India in response to the perception that the ‘Western’ vaccines are being pre-purchased and hoarded by the ‘rich’ countries.” 

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-reported-results-of-the-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-from-a-trial-by-the-butantan-institute-in-brazil/

 

I'm pretty sure that if a virologist and professor of molecular oncology says it is very confusing reporting, that carries a tad more weight than the rantings of a few untrained pseudo-expert commentators.

[placnx]

45 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

We see that even western diplomats suffer from vaccine deficiency:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/state-department-coronavirus-vaccine-diplomats/2021/02/17/ec507e84-70d5-11eb-a4eb-44012a612cf9_story.html

Your link is so interesting. It sounds like karma. I'll post it on the "Forgotten Americans" thread if it's still alive.

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Does this help?

Prof Lawrence Young, Virologist and Professor of Molecular Oncology, University of Warwick, said:

“The reporting of the Sinovac trial of Coronavac (an inactivated whole virus vaccine) is very confusing. The revised 50.4% efficacy rate from the Brazilian clinical trial includes those who had ‘very mild’ cases of COVID-19 whereas original reports indicated an overall efficacy of 78% for mild to severe cases. The same vaccine has been trialled in Turkey (reported efficacy 91.25%) and Indonesia (reported efficacy 65.3%). The data from China only report a 94.9% seroconversion rate in a Phase I/II clinical trial with no report on efficacy. It is difficult to interpret all this information without seeing the full datasets. This highlights the problem of issuing data by press release rather than publication in a peer-reviewed journal. It also emphasises the different approaches to requirements for regulatory approval. It is interesting that both the Chinese and Russian vaccines are being distributed to countries such as Brazil and India in response to the perception that the ‘Western’ vaccines are being pre-purchased and hoarded by the ‘rich’ countries.” 

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-reported-results-of-the-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-from-a-trial-by-the-butantan-institute-in-brazil/

 

I'm pretty sure that if a virologist and professor of molecular oncology says it is very confusing reporting, that carries a tad more weight than the rantings of a few untrained pseudo-expert commentators.

There were 2 other virologists in that article you didn't cite. Also worthy of note is that the article dates from Jan 21, 2021. Lots has happened since.  Other trials elsewhere.

Notably almost the entire adult population has been vaccinated with Coronava inf a town in Sao Paolo state, where the pandemic is raging. Life in said town has returned pretty much to normal.

Edited May 23, 2021 by placeholder

[friendofthai]

9 hours ago, Kiujunn said:

They had reasons to refuse Sputnik.

Political pressure of the country spending nearly a half of the world's military budget is a significant reason for sure:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-sputnik-russia/

I suggest they don't like Sputnik V because its ~92% efficacy
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55900622
is not compatible with all those numerous beautiful stories explaining that mRNA is necessary to stop the spread of COVID.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Political pressure of the country spending nearly a half of the world's military budget is a significant reason for sure:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-sputnik-russia/

I suggest they don't like Sputnik V because its ~92% efficacy
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55900622
is not compatible with all those numerous beautiful stories explaining that mRNA is necessary to stop the spread of COVID.

Well, that 92% figure is definitely open to question since the company refuses to share data. Here's an article about that in, of all places, the Lancet

Data discrepancies and substandard reporting of interim data of Sputnik V phase 3 trial

Restricted access to data hampers trust in research. Access to data underpinning study findings is imperative to check and confirm the findings claimed. It is even more serious if there are apparent errors and numerical inconsistencies in the statistics and results presented. Regrettably, this seems to be what is happening in the case of the Sputnik V phase 3 trial.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00899-0/fulltext

 

[friendofthai]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, that 92% figure is definitely open to question since the company refuses to share data. Here's an article about that in, of all places, the Lancet

Let's be consistent. It looks very strange when a result one study (92% for phase 1/2) is considered wrong because of a completely different study (phase 3 trial that is not yet ready).
It is like telling a Thai lady that the pleasure of sex with her is definitely open to question since  you don't like being massaged with her. Such a foreigner should understand that sex and massage are not the same process and a foreigner should see the difference.
Working on the Phase 3 is not finished yet. So the scientists continue to fix existing problems as a part of normal workflow of any study on the way to the final publication.

Edited May 23, 2021 by friendofthai

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, friendofthai said:

Let's be consistent. It looks very strange when a result one study (92% for phase 1/2) is considered wrong because of a completely different study (phase 3 trial that is not yet ready).
It is like telling a Thai lady that the pleasure of sex with her is definitely open to question since  you don't like being massaged with her. Such a foreigner should understand that sex and massage are not the same process and a foreigner should see the difference.
Working on the Phase 3 is not finished yet. So the scientists continue to fix existing problems as a part of normal workflow of any study on the way to the final publication.

What really looks strange is the unwillingness of the company that makes the vaccine to share the data with other researchers..

[MrJ2U]

There scrutinizing Pfeizer, Moderna, J&J but get Sinovac no questions asked despite it not even being on the WHO emergency list. 

 

CP owns 15% could be part of the reason.  Anutin is always try to cuddle up with the Chinese to get contracts for his family business is another.  Theres not much research like other vaccines.  This is a big mistake.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

"Unwillingness" without proof is actually "not yet readiness".

The most recent data from the Hungarian`s government "alleging that the Sputnik V vaccine is 32 times safer than Pfizer’s jab" ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/sputnik-campaign-fails-to-launch-in-hungary-11619790776 ) also suggests that the western governments will have hard times preparing a clear explanation for their people wanting to know why the mRNA technology was chosen to produce the vaccines.

They're not ready to share the data but already selling the vaccine? Phase 3 trials are still underway and they're selling vaccines"  Clearly the Russian govt cares deeply about the welfare of those receiving the vaccine.

 

And the manufacturer of the vaccine on the one hand is unwilling to release data but on the other the Hungarian govt claims it's 32 times safer than mRNA vaccines? How did they get their info? Via a Ouija board?  That's' not strange at all.  

 

And then there's this:

Heated Debate in Parliament Over Gov’t’s Vaccine Efficacy Table

The vaccine efficacy table shared by the Hungarian government has stirred up quite a controversy, especially after news spread of a very similar table being shared by Russia two days prior.

The Hungarian government shared a controversial table on Sunday which displayed data in a manner that would make the Chinese and Russian vaccines appear more efficient and safer than those of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

Notable individuals in the healthcare field, such as Katalin Karikó and Gábor Kemenesi, have pointed out that the table is missing key information without which it is misleading and uninterpretable.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-vaccine-table-vaccines-effectiveness-deaths-dataset/

Quite a coincidence. Russia releases a table with unbacked claim and 2 days later, so does Hungary. Hmmm...

 

By the way, here's the title and some text from that WSJ article you linked to:

 

Sputnik Campaign Fails to Launch in Hungary

Hungarians clamor for western Covid-19 vaccines despite disinformation campaign to boost Sputnik V

Pfizer PFE -0.42% and its Covid-19 vaccine partner BioNTech got a shot in the arm from Hungary on Thursday, though some locals were less fortunate.

Local outlet HVG reported that the country’s vaccine registration website crashed when it was thought that a shipment of the U.S.-German vaccine had arrived. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sputnik-campaign-fails-to-launch-in-hungary-11619790776

 

[friendofthai]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The vaccine efficacy table shared by the Hungarian government has stirred up quite a controversy, especially after news spread of a very similar table being shared by Russia two days prior.

This simply means that any vaccine producer works in close cooperation with his customers. Sharing data looks like a natural thing here. But the Hungarian government obviously experience much higher political pressure from the opponents, so it published the results later.

 

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The Hungarian government shared a controversial table on Sunday which displayed data in a manner that would make the Chinese and Russian vaccines appear more efficient and safer than those of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

I can see 2 types of statements in the article:
1) Scientific statements that come with explanations and links to studies
2) Political statements
There is no any proof that the table is "controversial". So it is a political statement, not a scientific one.

Edited May 23, 2021 by friendofthai

[Selatan]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Most likely if there is a list, Coronavac will be near the bottom since it seems less effective at stopping transmission of the virus.

I think the mRNA vaccines should be at the bottom of that list. Here's a real world result from Singapore:

300 unvaccinated COVID-19 cases in current outbreak vs 78 vaccinated

78 out of 378 is 21%.

What's the percentage of vaccinated people in Singapore, up to two weeks ago? Around 20%.

What do the numbers mean? It means the two mRNA vaccines are totally useless in preventing infections, at least against the Indian variant in Singapore.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Selatan

[friendofthai]

47 minutes ago, Selatan said:

I think the mRNA vaccines should be at the bottom of that list. Here's a real world result from Singapore:

300 unvaccinated COVID-19 cases in current outbreak vs 78 vaccinated

They have 200 000 doses of Sinovac already.  But the authorities does not approve it:

"Singapore has been using the Pfizer-BioNTech (PFE.N), (22UAy.DE) and Moderna (MRNA.O) vaccines, and has taken delivery of 200,000 doses of the vaccine developed by China's Sinovac Biotech, which has yet to be granted approval by Singapore authorities."

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-warns-covid-19-vaccine-supplies-it-expands-programme-2021-05-11/

Looks like we are lucky to be in Thailand that has approved the Chinese vaccine already without delays.

[Scouse123]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, if they're going to go for those vaccines that performed the best in trials, and they clearly have the means to do so,  then most likely they would plump for either  Pfizer or Moderna.

 

Horrendous waiting list

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, friendofthai said:

This simply means that any vaccine producer works in close cooperation with his customers. Sharing data looks like a natural thing here. But the Hungarian government obviously experience much higher political pressure from the opponents, so it published the results later.

 

I can see 2 types of statements in the article:
1) Scientific statements that come with explanations and links to studies
2) Political statements
There is no any proof that the table is "controversial". So it is a political statement, not a scientific one.

Yes, a political statement about a matter of public health. And yet you cited the Hungarian govt. endorsement of this vaccine as somehow being proof of Sputnik's safety. That is obviously nonsense.

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, friendofthai said:

They have 200 000 doses of Sinovac already.  But the authorities does not approve it:

"Singapore has been using the Pfizer-BioNTech (PFE.N), (22UAy.DE) and Moderna (MRNA.O) vaccines, and has taken delivery of 200,000 doses of the vaccine developed by China's Sinovac Biotech, which has yet to be granted approval by Singapore authorities."

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-warns-covid-19-vaccine-supplies-it-expands-programme-2021-05-11/

Looks like we are lucky to be in Thailand that has approved the Chinese vaccine already without delays.

Yes, the 1% or is it 2% of the population that has been vaccinated should be very grateful that the Sinovac vaccine has been approved. Should they also be grateful that until recently it was the only vaccine approved? And that Thailand has to get in the back of the line to obtain other vaccines?

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, friendofthai said:

This simply means that any vaccine producer works in close cooperation with his customers. Sharing data looks like a natural thing here. But the Hungarian government obviously experience much higher political pressure from the opponents, so it published the results later.

 

So, to your mind, this situation, a matter of public health, is no different from a manufacturer selling widgets to a company? What data did the Russians share with the Hungarian govt? What's the value of the data they did share without sharing all the data behind that table? 

[Mavideol]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-covid-19-vaccines-dont-123035757.html

China's COVID-19 vaccines don't appear to be effective at preventing outbreaks in the real world