Thai Children’s IQ Considered Normal

[Jai Dee]

Thai children’s IQ considered normal

The Ministry of Public Health reports that the latest survey on Thai children’s IQ shows that the average IQ of the children is considered normal. Bangkok children have the highest IQ while those in the South have the lowest.

Deputy Minister of Public Health Md.Wanlop Thaineua (วัลลภ ไทยเหนือ) and Director-General of the Department of Mental Health M.L.Somchai Chakkaphan (สมชาย จักรพันธ์) jointly held a press conference on the survey on IQ of Thai children aged 3 – 11 years. The survey was conducted amongst 7,791 children from 15 provinces by more than 130 skilled psychiatrists.

The survey shows that the average IQ of the samples is 103.9 which is in the normal IQ range of 90 – 109. Bangkok children have the IQ of 108.47, Northeast 104.05, North 103.71, Central 101.84, and South 98.66 respectively.

The survey also demonstrates that secondary students of demonstration schools have higher IQ than elementary students while those of other schools have lower IQ than elementary students. Director of the ABAC Poll Research Center, Noppadol Kannikar (นพดล กรรณิการ์) says it cannot be concluded that the more children learn, the less their IQ is, as there are many factors contributing to human IQ.

As for measures to resolve the problem of low-IQ children, the Department of Mental Health has a plan to distribute handbooks on IQ development to elementary schools nationwide.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 May 2007

[jackmuu]

I wonder how IQ standards are compared to other countries.

[PeaceBlondie]

That's fine, if it's accurate. How is it, then, that prior reports of recent years have shown Thai children's IQ to be averaging around 89?

Also, I had no idea there were that many psychiatrists (MD, medical doctors) in Thailand who could be enrolled to do such thing. More likely, they were psychometrists and psychologists but again, that's an incredibly large number of mental health professionals for a kingdom of this size.

[ThaiGoon]

I wonder how IQ standards are compared to other countries.

From a Thai newspaper I read, those numbers are almost identical to Taiwanese kids'.

[Steely Dan]

I know there must be a joke here waiting to get out.

In the meantime I found a graph of religiousity vs IQ.... No peeking have a guess first.

http://paulsen.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm

[Scott]

So basically in one year the nation was able to raise the IQ from in the 80's to 103. Quite amazing. This truly is Amazing Thailand! No country in the world has been able to do that--will they get in the Guiness Book of Records?

[Ijustwannateach]

Nearly all government numbers here are suspicious. But it's equally suspicious what IQ actually means and how well whatever kinds of tests they're using apply to the environments that these children are actually in.

[jackmuu]

I know it is just one example, but on the MBA prog. at a UK uni. the Thai students were consistently in the bottom 20%. Indians were the best achievers followed in order by Europeans, Arabs, Chinese, Taiwanese and Thai. When discussed in an informal setting, the Thai's would freely admit it was a poor standard of education in Thailand and the fact that degrees were awarded too easily. They had a rude awakening in the UK, especialy when the fathers' of two students tried offering an all expenses paid trip to the head of the business school...... red faces all round.

[pansted00]

Had they tested the IQ of Thai politicians, I have a gut feeling the results would have been more embarassing for the country...

[Jimjim]

That's fine, if it's accurate. How is it, then, that prior reports of recent years have shown Thai children's IQ to be averaging around 89?

Also, I had no idea there were that many psychiatrists (MD, medical doctors) in Thailand who could be enrolled to do such thing. More likely, they were psychometrists and psychologists but again, that's an incredibly large number of mental health professionals for a kingdom of this size.

Care to cite another report?

[vegas]

I guess it must have been a southerner that used a calculator to add my purchase of items worth 6 and 17 the other day in 7-11 then.

[PeaceBlondie]

That's fine, if it's accurate. How is it, then, that prior reports of recent years have shown Thai children's IQ to be averaging around 89?

Also, I had no idea there were that many psychiatrists (MD, medical doctors) in Thailand who could be enrolled to do such thing. More likely, they were psychometrists and psychologists but again, that's an incredibly large number of mental health professionals for a kingdom of this size.

Care to cite another report?

Jimjim, I'm not goooood at goooogle searches, but there should be something about IQ in the News Clipping forums from past years here. Two reports in different years. Sorry to be so lazy.

[Domyamkung]

All in all, in 2005, the economy is forecasted to expand by 4.7 per cent, though higher than many expected it is noticeably lower than the growth rate of 6.2 per cent in 2004. The current account deficit is expected to be near 3.2 billion USD, equivalent to 1.8 percent of GDP, while annual unemployment rate is expected to average at 1.9 percent .

I think the source of this farytale came from this same source.

[wintermute]

Nearly all government numbers here are suspicious. But it's equally suspicious what IQ actually means and how well whatever kinds of tests they're using apply to the environments that these children are actually in.

Seeing as how this report is coming from one of the Thai ministries i'd take it with a grain of salt. If it's like any other test they take in Thailand it's pretty likely that the results were doctored to meet expectations.

[wintermute]

I know it is just one example, but on the MBA prog. at a UK uni. the Thai students were consistently in the bottom 20%. Indians were the best achievers followed in order by Europeans, Arabs, Chinese, Taiwanese and Thai. When discussed in an informal setting, the Thai's would freely admit it was a poor standard of education in Thailand and the fact that degrees were awarded too easily. They had a rude awakening in the UK, especialy when the fathers' of two students tried offering an all expenses paid trip to the head of the business school...... red faces all round.

In the U.S., asians (orientals to the brits) and indians consistently score in the top 5% beating out your average white student. If you broke it down to particular demographics i'd say that Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, and Indian students are the most successful. The SE Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, etc..) students do a little worse than the ones I mentioned before but overall they perform better than the white students. In Universities these days you have complaints about the asian students making it harder and more competitive for "normal" top gpa students to enter into the elite unis.

Not sure why you separated Taiwanese with Chinese though because they are ethnically and culturally one and the same.

Edited May 22, 2007 by wintermute

[Plus]

I thought IQ by definition should average at 100. Then you compare individuals with the average.

Maybe they compared Thailand to the worldwide average, but is there worldwide valid IQ test? What about language differences? There are lots of question like "Choose the closest meaning" that do not translate very well.

[wintermute]

I thought IQ by definition should average at 100. Then you compare individuals with the average.

Maybe they compared Thailand to the worldwide average, but is there worldwide valid IQ test? What about language differences? There are lots of question like "Choose the closest meaning" that do not translate very well.

It's not difficult to make an IQ test that's not culture or language specific. Most of them are based on puzzle logic, math, or memory which is very universal in concept.

[Dakhar]

Not sure why you separated Taiwanese with Chinese though because they are ethnically and culturally one and the same.

Not really. Try floating that across a Taiwanese and they would laugh. I lived in Taiwan, and visited China, and in my opinion, they do differ. For example, the Taiwanese have their own very specific accent & foods. They also differ in school systems. While China does have the same respect for education that the Taiwanese have, China in no way educate their citizens to the extent that the Taiwanese do per capita.

If you go to US college campusses it is very common to find a Taiwanese student body club, and a Chinese student body club. The point is, they also feel that they are not "one in the same." I can spot an "Main Lander" vs a Taiwanese in a matter of seconds by observing their mannerisims, accent & even clothes.

Further. the island of Taiwan was occupied by "Taiwanese" before the Chinese fled to Taiwan by the masses. Those folks spoke their own dialect, and there were people called "Mountain People" there before them.

Your observation albeit some what accurate is like saying Americans are ethinically and culturally the same as the British. I don't think the British or the Americans would agree with that.

[Dakhar]

OK, just for grins, lets say this study is accurate.

Poof: accurate

Now the question becomes, why are the BKK kids "smarter?" And if they are, what is this govt. going to do about it?

[lannarebirth]

So basically in one year the nation was able to raise the IQ from in the 80's to 103. Quite amazing. This truly is Amazing Thailand! No country in the world has been able to do that--will they get in the Guiness Book of Records?

Yes, i recall the IQ trend falling into the 80's. The Queen went on record, stating that she feared that if strong educational policies weren't adopted immediately, she feared the slide would be irreversible. Looks like she was worried needlessly. Or maybe they jiggered the numbers a bit.

Speaking for myself, giving the right educational training and tools, I believe the Thais could compete academically with any country. They seem a long long way from that now however.

[Dakhar]

So basically in one year the nation was able to raise the IQ from in the 80's to 103. Quite amazing. This truly is Amazing Thailand! No country in the world has been able to do that--will they get in the Guiness Book of Records?

Yes, i recall the IQ trend falling into the 80's. The Queen went on record, stating that she feared that if strong educational policies weren't adopted immediately, she feared the slide would be irreversible. Looks like she was worried needlessly. Or maybe they jiggered the numbers a bit.

Speaking for myself, giving the right educational training and tools, I believe the Thais could compete academically with any country. They seem a long long way from that now however.

Problem is, education is a garbage in garbage out process. If the student is only a product of the instructor.... it is a trickle down effect.....

See the problem?

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, lannarebirth. Many of us questioned whether the average IQ of school children could be as low as 85 to 89, in the first place. We doubted the accuracy of the science, and even wondered then if this was some political attempt to raise money for education that wouldn't do the job, anyway. This latest set of numbers is suspect, as well.

And as IJWT points out, there's a whole 'nother debate as to what the scores mean even when they're perfectly done. Which brings me back to my initial post in this thread: even if there were that many licensed professionals who could administer an IQ test perfectly (it takes hours and is done individually, one on one), they wouldn't have bothered to test that many kids.

There are, however, paper tests which can be administered to entire groups, and in that case in Thailand, you can bet that Pacharasawa's paper on the front row is being copied by the entire second row, etc., and the invigilator isn't being vigilant.

[ronw]

There are many tests for IQ....the international standards [for comparison] are Non Verbal Reasoning tests...however each test has a wide margin of error.....so for more accurate testing...a whole range of tests are necessary.....which is expensive....both in money and time.

Therefore, all results from a single test must be viewed with the knowlege that results are NOT absolutely accurate.

The cowboy philosopher, Will Rogers, showed exactly how they should be regarded.....

He said" When we wanted to weigh a pig, we would tie the pig to a plank, and put it on a fence,then we would look around for a rock which EXACTLY balanced the hog.....then we would guess the weight of the rock................................."

Think on..............

[wintermute]

Not sure why you separated Taiwanese with Chinese though because they are ethnically and culturally one and the same.

Not really. Try floating that across a Taiwanese and they would laugh. I lived in Taiwan, and visited China, and in my opinion, they do differ. For example, the Taiwanese have their own very specific accent & foods.

It's more of a political difference than it is a cultural/ethnic difference. Mainland Chinese have accents and regional dialects that are even more diverse than the gulf between Taiwanese and Mainland accents. Ever hear Shanghainese, Hokkien, or Cantonese? They are a world of difference from normal "putong hua" mandarin chinese. If you didn't know Taiwan's history..they are all (except for a tiny <10% aboriginal population) from the Fujian province in China. The last wave of immigrations from the 40's and 50's were definitely from the mainland.

They also differ in school systems. While China does have the same respect for education that the Taiwanese have, China in no way educate their citizens to the extent that the Taiwanese do per capita.

Political and economic differences.

[Dakhar]

Ever hear Shanghainese, Hokkien, or Cantonese? They are a world of difference from normal "putong hua" mandarin chinese. If you didn't know Taiwan's history..they are all (except for a tiny <10% aboriginal population) from the Fujian province in China. The last wave of immigrations from the 40's and 50's were definitely from the mainland.

Ofcourse I have heard them. I have practically been all over China and Taiwan. My first wife was Taiwanese, specifically from Hualien and spoke Hakka as her first language. As I said before, ask a Taiwanese if he/she thinks they are "one in the same" as the main land Chinese and get their response.

I would think they should be of an authority on this question....

If you look up some of the defineing aspects of a culture, language and foods are a part of it. Like I said, Taiwan has their own accent, they even use words you will not hear in China, much like the British and the Americans have their own vocabulary & accent, although they both speak English.

You don't find Taiwanese cousine in China, yes some similarities, but not the same. Time and isolation has taken its toll, the two have similarities, but they are not one in the same. (my opinion from a round eye)

Now like I said, ask a Taiwanese see what they have to say.

Personally, I think the Taiwanese would be better off re-joining China....

But hey, this is way off topic.

[thaigene2]

Maybe it's worth mentioning here that IQ has little to do with education or ability to study and get good grades. That's why countries with artificial access to higher education (e.g. class system, private schools, where only rich get to attend then are siphoned off to the best unis because they went to elite private schools) rank poorly per capita - even Western countries like the UK where this artificial system is still in place.

The more egalitarian countries where private education is either very rare or doesn't exist rank higher per capita in terms of academia...

But in any event, you can't 'learn' to get a higher IQ. We are born with varying levels of intelligence. Some call it the great equalizer (but it isn't as outline above because those who are super intelligent still won't access higher elite unis unless they fall within the 'rich' zone.

However, one can only wonder that if a Thai kid was taught to 'think' instead of just 'monkey-see-monkey-do', then the country's IQ rankings might improve...just by learning HOW to think.

Edited May 22, 2007 by thaigene2

[Briggsy]

I have worked in education in Thailand for over a decade. I have worked across a wide variety of ages and social classes.

Please believe me. There is no test taken by Thais and administered by Thais in which copying and other forms of score-boosting is not widespread. I simply cannot accept these results unless they are monitored by an international organisation employing standard invigilation techniques.

For those who find it hard to believe, just ask your friends who work in education.

[jackmuu]

Although it is not the only answer. Maybe some educational programmes on TV instead of the "dumbing down" tosh that is on most of the time. And no, a bald farang who dresses up in funny outfits for a minute and English on tour will not cut it.

[Thaddeus]

But in any event, you can't 'learn' to get a higher IQ. We are born with varying levels of intelligence.

Quite right.

This is not self trumpet blowing, but the last time I did an IQ test I came out with a score of 148..... all that means is that I am pretty good at seeing patterns and solving problems...... I ended my mainstream school life in the great British Educational system with 6 'O''s and 2 'A's ..... a fairly unimpressive score (in case you are interested, the two 'A's were Geology and Geometrical and Engineering Drawing...... I could sketch a drill rig or explain tectonic plate movements at will, they just came naturally, I was just good at those two)

Then I discovered computers.

At the time, great unthinking lumps of metal and circuitry....... and I fell in love with them .... still am. For me it was like dancing, because of my problem solving ability, I already knew the tune, I already knew the steps, I just had to get my partner in sync with me so that we both did the dip at the same time.

A high IQ is meaningless for choice of occupation and far too much importance is placed on it, finding out what you are good at is a more worthy task. Having a high IQ does not make you a potential surgeon or teacher etc .... a natural ability and a passion for a particular field does.

Perhaps finding out what the kids are good at would be a better idea.

[Alf Witt]

I thought IQ by definition should average at 100. Then you compare individuals with the average.

Well isn't that pretty depressing when one encounters the "average" Thai?

The really depressing thought is that, by definition, 49.99999999% of the population is below "average" intelligence.

Just an aside: Wasn't 49.99999999% George Dubbya's vote? I've always wondered how he came to be elected - now I think I've found the answer.