Water pump "pulsing".

[Yellowtail]

If the pump is overheating (per the OP) it's probably making pressure but not shutting off, and the problem is not likely to be an open by-pass or a leaky toilet. 

[bankruatsteve]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If the pump is overheating (per the OP) it's probably making pressure but not shutting off, and the problem is not likely to be an open by-pass or a leaky toilet. 

Well, it's not the OP but an addition to the topic.  What would cause a pump to keep pumping when there is sufficient input (full tank).?

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, it's not the OP but an addition to the topic.  What would cause a pump to keep pumping when there is sufficient input (full tank).?

 

Pump running continuously would generally indicate an open by-pass or a leak, but that should not cause the pump to overheat. The pump overheating would indicate it running dry, or the pressure switch not turning it off. 

 

It is a little confusing though, because one would think it would likely not run like that for days, and it shoul

d shut off when it overheats. 

 

Are we getting GOOD pressure in the house? If a bypass is open we should not have good pressure in the house, and if it by-passes back into the tank, is the tank overflowing?

 

If it's actually pumping, the water has to go somewhere. Is there an internal bypass in the pump?

[2009]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Assume that is the same when the inline pump is on. Do you have a valve you can close at the inline pump output? Does that stop the pump? 

 

I will try that.

 

Yes there is a valve between the pump and the house, so if the pump stops running when I turn the valve off that will tell us there is a leak in the house, right (or something is open in the house)?

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, 2009 said:

 

I will try that.

 

Yes there is a valve between the pump and the house, so if the pump stops running when I turn the valve off that will tell us there is a leak in the house, right (or something is open in the house)?

 

It should, yes.

[2009]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

It should, yes.

 

I will try tomorrow.

 

I just can't think where the water could be going. I have been checking for a week.

 

Unless something has burst under the house, then I have no idea how to fix it.

 

Cheers.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

 

I will try tomorrow.

 

I just can't think where the water could be going. I have been checking for a week.

 

Unless something has burst under the house, then I have no idea how to fix it.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Make sue you don't have a toilet running...

 

Do you have a roof-tank also?

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Yellowtail

[bankruatsteve]

10 hours ago, 2009 said:

Yes there is a valve between the pump and the house, so if the pump stops running when I turn the valve off that will tell us there is a leak in the house, right (or something is open in the house)?

Could be, but it seems you would notice a leak big enough to keep the pump running non-stop.  Is it pumping into the well?  I take it you do not have mains input - no meter, right?

[2009]

3 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Could be, but it seems you would notice a leak big enough to keep the pump running non-stop.  Is it pumping into the well?  I take it you do not have mains input - no meter, right?

 

The setup is: well pump to storage tank. Then, inline pump to house. 

 

No meter.

 

I haven't noticed any reduced pressure in the house either from any of the taps/faucets which I would expect with a leak. Unless a garden tap/faucet is leaking

Edited June 16, 2021 by 2009

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, 2009 said:

 

The setup is: well pump to storage tank. Then, inline pump to house. 

 

No meter.

 

I haven't noticed any reduced pressure in the house either from any of the taps/faucets which I would expect with a leak. Unless a garden tap/faucet is leaking

 

How long does it run continuously before it overheats? 

 

I assume it shuts off before when it overheats, yes? 

 

You are certain the tank has plenty of water in it while the tank is running continuously and overheating, yes? 

 

Are there any check/non-return valves in the system? 

 

Do you also have a roof tank?

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Yellowtail

[bankruatsteve]

8 minutes ago, 2009 said:

The setup is: well pump to storage tank. Then, inline pump to house

So, you don't have an option for the well pump to bypass the tank/pump to supply water to the house? 

[sandyf]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:13 AM, giddyup said:

The pump only runs when a tap is turned on, but it runs in short bursts, probably less than a second apart. Not sure if all the info you give is applicable to the Mitsu pump, or it could be it's just over my head. I wouldn't know where the pressure switch is located. The problem is finding someone who knows what they are doing, not the average Thai handyman who just hits it with a spanner and hopes for a result.

I had the same problem a few weeks back. I had had it some time before and drained the tank. The pump is inside a sort of shed and I ended up with water all over the place. This time I cleared everything away and was going to make a trough to run the water outside. By the time I had found something suitable the problem had cleared itself, maybe about a week.

Much more likely to be air problem, so if you want to drain the tank, close the inlet, open an outlet to relieve the pressure and remove the drain plug near the bottom of the pump. Be prepared for the water to come out quite fast to start with. Good luck.

[2009]

27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

How long does it run continuously before it overheats? 

 

I assume it shuts off before when it overheats, yes? 

 

You are certain the tank has plenty of water in it while the tank is running continuously and overheating, yes? 

 

Are there any check/non-return valves in the system? 

 

Do you also have a roof tank?

 

 

 

We are turning it on and off as we use it to prevent overheating, however it shut off once I am not sure how long it had been running maybe a couple hours.

 

No roof tank. Not option to use well to supply house.

 

I did your experiment (shut off valve to house) and the pump didn't stop running.

 

I took off the cover (which I have done many times) and lo and behold I notice (this time) water trickling from the pump chambre thing. I never noticed it before but we gave had this problem a while and I have looked a many times but never saw it before

 

There is a circular metal part with screws to open and the water is coming from there. I assume there is a rubber gasket under there which may have worn out. 

 

What do u think?

 

Thanks for your help

Edited June 16, 2021 by 2009

[digbeth]

I have the same problem at my house, since replacing our old pump with new,  the new pump would get waterlogged and we have to drain the pump every few months, draining is easy, most pumps should have a bottom most hole you can unscrew with a broadside of a screwdriver (after you have turned the power and shut off the water of course) let it drain out, open the top priming holes in the pump to speed things up helps

It only happens in the pump for upstairs part of the house we don't use often, I suspect the water sitting in the pipes flow back into the pump, a check valve might have prevented this, but draining once a few months is not too much trouble for now

[bankruatsteve]

57 minutes ago, 2009 said:

What do u think?

Looks like a pump issue after all. If the bolts are corroded, it's probably time for a new pump. Did you try to tighten? My guess is your chance of fixing 50%.

[Yellowtail]

It could be the pressure activated shut-off switch is stuck closed. If you're reasonably handy, you might see if it's stuck, and if it is, un-stick it. 

 

If you're not handy you might get a local shop that sells & services pumps to have a look at it. If it's a relatively cheap (<B800)  I'd have it fixed, otherwise I'd just  bite the bullet and replace it. 

 

Did you say it was seven years old? That's a good bit of service, and if it's over-heated a few time and run continuously at pressure for hours it's likely pretty well worn...

[thvima]

hello,

 

I found an old pump connected to the main water, but this house has no blue plastic tank, so it means that water was coming directly from the main.

I cannot make this pump work now, so I guess it is dead after years not being checked ?

What do you think that happen when the pump is plugged but main water is stopped, no water coming in, will the pump die ?

is there a special pump that would stop succkking whenno water is coming from the main ? A kind of automatic on and off pump ?

 

thank you.

[bankruatsteve]

13 minutes ago, thvima said:

I found an old pump connected to the main water, but this house has no blue plastic tank, so it means that water was coming directly from the main.

First, a pump connected directly to the mains is illegal (most of the world and some say Thailand as well).  You need a holding tank for proper pump supply to the house.

[2009]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Looks like a pump issue after all. If the bolts are corroded, it's probably time for a new pump. Did you try to tighten? My guess is your chance of fixing 50%.

 

I didn't try. It has never been taken off. I thought maybe the rubber gasket.

 

However maybe the water has corroded the bolts cos we left this property for about 6 months. Maybe the water just sitting in there made it go bad.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

First, a pump connected directly to the mains is illegal (most of the world and some say Thailand as well).  You need a holding tank for proper pump supply to the house.

It’s not only illegal everywhere including in Thailand it’s also dangerous both for you and your neighbours. The Thai supply, as in almost every country, is designed to have positive pressure. The directly connected pump creates negative pressure that allows more contamination or failure of the pipes. 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, 2009 said:

 

I didn't try. It has never been taken off. I thought maybe the rubber gasket.

 

However maybe the water has corroded the bolts cos we left this property for about 6 months. Maybe the water just sitting in there made it go bad.

If you are referring to the bolts that are attached to the pump, then every chance it is corrosion. They are stud welded to the tank and if not done right the joint won't last long.

I had that on a Mitsy pump some years ago, it was only about 18 months old. Looked like seepage when first started and then a pin hole developed with a fine jet of water. Had a stainless steel tank fitted, about 2000 baht, and pump been ok now for nearly 10 years.

[thvima]

On 6/16/2021 at 11:53 AM, bankruatsteve said:

First, a pump connected directly to the mains is illegal (most of the world and some say Thailand as well).  You need a holding tank for proper pump supply to the house.

 

Wrong, please read PEA rules, it's not recommended but not illegal.

HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS villages have a pump without a tank.

 

 

[mikebike]

5 minutes ago, thvima said:

 

Wrong, please read PEA rules, it's not recommended but not illegal.

HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS villages have a pump without a tank.

 

 

55555... hard to take you seriously when you think the ELECTRIC AUTHORITY (PEA) makes water rules and regs. 55555!

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, thvima said:

 

Wrong, please read PEA rules, it's not recommended but not illegal.

HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS villages have a pump without a tank.

 

 

Yah, is QAnon active in Thailand?  Perhaps you could quote the Provincial Electricity Authority rules that clarify water pump usage?

BTW: Thailand does not have hundreds of thousands of villages.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Yah, is QAnon active in Thailand?  Perhaps you could quote the Provincial Electricity Authority rules that clarify water pump usage?

BTW: Thailand does not have hundreds of thousands of villages.

 

He said hundreds OR thousands.

 

Virtually everyone using a pressure washer is pumping directly from mains....

[sometimewoodworker]

35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Virtually everyone using a pressure washer is pumping directly from mains....

While wrong, (a large percentage are doing it correctly by feeding a tank from the mains supply) most pressure washers use tens of litres, possibly up to a hundred or two per time, while households use tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of litres per month. 
 

So the small amount that a pressure washer uses is likely to make little difference while the large amounts for domestic use are a different story. 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

While wrong, (a large percentage are doing it correctly by feeding a tank from the mains supply) most pressure washers use tens of litres, possibly up to a hundred or two per time, while households use tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of litres per month. 
 

So the small amount that a pressure washer uses is likely to make little difference while the large amounts for domestic use are a different story. 

 

Only a small percentage of people in the US (and I assume other arguably first world countries) have water storage tanks, so I think when we're talking about "everywhere", I just don't think the percentage is that high, but when I said "virtually no one", I likely overstated. 

 

In any event, it's either illegal to pump from mains or it is not, the size of the pump really would not matter. If it were illegal to pump from mains "everywhere", than it would be illegal to operate a pressure washer direct from the main. I do not believe this to be true.

 

It is likely that (depending on where you are) building codes disallow a permanent installation that pumps water from the mains. 

 

Pumping from the main is absolutely not a good idea, but right or wrong, many buildings in Thailand pump direct from main into the building or to roof-top tanks. I know the building I'm in used to pump from the main to the roof-top tank.

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Only a small percentage of people in the US (and I assume other arguably first world countries) have water storage tanks,

The facts regarding water tanks in other countries are not really relevant as we are in Thailand. FWIW the U.K. has had virtually universal cold water storage tanks until very recently and there are still millions of houses with them. So your assumption is wrong. 
 

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If it were illegal to pump from mains "everywhere", than it would be illegal to operate a pressure washer direct from the main.

There are often laws/regulations that are overlooked or not enforced depending on the situation.
A non commercial pressure washer uses very little water and for short times so it is something that’s likely to be let slip even if not legal. 

Mobile commercial pressure washing services can have their own water tanks that they carry with them and fill from the house supply then pump from them. They can also draw from the house supply directly as the flow rate used is little more than a normal tap. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The facts regarding water tanks in other countries are not really relevant as we are in Thailand. FWIW the U.K. has had virtually universal cold water storage tanks until very recently and there are still millions of houses with them. So your assumption is wrong. 
 

There are often laws/regulations that are overlooked or not enforced depending on the situation.
A non commercial pressure washer uses very little water and for short times so it is something that’s likely to be let slip even if not legal. 

Mobile commercial pressure washing services can have their own water tanks that they carry with them and fill from the house supply then pump from them. They can also draw from the house supply directly as the flow rate used is little more than a normal tap. 

 

You said: "... illegal everywhere including in Thailand..." 

 

Millions in the UK out of how many?

 

And for every "Mobile commercial pressure washing service..." there are a hundred homeowners that own one. 

 

You crack me up. 

[bankruatsteve]

OK. Enough on legality. I don't know for sure the legality here or anywhere else. What I do know is that having a dedicated pump on the mains is bad. Most (?) pumps do not shut off with dry input. It seems that would be a simple feature to add, but there you go. 

I too will run pressure washer off the mains, my washer does also. But, if the mains go dry, I don't continue. Whether a pump on the mains could suck out the neighbors pool, I doubt it. 

So let's just leave a bad practice at that. I don't think any more opinions or discussion is relavant.