American motorcyclist killed in head on collision in Phrae

[wprime]

On 5/27/2021 at 5:47 PM, bojo said:

Is it just me or has onyone else ever noticed that the locals hang behind you on the straight for ages and then suddenly, just as one is approaching a blind bend, they overtake, swerving out wide.....I've experienced that on many occasions...................

 

Yes, it's because of the local belief that, if you can't see anything, it means there's nothing there.

[richard_smith237]

14 hours ago, scammed said:

yes, if it hadnt come as a shock to him that someone (me) summoned right in front of him,

he could have calculated that i would have completed the cross long long before he arrived,

but i just recall someone on a bicycle was faced

with an mc that for some reason decided to stop on the lane the bicyclist was using, so the bicyclist fell.

 

this goes to show that unexpected events can and will go straight to hell because you cant foresee the event chain

and two wheeled vehicles are inherently unstable,

making them useless for maneuvering in surprise conditions

 

Actually, the gyroscopic forces of the wheels provides a great deal of stability and this needs to be countered to manoeuvre quickly - this where experience of a rider counts. 

 

Its clear in the incident you described an inexperienced rider ‘grabbed’ too much front brake (a common issue and one whereby ABS is essential safety tool for any new rider).

 

 

BTW: I’m not blaming you for causing an accident. A similar event has happened to me. In my car I’d nosed out onto busy a road (in Bangkok), the type of road and traffic density whereby if we don’t edge out and take advantage of the smallest gap we will never get anywhere (assertive city driving). A car stopped to let me out, 3 motorcycles had also stopped, I was across the road then I heard the ’scraping’... A motorcycle has not seen the car and other bikes stop in front of him had been surprised, hit the brakes too hard, dropped the front end and slid into the back of one of the other bikes (the accident was ultimately my fault).

 

 

Instability as you call it is actually ‘created’ by inexperience... locking up a front brake, not counter-steering etc. But, the issues which are of little concern to an experienced rider are magnified by inexperience with consequences in an inexperienced rider. 

 

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, wprime said:

On 5/27/2021 at 5:47 PM, bojo said:

Is it just me or has onyone else ever noticed that the locals hang behind you on the straight for ages and then suddenly, just as one is approaching a blind bend, they overtake, swerving out wide.....I've experienced that on many occasions...................

 

Yes, it's because of the local belief that, if you can't see anything, it means there's nothing there.

 

IMO - its other motorcyclists which are the major hazard when out riding....  

 

Other riders magnify risk which would be absent if they simply positioned themselves far more intelligently when in your proximity. 

[wprime]

51 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IMO - its other motorcyclists which are the major hazard when out riding....  

 

Other riders magnify risk which would be absent if they simply positioned themselves far more intelligently when in your proximity. 

 

Absolutely, I only drive cars these days and considering that bikes are willing to risk collisions with me, I can only imagine what they're willing to risk with other bikes.

 

Here's one overtaking against the traffic who played chicken with me several years ago:

 

 

I used to actually ride bikes but after seeing some tourists with no brains after crashing their big bike in front of Big C Pattaya some 10 years ago, no more for me (well they had brains, they were just splattered across the pavement).

[Odysseus123]

13 hours ago, Freigeist365 said:

Shame on you!

Yes indeed.For shame.

[Odysseus123]

59 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

1 hour ago, wprime said:

On 5/27/2021 at 8:47 PM, bojo said:

Is it just me or has onyone else ever noticed that the locals hang behind you on the straight for ages and then suddenly, just as one is approaching a blind bend, they overtake, swerving out wide.....I've experienced that on many occasions...................

 

Yes, it's because of the local belief that, if you can't see anything, it means there's nothing there.

Expand   Expand  

 

IMO - its other motorcyclists which are the major hazard when out riding....  

It isn't.

[Odysseus123]

15 minutes ago, wprime said:

 

Absolutely, I only drive cars these days and considering that bikes are willing to risk collisions with me, I can only imagine what they're willing to risk with other bikes.

 

Here's one overtaking against the traffic who played chicken with me several years ago:

 

 

I used to actually ride bikes but after seeing some tourists with no brains after crashing their big bike in front of Big C Pattaya some 10 years ago, no more for me (well they had brains, they were just splattered across the pavement).

Oh indeed...tourists(Caucasians)..eh?

 

Don't give up your day job.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Odysseus123

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

IMO - its other motorcyclists which are the major hazard when out riding....  

It isn't.

 

 

 

Reading comprehension issues....  it most definitely is my opinion that other motorcyclists are the major hazard !

 

 

Just incase you are slow on the uptake of ‘forum or chat acronyms...  IMO = In My Opinion !!!

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

3 hours ago, wprime said:

 

Absolutely, I only drive cars these days and considering that bikes are willing to risk collisions with me, I can only imagine what they're willing to risk with other bikes.

 

Here's one overtaking against the traffic who played chicken with me several years ago:

 

 

I used to actually ride bikes but after seeing some tourists with no brains after crashing their big bike in front of Big C Pattaya some 10 years ago, no more for me (well they had brains, they were just splattered across the pavement).

Expand  

Oh indeed...tourists(Caucasians)..eh?

 

Don't give up your day job.

 

Erm... you haven’t been on the sauce have you Ody ??? you’re not making much sense.

 

 

Tourists can be nuisance, those who come on holiday, have no experience and ride a motorbike but fail to control it properly...  they are as much of a nuisance in tourist areas as delivery riders are in Bangkok. 

[scammed]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Actually, the gyroscopic forces of the wheels provides a great deal of stability and this needs to be countered to manoeuvre quickly - this where experience of a rider counts. 

 

Its clear in the incident you described an inexperienced rider ‘grabbed’ too much front brake (a common issue and one whereby ABS is essential safety tool for any new rider).

 

 

BTW: I’m not blaming you for causing an accident. A similar event has happened to me. In my car I’d nosed out onto busy a road (in Bangkok), the type of road and traffic density whereby if we don’t edge out and take advantage of the smallest gap we will never get anywhere (assertive city driving). A car stopped to let me out, 3 motorcycles had also stopped, I was across the road then I heard the ’scraping’... A motorcycle has not seen the car and other bikes stop in front of him had been surprised, hit the brakes too hard, dropped the front end and slid into the back of one of the other bikes (the accident was ultimately my fault).

 

 

Instability as you call it is actually ‘created’ by inexperience... locking up a front brake, not counter-steering etc. But, the issues which are of little concern to an experienced rider are magnified by inexperience with consequences in an inexperienced rider. 

 

you theorize, in reality its momentum that rules the bikes trajectory, they become incredibly dangerous to be on the moment someone summons in their path,

there is very little to do beside steering into the ditch or throw yourself off the bike, both of which can also be lethal. in a car you have at least 4 wheels so you for all practical purposes cant lose balance, but on a bike you can only ever lean to gradually steer off, any attempt to do more result in loss of balance

[wprime]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

in a car you have at least 4 wheels so you for all practical purposes cant lose balance

 

Thai drivers prove this wrong on a daily basis.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

you theorize, in reality its momentum that rules the bikes trajectory, they become incredibly dangerous to be on the moment someone summons in their path,

there is very little to do beside steering into the ditch or throw yourself off the bike, both of which can also be lethal. in a car you have at least 4 wheels so you for all practical purposes cant lose balance,

 

 

The momentum of ‘anything’ determines trajectory, but the gyroscopic forces of the spinning wheels generate a significant degree of a motorcycles balance. 

 

Agreed, you can’t fall off a car - if thats the point you are trying to make... you have seatbelts too etc...    but none of that means an accident is unavoidable and fast action can be taken. 

 

Quote

but on a bike you can only ever lean to gradually steer off, any attempt to do more result in loss of balance

 

That is incorrect......  the suggestion above implies you do not know what ‘Counter-steering’ is.... You probably did it as a kid on a pushbike without realising you were doing it.

 

 

Counter-steering: To turn left quickly push the left handlebar forwards which generates the desired lean angle to the left then bring in the handlebars to steer. 

 

Steering by simply leaning alone and then turning the handlebars once the desired lean angle is achieved generates a much slower response and is far less effective at greater speeds. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by richard_smith237

[scammed]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

The momentum of ‘anything’ determines trajectory, but the gyroscopic forces of the spinning wheels generate a significant degree of a motorcycles balance. 

 

Agreed, you can’t fall off a car - if thats the point you are trying to make... you have seatbelts too etc...    but none of that means an accident is unavoidable and fast action can be taken. 

 

 

That is incorrect......  the suggestion above implies you do not know what ‘Counter-steering’ is.... You probably did it as a kid on a pushbike without realising you were doing it.

 

 

Counter-steering: To turn left quickly push the left handlebar forwards which generates the desired lean angle to the left then bring in the handlebars to steer. 

 

Steering by simply leaning alone and then turning the handlebars once the desired lean angle is achieved generates a much slower response and is far less effective at greater speeds. 

 

 

 

 

 

no, on the fine sand here there is no counter steering,

you lose what little grip you had and the bike fold underneath you. you are theorizing

[richard_smith237]

42 minutes ago, scammed said:

no, on the fine sand here there is no counter steering,

you lose what little grip you had and the bike fold underneath you. you are theorizing

 

Ok... you don’t understand....  

 

Have a look at some counter-steering videos on YouTube....  it’ll help you get it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljywO-B_yew

 

 

 

Even on your slippy road, unless you are travelling at a very low speeds (<15kmh) you are counter-steering without knowing it even to a small degree. 

 

At higher speeds counter steering and knowing how much input is needed to turn quickly is an essential skill to avoiding incident / collision.

 

The point I’ve been wanting to make about ‘counter-steering’ all along is that while you mentioned the deceased motorcyclists couldn’t have made the bike move that much by ’simply leaning alone’ (because there wasn’t sufficient space (quote: he’d need a landing strip sized for boing 747)) he could have adjusted trajectory much more quickly and in a far shorter distance if he had counter-steered.

.... of course, if his input was too great for the speed he may have lost traction and dropped the bike, or he may not and he’d have shifted his bike onto the shoulder in a split second.

 

 

You mentioned in your initial comment that ‘attempting to manoeuvre on a bike even at 50kmh leads to a  loss of balance’....      IF you do ride a motorcycle, you really need to understand counter-steering and how the bike balances and turns, it may save your life. 

 

   On 5/31/2021 at 2:54 PM,  scammed said: 

attempt to maneuver on a bike even at 50 km/h leads to loss of balance, you need a landing strip sized for boeing 747 to wiggle it out until you are (maybe) safe.

 

there is a misconception here that the biker rules the trajectory, but it aint so, its momentum that rules

 

 

This video is quite graphic but it highlights the importance of understanding counter-steering in an emergency. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVE79XT8-Mg

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by richard_smith237

[frantick]

Something many motorbike riders don't know even after years of riding; push right go right, push left go left.

 

I'll admit, I rode many years before I learned this.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

Something many motorbike riders don't know even after years of riding; push right go right, push left go left.

 

I'll admit, I rode many years before I learned this.

 

Same here... I’d been riding for a few years and doing it (counter-steering) anyway before I realised what it was. 

 

Within regular riding is natural and normal, we are relaxed and we counter-steer to lean the bike and turn. 

 

But, in an emergency we tense up and turn the bars in the wrong direction - knowing about counter-steering and practicing it at a faster speed saves lives. 

 

I didn’t want to take over the thread with a counter-steering debate, however, someone has tragically lost their life and it a possibility that this incident could have been avoided with the use of counter-steering to shift the trajectory of the motorcycle to the left and avoid the collision. 

 

So... it is important that people know. Even if like scammed (forum member) who doesn’t get it yet, he will eventually, and it could made the difference between an accident and avoiding an accident one day. 

 

 

[scammed]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Ok... you don’t understand....  

 

Have a look at some counter-steering videos on YouTube....  it’ll help you get it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljywO-B_yew

 

 

 

Even on your slippy road, unless you are travelling at a very low speeds (<15kmh) you are counter-steering without knowing it even to a small degree. 

 

At higher speeds counter steering and knowing how much input is needed to turn quickly is an essential skill to avoiding incident / collision.

 

The point I’ve been wanting to make about ‘counter-steering’ all along is that while you mentioned the deceased motorcyclists couldn’t have made the bike move that much by ’simply leaning alone’ (because there wasn’t sufficient space (quote: he’d need a landing strip sized for boing 747)) he could have adjusted trajectory much more quickly and in a far shorter distance if he had counter-steered.

.... of course, if his input was too great for the speed he may have lost traction and dropped the bike, or he may not and he’d have shifted his bike onto the shoulder in a split second.

 

 

You mentioned in your initial comment that ‘attempting to manoeuvre on a bike even at 50kmh leads to a  loss of balance’....      IF you do ride a motorcycle, you really need to understand counter-steering and how the bike balances and turns, it may save your life. 

 

   On 5/31/2021 at 2:54 PM,  scammed said: 

attempt to maneuver on a bike even at 50 km/h leads to loss of balance, you need a landing strip sized for boeing 747 to wiggle it out until you are (maybe) safe.

 

there is a misconception here that the biker rules the trajectory, but it aint so, its momentum that rules

 

 

This video is quite graphic but it highlights the importance of understanding counter-steering in an emergency. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVE79XT8-Mg

 

 

as an old biker told me when i started going to mc clubs,

dont try to take evasive action if a dog gets in the way,

rather speed up to push it away.

 

the reason is simple: attempt to take evasive action

is a recipe for accident, you lose control.

the fact that you keep arguing for attempt to take evasive action shows me you are hypothesizing

how it can be done.

it really cant, you are in for a world of pain if you try,

im making the assumption you are driving car on a regular basis rather than a bike, and you arent trying to give well meaning advice, you are trying to put the blame on a biker on a pcx who got both lanes blocked by oncoming cars, he had nowhere to go except the wilderness, driving out on the shoulder sand is lethal at 90 km/h, nobody can keep balance there at that speed, he knew it, i know it, but apparently you dont, or pretend that you dont

Edited June 2, 2021 by scammed

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, scammed said:

as an old biker told me when i started going to mc clubs,

dont try to take evasive action if a dog gets in the way,

rather speed up to push it away.

 

the reason is simple: attempt to take evasive action

is a recipe for accident, you lose control.

the fact that you keep arguing for attempt to take evasive action shows me you are hypothesizing

how it can be done.

it really cant, you are in for a world of pain if you try,

im making the assumption you are driving car on a regular basis rather than a bike, and you arent trying to give well meaning advice, you are trying to put the blame on a biker on a pcx who got both lanes blocked by oncoming cars, he had nowhere to go except the wilderness,

 

With each and every response you are becoming more and more irrational. 

 

Are you seriously comparing a collision with dog to a head on collision with a car ?

 

Will that old biker tell you speed up and ‘push through’ the oncoming car ?

 

I get what you mean with the Dog, or a cat or any animal....   but the reason for that is if you take evasive action there is a strong possibility they will move into your path again and then you have lost some stability which when combined with an impact quarantines a spill.

 

That said, when a dog runs out you can try and take evasive behind it, the same when a motorcycle pulled out etc (head for the space behind it not in front).

 

 

I drive both a car and a motorcycle on a regular basis and I’m most certainly not placing the blame of the accident on the deceased - A car pulled out into the path of an oncoming motorcyclist and is 100% to blame for the accident. I have not deviated from this opinion of blame. 

 

That said: Anyone who rides a motorcycle, with the exception of yourself, can see that the motorcyclist ‘could’ have counter-steered.

 

7 hours ago, scammed said:

driving out on the shoulder sand is lethal at 90 km/h, nobody can keep balance there at that speed, he knew it, i know it, but apparently you dont, or pretend that you dont

 

You mentioned he had no where to go because driving onto the sand / gravel at 90kmh is lethal - I disagree. 

Lethal means sufficient to cause death - a skid off a bike with no impact will be messy.

 

You can’t seriously be suggesting that accepting the head on collision is safer than avoiding the head on collision and risking dropping the bike and sliding / skidding etc..... 

 

Are you really suggesting the rider evaluated the risk of skidding vs the risks of a head on collision and chose the head on collision ???? - thats utterly preposterous but that is how your argument reads. 

 

Some of your responses are outrageously illogical. 

 

 

 

There is a very simple fact:

IF the motorcyclist was experienced he may have counter-steered away from a head on collision.

Its on the shoulder its very possible that he’d drop the bike and receive injuries - but they’d be far less life threatening. 

 

OF course, no one faces an oncoming collision and evaluates the risk of injury. But the first and foremost instinct is in the split second to avoid collision. The deceased in this case either suffered object fixation and / or couldn’t counter steer out of the path of collision. 

 

[scammed]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

With each and every response you are becoming more and more irrational. 

 

Are you seriously comparing a collision with dog to a head on collision with a car ?

 

Will that old biker tell you speed up and ‘push through’ the oncoming car ?

 

I get what you mean with the Dog, or a cat or any animal....   but the reason for that is if you take evasive action there is a strong possibility they will move into your path again and then you have lost some stability which when combined with an impact quarantines a spill.

 

That said, when a dog runs out you can try and take evasive behind it, the same when a motorcycle pulled out etc (head for the space behind it not in front).

 

 

I drive both a car and a motorcycle on a regular basis and I’m most certainly not placing the blame of the accident on the deceased - A car pulled out into the path of an oncoming motorcyclist and is 100% to blame for the accident. I have not deviated from this opinion of blame. 

 

That said: Anyone who rides a motorcycle, with the exception of yourself, can see that the motorcyclist ‘could’ have counter-steered.

 

 

You mentioned he had no where to go because driving onto the sand / gravel at 90kmh is lethal - I disagree. 

Lethal means sufficient to cause death - a skid off a bike with no impact will be messy.

 

You can’t seriously be suggesting that accepting the head on collision is safer than avoiding the head on collision and risking dropping the bike and sliding / skidding etc..... 

 

Are you really suggesting the rider evaluated the risk of skidding vs the risks of a head on collision and chose the head on collision ???? - thats utterly preposterous but that is how your argument reads. 

 

Some of your responses are outrageously illogical. 

 

 

 

There is a very simple fact:

IF the motorcyclist was experienced he may have counter-steered away from a head on collision.

Its on the shoulder its very possible that he’d drop the bike and receive injuries - but they’d be far less life threatening. 

 

OF course, no one faces an oncoming collision and evaluates the risk of injury. But the first and foremost instinct is in the split second to avoid collision. The deceased in this case either suffered object fixation and / or couldn’t counter steer out of the path of collision. 

 

no, the reason was not that the dog would somehow

run faster than the bike to get in the way again,

the reason is that the attempt to take evasive action is too dangerous.

 

the best he could do in this situation is to break as much as the pcx allow, which aint much, and pray the car would abort and fall back behind the truck

Edited June 2, 2021 by scammed

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

no, the reason was not that the dog would somehow

run faster than the bike to get in the way again,

the reason is that the attempt to take evasive action is too dangerous.

 

Agreed - that makes sense... in all likelihood the dog would run out of the path of the motorcyclists thus rendering any ‘overreaction’ unnecessary and dangerous. 

 

 

1 hour ago, scammed said:

the best he could do in this situation is to break as much as the pcx allow, which aint much, and pray the car would abort and fall back behind the truck

 

I completely disagree - there was room to avoid the head on collision. IF the motorcyclist had time to brake has hard as the bike would allow, there was also time to counter-steer and manoeuvre the bike to the side of the road and avoid the head on collision. 

 

In any similar situation an experienced motorcyclist would take the bike out of the path of the on coming vehicle rather than rely on ‘brake and prey the other car also stops. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

the reason is that the attempt to take evasive action is too dangerous.

 

It's clear we are not going to agree on this.

But I do hope you learn you ‘counter-steer’ so that when faced with trouble you have that response in your skillset so you can avoid an accident where braking alone wont help. 

 

Additionally, I hope our discussion has given cause for other motorcyclists who may not have known about counter-steering and object avoidance to look it up and learn about it - hard on the brakes is not the only option.

 

[scammed]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed - that makes sense... in all likelihood the dog would run out of the path of the motorcyclists thus rendering any ‘overreaction’ unnecessary and dangerous. 

 

 

 

I completely disagree - there was room to avoid the head on collision. IF the motorcyclist had time to brake has hard as the bike would allow, there was also time to counter-steer and manoeuvre the bike to the side of the road and avoid the head on collision. 

 

In any similar situation an experienced motorcyclist would take the bike out of the path of the on coming vehicle rather than rely on ‘brake and prey the other car also stops. 

both lanes was occupied, he had only the dirt left, and that is not an option at highway speed, he would have gone down if he had made an attempt

[scammed]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It's clear we are not going to agree on this.

But I do hope you learn you ‘counter-steer’ so that when faced with trouble you have that response in your skillset so you can avoid an accident where braking alone wont help. 

 

Additionally, I hope our discussion has given cause for other motorcyclists who may not have known about counter-steering and object avoidance to look it up and learn about it - hard on the brakes is not the only option.

 

you are theorizing, its clear that you have not had someone cut you off on a bike, and have only some vague memory and ideas what it might be like to drive mc

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, scammed said:

both lanes was occupied, he had only the dirt left, and that is not an option at highway speed, he would have gone down if he had made an attempt

 

IF given the choice - a slide on the dirt or a head on collision with a car ?

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, scammed said:

you are theorizing, its clear that you have not had someone cut you off on a bike, and have only some vague memory and ideas what it might be like to drive mc

 

 

 

Do you really believe when riding a motorcycle 'counter-steering' is a theory and not something real ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scammed]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IF given the choice - a slide on the dirt or a head on collision with a car ?

 

 

 

 

both are painful, his only option was pain,

he could only hope the villain in the car would fall back

[scammed]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

 

Do you really believe when riding a motorcycle 'counter-steering' is a theory and not something real ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i believe you are talking about something so obvious

that it wasnt worth the space, to promote the idea that a bike should yield even if that yield is off the roads

[NanLaew]

On 6/1/2021 at 11:58 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Ok... you don’t understand....  

 

Have a look at some counter-steering videos on YouTube....  it’ll help you get it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljywO-B_yew

 

 

 

Even on your slippy road, unless you are travelling at a very low speeds (<15kmh) you are counter-steering without knowing it even to a small degree. 

 

At higher speeds counter steering and knowing how much input is needed to turn quickly is an essential skill to avoiding incident / collision.

 

The point I’ve been wanting to make about ‘counter-steering’ all along is that while you mentioned the deceased motorcyclists couldn’t have made the bike move that much by ’simply leaning alone’ (because there wasn’t sufficient space (quote: he’d need a landing strip sized for boing 747)) he could have adjusted trajectory much more quickly and in a far shorter distance if he had counter-steered.

.... of course, if his input was too great for the speed he may have lost traction and dropped the bike, or he may not and he’d have shifted his bike onto the shoulder in a split second.

 

 

You mentioned in your initial comment that ‘attempting to manoeuvre on a bike even at 50kmh leads to a  loss of balance’....      IF you do ride a motorcycle, you really need to understand counter-steering and how the bike balances and turns, it may save your life. 

 

   On 5/31/2021 at 2:54 PM,  scammed said: 

attempt to maneuver on a bike even at 50 km/h leads to loss of balance, you need a landing strip sized for boeing 747 to wiggle it out until you are (maybe) safe.

 

there is a misconception here that the biker rules the trajectory, but it aint so, its momentum that rules

 

 

This video is quite graphic but it highlights the importance of understanding counter-steering in an emergency. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVE79XT8-Mg

 

 

 

Thanks. Very enlightening. Watching some of the other videos that queued behind the one ypu selected made it clear. This was a particularly clear explanation.

 

https://youtu.be/QpqdNFltG4A

 

On 6/3/2021 at 4:03 AM, richard_smith237 said:

On 6/2/2021 at 8:13 PM, scammed said:

you are theorizing, its clear that you have not had someone cut you off on a bike, and have only some vague memory and ideas what it might be like to drive mc

 

 

Do you really believe when riding a motorcycle 'counter-steering' is a theory and not something real ???

 

Maybe @scammed doesn't realize that he's been counter-steering (or push steering as the 20-year motorbike police trainer on my posted YouTube prefers to call it) all his life and isn't aware that it is what has kept him from flying off the road on the first bend? After all it's a steering transition that the rider doesn't consciously have to switch to as he gains speed. However, he does need to avoid the instinctive reaction to 'steer away from danger' with handle bar steering when something gets in the way.