The naming of COVID variants invites another pandemic – of racism

[Thomas J]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Again, I have not advocated for unlimited immigration. You have just provided justification for making immigration based on need, not limiting it to the rich. Not being able to help everybody is not a justification for refusing to help any.

 

No not at all.  If I have a family from a country that can not speak English, is not educated, has no skills, has a criminal history as contrasted to a Family from Nigeria whose father is an electrician, mother an English teacher and three children all who can speak English and are good students I want to be able to choose to take the latter not the former. 

No country, even the USA can continue to take in people who are not self sustaining.  If they don't possess employable skills that can support themselves they are then on public welfare and present an ever increasing financial burden on the citizens who do have employable skills and pay for the benefits the country provides. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, ikke1959 said:

ethnic group... we are farangs a word that means in from France.. so not brown Thai but white people

non Thai nationals is what the policy is about.

[ikke1959]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I know what racism is, it was this I was asking you to explain - all non Thais are aliens or farangs

I think it is very clear

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, ikke1959 said:

ethnic group... we are farangs a word that means in from France.. so not brown Thai but white people

It doesn't mean from France at all!

[ozimoron]

Just now, Thomas J said:

 

No not at all.  If I have a family from a country that can not speak English, is not educated, has no skills, has a criminal history as contrasted to a Family from Nigeria whose father is an electrician, mother an English teacher and three children all who can speak English and are good students I want to be able to choose to take the latter not the former. 

 

A criminal history is a different matter. You should NOT be able to prefer the English speaker or the immigrant who can fend for themselves over the one more needy.

[clivebaxter]

34 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

It was Kansas, Toto.

"The first observations of illness and mortality were documented in the United States (in Kansas) in March 1918 and then in April in France, Germany and the United Kingdom. To maintain morale, World War I censors minimized these early reports. Newspapers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain, such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII, and these stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit. This gave rise to the name "Spanish" flu. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin, with varying views as to its location." Actually, you're probably right then. China by default. ????

 

No, newer evidence points to Chinese workers taking it to the USA, both History Channel and

National Geographic have articles on their web site, I posted them the other day.

 

1918 Flu Pandemic That Killed 50 Million Originated in China, Historians Say

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health

Edited June 1, 2021 by clivebaxter

[ikke1959]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It doesn't mean from France at all!

https://www.into-asia.com/thai_language/farang.php

Quote

and read the comments too

 

[sezze]

While a racism debate ( of a specific country ) has seem to take over the subject , i want to give my vote on the subject .

For me , they just could have kept the location of the mutations , and the original strain . I do not find it racist , or a problem in any case , neither do i have bad feelings for those places . Many events in history are linked to locations , and this is imho no different .

So , Wuhan corona is fine for me ( and not Wuhan or Chinese flu , since it isnt flu in the 1st place and 2nd Wuhan was 1st detection city ) .

After the mutations can be called for city or country , depending on the size of the outbreak or detection . Normally it is country since they are detected later the original start ,Wuhan was pretty obvious the 1st outbreak visible and detected . 

So Indian strain covid 19 , UK , SA , Brazilian , maybe Thai version ... idc . it is just a location , a town / country where something "new" has been detected .

NO country or leader has hoped for something like this to happen , this is not on purpose , even if research might find it is originated from a lab , i got no bad feelings for any of the people involved unless it was a terrorist attack ( which im pretty sure it wasn't ) .

Only thing we can blame is the late or lacking attitude of some countries leaders , China in the 1st , but he/they are far from alone in this case .

[chalawaan]

6 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

No, newer evidence points to Chinese workers taking it to the USA, both History Channel and National Geographic have articles on their web site, I posted them the other day.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health

Yup. Thats what I said, Toto. There's no place like Hubei..

(You gotta wait for the puchline before rsponding bruh.)

Edited June 1, 2021 by chalawaan

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

There have not been 3 million asylum seekers in any yea

I did not say asylum seekers.  You said quotas based on "need"  Now one thing that has happened is since those counseling the illegals have told them the "magic word" is asylum.  

The fact that someone comes from a poor country is not a reason for asylum.  I can tell you that there are those who come to the USA and other countries to "escape persecution"  upon being granted asylum they then apply for all of their relatives to come irrespective of whether these people have any justification for asylum but now as a permanent resident the person receiving asylum can petition for relatives to immigrate.  To add insult to injury some of these "asylum seekers" then go back on holiday to the countries they fled from to visit family, and friends or to escape the cold weather in the region they located to.   

If the USA put people in harms way such as they did in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan then we owe it to them to bring them to safety. The fact that a person in Costa Rica is involved with drug dealers who now want to kill him should not make it automatically a case for the USA or any country to come to his rescue. 


 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, sezze said:

 

For me , they just could have kept the location of the mutations , and the original strain . I do not find it racist , or a problem in any case , neither do i have bad feelings for those places .

 

You may not but other people clearly do. Do you have any objection to naming them using a system which prevents such prejudice?

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I already said, they were the same race but came from different countries. 

One race beating up others of the same race can NOT be racism, isn't that obvious? 

Ok so from the same race then it would be difficult I agree to classify that as racism instead that would be just hooligan behaviour based on nationalistic pride to the extreme.

 

However your original point: 

 

"banning foreigners getting in buses is NOT racist, as it includes all colours and ethnicities."

 

That most certainly is racism and disputing that just shows you really don't care what the correct definition is.

[Thomas J]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A criminal history is a different matter. You should NOT be able to prefer the English speaker or the immigrant who can fend for themselves over the one more needy.

Sorry I strongly disagree.  In order to function effectively in any country you need to be able to communicate.  You are far more likely to be successful and be able to procure employment if you can speak the native language.  If you can only speak Russian, Thai, or Swahili, what do you think your realistic chances of finding a job are? 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

https://www.into-asia.com/thai_language/farang.php

and read the comments too

 

I think I am more qualified to know the origins of the Thai word farang than Lizzie Glasgow, just because she know the Thai word for French has farang in it. 

Helmut Hamburg will be telling us it comes from potato next, as that is a 'man farang'. 

 

btw eh way, it has Persian roots. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

I did not say asylum seekers.  You said quotas based on "need"  Now one thing that has happened is since those counseling the illegals have told them the "magic word" is asylum.  

The fact that someone comes from a poor country is not a reason for asylum.  I can tell you that there are those who come to the USA and other countries to "escape persecution"  upon being granted asylum they then apply for all of their relatives to come irrespective of whether these people have any justification for asylum but now as a permanent resident the person receiving asylum can petition for relatives to immigrate.  To add insult to injury some of these "asylum seekers" then go back on holiday to the countries they fled from to visit family, and friends or to escape the cold weather in the region they located to.   

If the USA put people in harms way such as they did in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan then we owe it to them to bring them to safety. The fact that a person in Costa Rica is involved with drug dealers who now want to kill him should not make it automatically a case for the USA or any country to come to his rescue.
 

What about if the US props up a corrupt government and that policy creates refugees? Is that not putting them in harms way? I'm not suggesting that all refugees fit that profile but many do.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

Sorry I strongly disagree.  In order to function effectively in any country you need to be able to communicate.  You are far more likely to be successful and be able to procure employment if you can speak the native language.  If you can only speak Russian, Thai, or Swahili, what do you think your realistic chances of finding a job are? 

 

Often quite good. And their children most definitely can. Australia prevented Asians from entering the country for many years by giving them English tests which native speakers could not pass. You are advocating more of the same.

[Thomas J]

Just now, ozimoron said:

What about if the US props up a corrupt government and that policy creates refugees? Is that not putting them in harms way? I'm not suggesting that all refugees fit that profile but many do.

As I said about Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq or any other place.  If we created the situation then we have a responsibility to those who would be endangered by their affiliation with us.  That does not include the tribe in Africa who is warring with one of its neighbors.  That does not include the person hiding from the MS-13 gang in Guatemala.  Those are unfortunate but just because those individuals may be in a perilous situation does not automatically dump it in the USA's lap each time it occurs. 

 

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

I think it is very clear

And very wrong. PLease tell me the difference between alien and farang, as you mention them both.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

That does not include the person hiding from the MS-13 gang in Guatemala.  Those are unfortunate but just because those individuals may be in a perilous situation does not automatically dump it in the USA's lap each time it occurs.

 

It is incumbent upon the US to do what it can to help alleviate the situation, not to just say "not our problem".

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Often quite good. And their children most definitely can. Australia prevented Asians from entering the country for many years by giving them English tests which native speakers could not pass. You are advocating more of the same.

I am saying "preference"  Now I believe Australia still operates on a points based system for immigration.   People get along with those they have things in common with and they can communicate with.  When you allow any sizeable number of immigrants into the country that can not communicate you are most certainly guaranteeing they will be isolated and find difficulty in obtaining gainful employment. 

You are at a party and at the party are people who speak only English, some only Russian, and some only Chinese.  Which group do you associate with and attempt to establish contact with.  The same is true in everyday life.  If a person can not communicate they are at a huge disadvantage and it is like inviting a midget to play in the National Basketball League.  Kind, no misguided. 

[ikke1959]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I think I am more qualified to know the origins of the Thai word farang than Lizzie Glasgow, just because she know the Thai word for French has farang in it. 

Helmut Hamburg will be telling us it comes from potato next, as that is a 'man farang'. 

 

btw eh way, it has Persian roots. 

OkTHan I will tell you.. In the university in Bangkok when we had to do the Thai culture course for a teacher license the theacher told us the same. The word Farang comes from the word France. Farance but because the people could not say France it became Farang. Now you as Thai should know that .. or if you don't believe it look on the internet I am sure there is something to find there . You are qualified so if you have another explanation please inform me.. I want to learn

[Thomas J]

Just now, ozimoron said:

It is incumbent upon the US to do what it can to help alleviate the situation, not to just say "not our problem".

So "every problem" is the USA's problem to solve?  

 

[ikke1959]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

And very wrong. PLease tell me the difference between alien and farang, as you mention them both.

never been to immigration??? there they write that we are aliens and in other papers farangs.. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, ikke1959 said:

OkTHan I will tell you.. In the university in Bangkok when we had to do the Thai culture course for a teacher license the theacher told us the same. The word Farang comes from the word France. Farance but because the people could not say France it became Farang. Now you as Thai should know that .. or if you don't believe it look on the internet I am sure there is something to find there . You are qualified so if you have another explanation please inform me.. I want to learn

The etymology of a word is not necessarily related to its current usage.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

 

There was no attempt to disparage a nation by deliberately misnaming the virus variant.

Maybe you should read the link and refer to the article I quoted, the article said it was the Indian variant not me, I was the one correcting them, do you understand that or finding it a little difficult?

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ok so from the same race then it would be difficult I agree to classify that as racism instead that would be just hooligan behaviour based on nationalistic pride to the extreme.

 

However your original point: 

 

"banning foreigners getting in buses is NOT racist, as it includes all colours and ethnicities."

 

That most certainly is racism and disputing that just shows you really don't care what the correct definition is.

 You are mixing 'racism' with 'nationalism' and 'discrimination' and 'racial discrimination'.

Don't believe what the crazy BLM say.

 

 

harmful or unfair things that people say, do, or think based on the belief that their own race makes them more intelligent, good, moral, etc. than people of other races :

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/racism

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

So "every problem" is the USA's problem to solve? 

No, I can't make myself clear to those who evidently refuse to comprehend. I stated that the US has a moral obligation to help to the extent that it can. not to blanket refuse because it can't help everybody. The capacity of the US to accept migrants based on need is quite significant.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Maybe you should read the link and refer to the article I quoted, the article said it was the Indian variant not me, I was the one correcting them, do you understand that or finding it a little difficult?

 

The discussion then went to deliberately misnaming a virus in order to disparage the nation from whence it originated.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

The discussion then went to deliberately misnaming a virus in order to disparage the nation from whence it originated.

Quote me on that

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Quote me on that

I didn't accuse you. That discussion is in the thread and germane to the debate which has ensued. It is also the title of the thread.