Where To Buy Solar Hybrid Inverter And what to buy

[Pink7]

I think im going to place my panels on both sides of my roof (North and south) from what i understand how the sun move here. My roof is 15 degree. So i guess i will not get full effect on all panels at same time so guess i need to calculate in some extra panels..? 

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out every 'pre-order ships in xx days' I've encountered on Shoppee was some sort of scam.

Yes this happen quite often. I don't think it's a scam, I think it's the seller not buying stock until they receive an order.

[Pink7]

36 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Those batteries are indeed a find. Wish I needed them now...........

https://shopee.co.th/BYD-LiFePO4-แบตเตอรี่ลิเทียมฟอสเฟส-ยี่ห้อ-BYD-ขนาด-1P8S-24v-260Ah-เป็นโมดูลสำเร็จรูป-ใส่แต่-BMS-ใช้งานได้ทันที-i.35505682.6361658353

This look like in the range i have been looking for batteries. 2 of this in parallel would be a good start i guess.

[Muhendis]

4 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

I think im going to place my panels on both sides of my roof (North and south) from what i understand how the sun move here. My roof is 15 degree. So i guess i will not get full effect on all panels at same time so guess i need to calculate in some extra panels..? 

 

Pink

In the middle of winter the sun is 25 deg. south and in the middle of summer it's 15 deg. north. If you could change your angle to suit say twice annually that would be good but in reality an angle of 17 deg. south facing is good enough. That's what I have and my batteries are usually full by lunch time.

[Muhendis]

9 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

In the middle of winter the sun is 25 deg. south and in the middle of summer it's 15 deg. north. If you could change your angle to suit say twice annually that would be good but in reality an angle of 17 deg. south facing is good enough. That's what I have and my batteries are usually full by lunch time.

[Crossy]

57 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

I think im going to place my panels on both sides of my roof (North and south) from what i understand how the sun move here. My roof is 15 degree. So i guess i will not get full effect on all panels at same time so guess i need to calculate in some extra panels..? 

 

Make sure you put the panels that are in a similar orientation / shading on the same MPPT strings even if it makes the strings asymmetric. This is where multiple smaller inverters scores, more MPPT strings available.

 

You could factor in a few extra panels when putting the rails up, maybe only add the extras if it turns out you need them.

[Crossy]

@Muhendis Nice photo of a solar installation on a dull, wet, totally miserable looking day ???? 

 

Showing it like it really is!

 

[Muhendis]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

@Muhendis Nice photo of a solar installation on a dull, wet, totally miserable looking day ???? 

 

Showing it like it really is!

 

And charging too  ????

 

The combiner boxes are sheltering underneath the panels. One day I will do it properly.

 

Pink7 You have factored in the combiner boxes haven't you?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Muhendis said:

One day I will do it properly.

 

If it's not busted, don't fix it ???? 

[Pink7]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

My roof is exact north and south (0 degree) then House is in west side. so my garage roof not much sun after 1700 at this time. How this will be at other times of year im not sure yet, but looks quite ok now. Regarding under panels: i had plan to connect each side serial (2 ports on the inverter)

 

Pink

Edited June 5, 2021 by Pink7

[sezze]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Make sure you put the panels that are in a similar orientation / shading on the same MPPT strings even if it makes the strings asymmetric. This is where multiple smaller inverters scores, more MPPT strings available.

 

You could factor in a few extra panels when putting the rails up, maybe only add the extras if it turns out you need them.

I think that it isn't needed when you work in a parallel configuration , like he does . In the same string , serial , same angle , in parallel you can change angle ( like the 2 sides of roof ) .

[Tubulat]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out every 'pre-order ships in xx days' I've encountered on Shoppee was some sort of scam.

I order it directly from him, recently, this week I asking for a second set batteries and ask him for discount, because he don't have to pay shopee, but refused the discount.

[Pink7]

3 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Looks good, what solar panels you use? What type setup you have? And how much you produce?

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

59 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

Looks good, what solar panels you use? What type setup you have? And how much you produce?

The original installation came as a kit, which included the panels, from Foshan Tanfon. The panels were allegedly 200W but the rating plate worked them out at 178w.

I have no idea who made them but I did manage to get the broken ones replaced almost free of charge.

The setup has been through several iterations always with 800Ahr batteries and various 8kw inverters.

I have absolutely no Idea how much I produce but I have a woodworking shed with plenty of power tools and, being a farm, a small welder several water pumps and a house full of wife and mod. cons. All works well from 8kw and batteries are usually full by lunch time. I am connected to the grid after a seven year wait but only use grid power for my mean old rice mill. I have an ATS which I use for the occasional grid power connection.

I'm not too sure where it is but there should be a schematic of it somewhere on here. Probably in the "car port roof on a budget" thread by Crossy.

[Seeall]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:01 AM, Crossy said:

If you are never going to export no need to tell anyone (grid-tie without export might be a grey area mind).

 

Do you intend having enough solar to cover your entire energy requirements with just a grid backup for the darker days, or are you going to start small (ish) and use the solar to augment your grid usage (reduce your bill)?

 

How about your emergency supply, whole house or just essentials?

 

And of course what's the budget?

 

We are looking at using these https://www.sofarsolar.com/product-detail/562/HYD 5500-EP on-grid hybrids. Never export, excess power goes into the batteries and comes out when the sun is behind a cloud or at night. The inverter tries to keep grid consumption at zero. If the batteries are dead and it's night the energy just comes from the grid like a normal grid-tie system. Trouble is these inverters are not cheap.

 

trouble is more the batteries are not cheap and need replacing!

[Pink7]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

The original installation came as a kit, which included the panels, from Foshan Tanfon. The panels were allegedly 200W but the rating plate worked them out at 178w.

I have no idea who made them but I did manage to get the broken ones replaced almost free of charge.

The setup has been through several iterations always with 800Ahr batteries and various 8kw inverters.

I have absolutely no Idea how much I produce but I have a woodworking shed with plenty of power tools and, being a farm, a small welder several water pumps and a house full of wife and mod. cons. All works well from 8kw and batteries are usually full by lunch time. I am connected to the grid after a seven year wait but only use grid power for my mean old rice mill. I have an ATS which I use for the occasional grid power connection.

I'm not too sure where it is but there should be a schematic of it somewhere on here. Probably in the "car port roof on a budget" thread by Crossy.

various 8kw inverters... means they got issues or broken?

 

 

Pink

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, Seeall said:

trouble is more the batteries are not cheap and need replacing!

 

Nothing lasts forever, but treat your LiFePO4 batteries well and you should get approaching 5,000 cycles out of them, that's approaching 14 years.

 

By then the technology should have improved significantly, smaller, better, cheaper.

[Crossy]

9 hours ago, sezze said:

I think that it isn't needed when you work in a parallel configuration , like he does . In the same string , serial , same angle , in parallel you can change angle ( like the 2 sides of roof ) .

 

True, it depends on your inverter inputs. Ours are 12A 600V max which means one series string of 10A panels per MPPT.

[Muhendis]

7 hours ago, Pink7 said:

various 8kw inverters... means they got issues or broken?

Yes, they got issues and broken. The first inverter as part of the kit, was 8kw 96v low frequency with two inputs for the internal solar battery charger. There was just one combiner box which took all the PV strings to give a single output. Foshan assured me that the single output was ok to connect to the two inverter inputs. This, after some months, destroyed the charger which for which Foshan quickly sent repair parts and a second combiner box. All worked reasonably well except that the inverter was noisy, and my level of confidence in it was low. The reason for the noise was poor filtering of the sine wave and hence transformer rattling. Also the batteries as part of the kit were 10% lighter (less lead) than other manufacturers. Wish I had known all this prior to purchase.

Changed to 3 x 3kw 48v MPP high frequency inverters which were noisy and two were destroyed by lightning.

Replaced these with a Sweetpower 8kw inverter and two separate SRNE charge controllers. The inverter stopped after three years. Discontinued product so no spares.

Replaced the sine generator pcb assembly with a diy unit from China which actually now works better than the original but then I did a few of my own mods to it as I'm quite good at that sort of thing. I have a spare MPP inverter with working charge controller and a spare 96v Foshan inverter without a working charge controller. So if anyone wants...........

[Pink7]

2 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Yes, they got issues and broken. The first inverter as part of the kit, was 8kw 96v low frequency with two inputs for the internal solar battery charger. There was just one combiner box which took all the PV strings to give a single output. Foshan assured me that the single output was ok to connect to the two inverter inputs. This, after some months, destroyed the charger which for which Foshan quickly sent repair parts and a second combiner box. All worked reasonably well except that the inverter was noisy, and my level of confidence in it was low. The reason for the noise was poor filtering of the sine wave and hence transformer rattling. Also the batteries as part of the kit were 10% lighter (less lead) than other manufacturers. Wish I had known all this prior to purchase.

Changed to 3 x 3kw 48v MPP high frequency inverters which were noisy and two were destroyed by lightning.

Replaced these with a Sweetpower 8kw inverter and two separate SRNE charge controllers. The inverter stopped after three years. Discontinued product so no spares.

Replaced the sine generator pcb assembly with a diy unit from China which actually now works better than the original but then I did a few of my own mods to it as I'm quite good at that sort of thing. I have a spare MPP inverter with working charge controller and a spare 96v Foshan inverter without a working charge controller. So if anyone wants...........

You got lots of experiences then on inverters. What you would buy now if you was starting up now ( 8kv capacity)

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

That's a good question. Quite frankly I don't know the answer. The problem is, even knowing what to look for is no guarantee of getting a long lived, reliable product. For me the home built/cobbled together unit I am currently using is the best but that's really not a recommendation because to do it requires years of electronics knowhow. Getting a locally sourced unit may offer a reasonable level of backup but at a price. Purchasing from China will be far less expensive and the specs. are usually quite accurate however the Chinese have been known to cut corners in the quality department occasionally and if you want replacement parts under warranty that may be fine but you will need to pay postage and any applicable import fees. 

If I was starting up now I would take a long look at as many reviews as possible and let that influence my decision.

[Pink7]

14 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

That's a good question. Quite frankly I don't know the answer. The problem is, even knowing what to look for is no guarantee of getting a long lived, reliable product. For me the home built/cobbled together unit I am currently using is the best but that's really not a recommendation because to do it requires years of electronics knowhow. Getting a locally sourced unit may offer a reasonable level of backup but at a price. Purchasing from China will be far less expensive and the specs. are usually quite accurate however the Chinese have been known to cut corners in the quality department occasionally and if you want replacement parts under warranty that may be fine but you will need to pay postage and any applicable import fees. 

If I was starting up now I would take a long look at as many reviews as possible and let that influence my decision.

Yes im looking and searching around. I like MPP but its Thaiwan so maybe not easy to maintain if parts will broke under the way. A part of me like to support businesses here in Thailand, but generally i see low quality china imports who is over priced and no warranty to believe in. What is generally the weak part or the problem with the Hybrid inverters? 

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

26 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

Yes im looking and searching around. I like MPP but its Thaiwan so maybe not easy to maintain if parts will broke under the way. A part of me like to support businesses here in Thailand, but generally i see low quality china imports who is over priced and no warranty to believe in. What is generally the weak part or the problem with the Hybrid inverters? 

 

Pink

The MPP units have one main pcb with heat sinks and power devices on it. This pcb is available as a spare part and is obtainable from MPP. The top section of the box is the charge controller section which never gave me any problems but if the main pcb fails, as one did for me, battery charging stops. All eggs in one basket. Most manufacturers do it this way. My personal preference is to keep different functions in different boxes. Another weird feature is that the MPP units suck air out of the bottom (using concord engines by the noise they make). I would normally suck it out the top. The disclaimer is that I last used the MPP inverters over three years ago so my comments may not be applicable to todays models.

[Pink7]

31 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

The MPP units have one main pcb with heat sinks and power devices on it. This pcb is available as a spare part and is obtainable from MPP. The top section of the box is the charge controller section which never gave me any problems but if the main pcb fails, as one did for me, battery charging stops. All eggs in one basket. Most manufacturers do it this way. My personal preference is to keep different functions in different boxes. Another weird feature is that the MPP units suck air out of the bottom (using concord engines by the noise they make). I would normally suck it out the top. The disclaimer is that I last used the MPP inverters over three years ago so my comments may not be applicable to todays models.

I fully understand your belief in single components, im the same when it come to computers. I only want pc i built myself with components i know and i can easy change a single component if any issue. What i really like with all in one unit is the automation. That it will swap from solar to batteries when no power then to grid if no solar power or battery power. This can be done with single components too?

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

31 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

I fully understand your belief in single components, im the same when it come to computers. I only want pc i built myself with components i know and i can easy change a single component if any issue. What i really like with all in one unit is the automation. That it will swap from solar to batteries when no power then to grid if no solar power or battery power. This can be done with single components too?

 

Pink

Yes. You can use an ATS if you don't mind a second or so delay at switchover.

https://shopee.co.th/search?keyword=ats switch&trackingId=searchhint-1622961269-3f2a5f92-c691-11eb-9758-501d93e25e9f 

This device has a relay powered from the primary input. If you lose that then the relay drops off and connects a motor to the secondary input. The motor changes the MCB's over to the secondary supply.

The good news about swapping between battery and solar is that they seamlessly support each other. For example. If the solar is a bit low and you need more power, the batteries will supply it. If you don't have enough of either and the utility supply is also down, get the beer out of the fridge quick before it gets warm.

[Pink7]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

Yes. You can use an ATS if you don't mind a second or so delay at switchover.

https://shopee.co.th/search?keyword=ats switch&trackingId=searchhint-1622961269-3f2a5f92-c691-11eb-9758-501d93e25e9f 

This device has a relay powered from the primary input. If you lose that then the relay drops off and connects a motor to the secondary input. The motor changes the MCB's over to the secondary supply.

The good news about swapping between battery and solar is that they seamlessly support each other. For example. If the solar is a bit low and you need more power, the batteries will supply it. If you don't have enough of either and the utility supply is also down, get the beer out of the fridge quick before it gets warm.

Thanks, this is very interesting i need to research this.

 

Pink

[Pink7]

2 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Yes. You can use an ATS if you don't mind a second or so delay at switchover.

https://shopee.co.th/search?keyword=ats switch&trackingId=searchhint-1622961269-3f2a5f92-c691-11eb-9758-501d93e25e9f 

This device has a relay powered from the primary input. If you lose that then the relay drops off and connects a motor to the secondary input. The motor changes the MCB's over to the secondary supply.

The good news about swapping between battery and solar is that they seamlessly support each other. For example. If the solar is a bit low and you need more power, the batteries will supply it. If you don't have enough of either and the utility supply is also down, get the beer out of the fridge quick before it gets warm.

So the ATS works on 2 sources? If i want to use solar power from inverter( not inverter via battery) ?

 

Pink

Edited June 6, 2021 by Pink7

[Pink7]

 

[Muhendis]

2 hours ago, Pink7 said:

So the ATS works on 2 sources? If i want to use solar power from inverter( not inverter via battery) ?

Yes. It requires that you allocate which is the primary supply and which is the secondary supply. The only power consumer by it is that which is required for the relay which is minimal. It is connected to the ac from the inverter and the ac from the utility supply. output is whichever of them is selected. It is nothing more than a selectable dual MCB. It does have a manual switch which, would you believe, overrides the auto function. It's really very simple.

[Pink7]

38 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Yes. It requires that you allocate which is the primary supply and which is the secondary supply. The only power consumer by it is that which is required for the relay which is minimal. It is connected to the ac from the inverter and the ac from the utility supply. output is whichever of them is selected. It is nothing more than a selectable dual MCB. It does have a manual switch which, would you believe, overrides the auto function. It's really very simple.

How would that work with 3 sources? 2 steps and 2 x ATS?

 

Pink