Astra Zenenca Vs. Sinovac

[2009]

So, many of us are being offered vaccines now through ours workplaces, schools, universities and so on..

 

It seems that we are either being offered Astra Zenenca or Sinovac. Not that there is a choice, just that it is one or the other available.

 

I am just trying to weigh up the pros and cons.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

 

Pros of Astra Zenenca

 

1. Higher efficacy than Sinovac

 

Cons of Astra Zenenca

 

1. Higher adverse reactions and death from the vaccine itself compared to Sinovac.

 

*The pros and cons for Sinovac are obviously just the inverse of Astra Zenenca, so I won't do another table.*

 

Similaries Between the Two 

 

1. Both are effective at protecting against serious illness and death from covid (if or when you get it)

 

2. The odds of an adverse reaction and death from either vaccine is significantly less than serious illness and death from getting covid as an unvaccinated adult of any age. So it would be better to take the risk with the vaccine than the infection.

 

3. Both use the same technology regarding your DNA. It is the "old" technology. I know some people who are concerned about the new vaccine technology being used in Pfizer, for example.

 

Is there anything I am missing?

 

I know people don't trust the Chinese, but do we really believe they have put some kind of mind control device in there?? Come on.

 

For me, I think people are too concerned with efficacy. Do we really think we will never be infected with covid in our lifetime? 

 

It's like the flu. It will always be around and we will likely all end up getting it anyway. The flu vaccine hasn't irradicated the flu has it?

 

I think the point here is getting some antibodies so that when we inevitably get covid (like the flu) we don't suffer a severe illness and end up dying.

 

Yes, there will always be casualties with both the flu and covid - and there will be a new vaccine every year to try to minimise that.

 

I mean, if I had a choice, I would take Astra Zenenca. 

 

But would you refuse Sinovac if it was the only one offered (potentially this year)??

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by 2009

[gearbox]

This thread is going to have at least 100 posts ????

 

I was offered AZ but refused to take it,  the second shot is supposed to happen after 12-16 weeks and I probably would be outside Thailand around that time.

I would have taken Sinovac but they ran out of it in Samui.

[rabas]

2 hours ago, 2009 said:

3. Both use the same technology regarding your DNA. It is the "old" technology. I know some people who are concerned about the new vaccine technology being used in Pfizer, for example.

 

No. They use different technologies. AZ uses a small piece of DNA to cause your cells to manufacture SARS-2 spikes, you become immune to the spikes and to SARS-2. Sinovac is the old style dead virus vaccine, Wuhan strain. Think boiled in vats with added bats' blood. 

 

In this sense AZ is more like the mRNA viruses. I personally prefer mRNA vaccines.

 

The other issue is that you must wait a long time, 12+ weeks, for the second AZ shot, which may limit how fast you build immunity.

 

2 hours ago, 2009 said:

But would you refuse Sinovac if it was the only one offered (potentially this year)??

 

Facing a fast growing outbreak, I would not refuse Sinovac, but would assume I was less well protected against variants.

 

My view. You often hear claims all vaccines are great at preventing death, but they are not equal at preventing infection. At my age, I want to prevent getting COVID because of the high rate of long term problems. Up to 25% including young and mild cases, are now showing long COVID problems like brain fog and other cognitive issues. Even loss of smell is now thought to be from brain damage caused by inflammation. I really don't want to deal with all that in my last good years.

 

But then even Sinovac gives you some chance to avoid that, right?

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by rabas

[Dogmatix]

Because Sinovac refused to release data from stage 3 trials which were not published in peer reviewed respected journal, we don't know  what the efficacy is.  We just have disconnected, unverified findings from different countries using various methodologies. It has not been approved for emergency use by any Western countries that have rigorous standards and minimal corruption.  The WHO belatedly approved it because it was desperate for vaccines for its undersupplied COVAX schemes and falls over backwards to please China. Sinovac has mainly been used by poorer countries without stellar records on corruption.  Given all of this and the low production costs of old tech vaccines, the export prices have generally been rather elevated compared mRNA vaccines that had much higher development and production costs. 

 

Anecdotally the efficacy of Sinovac is probably only just above 50% against the early variants, as claimed by Brazil.  Therefore against the Delta, it is probably much less than that and there have been many breakthrough infections, hospitalisations and deaths amongst Indonesian medical staff fully vaccinated with Sinovac.  Perhaps around 30% efficacy would be a fair guess against the Delta.  At that level it may be dangerous for countries to continue using it, as it might create a super vaccine resistant variant.. 

[internationalism]

I don't think anybody has a choice. You have to take, what is offered.

If you refuse, you drop from the waiting line and have to enrol again in hope of getting your chosen one. You will always have 50% chance of getting it wrong again.

If you are working, have an active lifestyle, and you have medical conditions or over 60, get now whatever is possible. Later on you can try to change for the other brand, if the present one turns out not as expected.

My friend had sinovac and very serious side effects after the second shot, young female. For 30 days knocked her down from work. She had the best possible care, as she is medic herself and wealthy, but not diagnosis was given, despite many tests, brain scans etc.

[2009]

6 hours ago, internationalism said:

I don't think anybody has a choice. You have to take, what is offered.

If you refuse, you drop from the waiting line and have to enrol again in hope of getting your chosen one. You will always have 50% chance of getting it wrong again.

If you are working, have an active lifestyle, and you have medical conditions or over 60, get now whatever is possible. Later on you can try to change for the other brand, if the present one turns out not as expected.

My friend had sinovac and very serious side effects after the second shot, young female. For 30 days knocked her down from work. She had the best possible care, as she is medic herself and wealthy, but not diagnosis was given, despite many tests, brain scans etc.

So, what was wrong with her? What symptoms?

[internationalism]

24 minutes ago, 2009 said:

So, what was wrong with her? What symptoms?

serious neurological symptoms.

I copy from her correspondence, original spelling:

"I get second shot of vaccine and get quite bad side effects"

and after a week, when I asked about her health:

"I don't recommend u get sinovac since u have more choice n option to choose.

I got badly side effects from sinovac. I don't even know will I recovery. Just got mri brain scan + rehap still not much recovery".

She was bedridden for a week. For a month out from work. Still very erratic in her replies to me, I do suspect she is now well, but don't want to admit. I have asked her work colleagues, but they don't to write more, as they don't know me well.

Edited July 7, 2021 by internationalism

[Lorry]

8 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

e been many breakthrough infections, hospitalisations and deaths amongst Indonesian medical staff fully vaccinated with Sinovac. 

Thai medical staff,  too

[Oxx]

Surely it just comes down to which of the two richest families in Thailand you want to make wealthier.

[billsmart]

One other item, the second Sinovac shot is given about a month after the first. For AstraZeneca, the second shot isn't given until 3 months later.

So, although the data shows AstraZeneca has more efficacy, you get more protection sooner with Sinovac

I got my first shot of AstraZeneca on June 7. I was not given a choice. My second shot will be in September.

 

After that, towards the end of the year or the first of next year, I will probably get another vaccine, like Moderna.

[Muhendis]

Information regarding the Sinovac vaccine

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

 

How efficacious is the vaccine?

A large phase 3 trial in Brazil showed that two doses, administered at an interval of 14 days, had an efficacy of 51% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 100% against severe COVID-19, and 100% against hospitalization starting 14 days after receiving the second dose.

[tandor]

You are best advised to contact the manufacturers and get it direct.

[millymoopoo]

Sinovac efficacy is in question.!

Hundreds of vaccinated health workers in Indonesia and Chile are being infected with covid 19 and some are dying.

Both these countries (along with 31 others) use Sinovac primarily.

Some suggest Sinovac is better than nothing, these news articles would suggest it's about the same as nothing.

You be the judge.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwib8eaJs9LxAhVP4zgGHRVjBbUQFjAAegQIBBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Fasia-pacific%2Fhundreds-indonesian-doctors-contract-covid-19-despite-vaccination-dozens-2021-06-17%2F&usg=AOvVaw0x_6qgZom9siCqbR8ktmFu

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

One other item, the second Sinovac shot is given about a month after the first. For AstraZeneca, the second shot isn't given until 3 months later.

So, although the data shows AstraZeneca has more efficacy, you get more protection sooner with Sinovac

I got my first shot of AstraZeneca on June 7. I was not given a choice. My second shot will be in September.

 

After that, towards the end of the year or the first of next year, I will probably get another vaccine, like Moderna.

Seem that those including myself that got the 1st jab in June were given the 2nd jab in September. Not sure whether it is a supply or medical reason. My 1st jab on 29 June with 2nd jab on 21 September. What is your Sept appointment date. Like you, I am planning to take the Moderna as booster shot as when available. 

[dsj]

Another advantage of AZ is that it is accepted by more Countries, where Sinovac isn't. For example if you have two jabs of AZ then Canada accepts you as being fully vaccinated, where if you have 2 jabs of Sinovac, Canada won't recognize it.

[GreasyFingers]

Just now, dsj said:

Another advantage of AZ is that it is accepted by more Countries, where Sinovac isn't. For example if you have two jabs of AZ then Canada accepts you as being fully vaccinated, where if you have 2 jabs of Sinovac, Canada won't recognize it.

Similar to Australia but no matter how vaccinated you are you still have to do 2 weeks quarantine on entry.

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, millymoopoo said:

Sinovac efficacy is in question.!

Hundreds of vaccinated health workers in Indonesia and Chile are being infected with covid 19 and some are dying.

You don't need to go to Indonesia to find that out.  At least three hospitals here have been forced to close in recent days after infection of medical staff - staff who presumably have had Sinovac.

[findlay13]

3 hours ago, billsmart said:

One other item, the second Sinovac shot is given about a month after the first. For AstraZeneca, the second shot isn't given until 3 months later.

So, although the data shows AstraZeneca has more efficacy, you get more protection sooner with Sinovac

I got my first shot of AstraZeneca on June 7. I was not given a choice. My second shot will be in September.

 

After that, towards the end of the year or the first of next year, I will probably get another vaccine, like Moderna.

But after the first AZ shot the efficacy is supposedly 60%.My Second will be on the 27th July.We efficacy supposed;y going to the high 80s%. I will probably need a booster towards the end of the year.I will be looking for Pfizer I should imagine.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by findlay13

[jomtienisgood]

4 hours ago, billsmart said:

One other item, the second Sinovac shot is given about a month after the first. For AstraZeneca, the second shot isn't given until 3 months later.

So, although the data shows AstraZeneca has more efficacy, you get more protection sooner with Sinovac

I got my first shot of AstraZeneca on June 7. I was not given a choice. My second shot will be in September.

 

After that, towards the end of the year or the first of next year, I will probably get another vaccine, like Moderna.

3 Shots ????

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

You don't need to go to Indonesia to find that out.  At least three hospitals here have been forced to close in recent days after infection of medical staff - staff who presumably have had Sinovac.

" Presumably " is not scientific proof....

[jomtienisgood]

2 hours ago, dsj said:

Another advantage of AZ is that it is accepted by more Countries, where Sinovac isn't. For example if you have two jabs of AZ then Canada accepts you as being fully vaccinated, where if you have 2 jabs of Sinovac, Canada won't recognize it.

There are rumors the AZ manufactured in Th would no longer be recognized in Europe.... 

[MrJ2U]

Both garbage.

[MrJ2U]

14 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

" Presumably " is not scientific proof....

"Covid-19 Killed 26 Indonesian Doctors in June—at Least 10 Had Taken China’s Sinovac Vaccine"

WSJ

"China’s Sinovac Vaccine Under Scrutiny As Covid Soars In Highly Vaccinated Countries"

Robert Hart

Forbes Staff

Business

 

[Stevemercer]

I read that side-effects from SinoVac affected about 10% of those vaccinated, much higher than AZ.

 

The Thai press initially reported regularly on severe side effects from Sinovac and numbers were in the order of 10 %.

 

Then  the western press started reporting on fatalities from AZ and that was the big story.

 

Since then the media has been quiet on Sinovac.

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

I read that side-effects from SinoVac affected about 10% of those vaccinated, much higher than AZ.

 

The Thai press initially reported regularly on severe side effects from Sinovac and numbers were in the order of 10 %.

 

Then  the western press started reporting on fatalities from AZ and that was the big story.

 

Since then the media has been quiet on Sinovac.

 

Germany to donate all remaining AstraZeneca vaccines in Aug

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-donate-all-remaining-astrazeneca-vaccines-aug-2021-07-07/

 

Most Germans prefer the BioNTech(22UAy.DE)/Pfizer(PFE.N) vaccine due to concerns over the side effects and efficacy of AstraZeneca.

This week, Health Minister Jens Spahn announced that those people who had already received a single dose of AstraZeneca would receive an mRNA vaccine like those of BioNTech/Pfizer or Moderna for their second dose.

The AstraZeneca vaccine does not feature in Germany's purchasing plans for next year.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Tony125

[billsmart]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Seem that those including myself that got the 1st jab in June were given the 2nd jab in September. Not sure whether it is a supply or medical reason. My 1st jab on 29 June with 2nd jab on 21 September. What is your Sept appointment date. Like you, I am planning to take the Moderna as booster shot as when available. 

My first was 7 June and my 2nd is scheduled for 27 Sep. I don't know why you got your first shot after I did but are scheduled to get your first shot before I am. Was your vaccine AstraZeneca or Sinovac?

[billsmart]

3 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

3 Shots ????

Yes, I'll get these Thailand-provided 2 shots of AstraZeneca, but then after that, maybe sometime at the end of the year or the start of the next, whenever my local private hospital is selling vaccines shots, I'll probably get another one. Hopefully I can find someone dispensing Moderna, which is a two-shot vaccine, or Johnson & Johnson, a one-shot vaccine.

[KhaoNiaw]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

"Covid-19 Killed 26 Indonesian Doctors in June—at Least 10 Had Taken China’s Sinovac Vaccine"

WSJ

"China’s Sinovac Vaccine Under Scrutiny As Covid Soars In Highly Vaccinated Countries"

Robert Hart

Forbes Staff

Business

 

All the stories from Indonesia actually say that the number of deaths among medical personnel have been greatly reduced from earlier in the pandemic. Covid numbers also soaring in the UK, which is one of the most highly vaccinated countries and nothing to do with Sinovac.  

[Tony125]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Yes, I'll get these Thailand-provided 2 shots of AstraZeneca, but then after that, maybe sometime at the end of the year or the start of the next, whenever my local private hospital is selling vaccines shots, I'll probably get another one. Hopefully I can find someone dispensing Moderna, which is a two-shot vaccine, or Johnson & Johnson, a one-shot vaccine.

If you clik on the link I posted above or read what I quoted if you have recieved a shot of AZ you only need 1 shot of Pfizer . Can also use 1 shot of  Pfizer  as a booster for any 2 previous shots  you have had, that's why Thai Dr's ( and Malaysia) want to use 1 shot of Pfizer as a booster for all the Medical workers who have already had 2 shots of Sinovac. 

[JackGats]

I'd say the best vaccine right now is the one that's available.

 

I wouldn't be worried about getting one shot of vaccine A, then 4 (or 8, or 12) weeks later a shot of vaccine B. Logic suggests that mixing vaccines should work fine and there's evidence from the UK and Germany that it does. What I would worry about is getting some proof of my jabs, whether digital or on paper.