15 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

Well, good luck, things are about to change dramatically in the next few months.

I really doubt that, if that happens means vaccines are useless and we just have to accept living with the virus.

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Portugal was always deadly dull.

Vino Verde is nice, the beaches are nice, it's a bit cold in winter and absolutely nothing to do.

"dull .... absolutely nothing to do" : you are right somehow, although there would be a big difference between say the Algarve and Lisbon. But then, I could very well say the same about loads of places in Thailand!

Btw, I would not count hanging in bars surrounded by giggling girls as an exciting activity, passed the first 2 or 3 days for a newbie. I'm not saying that directed to you personally, just wondering how exciting life is in so many places in Thailand, in the long run.

1 minute ago, gejohesch said:

"dull .... absolutely nothing to do" : you are right somehow, although there would be a big difference between say the Algarve and Lisbon. But then, I could very well say the same about loads of places in Thailand!

Btw, I would not count hanging in bars surrounded by giggling girls as an exciting activity, passed the first 2 or 3 days for a newbie. I'm not saying that directed to you personally, just wondering how exciting life is in so many places in Thailand, in the long run.

Well 'exciting' is a relative term.

 

To some here 'exciting' means hookers agogo bars and the seedier side of life.

 

For most of us normal life is pretty much the same anywhere in the world.

 

You go to work, come home, go to dinner at a restaurant, a drink or two, at the weekend go hiking, sightseeing, see the kids and that's exciting enough for most of us.

 

Remove the sexpot locations from Thailand and that's pretty much normal 'exciting' life in Thailand, Portugal or anywhere.

I came to Thailand in 1990.  After reflecting on your question, I feel not much has changed in this time as it relates to the power structure (army, government and he that may not be mentioned) and it’s governance by this structure.  I am not saying I like it but it’s not a motivation for me to leave.  There will be the inevitable change in some of the players but it will just be ‘deja vu’ once again. It’s a system designed to enrich and empower a small elite that runs the country.  If this notion offends you … I think you will find much the same everywhere, albeit in a less naked display of corruption and power.  Finally, I am not sure what country you are from but things “back home” are not what they once were.  Every time I return to my home country (most recently July) I feel like more of a foreigner.  Most things have changed for the worse and generally seem to be moving in an extremely negative direction … starting with the destruction of freedoms and democracy.  Of course if you plan to leave Thailand and set up your own utopia on an island or off the grid you might be able to recreate the sensibilities you rightly long for.  Baring this, I would stay in Thailand as long as there are the good things you mention in your post.  It’s reliable and consistent and things are just going from bad to worse in Europe and North America.

31 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

I came to Thailand in 1990.  After reflecting on your question, I feel not much has changed in this time as it relates to the power structure (army, government and he that may not be mentioned) and it’s governance by this structure.  I am not saying I like it but it’s not a motivation for me to leave.  There will be the inevitable change in some of the players but it will just be ‘deja vu’ once again. It’s a system designed to enrich and empower a small elite that runs the country.  If this notion offends you … I think you will find much the same everywhere, albeit in a less naked display of corruption and power.  Finally, I am not sure what country you are from but things “back home” are not what they once were.  Every time I return to my home country (most recently July) I feel like more of a foreigner.  Most things have changed for the worse and generally seem to be moving in an extremely negative direction … starting with the destruction of freedoms and democracy.  Of course if you plan to leave Thailand and set up your own utopia on an island or off the grid you might be able to recreate the sensibilities you rightly long for.  Baring this, I would stay in Thailand as long as there are the good things you mention in your post.  It’s reliable and consistent and things are just going from bad to worse in Europe and North America.

Of course nothing stays the same, and if you have been away from your home country, things move on, thats life.

 

I would concur after living through several coups in Thailand, nothing changes, the faces maybe but fundamentally everything is the same. The electricity still goes off at the first crack of thunder, streets are clogged with the spaghetti of wires, education is abysmal , garbage everywhere the list goes on,

 

The tipping point comes I think for many of us around the 10 year mark, where you can't work, you're sat at home and the craziness of the place just sets in. After that its a downhill spiral until you cave and move.

Not saying that's for everyone, but for a section of the expats it's a pretty familiar pattern

On 7/31/2021 at 8:26 PM, Bassosa said:

Same situation here. Surprisingly, my GF was receptive to the idea of moving overseas, possibly to Europe where I'm from. She's totally over this "leadership".

 

I also told her that if Thailand starts restricting the internet, a la China, then I'm for sure leaving Thailand. That for me would be the bottom line.

My Thai wife is the same,she loves her country but is sick and tired of the corruption and and lack of leadership in moving Thailand forward. A lot of her friends have moved overseas with their partners and do not regret it one bit. They tell her the usualthings,things  are a bit more expensive,but the wages compensate for that. We are planning on  moving  back to my home country when the timing is right. 
But until then we are here and go with the flow,down hill at the moment. 
I have enjoyed my time here,but I am starting to miss my home country,my son,grandkids,riding my Harley along the beach roads and up in the mountains. Plus after 2 years my wife can get permanent residency and citizenship,something I cannot do here. 
 

On 8/1/2021 at 4:44 AM, kynikoi said:

In fairness maybe there is a weariness to the 90 day reports and non sensical chaos. Reentry permits, the legions of police we employ who are often looking for a back hander or simply to make our lives difficult. It's the exception rather than rule when you have a pain free experience with an immigration officer. I know I feel it.

 

If you're some upcountry geezer who's on his 15th extension and never left the country. Who's wife still slavishly bows and scrapes at your annual extension and brings gifts, who's never left the country or the province in that time maybe that's different.

 

What about that disaster of reporting your whereabouts upon your return home? That was only disbanded not because of any favor or humanity to us but imo it screwed up the data of people actually coming and going out of the country. The government was absolutely insistent upon it despite it being wholly broken on many levels.

 

How about paying taxes and getting nothing for it? Not even a modicum of thanks or respect. Personally, I'm in a very high tax bracket here. Not even a vip AZ vaccine.

 

The act of going to MTT by covid taxi to stand in the covid line to return in covid taxi is insensitive and a bit insane really. Ironically during lockdown. Double irony is when the hand is waived ...oh, too much covid we are closed. So... important when no covid, now not so much.

 

I love my wife dearly but if I'd not met her I'd possibly be in East Europe in summer and only here in the cool season Dec-Feb like the old days.

 

This place is done.

 

Want to travel outside? You'll be looking at paperwork, 25 thousand baht in covid tests, 1M insurance policy, reentry permit in/direct costs and ASQ for self and wife. That's gonna be forever. Covid like SARS before and MERS isn't vanishing off the planet. Worse, it's now institutionalized $$. There's policy and graft.

You're obviously not a student of history. There have been pandemics for millenia. They all come to an end, one way or another. That's a simple, indisputable fact borne out by history. Covid is not vanishing, correct, but like the other many coronaviruses circulating on the planet, it's potency will be reduced by vaccinations and (eventual) herd immunity and life will return to normal as we exist alongside it. In the same way we live alongside bubonic plague, a bacteria which caused the worst pandemic(s) ever known to mankind and killed hundreds of millions. Covid19 is a little different, being more severe (transmissible) than the recent others of 1918, 1957 & 1968 as it had had it's properties altered by gain of function research before it entered into the human population. So there's that. But, in a few years time, history tells us it will be nothing more than a distant memory. Just bide your time. 

On 7/31/2021 at 8:16 PM, wensiensheng said:

Normally I take sanity breaks during the course of the year which makes a big difference to the constant onslaught of stupidity that I see and hear in Thailand. That has been the toughest part of Covid for me personally. For over a year I haven’t set foot outside of Thailand and the frustration builds and builds.

 

 

funny thing though, so long as I get regular breaks from Thailand’s stupidity, I enjoy it here when I get back. But then the frustration slowly builds again 5555.

That above is me in a nutshell.

 

Even if I could just get to Cambodia or Vietnam for a change of environment and get away from the daftness for a week or two.

 

I normally do two or three UK trips a year, that keeps me sane!

8 hours ago, Anton9 said:

I really doubt that, if that happens means vaccines are useless and we just have to accept living with the virus.

Learning to live with the virus and not getting into sweat over the government is surely not difficult? Shortly I go for my first annual extension, not concerned one bit a day's work is all.

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

They may be paying $15 an hour, but things are getting so expensive in the US, it is to the point of stupid. Finding a decent apartment or house to rent? Stupid. Cost of labor to get anything done? Stupid. Medical care? Stupid. Groceries? I end up spending $250 to $300 for two or three bags of groceries every time I shop there. 

 

Did I mention the nearly militant attitude of the women? Or the general sense of joylessness? Stupid. 

 

Few want to admit it, but inflation is out of control in the US. Thanks. Not for me. Not for less than $1,000,000 a year. 

$15/hr starting, I'm sure my wife with her experience and work ethic will soon move up to more. K-12 ESL teaching, for which there is increasing demand, commands $60-70k. I'll also get a retirement plan, which I won't get here. We'll have the family home, so minimal housing costs. It's also the Midwest, far cheaper than other places in the US.

 

Yup, not arguing many of your other points. Getting work done on your house in the US is stupid. Scam artists and high costs. Amazing how it is here in Thailand. Family here knows some guy who'll send someone over to have it done well and cheap. Back in the States, I'll just have to do it myself. American women? Of course. That's why we find Thai ladies to import. Haha.

 

I really miss the roadtrips with grandparents when I was young. The parks, monuments, roadside motels. Looking forward to doing that again with the wife. Eh, America with all its faults is still packing them in for some reason. The Indians can't stop packing into Silicon Valley, making that place unlivable. Not because of the Indians themselves mind you, haha, but because they've driven up the housing costs. YouTube's been getting blasted with how-tos on how to get past the immigration interviews. Though their English is still lacking, as is that of the children they bring over, so more work for me.

 

Hey, not knocking Thailand or anyone who wants to stay. Again, I'd consider it myself if I was more up there in years, and already had a retirement plan or better source of income, but I don't. A better path toward that for me would be going back home.

1 hour ago, Inala said:

Covid is not vanishing, correct,

1 hour ago, Inala said:

You're obviously not a student of history. There have been pandemics for millenia. They all come to an end, one way or another. That's a simple, indisputable fact borne out by history. Covid is not vanishing, correct, but like the other many coronaviruses circulating on the planet, it's potency will be reduced by vaccinations and (eventual) herd immunity and life will return to normal as we exist alongside it. In the same way we live alongside bubonic plague, a bacteria which caused the worst pandemic(s) ever known to mankind and killed hundreds of millions. Covid19 is a little different, being more severe (transmissible) than the recent others of 1918, 1957 & 1968 as it had had it's properties altered by gain of function research before it entered into the human population. So there's that. But, in a few years time, history tells us it will be nothing more than a distant memory. Just bide your time. 

Actually I am a student of history. Like the other poster you agree with me but then ramble on and taking some moral high ground while not entirely disagreeing with my position.

 

I never stated that the virus is not expected to disapate in strength merely that it will be with us forever. In fact, it's not even an especially problematic virus for those under 35.

Those over 60 and with underlying condition imo can expect problems forever as typical annual flu alone kills millions. While the danger of harm and dying has been over exaggerated for months it is and will be quite dangerous to older people and those with cardio problems.

 

You also touch on the now known fact the virus was engineered which is also a huge unknown for this particular virus.

 

The vaccines are proving worthless. Israel is now triple vaxxing. 

 

Question isn't whether you'll get it bc you will. Question is how you'll suffer it and come out on the other side

Hear! Hear!

The things that you mention as issues have absolutely zero bearing on myself not my enjoyment of life so I find them very easy to ignore and just continue on with my happiness. 
For myself I see far too many positives in my residing here than any negatives I can think of. Are the problems you mention ideal? No, of course not. Would I like to see those issues change for the Thai people and the kingdom? Absolutely. Do they effect my life in any way? Sure, but no where near enough to have any bearing on my day to day enjoyment and fulfilment. 
Am I blissfully ignorant....? 

On 7/31/2021 at 7:49 PM, Pravda said:

I'm leaving with wife in less than 12 months as that's how long her pr will take, but we both know it's just going to be different BS back home. 

 

I don't really now why you care. The only people suffering here are poor thais. As for political nonsense didn't you think that things would eventually hit the fan? You say you have assets here? You'll get next to nothing now. 

I think you've got the bottom line for me. Back to USA doesn't offer me much even though I still own the home in Colorado that my daughter lives in alone. Canada is too cold and difficult to immigrate to right now. Mexico is a distinct possibility as I've spent months at a time there, I speak the language, and immigration is relatively easy. Other more distant possibilities are just too unknown to me and I don't want to spend the time and effort to learn the hidden issues that undoubtedly lurk in any foreign culture; there is no Shangri-la. The chances of bringing my mate to USA without a 2-3 year paper chase is another major barrier and moving somewhere without her is a non-starter. In short, at my age it's just a bridge too far.

 

For me the real point is that I'm grounded here, own a nice house, have a solid relationship with a Thai woman, and funding is not an issue.

Yes, the gov has failed its people and they are suffering greatly, and it can only get worse given the course the Khaki Klowns chose many months ago.

 

But how does that actually impact me and my daily life?

The practical answer is: very little. I can choose to let the emotion, anger fear, and frustration overwhelm my reason if I wish. These are not the psychological conditions that typically lead to good decisions.

 

I have not been vaccinated and understand that it's unlikely that I will have an opportunity to receive a useful vaccine for several more months, without monumental effort and increased frustration. In my estimation such supra - heroic efforts are mostly likely to simply increase the frustration and negative energy we're already subjected to. I know many made that effort and succeeded, and I applaud that, but it's not for me.

 

My decision, made two months ago, is to simply stay as isolated as possible, minimal trips out to the real world, full protection when we do, and minimizing the daily 'Doom scrolling' that renews the negative mental state.

 

We will hang out, enjoy each day as much as possible, and wait for an opportunity to get vaccinated when there is truly a large enough supply to prevent the experience from being a crushing ordeal.

 

I don't advocate anybody doing anything except what they themselves deem best.

Im just throwing in my two cents to the discussion.

On 7/31/2021 at 8:16 PM, rumak said:

I solved that problem by just not inviting them over for dinner anymore.   So there !

 

 

That's what I did but I admit I miss the Cuban cigars and excellent liquors they have access to; the scintillating company itself, not so much.

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

They may be paying $15 an hour, but things are getting so expensive in the US, it is to the point of stupid. Finding a decent apartment or house to rent? Stupid. Cost of labor to get anything done? Stupid. Medical care? Stupid. Groceries? I end up spending $250 to $300 for two or three bags of groceries every time I shop there. 

 

Did I mention the nearly militant attitude of the women? Or the general sense of joylessness? Stupid. 

 

Few want to admit it, but inflation is out of control in the US. Thanks. Not for me. Not for less than $1,000,000 a year. 

Terse and true Spider. Just not a viable option IMO.

13 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I think you've got the bottom line for me. Back to USA doesn't offer me much even though I still own the home in Colorado that my daughter lives in alone. Canada is too cold and difficult to immigrate to right now. Mexico is a distinct possibility as I've spent months at a time there, I speak the language, and immigration is relatively easy. Other more distant possibilities are just too unknown to me and I don't want to spend the time and effort to learn the hidden issues that undoubtedly lurk in any foreign culture; there is no Shangri-la. The chances of bringing my mate to USA without a 2-3 year paper chase is another major barrier and moving somewhere without her is a non-starter. In short, at my age it's just a bridge too far.

 

For me the real point is that I'm grounded here, own a nice house, have a solid relationship with a Thai woman, and funding is not an issue.

Yes, the gov has failed its people and they are suffering greatly, and it can only get worse given the course the Khaki Klowns chose many months ago.

 

But how does that actually impact me and my daily life?

The practical answer is: very little. I can choose to let the emotion, anger fear, and frustration overwhelm my reason if I wish. These are not the psychological conditions that typically lead to good decisions.

 

I have not been vaccinated and understand that it's unlikely that I will have an opportunity to receive a useful vaccine for several more months, without monumental effort and increased frustration. In my estimation such supra - heroic efforts are mostly likely to simply increase the frustration and negative energy we're already subjected to. I know many made that effort and succeeded, and I applaud that, but it's not for me.

 

My decision, made two months ago, is to simply stay as isolated as possible, minimal trips out to the real world, full protection when we do, and minimizing the daily 'Doom scrolling' that renews the negative mental state.

 

We will hang out, enjoy each day as much as possible, and wait for an opportunity to get vaccinated when there is truly a large enough supply to prevent the experience from being a crushing ordeal.

 

I don't advocate anybody doing anything except what they themselves deem best.

Im just throwing in my two cents to the discussion.

Well said...... best course of action IMO  for the group of us older longstays . 

One thing i never forget is how much better i like it here than the US. I am pretty sure if any leave they might certainly wonder in 6 months or so why the grass is turning brown

 

I will pass on the vax,  thanks .........  until they knock on my door .

Edited August 3, 20214 yr by rumak

Home is where the heart is ...

If you're not happy here , move on .

I certainly will when that Covid craze is gone . ( so , may be , never ...) , Still miss my beloved south of France ... ( not the Cote d' Azur ) .

Just don't want to be stuffed in a tin can with wings for the moment ...

 

Just now, nobodysfriend said:

Home is where the heart is ...

If you're not happy here , move on .

I certainly will when that Covid craze is gone . ( so , may be , never ...) , Still miss my beloved south of France ... ( not the Cote d' Azur ) .

Just don't want to be stuffed in a tin can with wings for the moment ...

 

South of France ?   hmmm   sounds good.     Surely you will have some room for me and mrs R  !

On 7/31/2021 at 10:17 PM, mfd101 said:

I understand what you say. But for me I could only return to Oz, which doesn't entice me, and there would be problems with b/f and his family here. We tried living in Oz together but it was too hard for him ...

 

So here we stay, fairly insulated in the provinces, leading our chosen lives (but without any travel). My b/f is resisting organizing us to get the jabs, but pressure from me is mounting ...

I am in Australia now, and it is such a stuff up, the polies are running around playing god, only 15% vaccinated .and I'm in NSW we are in lock down again 6weeks and the brains above say at lest another 4,Wouldn't mind but nothing comes out of it, NSW is getting over 200 gases of this Delta a day, me in my 60's am only in tilted to AZ  and and really do not want that,  now school kids all over are getting it so now yr 12 are going to get Pfizer so the can do there final exams. How are kids up there going has it got to them yet. So stay there I can't wait to come back again. 

3 minutes ago, rumak said:

South of France ?   hmmm   sounds good.     Surely you will have some room for me and mrs R  !

Nice one , what about this :

https://www.green-acres.fr/fr/properties/268a-ns2350-

xml.htm  ?

Or this ... https://www.green-acres.fr/fr/properties/68822a-32749.htm

 

 

On 8/1/2021 at 12:01 AM, spidermike007 said:

Neither of us see any hope for the future. This is not about Covid. Though the handling of it has sure been disillusioning. It is about the possibility of a future.

You think that is unique to Thailand?

I think the entire western civilisation is going barmy and will eventually get taken over by the new power in the world, simply because it's too rotten at the core to survive. What future for us then?

 

If I could have stayed in LOS I'd still be there and lovin' it.

If I hit a bad patch I'd only to remind myself of the alternative place of residence and I'd give myself a slap and tell myself to appreciate being somewhere I liked living.

On 7/31/2021 at 7:07 PM, spidermike007 said:

I thought that too until recently. Don't know how much longer I care to tolerate their nonsense. 

Why does any of their nonsense concern you?   

I don't care how many hisos get away with stuff, that doesn't affect me in the slightest.  I don't care what the so called Govt says or does, as none of it has affected me (I know that is a so far statement). 

Thailand is amazingly economical to live in compared to my home country and any other countries I've lived in.

There is a LOT I don't like, but I can't change or control those things so I just ignore them.

But I love living in Bangkok, I love how much more modern it's becoming each year.  

47 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I can choose to let the emotion, anger fear, and frustration overwhelm my reason if I wish. These are not the psychological conditions that typically lead to good decisions.

That's about the most sensible thing I've seen posted for a long time on any thread about Thailand.

1 minute ago, Freddy42OZ said:

Why does any of their nonsense concern you?   

I don't care how many hisos get away with stuff, that doesn't affect me in the slightest.  I don't care what the so called Govt says or does, as none of it has affected me (I know that is a so far statement). 

Thailand is amazingly economical to live in compared to my home country and any other countries I've lived in.

There is a LOT I don't like, but I can't change or control those things so I just ignore them.

But I love living in Bangkok, I love how much more modern it's becoming each year.  

Agree with first 4 sentences.

 

I never had a personal problem with the governments of Thailand, except the Thaksin one ( and his IMO stooges later ), but even with that one there was nothing I could do about it.

IMO the government only affects farangs if they choose to be affected by it.

On 8/1/2021 at 12:54 AM, Liebemein said:

Covid might be related. This situation is tearing people apart. Here people have no right to talk. People who are followers can live everywhere. 

That must be why I can live just about anywhere ????

 

However, I'd PREFER to live in LOS.

I certainly don't see any 'disdain or hatred' in spidermike007's opening statement here. It seems carefully considered, deeply felt and excellent reading.

 

I have spent 13 very happy years in Thailand. I consider myself very lucky that Lamphun and Chiang Mai were 'chosen for me' as my home (although I love Isaan and sundry other beautiful places).

I am also happy with the medical facilities here (BKK hospital in CM I think is superb - and I can still afford it!)

 

Spidermike, before I chose Thailand (about which I knew nothing) I paid a deposit on a new build apartment in Mijas in Andalucia. I love Spain very much and, especially if you choose southern Spain, you know that you will find marvellous weather, great food, beautiful villages and churches/cathedrals, a lovely family orientated people and great opportunities for walking and golf etc. Also very good football! Mijas in 2008 was fabulous for an apartment. But then the construction industry collapsed, I pulled out and researched on the Net. I'm very happy that I chose Thailand. Thailand and Andalucia are very similar, I feel.

 

Like many I am distressed by what is happening here. I would like to return to Europe, live in Spain and summer holiday in Switzerland, France or Italy.

I am not married now and live quite alone, but my 'ties' are my wonderful 7 year old Thai 'step-daughter', whom I have gladly supported for 6 years, my two wonderful dogs, and my beautiful home (which I had built 12 years ago) and large garden.

 

At 75 years old, I guess I'm too old to move now. Anyway, I would greatly miss the 'readily available opportunities for fun' in Thailand!

 

A caution (at least for me). Spanish property is now expensive, I think. You should learn as much Spanish as possible (I was taught it at school, thank God!). The best (and cheapest) Spanish life is often village life. The worst mistake I made in coming to Thailand was not studying the language first.

 

If you move, the very best of luck to you, sir! At times I will envy you!

Yes, contemplating it very seriously and my Thai wife and son agree it could be for the better. She is equally tired of life here and the usual lies coming from BKK.

After 20 years and my work permit will not be renewed at the end of this month, I may not have a choice and I do not have the 2-3 month deposit requirement to get a visa and if I do, no income coming in after I lose this job.

 

Covid is getting worse and mutating more than they tell us. May be a good idea to return back to God's country!

17 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

return back to God's country!

Please excuse my ignorance ... what country is that ?

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

Nice one , what about this :

https://www.green-acres.fr/fr/properties/268a-ns2350-

xml.htm  ?

Or this ... https://www.green-acres.fr/fr/properties/68822a-32749.htm

 

 

Good value for money it seems. Running costs would be sthg else.