“fahrenheit 9/11”

[thohts]

Has anyone seen this movie on the streets or know which vendor is going to have it?

Looking for the 'official release' copy, of course

[Spee]

Looking for the 'official release' copy, of course

The unofficial one is out, saw it on a sidewalk ... but geez, that guy Moore is a complete wacko nut-case.

[shopgurl]

Wacko nut-case but with a twist of gutsy genius you have to amit....I really thought "Bowling in Columbine" was a good documentary, it takes real cahoonas to take the opposition in such a way that Moore does. I say "finally"! Looking forward to watching F9/11 when I can get my hands on a copy.

[PvtDick]

One of the best things about Moore (and I'm a fan) is that he shows the strength of American freedoms. How many countries in the world would let a film like 9/11 be released, and not lock Moore up in some dark dungeon? A couple dozen, maybe. And Thailand definitely ain't one of them...

[thohts]

Regardless, this is one of those must-see films of the year. I doubt if it'll play here in Thailand anywhere (really.. the same movies play everywhere), so my next-best option is DVD.

At this point anything will beat "The Punisher" film I saw last night. Amazingly enough, a reviewer for The Nation gave it 4 stars and said that it would appeal more to women. (Besides being riddled with unlikelyhoods it was one of the most graphically violent films I've ever seen.) Obviously, the reviewer did not see the film but still wanted to write a review of it.

[Spee]

One of the best things about Moore (and I'm a fan) is that he shows the strength of American freedoms.

Yeah ... I agree ... you and the others are correct on the freedom aspect of it. I just don't happen to care for the guy's work.

Like the old saying goes .... "Everyone is entitled to their own wrong opinion!"

This is definitely a heckuva lot better that having one's opinion formed by a government and force fed under penalty of whatever, or not being allowed to have an opinion at all.

[possom]

"everyone is entitled to their own wrong opinion " including you !! all our opinions are wrong to somebody .

[Axel]

Somebody said it before in here, 'I came to Thailand to get rid of all politics'.

I am afraid, it is not so easy. In Thailand I have a main-choice of BBC and CNN on TV. Both news, IMHO, are somewhat biased. But than, I live in LOS, who the <deleted> is this Bush, they alway s talk about.

Ah yes, the guy they do show on Thai - TV, as well.

Until last year, I had no idea, who is this Moore-fellow, thanks to some info incl. lots of references in Thai Visa, I was guided to him. No idea if he is wrong or right, but give the man a chance, what he says might be contradictory, but than CNN and BBC are so as well, Thai TV, is for sure.

Check out everything and make up your own mind. But than, the way some people, incl. those living in LOS, are opposing him, Moore must have gotten something right. Hope to get this Fahrenheit thing in BKK.

[Nam Kao]

Latest from the US "Nader running will re-elect Bush"

[cathyy]

How many countries in the world would let a film like 9/11 be released, and not lock Moore up in some dark dungeon? A couple dozen, maybe. And Thailand definitely ain't one of them...

Well, they might not have locked him up, but the company that owned the film (Disney) refused to allow it to be released, saying it was "too political for an election year," which translates into, that it might affect the outcome of the election in a way to cause financial harm to the company (it might make Bush lose!). It wasn't until after the film won at Cannes that Miramax was able to buy out Disney's interest in the film and release it. And the Republicans are not happy about it. If it hadn't won at Cannes it might never have been seen in theaters at all.

I like Michael Moore, really I do. The trouble with him is that in his films he will take the hard, basic facts and then adds a small frosting of falsehood just to help make his point more strongly. The facts are enough. Sure it's artistic license, and it has the effect he intends. He doesn't change any of the hard facts, either, so you can believe what he documents. Maybe I'm just too picky.

[Lordfoul]

Regardless, this is one of those must-see films of the year. I doubt if it'll play here in Thailand anywhere (really.. the same movies play everywhere), so my next-best option is DVD.

It is slated to come out in Thailand on August 26th. Not sure if it will be a country wide release or just Bangkok.

/SM

[SoCal]

Nam Kao- You would think so wouldn't you, but your wrong. The polls show that Nader takes more votes from Bush than from Kerry when he is added to the mix. Don't ask me to explain, as I can't, but the numbers are the numbers. When given the choice of Kerry or Bush, I don't think most Americans know what to think.

Cathyy- Are you kidding me? You're a stickler, but it's okay to accept awards for a doccumetnary, when you, an admited fan, can even see the "falsehoods."

Please, buy it off the streets if you want to see it. Better yet, go to Amazon and get "Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid Whiteman" $16.07. Truth is that it is a bunch of lies on both sides(politics), but there's a lot more truth in the title of this book, than a Michael Moore film. FYI, haven't read it, but you got to admit it's a great title.

I am not a Republican, but have a lot of problems with the lies on both sides, especially those who put politics before the betterment of the country, when they purport the contrary. Michael Moore is a blow hard that cares more about himself, than the country he claims to fight for.

America, and as you like to blame everything on us, the world, looses the next election. Kerry is actually a worse alternative, and from where I sit that's hard to believe.

Either way, should be interesting, and sure the rest of you will continue to see us as some evil empire. Most of the world didn't like Clinton, until they got Bush. Lesson- watch what you ask for.

[Spee]

"everyone is entitled to their own wrong opinion " including you !!

well .....duh..... of course I was referring to myself .... a bit of tongue in cheek self deprecating humor as it were.....methinks you took it a bit too seriously .....

[chumao]

Just wondering if anyone with opinions for or against this man and movie

have actually seen the entire movie yet?

[Spee]

Just wondering if anyone with opinions for or against this man and movie

have actually seen the entire movie yet?

Saw quite enough with "Bowling for Columbine" thank you very much. Have also seen enough excerpts from the new one to tell me it is heading in the same direction.

With the first, for someone to exploit a tragedy caused by two screwed up teens from dysfunctional family backgrounds, and then try to turn it into an expose' of everything that he feels is "wrong" with America, that's enough to turn my stomach. There's better ways to get the same point across.

If he has a problem with the American way, and the freedoms that have allowed him to produce and show this kind of trash, and make him wealthy and famous from it at the same time, then he should try moving to some other place and try the same thing.

[ThaiPauly]

Regardless, this is one of those must-see films of the year. I doubt if it'll play here in Thailand anywhere (really.. the same movies play everywhere), so my next-best option is DVD.

At this point anything will beat "The Punisher" film I saw last night. Amazingly enough, a reviewer for The Nation gave it 4 stars and said that it would appeal more to women. (Besides being riddled with unlikelyhoods it was one of the most graphically violent films I've ever seen.) Obviously, the reviewer did not see the film but still wanted to write a review of it.

I enjoyed the Punisher. Same as Kill Bill but with a bloke instead of a gal.

Violence, I've seen a lot worse than the Punisher, try any Quentin Tarritino Film for starters,

then there is Mary Poppins

[possom]

spee ,i notice you dont quote my whole quote. all of OUR opinions are wrong to somebody . i did not take anything the wrong way ,i was trying to point out that there are many views on this forum ,and even if i dont agree with a point many will ,therefore it is always the wrong opinion to somebody .

[Dancali]

Moore says a lot of stuff and gets some things right and some things wrong. I agree with many of his anti-Bush sentiments, but he just throws so much bs out there that he is really a disgrace. He cannot be taken seriously by a discerning intellect, and worse, he creates a strawman for moderates and conservatives to attack liberal views.

Check out this New York Times article about Moore's ridiculous sentiments: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/26/opinion/26BROO.html

All Hail Moore

By DAVID BROOKS

n years past, American liberals have had to settle for intellectual and moral leadership from the likes of John Dewey, Reinhold Niebuhr and Martin Luther King Jr. But now, a grander beacon has appeared on the mountaintop, and from sea to shining sea, tens of thousands have joined in the adulation.

So it is worth taking a moment to study the metaphysics of Michael Moore. For Moore is not only a filmmaker; he is a man of ideas, and his work is based on an actual worldview.

Like Hemingway, Moore does his boldest thinking while abroad. For example, it was during an interview with the British paper The Mirror that Moore unfurled what is perhaps the central insight of his oeuvre, that Americans are kind of crappy.

"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet . . . in thrall to conniving, thieving smug [pieces of the human anatomy]," Moore intoned. "We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing."

It transpires that Europeans are quite excited to hear this supple description of the American mind. And Moore has been kind enough to crisscross the continent, speaking to packed lecture halls, explicating the general vapidity and crassness of his countrymen. "That's why we're smiling all the time," he told a rapturous throng in Munich. "You can see us coming down the street. You know, `Hey! Hi! How's it going?' We've got that big [expletive] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren't loaded down."

Naturally, the people from the continent that brought us Descartes, Kant and Goethe are fascinated by these insights. Moore's books have sold faster there than at home. No American intellectual is taken so seriously in Europe, save perhaps the great Chomsky.

Before a delighted Cambridge crowd, Moore reflected on the tragedy of human existence: "You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe." In Liverpool, he paused to contemplate the epicenters of evil in the modern world: "It's all part of the same ball of wax, right? The oil companies, Israel, Halliburton."

In the days after Sept. 11, while others were disoriented, Moore was able to see clearly: "We, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we had better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants."

This leads to Michael Moore's global plan of action. "Don't be like us," he told a crowd in Berlin. "You've got to stand up, right? You've got to be brave."

In an open letter to the German people in Die Zeit, Moore asked, "Should such an ignorant people lead the world?" Then he began to reflect on things economic. His central insight here is that the American economy, like its people, is pretty crappy, too: "Don't go the American way when it comes to economics, jobs and services for the poor and immigrants. It is the wrong way."

In an interview with a Japanese newspaper, Moore helped citizens of that country understand why the United States went to war in Iraq: "The motivation for war is simple. The U.S. government started the war with Iraq in order to make it easy for U.S. corporations to do business in other countries. They intend to use cheap labor in those countries, which will make Americans rich."

But venality doesn't come up when he writes about those who are killing Americans in Iraq: "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not `insurgents' or `terrorists' or `The Enemy.' They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow — and they will win." Until then, few social observers had made the connection between Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Paul Revere.

So we have our Sartre. And the liberal grandees Arthur Schlesinger, Ted Sorenson, Tom Harkin and Barbara Boxer flock to his openings. In Washington, a Senate vote was delayed because so many Democrats wanted to see his movie.

The standards of socially acceptable liberal opinion have shifted. We're a long way from John Dewey.

[stumonster]

he is getting a fair few viewers to his film.

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=up...egoryID=13&cs=1

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestne...index.php?id=32

I wish to see this movie also. I watched bowling for colombine and thought it was an interesting comment. I am not a great fan of micheal moore's inteview style..

[dfwbkk]

Saw a White House spokesperson on CNN last night proclaiming: No, we have NOT ordered a copy of Mr Moore's movie. Should we find time out of our hectic schedule we would be more prone to watch Shrek 2 or something equally entertaining... nevertheless, he's entitled to expressing his views".

Started showing last night in most places here in the US. Haven't been to a movie for quite some time, but this one I've gotta see...

Not being a citizen of this country (having lived here close to 5 yrs) I tend not to offer my views on how it "should" be run though...

/// DFW

[Johpa]

The standards of socially acceptable liberal opinion have shifted. We're a long way from John Dewey.

Alas, you are all too spot on with that statement. But Moore is not really a social critic. He is more of a shock-jock like Howard Stern who uses a different medium for getting in your face. I really enjoy his films, which I find very entertaining. I assume when watching his films that they have more in common with Christopher Guest's "mockumentaries' then with a PBS Frontline production, but Guest can get closer to our humanity with a fictional character with two left feet than does most of Hollywood.

Moore’s film's all have valid points worth pondering. His "Roger and Me" did expose the hypocrisy, if not the downright evil if you lived in Flint, Michigan, of the General Motors Corporation. “Bowling in Columbine” did deal with my fellow Ahmerican's crazed obsessions with firearms and fear that characterize NRA members, you know, the “guns don’t kill” crowd. And it would appear that “Fahrenheit 9/11” attacks George Bush for being an idiot, which this Yank agrees with 100%, and leading the US unilaterally into a poorly conceived war. His hyperbole and yes, his fictional license, do not really alter his underlying message. And his films do spark public debate on major issues, and that, as Martha Stewart would say, is a good thing

But there are far too few really good liberal social critics in the US with both feet on the ground like a Dewey, a man largely forgotten even in educational circles. Further out in the less defined regions there are the Noam Chomskys, but Noam isn’t quite a liberal. Heck, I am not sure what ideological planet Chomsky is on but clearly he suffers from way too much government and binding.

There was a British author who did predict the end of Liberalism in a situation that resembles the present; Huxley in “Brave New World” noted that “liberalism died with the first anthrax bomb.” George Bush and his America’s failure to deal with the terrorist threat may well end the liberal tradition and then may the gods help us all.

[dekestone]

Point about M. Moore made by a French writer in,I believe, Newsweek: Why do the Eurpoeans love Moore? Because he spouts all the stereotypes they hold about Americans, i.e., violent, gun crazy, stupid, etc. And he's fat and ugly, thereby reinforcing their stereotypes of how an American should look!

Having said that, I do find some of his work, movies and books, entertaining, even thought-provoking. But in the end he's a polemicist, not an objective documentarian. And he makes his millions by stirring up the sht and getting people emotional.

[Bob Chittie]

I checked with the local bootleg DVD people here and they have never heard of it. Has anyone really seen it on the streets of Thailand and what if this rumour of an August date with the theaters?

Even if you don't believe Moore, its worth seeing all the out takes of Bush that have never been shown by any other media before. Like when he's laughing and playing around like a little kid 30 minutes before addressing the nation regarding the beginning of a war.

[Butterfly]

Either way, should be interesting, and sure the rest of you will continue to see us as some evil empire. Most of the world didn't like Clinton, until they got Bush. Lesson- watch what you ask for.

Glad to see you are still that NeoCon facist American type.

<deleted> ? everybody in the world loved Clinton. OTH, everybody hates Bush apart from a few retarded bots who can't speak and spell right. That's ok, rednecks deserve rednecks.

Kerry is the man, and if you hate America, make sure you vote for Bush. Osama Bin Laden would if he could.

And I don't buy your BS about not "being a Republican". You are a NeoCon bot so don't pretend to be anything else. You lie and cheat as a living, that's your purpose.

Btw, I hope you will NOT dodge the draft, when it's up in 2005. That would make you a coward, and we all know how strongs your words were to defend Bush in his successful attempt to invade a foreign country without justification. Bad shit happen to bad people, and the Iraq war is a good reminder of this. The US is the ennemy, not the Iraqis.

[Bob Chittie]

Okay, we all know that this forum is full of different political views, but can someone just confirm or deny as to whether a copy of the movie is available in Thailand? When I talked to the bootleg people, they looked at me like I was an idiot for asking for a movie that had just come out in the US the same day....

[PvtDick]

We do not condone supporting illegal businesses -- such as those that produce bootleg CD's -- here. See it in the theater or wait until the legal DVD is released.

[Butterfly]

Just wondering if anyone with opinions for or against this man and movie

have actually seen the entire movie yet?

Saw quite enough with "Bowling for Columbine" thank you very much. Have also seen enough excerpts from the new one to tell me it is heading in the same direction.

With the first, for someone to exploit a tragedy caused by two screwed up teens from dysfunctional family backgrounds, and then try to turn it into an expose' of everything that he feels is "wrong" with America, that's enough to turn my stomach. There's better ways to get the same point across.

If he has a problem with the American way, and the freedoms that have allowed him to produce and show this kind of trash, and make him wealthy and famous from it at the same time, then he should try moving to some other place and try the same thing.

Sounds like you are the type who like to keep his head in the sand. Not really courageous or "american way"

Moore on the other hand seems to take a real stand instead of being a pussy whinning about what might be the truth.

Btw, your propaganda News provider, Faux News, gives it a positive review. Therefore, you might want to reconsider.

[Butterfly]

Latest from the US "Nader running will re-elect Bush"

yep, correct answer. All the NeoCons and right wing facist nuts are trying to push him for the ballot in swing states. They know very well that it will take votes away from Kerry. They don't even hide it. The evidence are all over the place.

But the good news is that more and more citizens are disgusted by Bush and his polarized views, and want him out, even if they don't like Kerry. The ones who don't want to vote for Kerry, will just not vote instead of voting for Bush.

Bush is the evil doer, and he needs to be destroyed like the sick puppy he is.

[Bob Chittie]

We do not condone supporting illegal businesses -- such as those that produce bootleg CD's -- here. See it in the theater or wait until the legal DVD is released.

Can anyone confirm that it will actually be shown in the theater here? If it will be in the near future, I will wait.

If not, I will do what I have to do even if that means, dare I say it, buying a bootleg copy.

Its similar to the rules on our friend Xanax Private Dick. You're supposed to go to the hospital and talk with a doctor, not pick them up at a local outlet becuase you decide they help to take the edge off. But at the end of the day, we can all make our own decisions.

[Butterfly]

Okay, we all know that this forum is full of different political views, but can someone just confirm or deny as to whether a copy of the movie is available in Thailand? When I talked to the bootleg people, they looked at me like I was an idiot for asking for a movie that had just come out in the US the same day....

It was very difficult to even find it on "bootleg" download sites. I think Moore didn't want any leak before the official release, so that his "conservative" friends don't burn theaters when it was showed.

The movie was the best selling box office ever in NY in a single day. Everything was sold out within a few hours and they have theaters with 24 hours run over the week-end and they were fully booked until Sunday.

A lot of positive reactions, and people angry at Bush when they get out of the theater. Even those who supported the war and were initially pro-Bush.

Moore show them in a mirror what the US has become: a Banana Republic for the oil cartels.