Thai Face

[sukanyacondo]

I am interested what "Thais" think about the "face" idea? For instance on one occasion when looking for a petrol sation I asked several people with my Thai wife alongside me "where is one" they all pointed and said "down the road and left". We followed the road on two occasions and nothing. Even my wife was baffled why they should do this?

So are there any Thais here that can explain to me because as a farang I see it all as just a waste fo time. I can see the idea is not to look foolish or maybe "all knowing" but after they have said this to me I then think how daft they are so this then defeats there face objective.

This is NOT a bash I am interested in "why"

If my wife thinks they are nuts then what do other Thais think?

I mean If I asked Thai " can you build me a 3 storey house in a week" would they all say yes not to lose face?? Where does reality set in for them ?

[Maestro]

In my opinion, sukanyacondo has got a completely wrong concept of “face” and his experience has got absolutely nothing to do with “face”.

--

Maestro

[sukanyacondo]

OK Please enlighten me as this is what I am asking.If I was asked where is the petrol station and i didnt know I would say so. Please explain thanks

[2long]

NO, sukanyacondo, is actually spot on. Saying "I don't know" loses them face as they appear to be inadequate in front of you, but creating a bullshit story and then you discovering that it was bullshit when they're not there is ok. They will tell you they'll be at a place (as arranged) at a certain time but not make it, because they don't like giving bad news. People n Bangkok have clocks and watches but can blame the traffic or whatever, people out of town don't worry about 'actual' time and don't need to blame anything.

It's all about face and my wife won't even ask for directions for one (or both0 of two reasons... asking means you don't know an dthe answser is often not true.

Face face face. Get used to it, be amazed by it and accept it. At the end of the day, us westerners are the same, but in a different way.

[sukanyacondo]

Hmmmmmmm but surely me asking for directions means I am losing face as "I dont know" Im not sure westerners are the same can you elaborate? If I cant do or dont know or am wrong I can admit it without a problem. Can or will most Thais ?or maybe my wife is an exception as I beginning to see in many other ways also.

[sukanyacondo]

My wife has no problems asking for directions maybe shes not the "norm".

I always expect the unexpected here just wondered how a "Thai" views it?

[2long]

As you've probably figured, I'm not Thai. However, there are some that can ask directions and some who don't worry about 'face.' When I said my wife won't ask, I mean that she makes me ask.

This face thing is not something that can be explained in words or understood in a few moments, or even months. It takes ages to figure them out, but at the same time one becomes more like them and less of a foreigner. These two things help to accept what you don't agree with (becoming Thai) and understanding them from experience.

Don't get me wrong. After the best part of eight years, I will never go a day without being amazed by them (usually on the roads or in the lifts) but I see myself understanding more as I change and see it so often.

On directions, just ask and take the answer with a pinch of salt.

On other things, just realise that you (we) can't and shouldn't change them.

Living here is great, frustrating, enlightening and crazy all at the same time.

[sukanyacondo]

Thanks yes i agree I have no way of or wanting to change them its NOT my country but must lead to a hel_l of a lot of rpoblems for them.

Any Thais care to comment tomorrow when you are all awake?

[2long]

Ha ha, awake. Thais? Not often.

Hello Alexth,, I see you there.

[Travel2003]

Find this in many countries.

Remember the first time I started to work with Philippinos.

Same same.

You ask, or tell them to do something, and they look at you and say Yes Cheap (Chief).

But if you look in their eyes, you will see they do not know what you actually just told them, or how to do it.

I noticed the exact thing here in Thailand.

Guess they just dont want to be embarressed and feel a but stupid for not knowing.

[chuchok]

It's "asian" face.Funnily enough, "face" issues happen...throughout Asia.

[Travel2003]

It's "asian" face.Funnily enough, "face" issues happen...throughout Asia.

Agree,

I have seen it in many countries in Asia.

[farang prince]

This just isn't limited to Asia. Who among us hasn't try to b.s. our way through an embarassing situation where we don't know the answer to a question? That isn't an Asian thing. That is a human being thing. Want to go someplace where "face" is probably more important than Thailand? Try France.

Edited May 31, 2007 by farang prince

[Heng]

Was going to say the same. In the west it's often called "not wanting to be embarrassed." Some will go to greater lengths and are more touchy about it then others, some less so, just like anywhere else in the world. Naturally there's an upside and downside about it, and it's understandable that many foreigners have an issue with it since they usually (not always) catch the sh*t end here, as with most things.

[blizzard]

if you want thais to respond, ask in a nice way. you make them sound like buffoons.

[vegas]

Riding on a motorbike with my missus in Kanchanaburi a few years ago, I pulled over next to a group of Thais to ask for directions. My missus and the group then had a ten minute conversation with arms gesticulating wildly, and all seemed to have a difference of opinion. I thought to myself that our destination must be a long way away. When they finally finished my missus said, "OK" and we rode off. I asked her where we were going and she said "I dunno".

What was the conversation about? To this day I have no idea. We found the place anyway all by ourselves. Gotta love Thailand.

[pampal]

Maybe the Thais giving directions were correct and the OP didn't go far enough down the road to find the petrol stations. The Thais never said how far down the road the stations are, they just said down the road and to the left.

Reason for Edit: Typo

Edited June 1, 2007 by pampal

[sgunn65]

WHen we applied for a settlement visa we spent some time preparing for the interview. A lot of this time was spent making sure my wife knew where I was born, what my first goldfish was called etc.

But the hardest part was getting her to say she didn't know if a question came up that she didn't understand. Even though there was a Thai interpretor there she was answering questions set by an English person with an English psyche. I had to drum into her the fact that saying I don't know was not only acceptable but would be loads better than lying.

As it turned out it was probably the time spent most wisely as there were a couple of questions that were so obscure (what is my bosses name!!!!!!!) she didn't know and was able to say she didn't know. This probably helped as much as the questions she did know.

Any of you reading this who are applying for visas I would recommend to do the same.

[sukanyacondo]

Blizzard is this comment for me ???

I dont go along with the asking in a nice way route this would make me Thai and Im not. I asked politely I have not made them sound like bufoons and it applied to the people I asked for directions not to every Thai in Thailand.

If someone doesnt know why bother saying they do? strikes me as nuts and a false reality and surely must cause them many problems? How would you ever get and answer to anything with this type of reasoning? "Hi what colour car would you like?" Green, Ok Ill order a red one for you ha ha ha I just wondered at what point they dont "lie"

Oh well I was just interested why someone would do this?

[prighas]

I am interested what "Thais" think about the "face" idea? For instance on one occasion when looking for a petrol sation I asked several people with my Thai wife alongside me "where is one" they all pointed and said "down the road and left". We followed the road on two occasions and nothing. Even my wife was baffled why they should do this?

So are there any Thais here that can explain to me because as a farang I see it all as just a waste fo time. I can see the idea is not to look foolish or maybe "all knowing" but after they have said this to me I then think how daft they are so this then defeats there face objective.

This is NOT a bash I am interested in "why"

If my wife thinks they are nuts then what do other Thais think?

I mean If I asked Thai " can you build me a 3 storey house in a week" would they all say yes not to lose face?? Where does reality set in for them ?

You are reading my mind. Thanks for the post. I experience this kind of thing everyday and I still can't seem to figure it out.

[prighas]

In my opinion, sukanyacondo has got a completely wrong concept of “face” and his experience has got absolutely nothing to do with “face”.

--

Maestro

Please enlighten us and tell me what has it got to do with?

[prighas]

Riding on a motorbike with my missus in Kanchanaburi a few years ago, I pulled over next to a group of Thais to ask for directions. My missus and the group then had a ten minute conversation with arms gesticulating wildly, and all seemed to have a difference of opinion. I thought to myself that our destination must be a long way away. When they finally finished my missus said, "OK" and we rode off. I asked her where we were going and she said "I dunno".

What was the conversation about? To this day I have no idea. We found the place anyway all by ourselves. Gotta love Thailand.

Again, this is very common and has happened to me numerous times. But there was once when I was quite upset about it. I had driven from Bangkok to Saraburi to attend this company field trip for all the employees. It was in one of the resorts somewhere towards the Pasak Jolasid Dam. It was about 7:00 pm and as soon as I noticed I could not figure out the name of the resort from the signs on the road, I pulled over and asked a security guard at one of those resorts. I showed him the business address of the restaurant in Thai and he pointed me 10 Kms down the road without making any turn - and so I did until I got deep down the jungle-long after an isolated tree tunnel. As soon as I was 15 kms down the road without any resort on either side of the road, I decided to go back and then called a Thai friend of mine who waited right by the side of the road. To my surprise, the resort was less than 1 km away from where I met the security guard. That had upset me quite a bit. Still, I don't think the security guard meant any harm and I don't blame him for it - which leads to the same question the original OP had posted - and which I can't really answer.

[blizzard]

dont know if this applies.

i go to subway sanwich at siam paragon and order deli style sandwich. they dont have any and instead of saying so the guy just picks another kind of bread and starts making a sandwich.

doesnt he lose more of his face by just ignoring what the customer orders and makes what he wants..................lol.

that guy sure look like an idiot to me, not that he cares any.................lol.

[sukanyacondo]

H ah ah no he's not an idiot beacsue he still make s a sale. Then again I would wait for him to make it and then say " I didnt ask for that bread" and refuse it just so that he "may" learnn a lesson?? Then again he'd probably do it every day for a year before he realised it wasnt going to work.

[blizzard]

he didnt make a sale. after i realized what he was doing i said to fougettabouitt.

i am not mtw like..................................lol. little humour if you followed adventures of mtw.

[0Mix1up]

A specific incident could be just a mistake.

On 1 occasion a Thai friend appeared unwilling to ask for directions, when I asked.

, another time when driving with another friend stopped and asked for directions twice, without me asking and we found the place easily.

Could be some people don't like to impose themselves on others/strangers in alot circumstances.

Not necessarily a Thai thing.

[zzdocxx]

This just isn't limited to Asia. Who among us hasn't try to b.s. our way through an embarassing situation where we don't know the answer to a question? That isn't an Asian thing. That is a human being thing. Want to go someplace where "face" is probably more important than Thailand? Try France.

Yes, me too, eg. if someone is speaking Spanish too fast for me to understand, I just keep nodding in the affirmative, with the hope that by the time they finished I will have picked up the gist of what they were saying. (This is not always successful.)

[lannarebirth]

dont know if this applies.

i go to subway sanwich at siam paragon and order deli style sandwich. they dont have any and instead of saying so the guy just picks another kind of bread and starts making a sandwich.

doesnt he lose more of his face by just ignoring what the customer orders and makes what he wants..................lol.

that guy sure look like an idiot to me, not that he cares any.................lol.

You can't mix face with money matters. Asians don't care how ridiculous they look, or how angry they get, in pursuit of your money. "face", is generallty abandoned, in my experience, when it cannot be used to gain advantage.

Edited June 3, 2007 by lannarebirth

[sukanyacondo]

Ill be a bit clearer and say that "I" did not ask for directions my Thai wife did so it was a Thai asking another Thai, no misunderstandings on what was said.

Asked 4 people one was correct and we drove passed the 2 nd person again .

[Travel2003]

I have lost count of all the times when the taxi driver does not know where he is, or how to get to the address I gave him.

He has his face up against the window, trying to navigate by reading the signs.

I can understand this, and especially if he came to Bangkok a few days ago, and not knowing his way around.

But never ever do they stop and ask other drivers for help/directions.

Never!