Thailand’s first COVID Delta Plus case not same as UK, 18 others found with Alpha Plus

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, TooMuchTime said:

This is how modern science and research works.

Major companies hire studies to be done on their product to provide professional data showing their product is good with a seal of approval.

Typically the research will not show anything majorly negative because then major companies will not want to hire those scientists/researchers.

 

Show a negative image to a company?  Get ready to be blacklisted and not receive funding from anyone.  Good bye career unless you can find any remaining funding sources.

 

Companies pay researchers to prove their product is good.  The conclusion is set, they just need to find a way to make it look legit.  Real research doesn't start with a conclusion.

This surely doesn't apply to all studies. Some, yes. Others, no.

[placnx]

3 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

This is how modern science and research works.

Major companies hire studies to be done on their product to provide professional data showing their product is good with a seal of approval.

Typically the research will not show anything majorly negative because then major companies will not want to hire those scientists/researchers.

 

Show a negative image to a company?  Get ready to be blacklisted and not receive funding from anyone.  Good bye career unless you can find any remaining funding sources.

 

Companies pay researchers to prove their product is good.  The conclusion is set, they just need to find a way to make it look legit.  Real research doesn't start with a conclusion.

In medical research in the West, what has happened sometimes is that results that do not support the favored conclusion of the sponsor may not be published. However, clinical trials are registered so it's hard to obfuscate poor results.

[Danderman123]

16 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

This is how modern science and research works.

Major companies hire studies to be done on their product to provide professional data showing their product is good with a seal of approval.

Typically the research will not show anything majorly negative because then major companies will not want to hire those scientists/researchers.

 

Show a negative image to a company?  Get ready to be blacklisted and not receive funding from anyone.  Good bye career unless you can find any remaining funding sources.

 

Companies pay researchers to prove their product is good.  The conclusion is set, they just need to find a way to make it look legit.  Real research doesn't start with a conclusion.

And yet, new drugs fail clinical trials all the time. 

 

I guess your internet friends didn't tell you that. 

[metisdead]

A post using an unapproved link has been removed:

 

15) Any links posted must lead to the website the link indicates. Links that are misleading or direct to a site different than the one indicated are not allowed. No shortened version urls or affiliate links permitted.

[Trujillo]

"You are missing the point: there are people reading this forum who aren’t getting the jab because they believe that Covid isn’t a big deal. Posts like yours only reinforce their crazy beliefs.

 

So how "big a deal" is it? 

If you just say, "People are dying of covid," that's not getting the discussion anywhere; people die of preventable injuries on motorbikes, or from the seasonal flu or everything else (I think it's just north of 1,500 people in Thailand die of something EVERY DAY). 

(By the way, do you honestly think people make real life decisions about what new injectable medicines to put or not put in their body by reading ThaiVisa?
"What about that new medicine that's come out?" "Oh, I get all my medical information from Asean Now forum board. I'll need to check there first.")

 

My opinion is that fully vaccinated people don’t have to live in fear, but should wear face masks where required."

 

For what purpose?  If you believe this, and I think you do, then EVERYONE who is vaccinated will be "required" to wear a mask forever. Covid isn't going anywhere. Vaccinated people will be around forever. So you are saying that a paper mask that doesn't even filter PM2.5 must be worn "where required" forever. 

 

At some point you have to live with reality. We know the risk groups for this (always have) and those who are not meaningful vectors and who are at ridiculously low risk of getting sick and even lower for dying. 

At my age, according to the CDC, I have a 98.9 percent of surviving IF I even get infected. I don't know how you access risk, but to most people -- and not talking about covid -- that is a very, very strong probability. 

If I said that this lottery ticket has a 98.9 percent of winning the six million baht jackpot, would you say, "Oh, no. I don't want to buy that; the risk of losing isn't worth it."? Nearly 99 percent success isn't good enough for you? 

 

If you are sitting outside, in the sun, all by yourself -- not another person within 30 meters or more of you -- and you are wearing a face covering (vaccinated or not), how is that different from the guy wearing a tin foil hat sitting on the bench 31 meters away from you? You are both protecting yourself and/or others from....(insert dangerous thing that is a big deal). 

 

Seriously, take a big step back and take a good, hard look. 

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Keesters said:

Could naturally produced antibodies be longer lasting or indeed more effective than vaccine induced ones? 

I have seen claims for both.. ie naturally produced ones last longer, and vaccine generated ones last longer. I will have a dose of both to be sure......

[metisdead]

A covid misinformation conspiracy post and the replies have been removed.

 

A post using an unapproved link and the replies have been removed.

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"You are missing the point: there are people reading this forum who aren’t getting the jab because they believe that Covid isn’t a big deal. Posts like yours only reinforce their crazy beliefs.

 

So how "big a deal" is it? 

If you just say, "People are dying of covid," that's not getting the discussion anywhere; people die of preventable injuries on motorbikes, or from the seasonal flu or everything else (I think it's just north of 1,500 people in Thailand die of something EVERY DAY). 

(By the way, do you honestly think people make real life decisions about what new injectable medicines to put or not put in their body by reading ThaiVisa?
"What about that new medicine that's come out?" "Oh, I get all my medical information from Asean Now forum board. I'll need to check there first.")

 

My opinion is that fully vaccinated people don’t have to live in fear, but should wear face masks where required."

 

For what purpose?  If you believe this, and I think you do, then EVERYONE who is vaccinated will be "required" to wear a mask forever. Covid isn't going anywhere. Vaccinated people will be around forever. So you are saying that a paper mask that doesn't even filter PM2.5 must be worn "where required" forever. 

 

At some point you have to live with reality. We know the risk groups for this (always have) and those who are not meaningful vectors and who are at ridiculously low risk of getting sick and even lower for dying. 

At my age, according to the CDC, I have a 98.9 percent of surviving IF I even get infected. I don't know how you access risk, but to most people -- and not talking about covid -- that is a very, very strong probability. 

If I said that this lottery ticket has a 98.9 percent of winning the six million baht jackpot, would you say, "Oh, no. I don't want to buy that; the risk of losing isn't worth it."? Nearly 99 percent success isn't good enough for you? 

 

If you are sitting outside, in the sun, all by yourself -- not another person within 30 meters or more of you -- and you are wearing a face covering (vaccinated or not), how is that different from the guy wearing a tin foil hat sitting on the bench 31 meters away from you? You are both protecting yourself and/or others from....(insert dangerous thing that is a big deal). 

 

Seriously, take a big step back and take a good, hard look. 

You clearly haven't thought this through. 

 

Let's say your 98.7 percent survival rate is accurate, then for a country with a population of 100 million, 1.3 million will die if the virus is unchecked. 

 

To stop the virus, people need to be vaccinated and to wear face masks where required. 

 

You may say you don't worry if 1.3 million die, as long as you are okay, but that's what GoFundMe is for, you can start working on your donations page now, before you get infected. 

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"You are missing the point: there are people reading this forum who aren’t getting the jab because they believe that Covid isn’t a big deal. Posts like yours only reinforce their crazy beliefs.

 

So how "big a deal" is it? 

If you just say, "People are dying of covid," that's not getting the discussion anywhere; people die of preventable injuries on motorbikes, or from the seasonal flu or everything else (I think it's just north of 1,500 people in Thailand die of something EVERY DAY). 

(By the way, do you honestly think people make real life decisions about what new injectable medicines to put or not put in their body by reading ThaiVisa?
"What about that new medicine that's come out?" "Oh, I get all my medical information from Asean Now forum board. I'll need to check there first.")

 

My opinion is that fully vaccinated people don’t have to live in fear, but should wear face masks where required."

 

For what purpose?  If you believe this, and I think you do, then EVERYONE who is vaccinated will be "required" to wear a mask forever. Covid isn't going anywhere. Vaccinated people will be around forever. So you are saying that a paper mask that doesn't even filter PM2.5 must be worn "where required" forever. 

 

At some point you have to live with reality. We know the risk groups for this (always have) and those who are not meaningful vectors and who are at ridiculously low risk of getting sick and even lower for dying. 

At my age, according to the CDC, I have a 98.9 percent of surviving IF I even get infected. I don't know how you access risk, but to most people -- and not talking about covid -- that is a very, very strong probability. 

If I said that this lottery ticket has a 98.9 percent of winning the six million baht jackpot, would you say, "Oh, no. I don't want to buy that; the risk of losing isn't worth it."? Nearly 99 percent success isn't good enough for you? 

 

If you are sitting outside, in the sun, all by yourself -- not another person within 30 meters or more of you -- and you are wearing a face covering (vaccinated or not), how is that different from the guy wearing a tin foil hat sitting on the bench 31 meters away from you? You are both protecting yourself and/or others from....(insert dangerous thing that is a big deal). 

 

Seriously, take a big step back and take a good, hard look. 

I wouldn't make life decisions based on a suspect statistic. Don't forget. Over 10MM have died so far and millions more were hospitalized. Not to forget long covid.

[Danderman123]

For the epidemic to go away, the R0 number has to be reduced to less than 1.

 

Vaccination, if sufficiently widespread, can help reduce the R0 number.

 

Wearing facemasks, where required, can help.

 

Conspiracy theories don’t help.

[freedomnow]

"Come for the somtum, take back Delta+ to your country of origin."

 

 

[placnx]

On 10/31/2021 at 2:14 PM, Trujillo said:

"You are missing the point: there are people reading this forum who aren’t getting the jab because they believe that Covid isn’t a big deal. Posts like yours only reinforce their crazy beliefs.

 

So how "big a deal" is it? 

If you just say, "People are dying of covid," that's not getting the discussion anywhere; people die of preventable injuries on motorbikes, or from the seasonal flu or everything else (I think it's just north of 1,500 people in Thailand die of something EVERY DAY). 

(By the way, do you honestly think people make real life decisions about what new injectable medicines to put or not put in their body by reading ThaiVisa?
"What about that new medicine that's come out?" "Oh, I get all my medical information from Asean Now forum board. I'll need to check there first.")

 

My opinion is that fully vaccinated people don’t have to live in fear, but should wear face masks where required."

 

For what purpose?  If you believe this, and I think you do, then EVERYONE who is vaccinated will be "required" to wear a mask forever. Covid isn't going anywhere. Vaccinated people will be around forever. So you are saying that a paper mask that doesn't even filter PM2.5 must be worn "where required" forever. 

 

At some point you have to live with reality. We know the risk groups for this (always have) and those who are not meaningful vectors and who are at ridiculously low risk of getting sick and even lower for dying. 

At my age, according to the CDC, I have a 98.9 percent of surviving IF I even get infected. I don't know how you access risk, but to most people -- and not talking about covid -- that is a very, very strong probability. 

If I said that this lottery ticket has a 98.9 percent of winning the six million baht jackpot, would you say, "Oh, no. I don't want to buy that; the risk of losing isn't worth it."? Nearly 99 percent success isn't good enough for you? 

 

If you are sitting outside, in the sun, all by yourself -- not another person within 30 meters or more of you -- and you are wearing a face covering (vaccinated or not), how is that different from the guy wearing a tin foil hat sitting on the bench 31 meters away from you? You are both protecting yourself and/or others from....(insert dangerous thing that is a big deal). 

 

Seriously, take a big step back and take a good, hard look. 

The requirement for everybody to wear a mask could be because people who refused vaccination might not wear a mask, either. How do we tell whether someone is unvaccinated and not wearing a mask? The practical solution is to require everyone to wear a mask.

[onthedarkside]

A series of off-topic posts related to scientific integrity and China have been removed. Also various other posts with unsourced or unsubstantiated information.

 

The topic of the thread here is -- Thailand’s first COVID Delta Plus case not same as UK, 18 others found with Alpha Plus