How on earth does Solana crypto coin have a 70bn valuation?

[Lemsta69]

57 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The person you are quoting is a troll. I suggest blocking trolls, as they are just a waste of time. No one could seriously not believe crypto is a scam, with, as you say, so much adoption, and the mayor of NY wanting paid in BTC.

I already blocked the trolls but I was really bored and drunk last night so I unhid the posts for a laugh. the sheer stupidity pushed my buttons hence the reactions. I've got a big ignore list, not many winners on this website and finding decent info is like mining Bitcoin with a CPU from the '80s ????

[lkn]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

No one could seriously not believe crypto is a scam, with, as you say, so much adoption

• The Albanian Civil War in 1997 was sparked by pyramid scheme failures […] Albanian citizens lost a total of $1.2 billion (more than half the GDP at the time).
• It is estimated that BitConnect Coin defrauded investors from the United States and abroad of over $2 billion.
• US prosecutors have alleged that OneCoin brought in approximately $4 billion worldwide.
• Bernard Madoff’s Ponzi scheme was worth about $64.8 billion.

And you think “so much adoption” is proof that it cannot be a scam? ????

 

The beauty of crypto is that unlike the above schemes, there are no central promoters, so in that sense, nobody is running a scam, but it is still people trading a worthless asset for higher and higher prices.

 

You keep telling us about all the people who are jumping on the crypto bandwagon, but I have repeatedly asked very simple questions about what problems are being solved and how value is being created, but proponents either ignore these questions, or accuse me of spreading FUD.

 

And when pointing out that blockchain doesn’t scale, the answer is “someone is working on something that will soon fix that”, but it has been more than a decade! I tried to engage one of the more knowledgeable proponents in a discussion about the price of running the network being more expensive than the value secured, and how L2 does not fix this problem, but crickets… and I didn’t even get to how users will (and are) gravitating toward centralized and custodial services to avoid this price, undermining the entire reason for blockchain.

 

Anyway, there is nothing new about people having invested money in a scheme, not being able to discuss the scheme rationally, but it still surprises me just how self-unaware some of you guys can be, and the amount of hatred launched at skeptics who do not buy into your vision of… well, what is actually the vision? That is another thing left unanswered, what is the long-term goal of all the bitcoins that Elon Musk and Michael Saylor is HODL’ing? Is this a Scrooge McDuck kind of thing?

[mjnaus]

11 hours ago, lkn said:

But with crypto, nobody is showing me what it can do, on the contrary, if I ask what problem it solves, or what new possibilities it enables, I either get vague statements about how it *will* (in the future) revolutionize all sorts of things, but devoid if any specifics (and ignoring that it is already more than 10 years old), or I get snarky responses like yours, about how we are just haters, and “enjoy staying poor” (as you replied to another comment).

 

You, and several others, have been given dozens of examples of how crypto and blockchain tech is used TODAY and of how it is solving problems TODAY.

 

You simply choose to discount, dismiss or ignore these. At this point, it is painstakingly obvious that you have dug yourself into your position of "all crypto is useless, a scam, etc" like an Alabama tick. Nothing any of us can say or do is going to change your mind. If the World Bank would tomorrow announce they have embraced crypto/blockchain, you would pull some mind-boggling mental gymnastics to somehow make that fit with your chosen narrative. 

 

You might as well just give it a rest. Granted, you're not as big a troll as GrandPa @GrandPapillon, but it's getting up there. This might be unintentional, or not. However, it would benefit everyone in these threads to be aware of the above. Including yourself. Asking people to continue to give you examples, etc is a waste of time, for everyone. Let's just all accept that there's always going to be people, such as yourself, who will continue beating the "crypto is useless/scam/<flavour-of-the-day>" drum while the rest of the world has simply moved on. 

 

Agree to disagree. I, for one, couldn't care less. I rest easy knowing I gave it my best ????

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by mjnaus

[lkn]

38 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

You, and several others, have been given dozens of examples of how crypto and blockchain tech is used TODAY and of how it is solving problems TODAY.

This is simply not true. The examples that have been given have either been wrong or vague. E.g. Ripple was brought up, I countered with an interview with Ripple CEO saying banks do not want blockchain because of privacy and scalability issues. Axie Infinity was brought up, and again, I countered with quotes from their CEO saying game logic was off-chain  and they actually ran their own “centralized” chain for their “marketplace”. You said some Korean bank was using blockchain, but the press release I found indicated something else, you said that was outdated, but didn’t link to better information, or could tell us what advantage they are actually obtaining from “using blockchain”, or how it actually worked (e.g. connecting to other banks).

 

You also gave a long list, but that was just things like “it will remove intermediaries”, etc. but again, not very concrete, and not something it currently does.

 

And then of course there have been businesses operating via tokens, e.g. the guy who had a prepaid VISA via crypto.com (that required holding $20k worth of their tokens) or was considering borrowing via Celsius Network (with 4x collateral), but those are central businesses, and honestly, these deals seems pretty bad, and would probably only appeal to people operating in a legal grey zone.

 

My questions are painfully simple: How is value being created? I have repeatedly explained this about stocks, for people who do not seem to know this basic thing, but with crypto it is just some holistic thing, not a simple P&L as with every other business on the Earth.

 

I have also asked, what business right now is losing customers to blockchain? This again should be simple, especially if it is this disruptive force, but no business is losing customers to crypto or blockchain. After ten years with the iPhone, or ten years with internet, or ten years with Uber, or ten years with AirBnB, or ten years with… for all these things, you can point to all the businesses that lost customers due to this new disruptive thing, with crypto, we the only thing we can point to are things within the crypto ecosystem.

 

I have then asked what problems it solves, ironically, I seem to be the only one who can answer this, as I have brought up regulatory arbitrage, that is a real problem for a few number of people, and blockchain actually does solve that! But for legit businesses, there is zero advantage of blockchain.

[mjnaus]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

This is simply not true. The examples that have been given have either been wrong or vague. E.g. Ripple was brought up, I countered with an interview with Ripple CEO saying banks do not want blockchain because of privacy and scalability issues. Axie Infinity was brought up, and again, I countered with quotes from their CEO saying game logic was off-chain  and they actually ran their own “centralized” chain for their “marketplace”. You said some Korean bank was using blockchain, but the press release I found indicated something else, you said that was outdated, but didn’t link to better information, or could tell us what advantage they are actually obtaining from “using blockchain”, or how it actually worked (e.g. connecting to other banks).

 

You also gave a long list, but that was just things like “it will remove intermediaries”, etc. but again, not very concrete, and not something it currently does.

 

And then of course there have been businesses operating via tokens, e.g. the guy who had a prepaid VISA via crypto.com (that required holding $20k worth of their tokens) or was considering borrowing via Celsius Network (with 4x collateral), but those are central businesses, and honestly, these deals seems pretty bad, and would probably only appeal to people operating in a legal grey zone.

 

My questions are painfully simple: How is value being created? I have repeatedly explained this about stocks, for people who do not seem to know this basic thing, but with crypto it is just some holistic thing, not a simple P&L as with every other business on the Earth.

 

I have also asked, what business right now is losing customers to blockchain? This again should be simple, especially if it is this disruptive force, but no business is losing customers to crypto or blockchain. After ten years with the iPhone, or ten years with internet, or ten years with Uber, or ten years with AirBnB, or ten years with… for all these things, you can point to all the businesses that lost customers due to this new disruptive thing, with crypto, we the only thing we can point to are things within the crypto ecosystem.

 

I have then asked what problems it solves, ironically, I seem to be the only one who can answer this, as I have brought up regulatory arbitrage, that is a real problem for a few number of people, and blockchain actually does solve that! But for legit businesses, there is zero advantage of blockchain.

Lol.... that just exactly proves my point. We can keep on going round in circles like this forever. As I said before; waste of time.

 

You do not see the value in crypto/blockchain. Great! Let's move on.,  

[lkn]

Just now, mjnaus said:

Lol.... that just exactly proves my point. We can keep on going round in circles like this forever. As I said before; waste of time.

Notice that whenever I reply, I always try to be specific, e.g. I list the answers I have received about “what uses blockchain” and how these were debunked, and 99% of the replies *I* get are “we already told you” or something to that tune.

 

So I repeat: No proponent can answer extremely basic questions like: How is value created?

 

Take that guy who told how I should have bought bitcoin when it was below $10k and I ask, and then do what with it (other then sell more expensive to another fool investor)? And he replies I am just a hater… just boggles the mind how proponents are unable to answer the most basic questions.

[mjnaus]

3 minutes ago, lkn said:

So I repeat: No proponent can answer extremely basic questions like: How is value created?

 

This was explained to you, in detail, at least twice. Very well articulated as I remember. But again, you simply ignored half of it, and dismissed the rest.

 

4 minutes ago, lkn said:

Notice that whenever I reply, I always try to be specific, e.g. I list the answers I have received about “what uses blockchain” and how these were debunked, and 99% of the replies *I* get are “we already told you” or something to that tune.

 

Lol, ok. You think you should get browny points for repeating people's posts and providing unsubstantiated dismissals? Sorry to burst your bubble there bud, but that's not how arguments are won. 

 

Again; we don't have to agree. You don't see the value in crypto, believe its existence isn't justified, etc. All good. Let's leave it at that and move on. Surely we can agree that this discussion is getting beyond pointless and has just turned into a waste of time.

[GrandPapillon]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The person you are quoting is a troll. I suggest blocking trolls, as they are just a waste of time. No one could seriously not believe crypto is a scam, with, as you say, so much adoption, and the mayor of NY wanting paid in BTC.

everyone is a troll when they disagree with you, what a nice line of defense to defect any argument ????

 

are you sure you are not part-timing as a mod here? ????

[lkn]

1 minute ago, mjnaus said:

This was explained to you, in detail, at least twice. Very well articulated as I remember. But again, you simply ignored half of it, and dismissed the rest.

Who explained in? In what thread? Honestly, I really don’t know what you are referring to here. Maybe you could link to the comment?

 

2 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

You think you should get browny points for repeating people's posts and providing unsubstantiated dismissals?

Unsubstantiated? Right, so when Ripple was brought up, I found interview with their CEO, when Axie Infinity was brought up, I found interview with their CEO, when Jim Cramer was brought up, I found video where he said crypto was a greater fools game, when you brought up that Korean company, I found their press release, etc. — you are the guys just making <deleted> up or taking things out of context, or buying the PR hype, not actually looking beneath the surface, I also linked to both MicroSoft and IBM abandoning their blockchain projects, but I guess that is also just “haters gonna be hating”…

 

5 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

Again; we don't have to agree. You don't see the value in crypto, believe its existence isn't justified, etc. All good. Let's leave it at that and move on. Surely we can agree that this discussion is getting beyond pointless and has just turned into a waste of time.

Ah! Now I get it, you don’t understand what my question about “value creation” means. You see, when I buy a share in a company, that company is supposed to transform labour and resources into products or services that can be sold for money. The profit is sales prices minus expenses, and that is the value that has been created, so this is not just some subjective thing, it is right there on the balance sheet.

 

That is the value I am asking about (when we sell coins to each other).

[GrandPapillon]

9 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

This was explained to you, in detail, at least twice. Very well articulated as I remember. But again, you simply ignored half of it, and dismissed the rest.

 

but it wasn't explained in detail, that's the problem.

 

Maybe that explanation would be ok for a 5 year old, but with anyone with an IQ above 50, it doesn't cut the mustard.

 

I am assuming your IQ is above 50, then it's puzzling how you and your likes can fall for those "explanations" which are nothing but "propaganda" based on "vaporware".

 

Maybe you are too young, and that explain why, and we "grandpas" can smell BS better and sooner than the younger clueless generation ????

Edited November 7, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, mjnaus said:

You, and several others, have been given dozens of examples of how crypto and blockchain tech is used TODAY and of how it is solving problems TODAY.

 

You simply choose to discount, dismiss or ignore these. At this point, it is painstakingly obvious that you have dug yourself into your position of "all crypto is useless, a scam, etc" like an Alabama tick. Nothing any of us can say or do is going to change your mind. If the World Bank would tomorrow announce they have embraced crypto/blockchain, you would pull some mind-boggling mental gymnastics to somehow make that fit with your chosen narrative. 

 

You might as well just give it a rest. Granted, you're not as big a troll as GrandPa @GrandPapillon, but it's getting up there. This might be unintentional, or not. However, it would benefit everyone in these threads to be aware of the above. Including yourself. Asking people to continue to give you examples, etc is a waste of time, for everyone. Let's just all accept that there's always going to be people, such as yourself, who will continue beating the "crypto is useless/scam/<flavour-of-the-day>" drum while the rest of the world has simply moved on. 

I think it comes down to argument standards, it seems that crypto enthusiasts are a bit "optimistic" about those overhyped technology tools and believe in fairy tales.

 

There is no such things as fairy tales in the real world, hence why we keep asking questions that can satisfy the test of reality, not dreams or projections or fairy tales.

 

and so far it has failed. Every whitepapers linked here, is a promotion, not a "use case", hence they are worthless.

 

At the end, cryptos is all empty "promotions" aka "vaporware" as we used to call it.

 

I worry that some poor souls believe in the propaganda and put all his money into those crypto "scams" ????

[mjnaus]

2 minutes ago, lkn said:

Ah! Now I get it, you don’t understand what my question about “value creation” means. You see, when I buy a share in a company, that company is supposed to transform labour and resources into products or services that can be sold for money. The profit is sales prices minus expenses, and that is the value that has been created, so this is not just some subjective thing, it is right there on the balance sheet.

 

Lol yeah, that must be it. I probably don't understand... nor does anybody else probably, except of course yourself ????

 

See, I could again try and explain how ETH is a productive asset, as well as a SoV asset. But we have been down that road, haven't we? So let's not bother and move on with our day. 

[mjnaus]

8 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

but it wasn't explained in detail, that's the problem.

 

Maybe that explanation would be ok for a 5 year old, but with anyone with an IQ above 50, it doesn't cut the mustard.

 

I am assuming your IQ is above 50, then it's puzzling how you and your likes can fall for those "explanations" which are nothing but "propaganda" based on "vaporware".

 

Maybe you are too young, and that explain why, and we "grandpas" can smell BS better and sooner than the younger clueless generation ????

Ah, there he is! Was already starting to miss your "contributions" to this thread. Started to worry you may had wandered out the gate, but happy to see you're back. Almost time for that afternoon nap, eh? 

[GrandPapillon]

as usual, you have nothing to say and will just personally attack your opponent instead ????

[GrandPapillon]

7 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

See, I could again try and explain how ETH is a productive asset, as well as a SoV asset. But we have been down that road, haven't we? So let's not bother and move on with our day. 

tbh, I don't think you could explain that, without bursting laughing on your own explanation ????

[GrandPapillon]

I think arguing about crypto "added value" with individuals who obviously do not have economic degrees, let alone a college degree, is indeed a waste of time ???? 

 

people love fairy tales, and obviously crypto enthusiasts have fell for the dream ????

 

they should get ready for a rude awakening ????

[mjnaus]

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

as usual, you have nothing to say and will just personally attack your opponent instead ????

Hey, I am not attacking anybody. I'd never.

I am just looking out for my pals. Wouldn't want you to miss that nap as it might impact your abilities to engage in these intellectually challenging back-and-forth's ????

 

I think we all stopped taking this serious, my friend. At this point, it's just silly banter. 

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, mjnaus said:

Hey, I am not attacking anybody. I'd never.

I am just looking out for my pals. Wouldn't want you to miss that nap as it might impact your abilities to engage in these intellectually challenging back-and-forth's ????

 

I think we all stopped taking this serious, my friend. At this point, it's just silly banter. 

indeed arguing with a 5 year old is always fun ????

 

above all when they think they have the upper hand in the argument and can't take no for an answer ????

[mjnaus]

13 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

indeed arguing with a 5 year old is always fun ????

 

It sure is, my friend ????

[Neeranam]

40 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

Again; we don't have to agree. You don't see the value in crypto, believe its existence isn't justified, etc. All good. Let's leave it at that and move on. Surely we can agree that this discussion is getting beyond pointless and has just turned into a waste of time.

Oh, he has to keep arguing to somehow justify that his decision to NOT buy crypto was correct, which of course it wasn't. 

I missed buying Amazon, Tesla, Microsoft, Apple but don't criticize or are jealous of those that caught that boat. 

 

[GrandPapillon]

5 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

It sure is, my friend ????

I think the disconnect is strong in you ????

[Neeranam]

54 minutes ago, lkn said:

Notice that whenever I reply, I always try to be specific, e.g. I list the answers I have received about “what uses blockchain” and how these were debunked, and 99% of the replies *I* get are “we already told you” or something to that tune.

Lol dude, there's a whole thread about Defi killing the traditional banking system.

 

There's a whole thread about bitcoin taking the gold market, as a store of value. 

 

There is a huge transfer of wealth coming from the boomers, of which I'd hazard a guess you are one. 

 

I really can't understand why you wouldn't invest at little of your portfolio in crypto. 

Let's say you just put in $1000 into DOT and SOL. I can guarantee you will double your money in a matter of weeks. Then, like Jim Cramer, just take out your initial investment and let it ride. 

I tried to tell people here to buy bitcoin when it was 80,000 baht, but was ridiculed, then again this year when BTC was 1 million baht. 

 

I can tell you how to open an account if you don't know how. Actually, you could do it on Paypal. Mass adoption is here and you know that well. 

[mjnaus]

1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

I think the disconnect is strong in you ????

It probably is ???? Don't give up on me though... 

[Stocky]

Why does any of this micky mouse money have any value?

[mjnaus]

13 minutes ago, Stocky said:

Why does any of this micky mouse money have any value?

I have a better question: how many chickens would it take to kill an elephant?

[fdsa]

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme that is widely known already, so holding BTC will not yield too much profits.

However Ethereum, Solana, Binance and some others are a whole platforms to easily create new Ponzi schemes - literally everybody could create their own "mickey mouse internet money" in a few hours (there are even "point and click" online services for dummies with no technical background) and lure new losers into the new Ponzi claiming huge profits in their new "AkitaShibuDogeBonkElonMuskNFT" token. So holding ETH,SOL,BSC,etc will definitely yield huge profits --- buy and hold these coins.

(a financial advice, do not do your own research)

[mjnaus]

27 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I really can't understand why you wouldn't invest at little of your portfolio in crypto. 

Let's say you just put in $1000 into DOT and SOL. I can guarantee you will double your money in a matter of weeks. Then, like Jim Cramer, just take out your initial investment and let it ride. 

I tried to tell people here to buy bitcoin when it was 80,000 baht, but was ridiculed, then again this year when BTC was 1 million baht. 

From my personal experience, I have found that most fanatical crypto opponents either have no money to invest or do have a position in crypto which they're keeping a secret. Or, final option, they don't invest because their hand puppet doesn't allow them to. 

[mjnaus]

1 minute ago, fdsa said:

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme that is widely known already, so holding BTC will not yield too much profits.

 

You mean widely known amongst a handful of dusty TV dwellers?

[lkn]

10 hours ago, mjnaus said:

You mean widely known amongst a handful of dusty TV dwellers?

Don’t know if this is a joke I do not get, but if not, CoinBase have about 68 million registered users! So crypto is definitely mainstream and well known among a large part of the population.

[lkn]

10 hours ago, mjnaus said:

From my personal experience, I have found that most fanatical crypto opponents either have no money to invest or do have a position in crypto which they're keeping a secret. Or, final option, they don't invest because their hand puppet doesn't allow them to. 

How on Earth do you know the wealth of crypto opponents? My background is in computer science which means a lot of my friends are also computer scientists, which is a pretty well paid field, and all of them think blockchain is stupid. Most of them though just ignore it. As I have said before, pretty much the entire field of actual computer science ignore it, I am only aware of a single University with a “blockchain research department”, and it’s just one guy and reason has to do with getting funding (so cue the buzzwords).

Edited November 7, 2021 by lkn