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I reside in Thailand, single, with '' Extension of stay based on  on Retirement”. Does this make me eligible to get a Thailand Tax Identification Number (TIN)  and thus, de able to do annual tax reports?

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The TIN is an number for information exchange between countries. For instance if you have revenues in a UK bank, the UK bank sends the data to Thailand using your Thai TIN (what Thailand does with the info is Thailand's business, at present Thailand can't probably be bothered).

 

I have shares yielding dividends in Thailand. I asked my broker if instead of "tax number of recipient = 00000000" my Thai TIN or some Thailand Taxpayer number couldn't appear on the slip. I got the usual irritating Thai answer, ie "no need to worry about that". That's one of the things that irk me most about Thailand: it's near to impossible to obtain paperwork to show back home to your home bank or taxman.

 

Note: I could get the (international) TIN no questions asked but as far as I know this doesn't mean I have or am entitled to a Thai taxpayer number.

Edited by JackGats
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On 11/25/2021 at 4:52 PM, Nik23 said:

I reside in Thailand, single, with '' Extension of stay based on  on Retirement”. Does this make me eligible to get a Thailand Tax Identification Number (TIN)  and thus, de able to do annual tax reports?

What annual tax reports might those be? Being on a retirement extension means you can't work in Thailand, thus you have no Thai income to report taxes on (except some piddly interest on your savings account, which, yes, a Thai tax ID would allow for its refund, without needing to do an annual tax report). Certainly you're not thinking about declaring your foreign income to Thai tax authorities -- they don't care (as of now) and consider all monies from foreigners brought into the country as fungible money earned in prior years, and thus not subject to Thai taxes. [However, if you're Norwegian, different rules apply, favoring declaring Norwegian earnings to Thai authorities,  But, unless you fit that bill, I won't elaborate.]

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19 minutes ago, YT3k72Em said:

There is no International TIN.  There is just one Thai tax number. 

 

Go to your local tax office with your passport and ask for one. You will be issued one and then can submit Thai tax returns if you want to.

The one I got is a 13-digit TIN for the CRS and FACTA. The Thai give you one if you tell them your overseas bank require one. At least that was what I was told to tell as a reason for asking for one and it worked. If you tell them you need one to pay tax in Thailand they might tell you "you don't have to pay tax in Thailand".

 

When I filled in the W-8BEN form for my EU broker in order to get the 15% rebate on US withholding tax, I needed to write down this my "Thai TIN". If it also serves as Thai national tax number, so much the better because it is a simplification compared to many countries where the national tax number often differs slightly (typically including some additional digits).

 

I will broach the subject again with my Bualuang man. It is dumb to be paying withholding tax in Thailand and not have that linked to my tax number.

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2 hours ago, JimGant said:

What annual tax reports might those be? Being on a retirement extension means you can't work in Thailand, thus you have no Thai income to report taxes on (except some piddly interest on your savings account, which, yes, a Thai tax ID would allow for its refund, without needing to do an annual tax report). Certainly you're not thinking about declaring your foreign income to Thai tax authorities -- they don't care (as of now) and consider all monies from foreigners brought into the country as fungible money earned in prior years, and thus not subject to Thai taxes. [However, if you're Norwegian, different rules apply, favoring declaring Norwegian earnings to Thai authorities,  But, unless you fit that bill, I won't elaborate.]

No, i am not Norwegian. Thank you very much for your info.The thing is this: I dont want to declare anything, but it seems to me that i fall between the cracks. I am here about 10 years straight and i am doing tax reports back to my country as if i was leaving there!lol *In many cases i did things as if i was in the country!The law says if you stay more than 180 days in a country you are a resident there, thus, you have to change tax residency.So in the remote case that my country says to me, you dont live here anymore , you must change your  tax residency, i wanted to know if i can do tax reports in thailand.

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17 hours ago, JimGant said:

What annual tax reports might those be? Being on a retirement extension means you can't work in Thailand, thus you have no Thai income to report taxes on (except some piddly interest on your savings account, which, yes, a Thai tax ID would allow for its refund, without needing to do an annual tax report). Certainly you're not thinking about declaring your foreign income to Thai tax authorities -- they don't care (as of now) and consider all monies from foreigners brought into the country as fungible money earned in prior years, and thus not subject to Thai taxes. [However, if you're Norwegian, different rules apply, favoring declaring Norwegian earnings to Thai authorities,  But, unless you fit that bill, I won't elaborate.]

Overseas income (which include many forms of tax deferred pensions) remitted into the kingdom in the year received are taxable earnings. 

Thailand currently makes no effort to collect this revenue, and in fact lacks the ability to determine what is income and what is savings (hence non taxable) but that is the legal case. 

This idea that farangs have that live here over 180 days a year that everything is tax free is not correct. Investment income, capital gains, rental incomes, etc etc are all taxable if brought here in the year earned, and thats passive income. Active income is all the stuff someone might do which falls into the work permit and day 1 taxable situations. 

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23 hours ago, JimGant said:

What annual tax reports might those be? Being on a retirement extension means you can't work in Thailand, thus you have no Thai income to report taxes on (except some piddly interest on your savings account, which, yes, a Thai tax ID would allow for its refund, without needing to do an annual tax report). Certainly you're not thinking about declaring your foreign income to Thai tax authorities -- they don't care (as of now) and consider all monies from foreigners brought into the country as fungible money earned in prior years, and thus not subject to Thai taxes. [However, if you're Norwegian, different rules apply, favoring declaring Norwegian earnings to Thai authorities,  But, unless you fit that bill, I won't elaborate.]

While you may have no income, if you pay import duty fees and associated VAT (ie., you import a foreign auto part), you should be able to file a tax return for a tax  refund AS YOU HAVE NO OFFSETTING INCOME.

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6 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

This idea that farangs have that live here over 180 days a year that everything is tax free is not correct. Investment income, capital gains, rental incomes, etc etc are all taxable if brought here in the year earned, and thats passive income. Active income is all the stuff someone might do which falls into the work permit and day 1 taxable situations. 

Depends on the terms of the double taxation agreement between your home country and Thailand (if one exists).

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21 hours ago, Nik23 said:

The law says if you stay more than 180 days in a country you are a resident there, thus, you have to change tax residency.So in the remote case that my country says to me, you dont live here anymore , you must change your  tax residency, i wanted to know if i can do tax reports in thailand.

Ummmm. Not quite.

Any number of days does not make you resident. That's why, here for example, there are 473 different visas and to get one of them often involves jumping through many hoops.

Otherwise we would all just stay 180 days and be resident.

 

Your country is NOT going to chase you down and say we dont want your taxes any more, give them to some other country.

 

Getting a TIN seems to differ depending where you live. In my case it was passport, plus Cert of Residence from Immigration. Nothing too difficult.

Actually filing a tax return was a different story. An unsuccessful one.

 

Important point. Having a Thai TIN does NOT make you tax resident in Thailand. The TIN is just an admin thing, albeit one that can be very useful, and possibly negate your need for tax residency here.

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Yes, you are eligible to get a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN).  In my experience the Thai Revenue Department is quite friendly and willing to help foreigners.  Although not many staff speak English well you will find someone there to help.

If you have a Thai bank account of any sort on which you earn interest and do not have a Thai TIN it is likely that 15% of that interest is being withheld for tax purposes.  In my opinion the easiest way to get a Thai Tax ID is to wait until the new year and visit your bank with your account passbooks.  Ask the cashier for tax withholding documents for each bank account that had interest withheld.  If they don't understand you can try: เอกสารภาษีหัก ณ ที่จ่าย or aow aik-ga-san hak pa-see nee tee-jai.  If you are still struggling to be understood, just open your passbook and point to an entry that shows tax being withheld and the penny should drop.  Many people will be doing the same thing, asking for their tax withholding documents.

With these tax withholding documents visit your local Thai Revenue Department (if it's the wrong one they will set you right).  Ask to get a Thai Tax ID or alternatively, หมายเลขประจำตัวผู้เสียภาษี aow mai-lek pra-jam tua-pu-sia pa-see.  They should get what you are trying to do when they see the tax withholding documents.  They will help you with your request and most likely issue you a Thai Tax ID (TIN) on the spot.  Try to get an actual Thai Tax ID card (printed on paper about the size of a credit card because this will prove valuable later when trying to get your refund), rather than just being told the number.

They will often help you fill out, or more accurately fill out themselves, a Thai Personal Income Tax Return so that you can get your interest withheld back (assuming you are under the income threshold which many in the OP's situation will be).  Sign and submit the return and in a few weeks time you will receive by mail a notice of how to get your tax refund.  Getting your tax refund will often involve taking the letter you receive to a branch of Krung Thai bank (and only this bank).  The entire process at Krung Thai Bank is explained very well here:

https://www.nationthailand.com/noname/30370085

You don't have to wait for the new year to get your Thai Tax ID Number.  You can go now.  It might be a little harder to explain what you want without the Tax Withholding documents from your bank but you can still ask for a Thai Tax ID Number as explained above.

By the way, keep everything.  You use your Thai Tax ID Number card year after year.  Keep your Krung Thai bank e-money card, it's reusable.  Keep a copy of your Thai Personal Income Tax Return (as you'll fill one out the next year just changing the amounts withheld).  You can basically do everything yourself the next year.  The first year is some work.  It's much easier in subsequent years.

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On 11/25/2021 at 10:52 AM, Nik23 said:

I reside in Thailand, single, with '' Extension of stay based on  on Retirement”. Does this make me eligible to get a Thailand Tax Identification Number (TIN)  and thus, de able to do annual tax reports?

In some areas it might be difficult get a TIN when one is retired - it was for me, took great efforts and three visits to the revenue department to get it - since I got mine I'm also having an annual Tex Return Form send to be filled and given in before end of March.

 

To make me enabled for a TIN, I needed to have some taxable income in Thailand. You have to check with your home country's double taxation agreement with Thailand, if you might have some taxable income here, when transferring money into Thailand. In my case I needed not only a TIN, but also my annual tax return forms, to be eligible for tax deductions in my home country, when I'm tax payer in Thailand.

 

In principle you are tax resident in a country if you stay there more than 180 days within a tax year (calendar year). However, according to news articles published in ASEAN NOW, only about 6 percent of the Thai population are registered as income tax payer, and only around 4 percent pays income tax, so income tax don't seem to be a huge burden for the locals...🙂

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48 minutes ago, hansnl said:

My Thailand tax is filed every year with my Thai ID number.

No need to apply for a TIN.

TIN and ID-number is the same number...🙂

Edited by khunPer
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On 11/25/2021 at 11:30 AM, JackGats said:

I have shares yielding dividends in Thailand. I asked my broker if instead of "tax number of recipient = 00000000" my Thai TIN or some Thailand Taxpayer number couldn't appear on the slip. I got the usual irritating Thai answer, ie "no need to worry about that". That's one of the things that irk me most about Thailand: it's near to impossible to obtain paperwork to show back home to your home bank or taxman.

Dividends are withheld 10 percent tax, if you accept that tax, you don't need to do any further. As foreigner you passport number will be used for eventual identification. Capital gains from SET-listed stocks are free from taxation...🙂

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Oh, also, now that you have a Thai Tax ID number go to your Thai banks and get that Thai Tax ID number added to your accounts (some banks can just add it to the account, some will close the current passbook and have to open a new passbook).  The reason to do this is that if you have a regular savings account (not fixed deposit account) interest will not be withheld on this account from the first baht of interest earned IF you have a valid Thai Tax ID number associated with the account.  In that case they will only start withholding the 15% on your interest earned when you exceed 20,000 baht.  Your interest earned is likely to be much less than this and by doing this (adding your Thai TIN to your account) you can entirely avoid tax withholding on interest earned and not have to file a Thai Income Tax Return to get your interest withheld back, because it won't be withheld in the first place.

If you have a fixed deposit account then they will withhold interest on that account and you will have to file a Thai Personal Income Tax Return to get the interest withheld back.  This is, in my opinion, a good reason to not use fixed deposit accounts and put your money for immigration (800k/400k baht) into an account like Krungsri Bank's Mee Tae Dai account which is a regular savings account earning about 1.0% APR interest, earned daily, paid monthly.  I've used this account to get my retirement extension for years at Phuket Immigration.  The account is a savings account, the principle is not at risk, and you can withdraw money from the account at any time with the only penalty being that you will (obviously) stop receiving interest on the money you have withdrawn.  You are also limited to two (2) free withdrawals per month from the account, thereafter you are charged a 50 baht fee/withdrawal in that month.  Since I use the account for immigration purposes (bank balance method) there is very little activity in the account.  (Which also means that it's very easy for immigration to check this account -- to see it was always above the required minimums for the required periods -- and making their job easier has benefits for your application.)

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9 minutes ago, khunPer said:

TIN and ID-number is the same number...🙂

Often that's the case, but not always.  It really depends on the order you receive your documents and whether you make it known that you already have a Thai ID number.  For example, I acquired my Thai ID number first when I got my yellow house registration book (tabian bahn).  I subsequently got my Thai Tax ID number from the Revenue Department.  Despite showing my yellow book, the Revenue Department issued me a different Tax ID number that does not match my existing Thai ID number.  When I subsequently got my pink ID card the Thai ID number on that card matches my yellow book one.  Having a different Thai Tax ID number hasn't caused any problems for me.

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8 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Overseas income (which include many forms of tax deferred pensions) remitted into the kingdom in the year received are taxable earnings. 

Thailand currently makes no effort to collect this revenue, and in fact lacks the ability to determine what is income and what is savings (hence non taxable) but that is the legal case. 

This idea that farangs have that live here over 180 days a year that everything is tax free is not correct. Investment income, capital gains, rental incomes, etc etc are all taxable if brought here in the year earned, and thats passive income. Active income is all the stuff someone might do which falls into the work permit and day 1 taxable situations. 

Thank you for your response. So, according to what you say, if Thailand wants, can tax the montly remittance some people send, in order to maintain retirement status?Also i dont think is correct that e.g. is you send here your rental income  is taxable because you will pay tax for this in your country, thefore you cannot have double taxation.

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3 hours ago, oznomad said:

Ummmm. Not quite.

Any number of days does not make you resident. That's why, here for example, there are 473 different visas and to get one of them often involves jumping through many hoops.

Otherwise we would all just stay 180 days and be resident.

 

Your country is NOT going to chase you down and say we dont want your taxes any more, give them to some other country.

 

Getting a TIN seems to differ depending where you live. In my case it was passport, plus Cert of Residence from Immigration. Nothing too difficult.

Actually filing a tax return was a different story. An unsuccessful one.

 

Important point. Having a Thai TIN does NOT make you tax resident in Thailand. The TIN is just an admin thing, albeit one that can be very useful, and possibly negate your need for tax residency here.

thank you for your answer

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2 hours ago, skatewash said:

Yes, you are eligible to get a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN).  In my experience the Thai Revenue Department is quite friendly and willing to help foreigners.  Although not many staff speak English well you will find someone there to help.

If you have a Thai bank account of any sort on which you earn interest and do not have a Thai TIN it is likely that 15% of that interest is being withheld for tax purposes.  In my opinion the easiest way to get a Thai Tax ID is to wait until the new year and visit your bank with your account passbooks.  Ask the cashier for tax withholding documents for each bank account that had interest withheld.  If they don't understand you can try: เอกสารภาษีหัก ณ ที่จ่าย or aow aik-ga-san hak pa-see nee tee-jai.  If you are still struggling to be understood, just open your passbook and point to an entry that shows tax being withheld and the penny should drop.  Many people will be doing the same thing, asking for their tax withholding documents.

With these tax withholding documents visit your local Thai Revenue Department (if it's the wrong one they will set you right).  Ask to get a Thai Tax ID or alternatively, หมายเลขประจำตัวผู้เสียภาษี aow mai-lek pra-jam tua-pu-sia pa-see.  They should get what you are trying to do when they see the tax withholding documents.  They will help you with your request and most likely issue you a Thai Tax ID (TIN) on the spot.  Try to get an actual Thai Tax ID card (printed on paper about the size of a credit card because this will prove valuable later when trying to get your refund), rather than just being told the number.

They will often help you fill out, or more accurately fill out themselves, a Thai Personal Income Tax Return so that you can get your interest withheld back (assuming you are under the income threshold which many in the OP's situation will be).  Sign and submit the return and in a few weeks time you will receive by mail a notice of how to get your tax refund.  Getting your tax refund will often involve taking the letter you receive to a branch of Krung Thai bank (and only this bank).  The entire process at Krung Thai Bank is explained very well here:

https://www.nationthailand.com/noname/30370085

You don't have to wait for the new year to get your Thai Tax ID Number.  You can go now.  It might be a little harder to explain what you want without the Tax Withholding documents from your bank but you can still ask for a Thai Tax ID Number as explained above.

By the way, keep everything.  You use your Thai Tax ID Number card year after year.  Keep your Krung Thai bank e-money card, it's reusable.  Keep a copy of your Thai Personal Income Tax Return (as you'll fill one out the next year just changing the amounts withheld).  You can basically do everything yourself the next year.  The first year is some work.  It's much easier in subsequent years.

Thank you very much

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I live in Thailand in non imm o visa (retirement). I pay tax to Thailand for the pension I bring in to Thailand. When you go to a revenue office to pay tax first time you get a tax id number. If you have a pink id-card you can use that id-number as your tax id number. I first got a different number, but later changed to my pink id number.

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On 11/27/2021 at 10:43 AM, Nik23 said:

No, i am not Norwegian. Thank you very much for your info.The thing is this: I dont want to declare anything, but it seems to me that i fall between the cracks. I am here about 10 years straight and i am doing tax reports back to my country as if i was leaving there!lol *In many cases i did things as if i was in the country!The law says if you stay more than 180 days in a country you are a resident there, thus, you have to change tax residency.So in the remote case that my country says to me, you dont live here anymore , you must change your  tax residency, i wanted to know if i can do tax reports in thailand.

Most countries (and certainly EU and North American countries!) are happy to have you as a taxpayer even if you understay the 183 limit there, except in the case where you are poor and only want to remain a resident of your country in order to avail yourself of Social Security or the National Health Service. In the latter case, since they can get no tax from you because you earn too little, they'd rather not have you at all.

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23 hours ago, Geir Rasch said:

I live in Thailand in non imm o visa (retirement). I pay tax to Thailand for the pension I bring in to Thailand.

Why?

 

Do you think they do a great job with the taxes?

 

1. If your pension is taxed in your home country, then you will be exempt from tax on it here.

 

2. If you have a capital amount that is over 12 months old you could draw on that and replace it with pension income, thereby avoiding the tax.

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19 hours ago, oznomad said:

Why?

 

Do you think they do a great job with the taxes?

 

1. If your pension is taxed in your home country, then you will be exempt from tax on it here.

 

2. If you have a capital amount that is over 12 months old you could draw on that and replace it with pension income, thereby avoiding the tax.

Why?

Because the tax agreement between my home country and Thailand say that I have to pay tax to Thailand for the part of my pension I transfer to Thailand during the tax year (not savings).
Secondly, tax in my home country is higher than in Thailand, so by paying tax to Thailand I save a big part of my pension. That is because tax in both countries are progressive, and shared between them the sum is considerably lower that if I paid all my tax to my home country.

 

If I think they do a great job with the taxes?
Yes ans no. I guess some of the tax goes to school, health and infrastructure. That is good in both countries. Some of the tax goes to things I do not support in both countries, and that is what we have to accept.
Of course I would like to see Thailand as a more democratic country, but that is not up to me and is not depended of my tax contributing.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that transfer savings does not trigger tax to Thailand, but then all my pension would be taxed in my home country. That is not benefit to me because of the progressive tax system and that the tax rates in my home country is higher that what is is in Thailand.

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On 11/28/2021 at 3:19 PM, skatewash said:

Often that's the case, but not always.  It really depends on the order you receive your documents and whether you make it known that you already have a Thai ID number.  For example, I acquired my Thai ID number first when I got my yellow house registration book (tabian bahn).  I subsequently got my Thai Tax ID number from the Revenue Department.  Despite showing my yellow book, the Revenue Department issued me a different Tax ID number that does not match my existing Thai ID number.  When I subsequently got my pink ID card the Thai ID number on that card matches my yellow book one.  Having a different Thai Tax ID number hasn't caused any problems for me.

I had the same experience as you with two ID-number. I had it for years and never had any problem with that other than having two different ID to keep track on. So I went to my local revenue office and  changed my tax ID to be the same as the ID on the pink card. 
Remember that you must also connect your bank accounts to an ID number because the bank take 15% tax of your interest rates and send to the revenue department. This you can get back, but then need a ID to connect you to that tax.

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On 11/28/2021 at 7:47 AM, LivinLOS said:

Thailand currently makes no effort to collect this revenue, and in fact lacks the ability to determine what is income and what is savings (hence non taxable) but that is the legal case. 

I asked the region revenue office why they do not cooperate with immigration to get tax from all foreign retiree in Thailand. They said that they do not check on all thai retiree to pay tax mostly because very few of them have taxable income. Then they cannot have a harsher practice over expat. So in practice it is up to every foreign retiree wether they will pay tax to Thailand or not. If tax in you home country is higher than in Thailand, you will save money by paying tax to Thailand if your home country have a tax agreement with Thailand.

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