Thailand intends to grow wild tiger population

[Thunglom]

5 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Thailand isn't the least bit concerned about conservation efforts or quality of life. Wake up.

 

What natural resource isn't being damaged beyond repair? I can say with personal knowledge it sure isn't ocean and fisheries.

The trouble with "personal knowledge" - is it isn't worth a fig compared to proper scientific research and critical thinking. 

[TheScience]

Just now, Thunglom said:

 

I think tyou are being obtuse - as anyone can work out, I mean 2000 tiger.

I think you need to go back to grade school for a math lesson.

 

No matter, we'll just put those 2,000 tigers on Thailand's to do list. The poor things are sure to starve before they hit a thousand. I guess there's always villagers...

[TheScience]

Just now, Thunglom said:

The trouble with "personal knowledge" - is it isn't worth a fig compared to proper scientific research and critical thinking. 

Well the science is quite clear and would completely substantiate my critical thinking and personal understanding of Thailand's Marine ecosystem over the past 25 years.

 

It's gone. Poof!

[Thunglom]

1 minute ago, TheScience said:

I think you need to go back to grade school for a math lesson.

 

No matter, we'll just put those 2,000 tigers on Thailand's to do list. The poor things are sure to starve before they hit a thousand. I guess there's always villagers...

The most recent Thai target was to double te population - they haven't achieved this - it sin Rea;ity staying stagnant.

When you say things like "strive" and "villagers" it makes me think you really don't know anything about the situation in Thailand.

[TheScience]

1 minute ago, Thunglom said:

The most recent Thai target was to double te population - they haven't achieved this - it sin Rea;ity staying stagnant.

When you say things like "strive" and "villagers" it makes me think you really don't know anything about the situation in Thailand.

The villagers being eaten was a joke.

 

Strive...?? No idea looking at the quote you snipped. Maybe get a reading lesson along with that math lesson.

 

This is what I know about Thailand. It will never have 2000 tigers. I also know it's fisheries are history.

[Thunglom]

4 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Well the science is quite clear and would completely substantiate my critical thinking and personal understanding of Thailand's Marine ecosystem over the past 25 years.

 

It's gone. Poof!

Now you are just waffling and looking for something to gainsay. I have pointed out there is potentially room for 2000 tigers in Thailand. You had never heard of that so decided to disagree. I but now you are trying to change the argument as to the governments attitude to wildlife and conservation and more or lesss AGREEING withy earlier postings. The problem is you are trying to cover a lack of knowledge with cynicism. This is no longer a discussion about tigers, it is you trying to save face.

[Kinnock]

On 12/5/2021 at 8:28 PM, Valentine said:

I always thought viagra would save the tigers

Unfortunately there's still 1.3 billion people who believe in 'traditional medicine'.

[Thunglom]

1 minute ago, TheScience said:

The villagers being eaten was a joke.

 

Strive...?? No idea looking at the quote you snipped. Maybe get a reading lesson along with that math lesson.

 

This is what I know about Thailand. It will never have 2000 tigers. I also know it's fisheries are history.

As ever you are not listening to what I posted. Just trying to face your own face.

"This is what I know about Thailand. It will never have 2000 tigers. I also know it's fisheries are history." - fact or opinion and I am talking tigers not fisheries.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Thunglom

[TheScience]

6 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

the situation

Definitely my next username. Thanks bro.

[Thunglom]

1 minute ago, Kinnock said:

Unfortunately there's still 1.3 billion people who believe in 'traditional medicine'.

That's be TCM.

[Thunglom]

4 minutes ago, TheScience said:

The villagers being eaten was a joke

I think that sums up your argument completely.

 

[Thunglom]

7 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Unfortunately there's still 1.3 billion people who believe in 'traditional medicine'.

TCM - traditional Chinese Medicine. is the scourge of flora and fauna around the world. In Thailand it puts huge pressure on wildlife e.g. tigers.

first thing is  - it doesn't work - 

Then there is the preference amongst those who b;eive in WIL products over farmed. 

It's not just China - this quackery is seen all over the world - their bogus claims to antiquity take in all sorts of people.

although China with it's new and expans=ding middle class is the biggest market - it is still very strong in countries like Laos, Vietnam and Thailand.

 

If you want an insight into how this quackery affects wildlife especially tigers have a read of this. -

"Tigers ending their days in high-pressure cookers" - 

https://phys.org/news/2021-12-tigers-days-high-pressure-cookers.html

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Thunglom

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Such as? ......Asian tapir, herds of wild banteng cattle and Gaur, wild Asian water buffalo, herds of deer etc?

 

What about bears, pangolin, giant hornbills, elephants, crocodiles, freshwater turtles, otters, gibbons and Langer monkeys, wild boar......do you see them often on your walk?

Yes all of the above... mind you, he is hiking through Nong Nooch and they are all concrete. 

[fondue zoo]

TCM

So if they feed ground up tigers to the tigers there will be more tigers?

 

Is there enough free natural habitat for all these tigers.?  A male usually has 40+ square kms of territory alone.

[ChrisY1]

Back to tiger raising for the temples then.....there's not enough parts to send to China nowadays, and prices are probably sky high!!

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

TCM

So if they feed ground up tigers to the tigers there will be more tigers?

 

Is there enough free natural habitat for all these tigers.?  A male usually has 40+ square kms of territory alone.

Yes...these is plenty or habitat left. The main problems are

 

A   there are not enough prey animals for the Tigers to feed on as poaching and hunting for food by locals has reduced their populations.

 

B.  The tigers themselves can roam out of the protected areas onto farmland, tempted by cows as easy prey.

 

C.  Tiger getting injured or accidentally caught in poachers traps...and of course intentionally hunted themselves. 

[bangkokbonecollector]

20 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Seriously - your single personal experience is a valid assessment? Or you have done an in-depth survey of Thailand's eco-systems?? Have you even attempted to identify the flora and fauna you encounter and the quantify this in terms of viable populations around Thailand? I presume you hike in the WFC - where have you actually been?

how much poaching have you witnessed? the illegal logging? The depletions of prey species? the encroachment through damming and other building in an around national parks?

 

The shear fact that there are only 200 or so tigers in Thailand are a clear indication that the eco-systems are severely depleted.

https://www.goexplorethailand.com/

 

A few of the places I have written about but I have hiked maybe 2 dozen other areas...just lazy to write them up 555

 

I really couldn't tell you what scurries around us but on every hike without fail we hear monkeys, some type of wild boar and always some type of pheasant. Always see elephant tracks and on one Hike into Khao Yai national park, I am pretty sure we heard a tiger in a cave or at the very least a large animal breathing heavily.

 

It is quite hard for us to know what we see as we are not fixed in a blind but making quite a lot of noise walking or cutting through the jungle.

 

I feel that the reality or perception I have of Thailand's conservation efforts is different. I know of rangers in half a dozen national parks who go on weekly conservation multi-day hikes.

[bangkokbonecollector]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes all of the above... mind you, he is hiking through Nong Nooch and they are all concrete. 

https://www.goexplorethailand.com/

 

Yeah tonnes of concrete 55555 55555

[bangkokbonecollector]

16 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Such as? ......Asian tapir, herds of wild banteng cattle and Gaur, wild Asian water buffalo, herds of deer etc?

 

What about bears, pangolin, giant hornbills, elephants, crocodiles, freshwater turtles, otters, gibbons and Langer monkeys, wild boar......do you see them often on your walk?

 

Or maybe you only see small Songbirds, a few snakes and lizards?  

 

There should also be packs of Asian wild hunting dogs, jackals, and big cats like leopard, clouded leopard, jungle and fishing cats.

 

Sadly all these species are near or on the brink of total extinction in Thailand, so I can't believe you actually see a healthy ecosystem abounding with wildlife.

 

 

 

Well I am not in a blind so some of these species would be hard to see with all the noise walking and cutting through the jungle makes. As I replied to another post, we always hear small to medium sized animals running around us. Pretty sure we heard wild boar on Khao Laem - Koh Chang and in Tak. We also always hear species of monkeys in the trees, one chucked something at us once.

[Thunglom]

10 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

TCM

So if they feed ground up tigers to the tigers there will be more tigers?

 

Is there enough free natural habitat for all these tigers.?  A male usually has 40+ square kms of territory alone.

As said there is calculated to be space for up to 2000 tigers in Thailand.

[Thunglom]

5 hours ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

https://www.goexplorethailand.com/

 

A few of the places I have written about but I have hiked maybe 2 dozen other areas...just lazy to write them up 555

 

I really couldn't tell you what scurries around us but on every hike without fail we hear monkeys, some type of wild boar and always some type of pheasant. Always see elephant tracks and on one Hike into Khao Yai national park, I am pretty sure we heard a tiger in a cave or at the very least a large animal breathing heavily.

 

It is quite hard for us to know what we see as we are not fixed in a blind but making quite a lot of noise walking or cutting through the jungle.

 

I feel that the reality or perception I have of Thailand's conservation efforts is different. I know of rangers in half a dozen national parks who go on weekly conservation multi-day hikes.

I can’t believe how naïve you are being.

I have 2 problems with your posts.

Firstly you seem to suggest that the eco-systems in Thai’s national parks are OK?

Secondly, don’t seem to realise how flawed anecdotal evidence is. 

[Thunglom]

11 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Back to tiger raising for the temples then.....there's not enough parts to send to China nowadays, and prices are probably sky high!!

Captive animals don't help conservation..... in fact they often hinder it.

[CharlieH]

Reported Off topic posts removed

[bangkokbonecollector]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

I can’t believe how naïve you are being.

I have 2 problems with your posts.

Firstly you seem to suggest that the eco-systems in Thai’s national parks are OK?

Secondly, don’t seem to realise how flawed anecdotal evidence is. 

Just telling what I see, not trying to make any definitive conclusion. I would say maybe only a third of the hikes I have done were/ are in national parks. Usually national park hikes are very basic and you do not really get to go into real nature.

 

Do you work in conservation in Thailand?

Edited December 8, 2021 by bangkokbonecollector

[Thunglom]

7 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Yes...these is plenty or habitat left. The main problems are

 

A   there are not enough prey animals for the Tigers to feed on as poaching and hunting for food by locals has reduced their populations.

 

B.  The tigers themselves can roam out of the protected areas onto farmland, tempted by cows as easy prey.

 

C.  Tiger getting injured or accidentally caught in poachers traps...and of course intentionally hunted themselves. 

This is only part of the picture ...

 

Prey for tigers - in Thailand its usually sambar, and wild pig but also muntjac, and even bantengs and .gaur. These animals need a healthy habitat as much as the Tigers and they are also heavily poached as food by those living around the forests. You'll see "hunters" restaurants all around Thailand that rely on this illegal stuff to fill their menus.

 

Tigers seldom roam onto farmland in Thailand - the exception at preset is the "bengal" tiger that appears to have been displaced somehow. If it truly is a Bengal, than it may have escaped from captivity....the inginenous subspecies is the Indochinese Tiger. (Corbetti). The real problem is encroachment - humans moving in on tiger habitat for reasons of farming, poaching etc.

 

Tigers are "accidentally" caught in hunters traps - as they would be illegal anyway. The fact is that the value of Tigers is so high it represents 2 years salary to a ranger, so bribery and corruption is rife.

 

As said there is potentially space in Thailand for up to 2000 tigers. The problem is encroachment on habitat - usually illegal. Farming, logging poaching roads and dams. These activities are often interrelated - building roads, dams and illegal logging fragments and despoils Tiger habitat and then gives access into the forests for poachers along the service roads. it also encourages other human activity in the forests.

there are laws against a lot of this butte government repeatedly tries to avoid the and develop virgin forest......

Edited December 8, 2021 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

21 hours ago, TheScience said:

The poor things are sure to starve before they hit a thousand.

I don't think you understand the process of rewinding a tiger population.

 

[Thunglom]

On 12/5/2021 at 12:49 PM, law ling said:

Good luck with it.

 

I'm reminded of the killing of the black leopard (and other wildlife) some years ago by someone in a business tycoon's party.

Good news? Premchai Karnasuta and 3 of his leopard-munching cronies have had their appeal quashed. The sentences have been reduced though; Premchai will serve 2.5 years..

[TheScience]

9 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Rome

roam

 

They haven't *Romed* since the days of the Colosseum.

 

Wildlife in Thailand is Doomed. Accept and move on.

[Thunglom]

27 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

Just telling what I see, not trying to make any definitive conclusion. I would say maybe only a third of the hikes I have done were/ are in national parks. Usually national park hikes are very basic and you do not really get to go into real nature.

 

Do you work in conservation in Thailand?

You were suggesting you thought there was a lot of wildlife in National Parks. This is subjective and anecdotal comment - you were disagreeing with my post - yet what you have stated is not supported by any evidence since the 1960s.

 

"Do you work in conservation in Thailand?": - what on earth are you trying to say with that comment? - it looks like you are now trying to attack the message. rather than the message.

The problem is people are so badly informed about the state of wildlife conservation in Thailand the comments like yours are not just inaccurate they are potentially harmful as they lead people to believe "everything is under control" - when in reality Thailand ay well have te distinction for presiding over the extinct of the last Tiger population in S.E. Asia.

[bangkokbonecollector]

21 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

You were suggesting you thought there was a lot of wildlife in National Parks. This is subjective and anecdotal comment - you were disagreeing with my post - yet what you have stated is not supported by any evidence since the 1960s.

 

"Do you work in conservation in Thailand?": - what on earth are you trying to say with that comment? - it looks like you are now trying to attack the message. rather than the message.

The problem is people are so badly informed about the state of wildlife conservation in Thailand the comments like yours are not just inaccurate they are potentially harmful as they lead people to believe "everything is under control" - when in reality Thailand ay well have te distinction for presiding over the extinct of the last Tiger population in S.E. Asia.

It was a simple question as I was wondering if you had knowledge or data on the topic from your experiences of working in the field in Thailand. Again, I was merely stating my own personal opinion and experiences. However, I can just see you are itching for a fight so good luck with that and your future. Peace