Questions on banking options before moving to Thailand

[Slosheroni]

The plan is to be relocating to Thailand late next year on a Non-OA visa from the US.

 

Bear with me but I've seen a few issues brought up here such as:

 

One easy option to transfer money into Thailand is by using Wise.  Is Wise now requiring two step verification by sending a verification code to only home based phone numbers (i.e. US)?  Meaning once I'm in Thailand with a Thai phone number will I not be able to receive and enter the verification code?  Can one maintain a US based number over a period years from Thailand?  My current carrier is Verizon.  Are they ok with that or is there another work around for this issue?  

 

It also seems best to maintain multiple bank accounts in the US. The problem is some banks like Wells Fargo do not do SWIFT transfers to Thailand (last I checked with WF they didn't).   I know Charles Schwab does this so that is one.  I believe there is an international account option you can set up with Schwab whereby you do not have to have a physical address in the States to maintain the account.   Is that correct?  Are there any other banks in the US that also provide this type of service?  If not, is it a problem trying to maintain a physical address in the States in order to meet the requirements of US banks?  Other than Schwab what are some of the more expat friendly, US based banks for transferring funds to Thailand?

 

Finally, after arriving in Thailand I'll need to set-up a Thai banking account.   I'm assuming this is possible after arrival

 and that most use Bangkok Bank for transferring funds into Thailand from overseas.

 

So, what I think I need to do now is find out from Schwab about an international account, confirm with Wise about their two step verification process for foreign phone numbers, find a backup bank in the US that can do SWIFT transfers to Thailand in case both Wise and Schwab become problematic in the future, check with Verizon about maintaining a US phone number while in Thailand, and brush up more on opening an account with Bangkok Bank from within Thailand.

 

Am I on the right course or way off base?

 

Thanks for any help

 

 

[Jingthing]

I can't answer all your specific questions but I will respond another way.

 

I have found an overwhelming consensus that Capitol One is the best bank for expats. Not Schwab. Open an account with them before you move.

 

I recommend having numerous US accounts. Banks close. Banks merge. Bank change their policies. I did this and it saved my ass.

 

I suggest SWIFT wire transfers to send money to Thailand. Best if done online.

 

Etrade bank currently does that online but they will soon be JP Morgan so I don't know about later.

 

Some banks will require an in person visit to sign initial SWIFT authorization.

 

I would also suggest opening an account with the State department federal credit union before moving. You can openly change to your Thai address with them later and they do have online SWIFT service. 

 

You will need a US phone. You can use google voice,  magic jack, vonage etc. but they won't work with two factor verification. Google voice might still work with some banks but that will likely be phased out.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Jingthing

[Slosheroni]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I can't answer all your specific questions but I will respond another way.

 

I have found an overwhelming consensus that Capitol One is the best bank for expats. Not Schwab. Open an account with them before you move.

 

I recommend having numerous US accounts. Banks close. Banks merge. Bank change their policies. I did this and it saved my ass.

 

I suggest SWIFT wire transfers to send money to Thailand. Best if done online.

 

Etrade bank currently does that online but they will soon be JP Morgan so I don't know about later.

 

Some banks will require an in person visit to sign initial SWIFT authorization.

 

I would also suggest opening an account with the State department federal credit union before moving. You can openly change to your Thai address with them later and they do have online SWIFT service. 

 

You will need a US phone. You can use google voice,  magic jack, vonage etc. but they won't work with two factor verification. Google voice might still work with some banks but that will likely be phased out.

Thanks for this.  It's great info. 

 

I talked with Verizon and it seems like it's just a matter of porting my US number to a new Thai service provider.  Basically I need a PAC number from Verizon and the new provider can then entire the info and done.  

[Slosheroni]

35 minutes ago, Slosheroni said:

Thanks for this.  It's great info. 

 

I talked with Verizon and it seems like it's just a matter of porting my US number to a new Thai service provider.  Basically I need a PAC number from Verizon and the new provider can then entire the info and done.  

Edit: I'm not sure that's going to work due to the county code.  

[PadPrikKhing]

Just wanted to say thanks OP for asking these questions. I'm going to be trying to go over in about April next year and I need all this same info. 

[sanuk711]

Wise will use your Thailand mobile number when transferring---(if thats how you set it up)...it isn't a problem. I have done it from Oz to Thailand for some time.

 

They do have a limit of 2 Million Baht-- and also a lower limit on Card transfers (Mine is $Aus18,000) which is a pain as I sometimes have to do several transfers.

 

And if you are going to use Wise a lot re immigration visa etc - BKK Bank would probably be the best option for that.......although people seem to be having some problems with their transfers at the moment.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Don't want to hijack the thread just an idea from one of Oz larger banks has, that will probably spread....N.A.B. have set up their card section now with what they call a Knock option---go into your account knock on the card (s) and it immediately locks---can not be used.  weeks/months latter you want to use, back into account Knock twice on card its now open to use.

No late night panic phone calls if you lose it etc......and dont need to keep checking to see if any site/shop you brought into once has carried on with another payments etc........I thought good idea.

Edited December 11, 2021 by sanuk711

[kiteman9]

This is how I solved the issue you are having. Tossable digits will port your Verizon number to connect to your Thai number. Bank of Bangkoks New York branch routing number will connect to your Thailand branch.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

https://www.tossabledigits.com

     The Thai Embassies and Consulates are currently issuing the normal 60-day tourist visa. Then apply for a O visa after you arrive and open a bank account and not have to get a yearly health insurance plan. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by kiteman9
because I can

[lopburi3]

Wise is international - no need for US phone number.  When they require I enter PIN they send it to my Thai number without issues.

 

Yes you should have several US accounts but believe having debit cards on them more important than SWIFT for normal living expense as WISE and others normally much easier and cheaper for monthly transactions.  But be sure to sign any SWIFT paperwork prior to leaving as often that must be done at branch.

 

I would also examine arrival on tourist visa and conversion to O visa/extensions in country to avoid additional insurance required by O-A type visa.  Better to have good international insurance than be required to have what they want at the time.

 

If ever served in armed forces USAA account available and no US address required. 

[gamb00ler]

You will have no trouble using WISE with a Thai number.

For a transfer of less than about US$21K, WISE is cheaper than SWIFT.  Above that number the WISE fees grow large enough to negate the conversion rate advantage over SWIFT.

 

Depending on your account balance(s), Schwab may refund the $25 SWIFT fees.  Sometimes they offer it and sometimes I have had to ask for that benefit.  I think Schwab will allow setting up a SWIFT transfer by phone.  I haven't tried because I have established a standard transfer to the same Thai bank account for years.  If you decide to keep your Schwab account, make sure to get their Visa debit card.  It ends up being the best exchange rate because Schwab will refund the substantial ATM fees charged here.  Last I checked there is a US$1K limit on withdrawals using that card.  The limit defaults to $500 but you can ask for an increase.

 

Here's a long thread on how to maintain a US number for banking while living in Thailand.  It's best to establish that while you're still in the US.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1122011-expats-keeping-a-phone-number-in-their-citizenship-country-aka-magicjack-not-working/

 

Based on other members on this board I set up accounts at State Department Federal Credit Union.  I can no longer recommend them.   I guess their attitude/policy has changed.

 

I would recommend that you consider getting a Non-immigrant "O" visa rather than "OA".   On OA you will be forced to buy a rather expensive health insurance policy of low quality from the approved short list of Thai companies.  The O visa does not have that requirement.

 

Before you leave the USA set up accounts for Social Security Administration and the IRS.  Those accounts can be difficult or impossible from Thailand.  You may not need them but it is not much effort and it may prevent future issues.

 

If you're on Medicare and will not be continuing your coverage submit your application to cancel at least a month before you wish to terminate.

 

Good luck!

 

[Slosheroni]

12 hours ago, kiteman9 said:

This is how I solved the issue you are having. Tossable digits will port your Verizon number to connect to your Thai number. Bank of Bangkoks New York branch routing number will connect to your Thailand branch.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

https://www.tossabledigits.com

     The Thai Embassies and Consulates are currently issuing the normal 60-day tourist visa. Then apply for a O visa after you arrive and open a bank account and not have to get a yearly health insurance plan. 

Thanks.  One question on Bkk Bank New York.  I was under the assumption that they will only take deposits from government agencies like Social Security but not private users like bank transfers.   So if my money is coming from a pension, Vanguard investments, or from a 401k or such you can't use Bkk Bank New York.  Is that right?

[Slosheroni]

4 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

 

Before you leave the USA set up accounts for Social Security Administration and the IRS.  Those accounts can be difficult or impossible from Thailand.  You may not need them but it is not much effort and it may prevent future issues.

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

For this are you talking about setting up the bank account where Social Security is deposited and where IRS is either paid from or where they are to deposit too?

[Jingthing]

Slosheroni, are you going to use the 65K baht per month INCOME method or the 800K in a Thai bank for extensions in Thailand?

If the income method, that's a very specific thing and there are many many topics here on how to do that (sending the 65K every month to Thailand) and about the pitfalls (there are definitely pitfalls).

When I was suggesting SWIFT wires it comes from my perspective which is sending one or two wires annually from the U.S. to my visa qualifying Thai bank account.

[Slosheroni]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Slosheroni, are you going to use the 65K baht per month INCOME method or the 800K in a Thai bank for extensions in Thailand?

If the income method, that's a very specific thing and there are many many topics here on how to do that (sending the 65K every month to Thailand) and about the pitfalls (there are definitely pitfalls).

When I was suggesting SWIFT wires it comes from my perspective which is sending one or two wires annually from the U.S. to my visa qualifying Thai bank account.

I definitely plan on using the 800000 baht option and just leaving it in the bank for immigration.

 

Is it possible to do all of this banking setup prior to arrival in Thailand?  Or I'm I going to have to come to Thailand, setup up a bank account, then return to the States to do all the SWIFT paperwork live at whatever US banks I choose then go back to Thailand?  I hate that flight....

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Slosheroni said:

I definitely plan on using the 800000 baht option and just leaving it in the bank for immigration.

 

Is it possible to do all of this banking setup prior to arrival in Thailand?  Or I'm I going to have to come to Thailand, setup up a bank account, then return to the States to do all the SWIFT paperwork live at whatever US banks I choose then go back to Thailand?  I hate that flight....

Make sure you have a few US bank accounts that allow online SWIFT transfers. Call all your banks for their policies. You shouldn't need to travel back if you plan well. You will need to be in Thailand to open Thai bank accounts.

[dddave]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I can't answer all your specific questions but I will respond another way.

 

I have found an overwhelming consensus that Capitol One is the best bank for expats. Not Schwab. Open an account with them before you move.

 

I recommend having numerous US accounts. Banks close. Banks merge. Bank change their policies. I did this and it saved my ass.

 

I suggest SWIFT wire transfers to send money to Thailand. Best if done online.

 

Etrade bank currently does that online but they will soon be JP Morgan so I don't know about later.

 

Some banks will require an in person visit to sign initial SWIFT authorization.

 

I would also suggest opening an account with the State department federal credit union before moving. You can openly change to your Thai address with them later and they do have online SWIFT service. 

 

You will need a US phone. You can use google voice,  magic jack, vonage etc. but they won't work with two factor verification. Google voice might still work with some banks but that will likely be phased out.

I have never used Capitol Bank so I can't speak to their service but I have used Charles Schwab for more than 15 years and they have been amazing.  Their Customer Service is always responsive and helpful.  They always go out of their way to solve any issue. 

The bank has refunded every single ATM fee I have ever been assessed by a Thai Bank and I never have issues with their debit card.

You will have no problem with transfers as long as you set-up your permissions in the US, before you depart.  Make sure a notation is made on your debit card account that you will be spending considerable time in Thailand.  

 

[Chris.B]

There are people on this forum who have been having problems receiving OTP to Thai phone numbers fro their home countries. Best to stay with your own country's phone companies for the time being.

 

[jwdub12]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:01 PM, Jingthing said:

I have found an overwhelming consensus that Capitol One is the best bank for expats. Not Schwab. Open an account with them before you move.

 

This is news to me.. Would you mind expanding on this?

[tonray]

1 hour ago, jwdub12 said:

This is news to me.. Would you mind expanding on this?

Not sure how one can quantify 'better' but Schwab has been absolutely excellent for me. From $15 flat fee no hassle online SWIFT transfers , to rebating foreign ATM fees, and outstanding customer service, I'm not sure how Capital One can top that.

[gamb00ler]

10 hours ago, Slosheroni said:

For this are you talking about setting up the bank account where Social Security is deposited and where IRS is either paid from or where they are to deposit too?

The accounts I was referring to are directly with those agencies.  Your SSA account will give you access to the details of your SSA benefits and the IRS account will let you check the status of your tax filings.  The IRS is in the process of converting their login security to the ID.me service which is much easier to set up while in US.

 

Once you have your SSA account entering your banking details for transfers to/from is easy.  The IRS has two separate online options for paying them.  You can set up and use EFTPS or you can just use an IRS webpage to set up each individual ACH transfer from almost all US financial institutions.

Edited December 12, 2021 by gamb00ler

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

We're moving to Thailand next November. We've moved our assets to Fidelity as they allow for international banking. As an expat, you can't do a few things like purchase mutual funds, and some other similar investment things, but you can set up a cash account, purchase ETFs, deposit into you IRAs, etc. Will be able to contact them from my Thai number. Same with Wise. I am going to pick up a cheap t-mobile prepaid account and throw some money on it to have a US number in case of emergencies. Their international rates aren't bad for the occasional business call.

[Thailand J]

I don't keep a US phone number.

I have a Schwab International brokerage account which comes with a bank account with NY Mellon Bank. I use the accounts for SWIFT transfer to Thailand, receiving payments and paying bills in US and dealing with the IRS. I use my Thai address and phone number on the accounts. Transfer money can be ordered online, and can be pre scheduled  monthly if you want. I make about 20 international transfers a year, all fees were waived. Schwab ATM card is godsend.

 

As back ups, Interactive Brokers accept Thai address and phone number to open a new account. Fidelity and Vanguard only accept US addresses so you need to open the new accounts before leaving US, and then change  to Thai address, as I did.  I have all four brokerage accounts with my Thai address, and Thai phone number to receive security codes.

 

 I link my US bank accounts to Schwab, log in to Schwab to make a small deposit or withdrawal from the bank accounts a few times a year to keep them active. Logging into a US bank from oversea may raise a red flag. Sometimes I wonder why I keep the bank accounts, my brokerage accounts met all my financial needs.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Thailand J

[Thailand J]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:10 PM, Slosheroni said:

Is it possible to do all of this banking setup prior to arrival in Thailand?  Or I'm I going to have to come to Thailand, setup up a bank account, then return to the States to do all the SWIFT paperwork live at whatever US banks I choose then go back to Thailand?  I hate that flight....

You need  to be in Thailand to open Thai bank accounts. After that you can provide your Thai bank accounts info to Schwab and Interactive Brokers online, no need to go back to US for paperwork. Fidelity and Vanguard may need paperwork, i don't know what is their latest policy as to how to link a Thai bank.

[Slosheroni]

So after swimming in this for a few days a couple of issues popped up.

 

One, is the impact of FATCA and financial institutions not wanting to continue working with expats overseas.  Has anyone ran into issues with Interactive Brokers, Schwab, Fidelity, or even banks like Capital One closing accounts or considering closing accounts?  Vanguard has already cut bait right?  I know Wells Fargo is gone.

 

Has anyone decided to employee an expat financial advisor to cut through some of the tax, investment, and other issues?

 

For those using Capital One are you keeping a US address?  Somewhere in my research on Capitol One it mentions requiring a US address.  

 

It's also been mentioned in this thread to setup most accounts while still in the States and to fill out the SWIFT paperwork while in the US.  Wouldn't that paperwork require a previously opened Thai bank account?  I'm imagining that the paperwork would need the information of the receiving account in Thailand to be completed.  Or can that end of the SWIFT paperwork, the adding of the receiving Thai account, referenced in this thread be done after moving to Thailand.

 

I have a meeting setup with my local Schwab rep but during the initial phone call he didn't seem entirely on top of all the issues expats face and also didn't sound optimistic about the long term commitment of Schwab but I might be way off base on my read of what he was saying.  I'll know more in a few weeks after a more in-depth meeting with him.

 

I don't know, it just seems like the FATCA reporting law has really limited banking options and hopefully the few that are left will continue to support expats.   Is anyone concerned that support might dry up even more?

 

Finally, are you finding you can talk to a live rep with most of these institutions?  It seems you're a little bit on your own when opening an account and figuring what services are provided, what services are needed, and the long term stability of their support.

[Jingthing]

 

Thai banks will still open accounts for Americans. Learn the rules of FBAR and FATCA reporting. I do annual FBAR filings and they are quick and easy to do. Fines for non compliance are SHOCKING.

 

Yes Capitol One requires a US address but they have been cool about people "travelling" indefinitely. I read expat info internationally and Capitol One is the most recommended expat friendly bank by far They are also I think good with international fees Contact them for traveling details. US Schwab is often trashed in comparison.

 

Do you have a relative that will help you be your US address?

 

The SWIFT in person thing is not for all banks. Avoid ones that require it. Like I said seek banks with online SWIFT.

 

I don't have Schwab but called them and talked about serving expats. They said would need to use international not US Schwab. 

 

You could try to fake being a US customer. I do with many accounts except with SDFCU. That means US phone address phone and even logins.

 

I have a Fidelity IRA. They were actively trying to smoke me out as an expat for about four years. Calls and threatening emails. 

 

You might consider opening

IRA with interactive brokers before you move. Fidelity at the very least will restrict allowed actions if they figure out you're an expat.

 

You also should figure out US cell phone based two factor authentification solutions before you move. Even if you dont need for current accounts you will later and acceptance of VOIP numbers is going away. I assume you have a US mobile number. Don't cancel it. Maybe port it to another cheaper service better as an expat.

 

You need to decide how to deal with your US state. If its a no state tax state no worries. If not, mine wasn't, I divorced myself from it by filing a last partial year return. California is notorious to giving grief to expats if they return.

 

Sound like a nightmare? It kind of is. Well I left a very long time ago. You're still there and can take proactive action. Nobody promised American expats a rose garden.

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The SWIFT in person thing is not for all banks. Avoid ones that require it. Like I said seek banks with online SWIFT.

What may be required is a general electronic payment authorization in person - that does not require any specifics so no need for Thai account to sign that.  But my experience was some 20 years ago so not sure still required as most things are electronic now.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

What may be required is a general electronic payment authorization in person - that does not require any specifics so no need for Thai account to sign that.  But my experience was some 20 years ago so not sure still required as most things are electronic now.

In any case each financial institution should be contacted before leaving the US to ask for the specific wire rules and options. I also favor closing accounts of obviously expat difficult ones and opening multiple accounts at ones that appear easier for expats. Once you live abroad the options for opening new US accounts are very limited. Be proactive. Be paranoid. Bad things will happen later guaranteed and you'll still be fine if you have BACKUPS.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Jingthing

[Slosheroni]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

In any case each financial institution should be contacted before leaving the US to ask for the specific wire rules and options. I also favor closing accounts of obviously expat difficult ones and opening multiple accounts at ones that appear easier for expats. Once you live abroad the options for opening new US accounts are very limited. Be proactive. Be paranoid. Bad things will happen later guaranteed and you'll still be fine if you have BACKUPS.

So what I'm coming up with based on the great comments in this thread is:

 

Keep my US phone number and switch to a carrier like US mobile, etc.  Backup numbers (SIMS) also wouldn't be a bad idea from other carries. 

 

Open accounts with various brokerages/banks with my current US address and change that address to a US based friend or relative prior to moving (I'm about two years out)

 

The best brokerages for the time being are Interactive Brokers, Schwab, then maybe Fidelity.  Opening with Schwab should be with Schwab International not Schwab US.   If I open with Schwab International now does FBAR and FATCA apply now or only when living overseas?

 

The best banks are Capital One, possibly USAA, and that's about it?  Are you referring to the Capital One 360 account?

 

Setup the Social Security and IRS accounts before leaving.

 

When contacting the various financial institutions do you recommend being straight up with them about my intentions of being an expat or just get everything set up and, as you say, "travel" indefinitely? 

 

Read up on FBAR and FATCA.  I have accounts with Vanguard now.  Can those accounts be left open with active investing going on while overseas if they are linked to a US bank?  Or are restriction placed on expats from even having US based mutual funds, etc.

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

 

 

 

[Slosheroni]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:49 PM, Jingthing said:

 

Thai banks will still open accounts for Americans. Learn the rules of FBAR and FATCA reporting. I do annual FBAR filings and they are quick and easy to do. Fines for non compliance are SHOCKING.

 

Yes Capitol One requires a US address but they have been cool about people "travelling" indefinitely. I read expat info internationally and Capitol One is the most recommended expat friendly bank by far They are also I think good with international fees Contact them for traveling details. US Schwab is often trashed in comparison.

 

Do you have a relative that will help you be your US address?

 

The SWIFT in person thing is not for all banks. Avoid ones that require it. Like I said seek banks with online SWIFT.

 

I don't have Schwab but called them and talked about serving expats. They said would need to use international not US Schwab. 

 

You could try to fake being a US customer. I do with many accounts except with SDFCU. That means US phone address phone and even logins.

 

I have a Fidelity IRA. They were actively trying to smoke me out as an expat for about four years. Calls and threatening emails. 

 

You might consider opening

IRA with interactive brokers before you move. Fidelity at the very least will restrict allowed actions if they figure out you're an expat.

 

You also should figure out US cell phone based two factor authentification solutions before you move. Even if you dont need for current accounts you will later and acceptance of VOIP numbers is going away. I assume you have a US mobile number. Don't cancel it. Maybe port it to another cheaper service better as an expat.

 

You need to decide how to deal with your US state. If its a no state tax state no worries. If not, mine wasn't, I divorced myself from it by filing a last partial year return. California is notorious to giving grief to expats if they return.

 

Sound like a nightmare? It kind of is. Well I left a very long time ago. You're still there and can take proactive action. Nobody promised American expats a rose garden.

 

Are you doing SWIFT transfers with Capital One?

 

Their website says online wire transfers can only be done within the States.

 

https://www.capitalone.com/support-center/bank/wire-info

 

"Online wire transfers can only be sent within the United States (including U.S. territories)."

 

 

[Thailand J]

 FBAR and FATCA cover oversea accounts. My US bank and investment accounts do not have to be reported.

 

Schwab international account, Interactive Brokers, Fidelity and Vanguard, are all based in US even tho I have my  Thai address on all those accounts, as such, they have nothing to do with FBAR and FATCA

 

Vanguard: After I have changed my US address to Thai address, the only thing that changed with my Vanguard account is that I am no longer able to change my address online. I need to call an agent to get instructions. I am able to trade mutual  funds, stocks and ETF's.

 

Fidelity:  After i have switched to Thai address.  I can not buy new mutual fund shares. I am allowed to trade stocks and ETF's. I am also allowed to keep my cash management account but can't apply for credit card.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Thailand J