15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I imagine most parents who agree with vaccinations feel the same.

I feel the same way (about my kids). Though, the risks do concern me too. 

 

But I ain't preaching that others should vaccinate their kids "to protect the elders in the community" ( yeah right)......like other people are. I can see through that joke.

3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Why do you think it falls to you to "convince" people? 

 

And are you really "done"? Somehow I doubt it. Maybe keep convincing yourself, that should keep you occupied and out of our hair.

 

 

 

Clearly.

 

 

Put it that way, I initially felt I had to defend myself and explain my point in the face of unprecedented political and social pressure.

 

Yes I am truly done with this approach as it is not fruitful whatsoever.

 

I may still make the odd comment though if I deem it relevant.

 

Edited December 27, 20214 yr by rattlesnake

I work in a school.  I want students vaccinated to protect me and all the other people who work in the school.  When teacher's are sick, classes get canceled.  

 

On 12/26/2021 at 5:16 PM, RichardColeman said:

My daughter has not been to her kindergarten for nearly a year now, she was 4 when stopped, but now turned 5, if the jab gets the school open and her back in then i'm ok with it. I don't like it, but will agree to it. She is at far more risk education wise than health wise from not taking it.

 

For some reason she the wife just took her for a flu jab, so 1 more wont hurt

I agree with you, here in Australia the have started vaccination 5-11yrs Pfizer and Mandora and have no reports of any side affects, it is not compulsory but they over vacs for other things just keep them safe and in schools.    

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

I guess when you've got nothing, you make it personal and go to motive. It's clear that you are cornered have no facts to back you up, and are resorting out of desperation to personal attacks. You've got nothing.

It's interesting though, isn't it?

 

All of a sudden good Samaritans are coming out of the woodwork, "Vaccinate your kids....for the elders in the community" lol.

 

Yeah, "for the elders".... more like so the restrictions can be lifted and I can get back to doing xyz.

 

Were all these good Samaritans like this before their enjoyment got taken away?

Edited December 28, 20214 yr by 2009

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

It's clear that you are cornered have no facts to back you up, and are resorting out of desperation to personal attacks.

The risks of vaccines (as with all pharmaceuticals) are clearly written on the datasheet that comes with them. You want me to show it to you?

 

It was you who talked about my honour, actually.

 

I am just pointing out that maybe all the people advocating for 5-11 year olds to take the risk of getting vaccinated (when their personal risk of covid complications is minimal-to-zero) aren't so honourable after all.

 

Maybe they have selfish reasons for want everyone to rush through a relatively untested vaccine.

 

I'd certainly like to see a bit more testing and due process on what these vaccines can do to 5-11 year olds first.

Edited December 28, 20214 yr by 2009

11 hours ago, Quidio said:

I work in a school.  I want students vaccinated to protect me and all the other people who work in the school.

You do realize, it is your vaccine that protects you, right?

 

And even if the kids are vaccinated, they can still get it and transmit it. The vaccine doesn't stop this; it just gives your body the weapons to fight it so you don't get a severe illness.

 

Would you listen to yourself, "I want students vaccinated to protect me."

 

Seriously? Why should they take that risk for you?

23 minutes ago, 2009 said:

You do realize, it is your vaccine that protects you, right?

 

Oy vey.

 

This is why we can't have good things.

 

 

47 minutes ago, 2009 said:

You do realize, it is your vaccine that protects you, right?

 

And even if the kids are vaccinated, they can still get it and transmit it. The vaccine doesn't stop this; it just gives your body the weapons to fight it so you don't get a severe illness.

 

Would you listen to yourself, "I want students vaccinated to protect me."

 

Seriously? Why should they take that risk for you?

What don't you understand about the fact that not getting vaccinated is riskier than getting vaccinated?

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about the fact that not getting vaccinated is riskier than getting vaccinated?

 

The chart in this article shows that approx unvaccinated kids get covid 10x times more often if i read that chart correct.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Results are from roughly 750 kids that got placebo and 1500 kids got Pfizer and they were monitored for a couple of months.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-how-well-pfizer-vaccine-prevents-covid-19-in-kids-2021-11?amp

 

This chart is off course before omicron said hello, so the same study might end up different now.

 

It also mentions a little bit of the side effects.

 

Overall it seems like it is a good idea to vaccinate the kids.

 

But maybe it's a bit to late now, since omicron spread so fast.

Schools start next week in many countries, so...

 

 

On 12/25/2021 at 6:04 PM, KhunLA said:

mind boggling ... 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-schools-idUSKCN24G2IS

 

 

I thought it was mind-boggling that Reuters actually printed such an article and did it with even handed integrity.

On 12/25/2021 at 10:08 PM, EricTh said:

This is really ridiculous and reflective of a tyrannical school. Why not change to another school?

 

Vaccination should be optional and the right to choose the type of vaccine are the basis of human rights.

I don’t think of the school as tyrannical. How far up the chain would you like to go? Let me know where you stop. 

On 12/25/2021 at 10:23 PM, placeholder said:

False. As many of us have explained to many others, to apparently no avail, VAERS stands for Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. It does not stand for Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System. There is no causality implied in the symptoms and/or deaths listed there. Anybody can list symptoms in that database. Over 60% of the US population has been vaccinated,. That's about 200 million people, It may seem unlikely to you, but among that number some will die and others will become ill. Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? Being vaccinated does not make you Superman. 

First of all it is not necessary to link his statement of long-term effects with VAERS.  VAERS is not measuring long-term effects or long-term events. I read it as in addition to the VAERS data as another concern.

 

On 12/26/2021 at 1:57 AM, KhunLA said:

Really depends on one's definition of a vaccine.  Which was changed, so these new 'shots' could be called a vaccine.

 

Before the change, a vaccine provide protection from getting the disease designed for. 

 

After the definition change ... well .. neither provided protection from contracting or transmitting.

Yes, they actually had the definition changes ... nuff said.

Actually I think we could add one more thing, namely, that had they called it simply a drug they would have been liable for damages. As a vaccine they are not liable.

It’s amazing how some of the most important aspects get lost in the fine print.

There has been some mention of adverse events here.

Is the VAERS data accurate?

This study out of Harvard concludes that it is not accurate but not in the direction you might think. 

The study out of Harvard was to find out just how well the VAERS was working.

https://healthit.ahrq.gov/…/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-repor…

 

From the results section:

”Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.”

 

That means, for vaccines, you could multiply the actual results by 100???

 

Furthermore Harvard was given a grant to investigate the VAERS and after the initial report the CDC consultants didn’t answer their requests.  

On 12/25/2021 at 10:23 PM, placeholder said:

False. As many of us have explained to many others, to apparently no avail, VAERS stands for Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. It does not stand for Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System. There is no causality implied in the symptoms and/or deaths listed there. Anybody can list symptoms in that database. Over 60% of the US population has been vaccinated,. That's about 200 million people, It may seem unlikely to you, but among that number some will die and others will become ill. Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? Being vaccinated does not make you Superman. 

On 12/26/2021 at 6:10 PM, TheScience said:

Besides, FDA is totally compromised $$$$

This is the most important line to me in what you wrote. I would make one correction and omit totally because I don’t know how deep it goes so I would be satisfied with just compromised. ????

Edited December 28, 20214 yr by Harveyg

On 12/26/2021 at 12:32 PM, KhunLA said:

Thankfully my daughter is done Uni.  

 

Mandatory shots for children ... the world has gone nuts.

Don't remember yours?

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Don't remember yours?

I certainly remember mine and I don't recall them having 3-month planned obsolescence.

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

I certainly remember mine and I don't recall them having 3-month planned obsolescence.

You remember your vaccine from birth? Amazing.

 

Multiple vaccines and boosters, oh my...

 

New born    
BCG vaccine against Tuberculosis
Hepatitis B vaccine, first dose
1 month    
Hepatitis B vaccine, second dose
2 months    
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Polio and HIB vaccine, first dose
4 months    
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Polio and HIB vaccine, second dose
6 months    
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Polio and HIB vaccine, third dose
Hepatitis B vaccine, third dose
9 – 12 months    
Japanese B Encephalitis vaccine (Lived vaccine), first dose
Japanese B Encephalitis vaccine, second dose (3-12 months apart)
Measles – Mumps – Rubella vaccine (MMR), first dose
>12 months    
Varicella vaccine (Chicken pox)
Hepatitis A vaccine, first dose
Hepatitis A vaccine, second dose (6-12 months apart)
18 months    
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus and Polio vaccine, first booster
2-2.5 years    
Measles – Mumps – Rubella vaccine (MMR), second dose
4-6 years    
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus and Polio vaccine, second booster
11-12 years    
Diphtheria and Tetanus vaccine (Tdap)
Consult your Pediatrician for    
Rotavirus vaccine first dose at age 6-15 weeks
Rotavirus vaccine second dose at age less than 8 months
Influenza vaccine (Age > 6 months)
Pneumococcal vaccine Rotavirus vaccine (starts at 2 months old)
Human Papillomavirus Virus (HPV) vaccine against cervical cancer (Age > 9 years)

4 hours ago, Harveyg said:

This is the most important line to me in what you wrote. I would make one correction and omit totally because I don’t know how deep it goes so I would be satisfied with just compromised. ????

So now FDA are the crook?

Wow man i really can't keep up with all those new theories.

 

Can't you just compile them in one thread so it's easier to keep track.

 

Then i also know which thread to avoid ????

5 hours ago, Harveyg said:

There has been some mention of adverse events here.

Is the VAERS data accurate?

This study out of Harvard concludes that it is not accurate but not in the direction you might think. 

The study out of Harvard was to find out just how well the VAERS was working.

https://healthit.ahrq.gov/…/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-repor…

 

From the results section:

”Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.”

 

That means, for vaccines, you could multiply the actual results by 100???

 

Furthermore Harvard was given a grant to investigate the VAERS and after the initial report the CDC consultants didn’t answer their requests.  

Link not working. Says page are not found.

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

I certainly remember mine and I don't recall them having 3-month planned obsolescence.

What makes you believe it was planned rather than incidental?

21 hours ago, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about the fact that not getting vaccinated is riskier than getting vaccinated?

Covid deaths for 5-11 yr old is so rare vs vaccinating my 10 yr old with a so called vaccine with no long term testing for side effects is an easy decision. What don't you understand?

5 hours ago, Harveyg said:

There has been some mention of adverse events here.

Is the VAERS data accurate?

This study out of Harvard concludes that it is not accurate but not in the direction you might think. 

The study out of Harvard was to find out just how well the VAERS was working.

https://healthit.ahrq.gov/…/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-repor…

 

From the results section:

”Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.”

 

That means, for vaccines, you could multiply the actual results by 100???

 

Furthermore Harvard was given a grant to investigate the VAERS and after the initial report the CDC consultants didn’t answer their requests.  

2 problems with your citation

1)The study from harvard is old. It covered a period that ended in 2010. Because of the massive amount of vaccinations that occur there is plenty of data in the VAERS system. Almost 1 million reports. 

2) You misunderstand the purpose of VAERS. It is not designed to ascertain the actual rate of any symptoms arising from Covid. It's meant to catch rare effects if there any. We don't need VAERS to detect most adverse effects from vaccination.. We have a data source that's far superior. It's a database composed of those who actually have been inoculated with Covid vaccines. Huge public health studies show that the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh the adverse effects. In fact, one study shows that covid vaccines actually show a small but measurable benefit in improving life expectancy.

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Covid deaths for 5-11 yr old is so rare vs vaccinating my 10 yr old with a so called vaccine with no long term testing for side effects is an easy decision. What don't you understand?

What don't you understand about the fact that there has absolutely never been a case of a vaccine inducing latent long term effects. But there is a record of viruses doing so. What don't you understand about that?

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Covid deaths for 5-11 yr old is so rare vs vaccinating my 10 yr old with a so called vaccine with no long term testing for side effects is an easy decision. What don't you understand?

 

I don't understand why you just don't choose to not vaccinate your 10 YO?

 

Why flap your gums here?

 

No one is forcing you to have your child vaccinated.

 

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about the fact that there has absolutely never been a case of a vaccine inducing latent long term effects. But there is a record of viruses doing so. What don't you understand about that?

The desperation in your post is palpable. Maybe you should convince yourself first. Then move on to telling others what to do?

6 hours ago, Harveyg said:

First of all it is not necessary to link his statement of long-term effects with VAERS.  VAERS is not measuring long-term effects or long-term events. I read it as in addition to the VAERS data as another concern.

 

Actually I think we could add one more thing, namely, that had they called it simply a drug they would have been liable for damages. As a vaccine they are not liable.

It’s amazing how some of the most important aspects get lost in the fine print.

I have no idea what you are on about re: long term effects. I didn't mention the them in my response.

 

The reason they don't call it a drug is simple: it isn't. It's a vaccine. It mobilizes the immune system to respond to diseases. In itself, unlike a drug, a vaccine does not act directly on the pathogen. Moreover, maybe out there is a drug that is prescribed to be taken once every several months.

And as for the nonsense about the definition of a vaccine being changed, it was changed because the one it replaced could be construed to mean that vaccines guaranteed immunity. Befor Covid, no one objected that this wasn't the case for HPV or Influenza vaccines. 

Science marches on. Apparently, ignorance does also.

Edited December 29, 20214 yr by placeholder

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I have no idea what you are on about re: long term effects. I didn't mention the them in my response.

 

The reason they don't call it a drug is simple: it isn't. It's a vaccine. It mobilized the immune system to respond to diseases. In itself, unlike a drug, a vaccine does not act directly on the pathogen. Moreover, maybe out there is a drug that is prescribed to be taken once every several months.

And as for the nonsense about the definition of a vaccine being changed, it was changed because the one it replaced could be construed to mean that vaccines guaranteed immunity. Befor Covid, no one objected that this wasn't the case for HPV or Influenza vaccines. 

Science marches on. Apparently, ignorance does also.

I suspect that many people don't understand how the immune system works.  The immune cells that specifically target a pathogen are part of the adaptive immune system and once they have cleared the infection, they self-destruct.  There may remain memory cells ready should a re-infection occur, but immune cells in themselves are very short-lived as is the actual vaccine. 

 

Whether you are vaccinated or have antibodies from a natural infection, they all start dropping off rather quickly.  

 

It's difficult to have a long-lasting effect from something that is short lived.  

29 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

The desperation in your post is palpable. Maybe you should convince yourself first. Then move on to telling others what to do?

 

The misguided indignation in your posts is palpable. Can you point to where in my comment I issued a command? Do you have anything to object to in the substance of my comment? Namely that it is irrational to have one's actions guided by the fear that the consequences of vaccination due to the possibility of long term latent effects given that there is no history of that ever being the case whereas there is a history of viral infections resulting in them?

 

On 12/26/2021 at 2:51 PM, KhunLA said:

In the USA, all adverse effects have to be reported by docs to VAERS.  A site, few non professionals know about, or would bother to report an incident to.  And they are investigated, where those results are, I've yet to find.

There have been about 1 million reports to VAERS. Do you believe that the FDA/CDC has staff to individually investigate each of them. Given that the CDC specifically says that these reports are unverified?