Poll: Has Science Been Beneficial or Detrimental to Humanity?

[Hummin]

15 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

As Education Increases in Civilized Society so Religion Decreases. Still so many people who should know better actually believe in unproven religious / superstitious nonsense, clearly man -made ! “Believe” in reality like Science…Don’t get how Scientists can be Religious. Requires Doublethink like 1984…….

I see some answers regarding my claim that people need to believe in something, and based on what i have read for years back in time, on surface, people claim they do not believe, but as quick their situation changes, illness, economic problems, war, etc, you will see people need something to take a grip on. 

 

If you stay long enough in Thailand, you can see to grip Buddhism have on the people here, and why is that? 

 

Here is one link if interested, and it was one of the first that showed up in a simple google search

 

"

Researchers who study the psychology and neuroscience of religion are helping to explain why such beliefs are so enduring. They’re finding that religion may, in fact, be a byproduct of the way our brains work, growing from cognitive tendencies to seek order from chaos, to anthropomorphize our environment and to believe the world around us was created for our use.

Religion has survived, they surmise, because it helped us form increasingly larger social groups, held together by common beliefs.

“If we’re on the right track with this byproduct idea — and the findings are really getting strong — it’s hard to then build the case that religion is a pathology,” says psychologist Justin Barrett, PhD, director of the cognition, religion and theology project in the Centre for Anthropology and Mind at Oxford University."

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/12/believe#

 

You have to remember how our brain chemistry works as well, but that is a much bigger chapter. 

 

 

If you want to read more "why do people need something to believe", but I know giving links to try to get someone to try to understand simple komplex things, do not necessery serve the purpose to make someone try to look at things from another point of view. Anyway, i think you aggree that religion like it or not have influenced us greatly, and still do. 

 

https://www.google.no/search?q=why+do+people+need+something+to+believe&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=nb-no&client=safari

[BritManToo]

42 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I see some answers regarding my claim that people need to believe in something, and based on what i have read for years back in time, on surface, people claim they do not believe, but as quick their situation changes, illness, economic problems, war, etc, you will see people need something to take a grip on. 

Modern unfounded beliefs, COVID, climate change ......

False science has replaced false gods IMHO.

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Modern unfounded beliefs, COVID, climate change ......

False science has replaced false gods IMHO.

So covid and clima changes is false gods and false schience? Then I have to ask which planet er you living on? Tellus had and have clima that is in constant change because of known external directly reasons, and unknown external reasons, also internal known reasons as human activity, and we also have a lack of understanding how planet earth reacting and heal itself back to balance, whatever that is or mean. 

 

Covid is real, and you can not deny a virus that is new to humanity that it will take time for our immune system to built a defense agains it. So I say your claim is false. 

 

I aggree when it comes to how media have been feeding on both, and how politicians is dealing with both. But Im not there to consider how to deal with it on behalf of my people. Thank god for all of us!

Edited December 29, 2021 by Hummin

[tgw]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I don't think you properly see my point in my quoted post.

so you want to make this point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Evolution_as_theory_and_fact_in_the_literature

 

I suspect the statements about evolution being a fact were/are made under duress in response to opponents wanting to first discredit the theory to then push their political agenda, manipulating the simple minds with propaganda and religious populism. I guess saying "theory is fact" is a misguided oversimplification to try to reach the "base" and convey the message that many facts support the theory.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Evolution_as_a_collection_of_theories_not_fact

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, tgw said:

so you want to make this point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Evolution_as_theory_and_fact_in_the_literature

 

I suspect the statements about evolution being a fact were/are made under duress in response to opponents wanting to first discredit the theory to then push their political agenda, manipulating the simple minds with propaganda and religious populism. I guess saying "theory is fact" is a misguided oversimplification to try to reach the "base" and convey the message that many facts support the theory.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Evolution_as_a_collection_of_theories_not_fact

Could evolution have happend because of life arriving from space? Asteroids, aliens sent research missions? Could it happen we send lifeforms to other planets soon in a controlled way? Would that make us gods who create life on planets? Or change life on other planets alike earth? What is god or a god anyway? We know we can change life and lifeforms here at the earth already. Not so far fetched, but we really do not know. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Could evolution have happend because of life arriving from space? Asteroids, aliens sent research missions? Could it happen we send lifeforms to other planets soon in a controlled way? Would that make us gods who create life on planets? Or change life on other planets alike earth? What is god or a god anyway? We know we can change life and lifeforms here at the earth already. Not so far fetched, but we really do not know. 

If it did then only as a single cell organism. We already know that the origins of life on Earth go back that far.

 

https://www.science.org.au/curious/space-time/origins-life-earth

 

 

[tgw]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Could evolution have happend because of life arriving from space? Asteroids, aliens sent research missions? Could it happen we send lifeforms to other planets soon in a controlled way? Would that make us gods who create life on planets? Or change life on other planets alike earth? What is god or a god anyway? We know we can change life and lifeforms here at the earth already. Not so far fetched, but we really do not know. 

"evolution" does not mean the same thing as "apparition of life".

Evolution has been observable and is a proven theory, but it doesn't explain everything.

 

And just because science can't explain everything, it's not a reason to turn to sci-fi fantasy.

[The Hammer2021]

On 12/26/2021 at 6:33 PM, zzaa09 said:

Not science, per se.......but Occidental civilisations, historically, have been highly detrimental to most everything. 

 

Would that include Ghengis Khan and the Mongol Hordes?

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, tgw said:

"evolution" does not mean the same thing as "apparition of life".

Evolution has been observable and is a proven theory, but it doesn't explain everything.

 

And just because science can't explain everything, it's not a reason to turn to sci-fi fantasy.

Why is it sci-fi fantasy? There are already quite good indications that asteroids carrying ice can or could bring lifeforms to earth. Planet earth just cant be the single one planet in the universe with life?

 

What we for sure know, is that surten lifeforms can go in to dormant state, and survive quite long in harsh enviroments. 

 

We also know we are able to single out planets, send a probe with a selection of different lifeforms if we want. 

 

I believe life travels space, just a matter of time before we know. 

[TropicalGuy]

12 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The key to survival is solving climate change. If we can do that we can live on our planet. If not, we are doomed.

Solving Climate Change would require unimaginably advanced technology and politics which will not be available in time.

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, tgw said:

"evolution" does not mean the same thing as "apparition of life".

Evolution has been observable and is a proven theory, but it doesn't explain everything.

 

And just because science can't explain everything, it's not a reason to turn to sci-fi fantasy.

You made me spit my drink on my keyboard, tgw.  WdaF is a "proven theory?"  There's no end to the nonsensical, illogical ideas folks come up with. 

[Tippaporn]

"We can never be right, we can only prove we're wrong."

Enjoy!

 

 

[Hummin]

14 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Solving Climate Change would require unimaginably advanced technology and politics which will not be available in time.

Solving climate change would take a complexed understanding how things affect each other, and know the chain of reactions together with other forces we do not completely understand yet. Just the cyclus of sun is not fully understood yet, and how it affect our life on earth. 

 

If we want to do something, we have to stop cutting down forrestes, and stop abusing the planet the way we have done the last 2 centuries, but it is all about the economic power that need to grow to stay on the top of the chain. 

 

So, without total control of the population on the planet we are deleted, and who want to live under total control anyway? 

 

Stop having babies to save the planet! I have done my share ????

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

So covid and clima changes is false gods and false schience? Then I have to ask which planet er you living on?

I'm on the planet where masks and vaccines don't stop COVID .........

And the sea levels haven't risen .........

 

But many foolish people still BELIEVE they will.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

If we want to do something, we have to stop cutting down forrestes, and stop abusing the planet the way we have done the last 2 centuries,

I'm not part of your 'we', I haven't cut down any forests or abused the planet.

Sad to hear your admission of guilt though, maybe you should stop doing those things?

[BritManToo]

34 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You made me spit my drink on my keyboard, tgw.  WdaF is a "proven theory?"  There's no end to the nonsensical, illogical ideas folks come up with. 

While some people choose to believe they have evolved from apes.

I believe I have devolved from super intelligent aliens who crash landed on the planet.

 

There's just as much evidence for my theory as there is for their theory (i.e. NONE).

But I can feel so much superior about my imaginary ancestors than all the 'ape people'. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by BritManToo

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

While some people choose to believe they have evolved from apes.

I believe I have devolved from super intelligent aliens who crash landed on the planet.

 

There's just as much evidence for my theory as there is for their theory (i.e. NONE).

But I can feel so much superior about my imaginary ancestors than all the 'ape people'. 

An super intelligent Alien who ended up as a caveman? Impressive! Have you checked if you have a tail bone? If have, you are from the same genepool where the apes comes from, and if not, you better check your dna for Alien traces. 

[TropicalGuy]

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Solving climate change would take a complexed understanding how things affect each other, and know the chain of reactions together with other forces we do not completely understand yet. Just the cyclus of sun is not fully understood yet, and how it affect our life on earth. 

 

If we want to do something, we have to stop cutting down forrestes, and stop abusing the planet the way we have done the last 2 centuries, but it is all about the economic power that need to grow to stay on the top of the chain. 

 

So, without total control of the population on the planet we are deleted, and who want to live under total control anyway? 

 

Stop having babies to save the planet! I have done my share ????

Yes. ????CC Complexity is Extreme. Saw an incredibly convoluted CC flow chart on YouTube with a hundred or so interacting variables which I could not follow beyond step 5 ….and yes the politics would require a World Govt…….plus unimaginable “world engines” (nuclear fusion driven) to somehow consume  the excess carbon dioxide & methane or push it into space………not optimistic humanity can do the necessary at all let alone in time …….plan B then….how to survive the inevitable runaway greenhouse gas effect……long enough to evacuate key humanity off the planet..

[TropicalGuy]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

While some people choose to believe they have evolved from apes.

I believe I have devolved from super intelligent aliens who crash landed on the planet.

 

There's just as much evidence for my theory as there is for their theory (i.e. NONE).

But I can feel so much superior about my imaginary ancestors than all the 'ape people'. 

Yeah right…..let’s just ignore fossil records ,dna records & bone structures, etc , over millions of years, which have PROVEN Evolution as FACT. Beyond ANY Scientific Doubt. How DO you explain chimps having 98% of human dna other than evolving from common ancestry ? 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

so you want to make this point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Evolution_as_theory_and_fact_in_the_literature

 

I suspect the statements about evolution being a fact were/are made under duress in response to opponents wanting to first discredit the theory to then push their political agenda, manipulating the simple minds with propaganda and religious populism. I guess saying "theory is fact" is a misguided oversimplification to try to reach the "base" and convey the message that many facts support the theory.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory#Evolution_as_a_collection_of_theories_not_fact

I've made my point.  Over and over and over again.  What's the point you're trying to make?  Or perhaps the better question is what, specifically, do you want me to see from the Wiki section your pointing me to?

 

Evolution as theory and fact in the literature

 

The following sections provide specific quotable references from evolutionary biologists and philosophers of science demonstrating some of the different perspectives on evolution as fact and theory.

[Tippaporn]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

While some people choose to believe they have evolved from apes.

I believe I have devolved from super intelligent aliens who crash landed on the planet.

 

There's just as much evidence for my theory as there is for their theory (i.e. NONE).

But I can feel so much superior about my imaginary ancestors than all the 'ape people'. 

Bravo!  

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Yeah right…..let’s just ignore fossil records ,dna records & bone structures, etc , over millions of years, which have PROVEN Evolution as FACT. Beyond ANY Scientific Doubt. How DO you explain chimps having 98% of human dna other than evolving from common ancestry ? 

A banana shares 50%  DNA with humans.

Are you suggesting we are all evolved from bananas?

https://lab.dessimoz.org/blog/2020/12/08/human-banana-orthologs

Edited December 29, 2021 by BritManToo

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

 …….plan B then….how to survive the inevitable runaway greenhouse gas effect……long enough to evacuate key humanity off the planet..

I find a bit rediculous to be earnest. A plan B on a new planet? A plan that maybe would involve xxx xxx people, create a new sustainable life on a planet with alot harsher enviroment than on our planet? Spending so much resourches for something that to be true, is not really needed for 1000´s of years yet. We can live trough the climate changes we experience now, but it might take a toll on the population, but thats how nature works. 

 

I find the whole discussion about settle on other planets rediculous, and cant believe people do bite on that part. It is more about feeding the economics, the science, the more adventorous dreams and so on, than it will serve hummanity. 

 

We are just not only in a weaponery race, economic race, we are also in a space race to dominate future valuable resourches so we can exploit more.

 

In the best way I see it as another disturbance to take way our focus on whats really important. 

 

Clean air, clean water, preserve the oceans, rainforrests, and the diversity in nature.

 

@BritManToo

I have no guilt whats so ever, and I have done my share. Zero kids!   

[ozimoron]

37 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm on the planet where masks and vaccines don't stop COVID .........

And the sea levels haven't risen .........

 

But many foolish people still BELIEVE they will.

Both have been proved beyond a shadow of doubt.

 

Does a raincoat stop you from getting wet? Does a jacket stop you from getting cold? If you claimed that they didn't in the same absolutist terms your are stretching here people would think you were mad.

Edited December 29, 2021 by ozimoron

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

 

@BritManToo

I have no guilt whats so ever, and I have done my share. Zero kids!   

Don't worry my superior alien genetics have managed to father 5 (so far as I know).

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Don't worry my superior alien genetics have managed to father 5 (so far as I know).

Exactly my point! Thank you ????

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

A banana shares 50%  DNA with humans.

Are you suggesting we are all evolved from bananas?

Stop, BMT.  Stop.  You're killing me.   

Next thing you know they'll be rebranding Mr. Potato Head to be used in science classes for building evolutionary models.

[TropicalGuy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

A banana shares 50%  DNA with humans.

Are you suggesting we are all evolved from bananas?

Deflecting, Failing to Answer Simple Questions, Answering a Question with AnotherQuestion, Failing to Accept Scientific Method / Outcomes.

Failure to Produce Scientific EVIDENCE for Daft Theories.

Failure to Research Evolution & how it works. No Interest in Facts contradicting their Untenable positions.

All Typical Immature Silly Transparent Tactics by Pseudo - Scientists and their irrational unhinged followers…….

[TropicalGuy]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Both have been proved beyond a shadow of doubt.

Medical masks stop Covid. Western studies show non- medical Cloth masks (7/11 types) do nothing medically significant at all. 

[TKDfella]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

I see some answers regarding my claim that people need to believe in something, and based on what i have read for years back in time, on surface, people claim they do not believe, but as quick their situation changes, illness, economic problems, war, etc, you will see people need something to take a grip on. 

 

If you stay long enough in Thailand, you can see to grip Buddhism have on the people here, and why is that? 

 

Here is one link if interested, and it was one of the first that showed up in a simple google search

 

"

Researchers who study the psychology and neuroscience of religion are helping to explain why such beliefs are so enduring. They’re finding that religion may, in fact, be a byproduct of the way our brains work, growing from cognitive tendencies to seek order from chaos, to anthropomorphize our environment and to believe the world around us was created for our use.

Religion has survived, they surmise, because it helped us form increasingly larger social groups, held together by common beliefs.

“If we’re on the right track with this byproduct idea — and the findings are really getting strong — it’s hard to then build the case that religion is a pathology,” says psychologist Justin Barrett, PhD, director of the cognition, religion and theology project in the Centre for Anthropology and Mind at Oxford University."

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/12/believe#

 

You have to remember how our brain chemistry works as well, but that is a much bigger chapter. 

 

 

If you want to read more "why do people need something to believe", but I know giving links to try to get someone to try to understand simple komplex things, do not necessery serve the purpose to make someone try to look at things from another point of view. Anyway, i think you aggree that religion like it or not have influenced us greatly, and still do. 

 

https://www.google.no/search?q=why+do+people+need+something+to+believe&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=nb-no&client=safari

I think some people tend to forget that 'science' began within the confines of religion and it wasn't until (comparatively) recent that the two began to separate. For example, Tycho Brae (Latinized form of his name) in the early 17th century, did very accurate work (for that period) in astronomy yet when the heliocentric model was suggested, which introduced very large, differing numbers (distances, sizes etc), he rejected it. Why? He insisted that '...God being author of the universe...' would prefer otherwise. Of course this is just one example and there are plenty more (for those interested).

But some of today's scientists (often famous for one reason or another) have, arguably, replaced a deity with another 'belief', Beauty. It works similar to Occam's Razor, but is not synonymous with it, and very very roughly suggests that if the equations describing a certain topic 'flow and look 'beautiful'' they must be right. Unfortunately, sometimes the is no physical evidence to back them up and so currently this is very hotly debated issue in science.

(For those interested there are plenty of books on the market describing this situation; Not Even Wrong, by Peter Woit; Why Beauty is Truth by Ian Stewart, Lost in Math by Sabine Hossenfelder and the list goes on ????)