Omicron: "highly transmissible". What does this mean in practice?

[samtam]

As we know from all reports Omicron is highly transmissible. What I cannot grasp, or may have missed, is how can you get it? Specifically, if you're in the same room as someone asymptomatic, in a car with someone asymptomatic etc? Is there any way to avoid getting it except by complete isolation?

 

I am now taking measures to avoid being near anyone to minimise the chance of catching, as I did during Delta and before being vaccinated.

 

I have now been vaccinated 3 times, AZ in July & September and Moderna in December. I am not overly concerned about getting Omicron because of this, and because I am healthy without comorbidities, although I'm 64. What makes me have an abundance of caution is the current unclear policy of the Thai government about how they will treat someone who tests positive, even if asymptomatic. I have hospital insurance for Covid, but I do not want to spend 10 days in hospital, if I do not have severe symptoms.

 

Thailand's Medical Services Department has issued guidelines that include isolation for asymptomatic cases which are not severe, but it is far from clear whether this is being followed by hospitals and PCR testing centres. And the guidelines are reiterated in this tweet from Khaosod. But what does it actually mean in practice?

 

[Airalee]

34 minutes ago, samtam said:

What makes me have an abundance of caution is the current unclear policy of the Thai government about how they will treat someone who tests positive, even if asymptomatic. I have hospital insurance for Covid, but I do not want to spend 10 days in hospital, if I do not have severe symptoms.

If you have no symptom, why would you get tested?  That sounds a bit obsessive.  
 

If you feel like you might have mild symptoms (like a cold).  Stay home.

 

If you feel like you have severe symptoms, go to the hospital.

[samtam]

There are a couple of threads on this, about living in a condo, and observing their protocols established to protect fellow residents and staff. Here's one:

 

 

[richard_smith237]

You can continue to take precautions... 

 

i.e. when taking a taxi, us an N95 mask instead of a cloth-mask...  while nothing other than a full pressurised hazmat suit provides full protection a well fitting N95 mask will offer you improved protection. 

 

Other methods include ordering food online, supermarket shopping online etc

 

Maintaining ‘bubble’ friendships with those who are reliable and don’t behave recklessly going to bars etc, those who carry out an ATK test before you visit them (and you yourselves do so). 

 

 

Or... just live live and test regularly, if you ATK positive, then isolate. 

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

If you have no symptom, why would you get tested?  That sounds a bit obsessive.  
 

If you feel like you might have mild symptoms (like a cold).  Stay home.

 

If you feel like you have severe symptoms, go to the hospital.

Why is it obsessive to test even though you have no symptoms? Its a requirement for many aspects of society nowadays.

[Bkk Brian]

59 minutes ago, samtam said:

As we know from all reports Omicron is highly transmissible. What I cannot grasp, or may have missed, is how can you get it? Specifically, if you're in the same room as someone asymptomatic, in a car with someone asymptomatic etc? Is there any way to avoid getting it except by complete isolation?

 

I am now taking measures to avoid being near anyone to minimise the chance of catching, as I did during Delta and before being vaccinated.

This is my take, everything you did to avoid catching Delta now has to be even more stringent, so masks need to be better, social distancing, visiting inside restaurants etc. 

 

But even with being extra vigilant this Omicron seems to find a way in.

 

Current scientific consensus is that the main reason for it being so transmissible over delta and the other strains is not just because of its airborne capabilities but because it needs a smaller viral load to infect you, plus its breaks through your vaccine defenses.

[samtam]

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You can continue to take precautions... 

 

i.e. when taking a taxi, us an N95 mask instead of a cloth-mask...  while nothing other than a full pressurised hazmat suit provides full protection a well fitting N95 mask will offer you improved protection. 

 

Other methods include ordering food online, supermarket shopping online etc

 

Maintaining ‘bubble’ friendships with those who are reliable and don’t behave recklessly going to bars etc, those who carry out an ATK test before you visit them (and you yourselves do so). 

 

 

Or... just live live and test regularly, if you ATK positive, then isolate. 

I do all of that. I'm just rather hoping the mandatory hospital admission will be shelved if one is asymptomatic and not in need of hospital treatment. Until that is clarified by the relevant authority, whoever that is, (and even that is not clear), with indications that clarification might not be decided upon for 4 weeks, I am going to "interpret" the condo regulations to avoid that; my grocery shopping was done through my personal shopper this morning, paid for by bank QR code, delivered to the lobby and deposited outside my flat door by the receptionist; there was no person to person contact....well by me, (selfishly, I know). However, I think Thais are not quite the payola for hospitals/hospitels that farangs are, so rules will be bent to suit the day, and the alignment of the stars.

Edited January 6, 2022 by samtam

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why is it obsessive to test even though you have no symptoms? Its a requirement for many aspects of society nowadays.

Because we are human beings who care about the risk we may present to others, at the same time we don’t want to isolate 100%....

 

For example: we visited friends a few days ago - we all took an ATK test to ensure we were clear before we did so.

Over the Christmas and New Year period we have visited a couple of different households and also had people at ours. The agreement has always been that everyone takes an Antigen Test out of consideration for the others. 

 

When my Son is at school, they are asked to take a weekly antigen test, as are the teachers.

 

I play football and in doing so mix with others, I don’t got out to busy bars etc, but some of the others might. I can’t control what they do. But I can take regular Antigen Tests to ensure I am clear (I take 2-3 tests per week), its not for me... but I don’t want to pass on Covid-19 to my In-laws or for pass Covid-19 on to friends who may pass it on to older people they know and meet. 

 

Thus, self testing offers a level of normalcy that we can continue with 'some life and activities’ while taking precautions and also being considerate of others we may meet.

 

Its not hard - its just a little consideration to take self test. 

 

 

 

 

[samtam]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Because we are human beings who care about the risk we may present to others, at the same time we don’t want to isolate 100%....

 

For example: we visited friends a few days ago - we all took an ATK test to ensure we were clear before we did so.

Over the Christmas and New Year period we have visited a couple of different households and also had people at ours. The agreement has always been that everyone takes an Antigen Test out of consideration for the others. 

 

When my Son is at school, they are asked to take a weekly antigen test, as are the teachers.

 

I play football and in doing so mix with others, I don’t got out to busy bars etc, but some of the others might. I can’t control what they do. But I can take regular Antigen Tests to ensure I am clear (I take 2-3 tests per week), its not for me... but I don’t want to pass on Covid-19 to my In-laws or for pass Covid-19 on to friends who may pass it on to older people they know and meet. 

 

Thus, self testing offers a level of normalcy that we can continue with 'some life and activities’ while taking precautions and also being considerate of others we may meet.

 

Its not hard - its just a little consideration to take self test. 

 

 

 

 

We did ATKs on New Year's Eve before going to friends. They were surprised, but I said that we did out of courtesy to them. None of us has had any symptoms since, nor have I mixed with other people; I swim, but I go down in the lift masked and only with my spouse, (as is the rule, "persons from one household or one person per ride"), and the pool and all other facilities, are booked on a similar basis.

 

All 30 of our condo staff have a weekly ATK test here too, paid for by the residents. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by samtam

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Because we are human beings who care about the risk we may present to others, at the same time we don’t want to isolate 100%....

 

For example: we visited friends a few days ago - we all took an ATK test to ensure we were clear before we did so.

Over the Christmas and New Year period we have visited a couple of different households and also had people at ours. The agreement has always been that everyone takes an Antigen Test out of consideration for the others. 

 

When my Son is at school, they are asked to take a weekly antigen test, as are the teachers.

 

I play football and in doing so mix with others, I don’t got out to busy bars etc, but some of the others might. I can’t control what they do. But I can take regular Antigen Tests to ensure I am clear (I take 2-3 tests per week), its not for me... but I don’t want to pass on Covid-19 to my In-laws or for pass Covid-19 on to friends who may pass it on to older people they know and meet. 

 

Thus, self testing offers a level of normalcy that we can continue with 'some life and activities’ while taking precautions and also being considerate of others we may meet.

 

Its not hard - its just a little consideration to take self test. 

 

 

 

 

Agree entirely, unfortunately its those who have no consideration for others that often create clusters.

 

My daughter tests weekly for school so I do one along with her each week, however if I visited any risky venues then I would do another. A couple of weeks ago we took part in a 5k run and all had to be tested negative first. As said while this pandemic is going on, its part and parcel of society.

[samtam]

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is my take, everything you did to avoid catching Delta now has to be even more stringent, so masks need to be better, social distancing, visiting inside restaurants etc. 

 

But even with being extra vigilant this Omicron seems to find a way in.

 

Current scientific consensus is that the main reason for it being so transmissible over delta and the other strains is not just because of its airborne capabilities but because it needs a smaller viral load to infect you, plus its breaks through your vaccine defenses.

Thanks. I'm expecting it, but I'm just gauging how to deal with the Thai government policy, until it's clarified in the guideline aforementioned. The sheer numbers of infected people will ensure that self-isolation, where possible, will become the policy, but I wish they'd just get on with it.

Edited January 6, 2022 by samtam

[Airalee]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

(I take 2-3 tests per week)

 

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

My daughter tests weekly for school so I do one along with her each week,

Pure theater.

 

what happens if you take a test on Monday that shows negative but become positive on Tuesday?  
 

And now, you wait until a few days or almost a week later for that twice weekly/weekly test?

 

How would you not be an asymptomatic (or very mildly symptomatic) superspreader in this case.  
 

It sounds like symptoms of hypochondria.

[Bkk Brian]

22 minutes ago, Airalee said:

 

Pure theater.

 

what happens if you take a test on Monday that shows negative but become positive on Tuesday?  
 

And now, you wait until a few days or almost a week later for that twice weekly/weekly test?

 

How would you not be an asymptomatic (or very mildly symptomatic) superspreader in this case.  
 

It sounds like symptoms of hypochondria.

Its called risk control not pure theater, it also happens to be government policy for attendance at school, nothing is perfect protection but its important to reduce risk, simple logic to understand for most

Edited January 6, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Airalee]

49 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its called risk control not pure theater, it also happens to be government policy for attendance at school, nothing is perfect protection but its important to reduce risk, simple logic to understand for most

Risk control?  
 

Nonsense.  

 

That’s no different than having sex with a prostitute 7 days a week but only using a condom on Sundays.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Risk control?  
 

Nonsense.  

 

That’s no different than having sex with a prostitute 7 days a week but only using a condom on Sundays.

Yes risk control...............nothing to do with sex, like I said, its part of government policy not only here but in just about every country in the world, like it or lump it that is reality. Having a daughter I lump it as she needs to go to school and going to attend events that I want to also require it.

[Caldera]

I'm all for taking sensible steps to avoid the risk of infection, but doing an ATK test several times a week without having any symptoms is way over the top for me. If that were to become a requirement for me personally, I'd stay at home instead. 

[Gsxrnz]

The likes of Scott, Shackleton, Hilary, Amundsen et al just didn't know how risk-free their lives were.

 

They didn't know what risk was compared to the real world dangers of the intrepid modern human race. 

[coolcarer]

36 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I'm all for taking sensible steps to avoid the risk of infection, but doing an ATK test several times a week without having any symptoms is way over the top for me. If that were to become a requirement for me personally, I'd stay at home instead. 

Depends what your lifestyle or work commitments are really. I’m a teacher and need to self test weekly, in addition to those we also get random tests done sometimes at school. My passion outside of work is football and to play against other teams in league matches we also need to take tests. 
 

It becomes part of normal living when there is little choice. If I lived in a village somewhere and didn’t go out to mix with others then obviously there would be little point testing so regularly.

[Polar Bear]

This is purely anecdotal, but 8 members of my family in the UK spent a day together shortly before Christmas. 6 adults, 2 kids. Everyone vaxed except 1 kid who was too young. 4 adults had boosters. All tested negative with ATK on the day. A day or so later, one adult had symptoms, tested positive with PCR. Within a week, all but one was positive. It seems like that one was pure luck, especially as she was the one most at risk, and the reason why everyone took a test on the day, so as not to pass it on to her. Or maybe people were being particularly cautious about keeping their distance from her for the same reason. I don't know. It was almost certainly Omicron because patient 0 had come up from London where it was already rife.

 

One of the adults also passed it on to his flatmate before knowing he had it. Flatmate was double vaxed, and had had COVID (presumably Delta) in September. Everyone who caught it was relatively young and healthy. None of them needed medical treatment though some felt pretty rough for a few days. Half didn't start testing positive on ATK until several days after they were positive on PCR. One never tested positive on ATK.

If you are high risk, all you can do is keep away from people, and get a booster to increase your chances if you do get it. 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Polar Bear said:

This is purely anecdotal, but 8 members of my family in the UK spent a day together shortly before Christmas. 6 adults, 2 kids. Everyone vaxed except 1 kid who was too young. 4 adults had boosters. All tested negative with ATK on the day. A day or so later, one adult had symptoms, tested positive with PCR. Within a week, all but one was positive. It seems like that one was pure luck, especially as she was the one most at risk, and the reason why everyone took a test on the day, so as not to pass it on to her. Or maybe people were being particularly cautious about keeping their distance from her for the same reason. I don't know. It was almost certainly Omicron because patient 0 had come up from London where it was already rife.

 

One of the adults also passed it on to his flatmate before knowing he had it. Flatmate was double vaxed, and had had COVID (presumably Delta) in September. Everyone who caught it was relatively young and healthy. None of them needed medical treatment though some felt pretty rough for a few days. Half didn't start testing positive on ATK until several days after they were positive on PCR. One never tested positive on ATK.

If you are high risk, all you can do is keep away from people, and get a booster to increase your chances if you do get it. 
 

 

It seems that Omicron is pretty much unavoidable unless we completely isolate.....

 

At which point does everyone, governments and policy makers included throw in the towel and just say... OK, For most people Omicron is a cold, potentially more severe than than a regular cold... but like Coronaviruses Alpha and Beta, its here with us now.... 

 

 

 

[samtam]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It seems that Omicron is pretty much unavoidable unless we completely isolate.....

 

At which point does everyone, governments and policy makers included throw in the towel and just say... OK, For most people Omicron is a cold, potentially more severe than than a regular cold... but like Coronaviruses Alpha and Beta, its here with us now.... 

 

 

 

I agree. Rather hoping there would be the clarity to self-isolate rather than be hospitalised from the PM today, but have not as yet, (at noon), seen any reports of what was announced, if anything, after the 9 am meeting/press conference.