Would these ICE exports by any chance be mostly Toyota's?

 

 

O&A about next, hope I can find a CS ... 

Total first 2 days, <500 kms

 

25 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

O&A about next, hope I can find a CS ... 

Total first 2 days, <500 kms

 

Finding diesel is much simpler.  Just saying. 

30 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Finding diesel is much simpler.  Just saying. 

And cost ~2X as much, just saying ...

... 340 kms using 91, (MG ICE), ~฿730

... 340 kms @ < ฿370, actUally ~฿280, since Sat & Sun, and if use PEA, having off peak rates.

See weblink below for full article...partial quote also below.  Lots of data/stats in the article.   One such stat is: The accident frequency for EVs is 74.8%, compared with 47.2% for ICE vehicles, indicating that EVs are nearly 1.6 times more likely to generate claims....

 

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/3165294/ev-insurance-demand-surges-amid-expensive-claims

 

EV insurance demand surges amid expensive claims

Underwriting pressure likely to raise premiums

PUBLISHED : 29 Dec 2025 at 07:00

WRITER: Nuntawun Polkuamdee

 

 

Thailand's electric vehicle (EV) insurance market is expanding at an unprecedented pace, tracking rapid growth in EV sales dominated by Chinese brands, which have overtaken Japanese automakers in market share.

 

The strong growth momentum is accompanied by persistent underwriting pressure, with insurers facing loss ratios exceeding 80% and repair costs 50% higher than those for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, reflecting upward pressure on insurance premiums in 2026.

 

According to data from the Thai General Insurance Association (TGIA) and Thai Insurance Research and Development Co (TIRD), EV insurance risks are significantly higher than those of conventional vehicles, driven by greater accident frequency, more severe damage per claim, and rising exposure to flood-related losses as extreme weather events become more frequent.......

 

********************************

 

ADAC (The German Breakdown Service) breakdown statistics 2025: Electric cars far more reliable than combustion engine vehicles. 159 model series examined / Toyota with conspicuous breakdown rates

https://presse.adac.de/meldungen/adac-ev/technik/adac-pannenstatistik-2025.html

 

"Among vehicles aged two to four years, combustion engine vehicles experience two and a half times as many breakdowns as electric cars. The breakdown rate for combustion engine vehicles in 2024 was 9.4 breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles, while for electric cars it was only 3.8."

 

"Several Toyota models, which have historically been considered reliable, proved particularly susceptible to breakdowns. The model with the highest breakdown rate is the Toyota C-HR from the 2020 registration year, with 63.1 breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles. Other Toyota models also showed weaknesses in terms of reliability (Toyota RAV4, Yaris, and Yaris Cross)"

26 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

ADAC (The German Breakdown Service) breakdown statistics 2025: Electric cars far more reliable than combustion engine vehicles. 159 model series examined / Toyota with conspicuous breakdown rates

https://presse.adac.de/meldungen/adac-ev/technik/adac-pannenstatistik-2025.html

 

"Among vehicles aged two to four years, combustion engine vehicles experience two and a half times as many breakdowns as electric cars. The breakdown rate for combustion engine vehicles in 2024 was 9.4 breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles, while for electric cars it was only 3.8."

 

"Several Toyota models, which have historically been considered reliable, proved particularly susceptible to breakdowns. The model with the highest breakdown rate is the Toyota C-HR from the 2020 registration year, with 63.1 breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles. Other Toyota models also showed weaknesses in terms of reliability (Toyota RAV4, Yaris, and Yaris Cross)"

 

Too funny, and really shouldn't surprise anyone.  Possibly a couple 1000 extra moving parts and a fuel that degrades everything it touches.  Even the exhaust from the engine degrades everything it touches, including our lungs.

 

And people still believe that ... 'well it's a Toyota', reliability BS  

 

Can't fix stupid   

Now although I'm now an EV guy with my 2023 BYD Atto...I'm also still an ICE guy with my 2009 Toyota Fortuner.....I'm living on both world for now.    But probably in a few years I'll sell my Fortuner and get a 2nd EV and totally be in the EV world.

 

What I find in that ADAC article that tends to make breakdowns look a lot more serious and very frequent for ICEV is approx half of the total breakdowns for both ICE and EV were their 12V battery.  You know, the ubiquitous 12V battery that's been around as long as any of us reading this. 

 

12V low voltage batteries, especially lead-acid batteries, simply don't last much longer that 2 to 4 years....it just the nature of lead-acid battery chemistry....they'll can go bad even if lightly used and kept charged.    And the new 12V "LFP" batteries last longer but frequently they fail around around the 4 year point...sometimes even sooner when they start showing "swelling" signs.  The 12V battery in EV or ICEV is still a reliability issue and causes many roadway/driveway breakdowns in both ICEV and EV....and will continue to cause many breakdowns whether it's in an ICEV with thousands of moving parts or an EV with around 50 moving parts.   

 

When excluding the 12V battery breakdowns from the ICE and EV stats it appears around 5 breakdowns per 1000 iCEV and 2 breakdowns for 1000 EV.   A person could still jump-up and say look, ICEV breakdown 2.5 times more than EV!  Yea, that's right but 5 breakdown per 1000 ICEV is still only 0.5%.   I don't know about you, but in my Thailand travels I rarely seen any "car" broke down along the road....but I do frequently see small and large trucks broke down usually for a blown tire because of the heavy loads carried, tires being bald/old, etc.  

 

Breakdowns on the road seem to be pretty rare now days for passenger cars and even trucks used mainly as passenger vehicles except when carrying an occasional household item..  BUT, this is not saying ICEV don't have higher "maintenance" problems than EV....problems that still allow the car to be driven but the owner also knows he needs to get it fixed soon/before the next govt inspection requirement.  

 

I could go on to give my opinion on "EV maintenance" primarily being a "captured audience" right now in needing to use a dealership repair center due to warranty provisions and replacement parts availability, but that's a discussion for a later time.  

 

Quote

The breakdown rate for combustion engine vehicles in 2024 was 9.4 breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles, while for electric cars it was only 3.8........As in previous years, a defective starter battery was the main cause of breakdowns. It accounted for 44.9 percent of all breakdowns in 2024. When differentiating between drive types, combustion engine vehicles show better results with regard to 12V...Batteries are more prone to failure. While the percentage of breakdowns caused by the starter battery in electric cars is higher at 50.5% compared to combustion engine vehicles (44.6%)....

 

On 12/28/2025 at 12:06 AM, KhunLA said:

And cost ~2X as much, just saying ...

... 340 kms using 91, (MG ICE), ~฿730

... 340 kms @ < ฿370, actUally ~฿280, since Sat & Sun, and if use PEA, having off peak rates.

For me I'll continue using old fashioned fuel. I don't track money spent.

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

For me I'll continue using old fashioned fuel. I don't track money spent.

I’ll pm my banking details for you… 🙄

2 hours ago, HighPriority said:

I’ll pm my banking details for you… 🙄

Why?

12 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

For me I'll continue using old fashioned fuel. I don't track money spent.

 

I've been using LPG for about 20 Years. If I stand behind my truck it reminds me of a soft ice-cream van.

Yet again the traffic lights turn green and I ask myself:

Where is all this much vaunted electric car acceleration?

The queue of cars behind this electric fantastic are at risk of being out dragged by Lung in his vintage Toyota or the ten-wheeled truck.

🤦🏼‍♂️

Short O&A, only 1195 kms, cost of petrol vs electrons ...

... ~ ฿2600 for petrol @ ฿30.48 / L (14 kpL & 85.357 L)

... < ฿1295 for electron @ ฿8 / kWh, never paid that, and 2X paid ฿5.9 / kWh

13 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Short O&A, only 1195 kms, cost of petrol vs electrons ...

... ~ ฿2600 for petrol @ ฿30.48 / L (14 kpL & 85.357 L)

... < ฿1295 for electron @ ฿8 / kWh, never paid that, and 2X paid ฿5.9 / kWh

Energy cost pales into insignificance compared to depreciation.

But congratulations — with your plan of never selling your car, you’ve personally solved the biggest ownership problem in motoring worldwide.

Everyone else is still stuck in reality.
Death, taxes, and depreciation wait for no man.

Can’t fix stupid.

22 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Energy cost pales into insignificance compared to depreciation.

But congratulations — with your plan of never selling your car, you’ve personally solved the biggest ownership problem in motoring worldwide.

Everyone else is still stuck in reality.
Death, taxes, and depreciation wait for no man.

Can’t fix stupid.

Petrol saving surely offset the depreciation. We averaged 17k kms, the past 3 yrs of ownership.

Cost per year, petrol vs electrons ...

... ฿37,011 - Petrol (17k kms driven)

... ฿18,500 - using CS @ ฿8 / kWh, overpriced, besides, locally, we get 360 kms per charge

... ฿11,575 - using PEA/MEA @ ฿5 / kWh, charging at home

... ฿0 charging with excess solar, as we do (if all local kms)

Times that by 10 or 20 years, adds up, way past the difference in depreciation, especially after 10 yrs, and both ICEV & BEV, won't be worth much at all. BEV cost less to buy in, spec for spec, and perform better.

There is no comparison which is the better long term value, at 8-10- or more years of owning. The more you drive over 17k kms a year, the more you save owning a BEV.

Our car will outlast me for sure, and possibly my wife, 22 yrs younger. Let that sink in, If not,the savings will pay for the next car. Where the cost of petrol, will have cost the price of a new car.

As you say, 'You can't fix stupid'

Looks like in 2025 EVs outsold ICE in the "ECO/Hatchback/Wagon B-segment (i.e., small cars)" by quite a bit. See below autolife weblink for full article.

https://autolifethailand.tv/sales-report-eco-b-segment-hatchback-ice-hev-bev-overall-2025-thailand/

The transition from ICE to BEV in Thailand is slowly and steadily moving forward especially in the medium and small size vehicle segments.

https://autolifethailand.tv/sales-report-c-suv-cd-suv-overall-2025-thailand/

O&A, Cost comparison … again

 

But, a short, weekender version.  3 nights, so long weekend type outing most people take.  Not too far, and total of 722 kms R/T. PKK - Krung Thep – Samut Songkhram – PKK

Advantage of short outing, 500 kms (1^st 250 & last 250 kms) charged at home, leaving @ 100%, returning ~20%. Really cuts the total cost, and best feature of a BEV, as gets us out of the house more often, since so inexpensive to explore locally (no overnight) or pop up to Krung Thep to visit daughter, and make a overnight to or from.

฿1300 Saved for us, so one night hotel stay, basically free.

Petrol … 722 kms / 14 kpL X ฿30 = ฿1547

BEV … 722 – 500 = 222 kms = ฿240

CS … 30kWh X ฿8 = ฿240 (w/solar)

or ...

฿240 + ฿340 = ฿670

CS 222 + 500 PEA/MEA @ ฿5 kWh

Contrary to what some have been predicting, EV battery life is proving to be much better than expected.

How long do electric car batteries last? A lot longer than expected

The firm analysed 8,000 EVs across 36 manufacturers, aged between 0 and 12 years and ranging from 0 to more than 160,000 miles. Experts discovered that the average state of health (SoH) of the batteries, all ages considered, was 95 per cent – well above the 70 per cent usually stipulated by manufacturer warranties as the grounds for battery replacement.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/368998/electric-car-batteries-are-lasting-lot-longer-expected

For those interested in getting a PHEV you might want to read below article/report...and also take a look at below Youtube video which talks about the report.

With a PHEV you are probably not getting anything close to fuel savings advertised and that you hoped for when buying the PHEV because the petrol-powered engine actually runs more often than you are aware of....sometimes running in EV Mode only.

Before I thought that when a PHEV is in the "EV Only" mode and assuming it had battery charge remaining that it would indeed run off the battery only, but that's not how it works unless maybe you are driving conservatively on a flat road with no stopping.

https://electriccarsreport.com/2026/02/phevs-use-more-fuel-than-advertised-major-study-finds/#:~:text=The%20Study:%20Real%2DWorld%20Data,What%20is%20this?

PHEVs Use More Fuel Than Advertised, Major Study Finds

The promise of the Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) has always been a seductive one: the “best of both worlds.” You get enough all-electric range for the daily commute and a combustion engine to kill range anxiety for weekend road trips. On paper, it’s the perfect bridge to a fully electric future.

But new real-world data suggests that promise doesn’t always hold up.

A comprehensive study by Germany’s Fraunhofer Institute found that many PHEVs consume significantly more fuel in everyday driving than their official lab ratings suggest — in some cases, up to three times more.

The Study: Real-World Data From 1 Million PHEVs...... (go to above weblink for full article).

A Youtube video talking above PHEV study.

AI query result

Recent studies analyzing data from approximately 1 million plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) in Europe have revealed significant discrepancies between official fuel efficiency ratings and real-world usage

. While manufacturers often claim extremely low fuel consumption, the study shows that in practice, these vehicles consume significantly more fuel than advertised, particularly when they are not regularly recharged by their owners.

Key Findings from the 1 Million Vehicle Study:

• Fuel Consumption: Real-world fuel consumption for PHEVs is often three times higher than the official laboratory-tested figures.

• Performance: Instead of the 1–2 liters per 100 km promised, actual usage is closer to 6 liters per 100 km, similar to conventional cars, according to a report from the Fraunhofer Institute.

• Charging Habits: The research suggests that many drivers, particularly those with company cars, do not charge their vehicles frequently, leading to higher fuel consumption.

• Inefficiency in Practice: The study indicated that some luxury brands, such as Porsche, showed particularly high fuel usage, with some vehicles operating on electric power for only a tiny fraction of their total mileage.

Mercedes PHEV's will run in EV only mode without using the ICE engine providing you don't push the accelerator past the haptic feedback point and don't run out of electrons.

I'm not sure about other cars, but you can drive a Mercedes PHEV as if it were a full EV.

I believe all come with lifetime warranties on battery, controller & motor

Ouch!!!!....this will probably help "EV" sales. But it will probably hurt "overall sales (ICE/Hybrid/EV combined)" as it will make many people feel uneasy about the economy, their job, buying a big ticket item like a vehicle.

Fuel prices in Bangkok area as of 26 March 2026.

Petrol price is going to push a few to BEV. High price, and realization, you can't tell when & why it's going to fluctuate out of the 30 THB a liter price zone. Will it be subsidized or frozen in the future and for how long.

Cost comparison for BEV, our MG ZS EV vs our ZS ICE version, getting 14 km per liter. Full charge will get ~350 kms around town. For cost comparison ...

Petrol price for 91 last month

350 kms ÷ 14 kpl = 25 L X ฿30 / L = ฿750, for 91

now today's comparison:

350 kms ÷ 14 kpl = 25 L X ฿40 / L = ฿1000 ... 91

350 kms (46.3kWh X ฿5) = ฿231.5 ... PEA /MEA charging at home

350 kms (46.3kWh X ฿8) = ฿370.4 ... CS cost if can't charge at home

And if you drive 17k kms a year like we do, it starts to add up.

17k ÷ 350 = 48.57 = ฿48,570 ... Petrol @ ฿40 (฿35.6k @ ฿30)

48.57 = ฿11,244 @ home

48.57 = ฿17,990 @ CS

OK, 91 @ 44+/- now. You thinking about some kind of BEV ?

Just came back for Hua Hin, overnighter, 275 kms R/T, got with 20% reserve. Charging now with excess for 2 hr, then tomorrow charge some more. Got the E-MC if need to go anywhere.

Petrol cost for same 275 kms, using ICE version of MG ZS ... ฿864

Our hotel only cost ฿700, and had a pool.

If charging with PEA / MEA, cost would be ... ~฿185

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

OK, 91 @ 44+/- now. You thinking about some kind of BEV ?

Just came back for Hua Hin, overnighter, 275 kms R/T, got with 20% reserve. Charging now with excess for 2 hr, then tomorrow charge some more. Got the E-MC if need to go anywhere.

Petrol cost for same 275 kms, using ICE version of MG ZS ... ฿864

Our hotel only cost ฿700, and had a pool.

If charging with PEA / MEA, cost would be ... ~฿185

Honestly (although I don't have one yet) I love EVs, I think they drive better, are better to travel in, are better value, have better tech, and they are undoubtedly better than ICE vehicles except for certain specific use cases which we all know about.

However your constant smugness about your choice really turns people off. You have to reply all the time to say you are smarter, you are saving more money (especially with your solar). Be more like the other EV owners on here: humble, gracious, honest, it would go a long way.

3 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Honestly (although I don't have one yet) I love EVs, I think they drive better, are better to travel in, are better value, have better tech, and they are undoubtedly better than ICE vehicles except for certain specific use cases which we all know about.

However your constant smugness about your choice really turns people off. You have to reply all the time to say you are smarter, you are saving more money (especially with your solar). Be more like the other EV owners on here: humble, gracious, honest, it would go a long way.

Actually, just trying to inspire you. Point out the savings, with your everyday use, commute, but also, local exploring.

Which we do quite a bit, and every time we do, we save a few 100 baht. Reality is, we barely need to drive 10 kms a week. Yea, about 500 kms a year. Yet we put on average 17k kms since owning. A lot of that due to local driving doesn't cost any thing with solar.

Even if charging with PEA / MEA, still about 25% the cost of petrol. One of the best things about EV, gets me out of the house, when I normally wouldn't with an ICEV. There's noting in Hua Hin I'd pay 800 baht see, but since it's free, why not.

Unfortunate you think I'm being smug (I need to google, or not), but it's been 3 years since more than a few have hit the market, and no time like now. Prices are still the same or lower than lower spec'd ICEV. Won't last forever.

This month, especially, along with the past, shows we have not control of petrol cost. PEA / MEA are far steadier, and if spring for solar, even an inexpensive 5 or 10kW system, no battery, and you'd save 1000s of baht a month.

HAPPY TRAVELS