China-made diesel locomotives handed over to Thailand

[Albert Zweistein]

19 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Nice deflection.

 

Sorry, it is actually happening after decades of little to no investment.

 

Sir, I think this topic is about the delivery of Chinese diesel locs to Thailand and not about the offer of two second hand submarines nor about an aircraft carrier that was purchased 27 years ago (incredibly relevant to this story!), and to be honest I really don't care about how and on what the military spend their budget.

I wonder how it feels to be a copycat.????

[Albert Zweistein]

20 hours ago, sirineou said:

And this is for a 50 km stretch of the 4070 miles of the SRT line. 

"Thailand’s Transport Ministry has asked the national rail operator to assess the feasibility of electrifying a train route in the far south. A secretary with the ministry says the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) will evaluate whether electrification of the 50km link is viable. "

 

" The estimated cost of the electric connection is almost THB8 billion. This section of the southern Thailand line is part of a greater project also under consideration." 

https://12go.asia/en/post/2652/thai-rail-operator-considers-electrification-of-southern-link

Now think about it, How many trains travel the SRT line every day? How much pollution does every diesel electric engine contributes to the environment?

Is it more than three or four tractor tailor trucks ?

 Now put your self in an administration position and you have to make a decision concerning the allocation of limited recourses. In a country where pollution from burning is such that some times you cant go outside or see far, do you spend billions of these recourses to  remove the equivalent of a few tractor tailor trucks? 

would this be a cost affective solution? is the cost/benefited ratio positive? 

A huge step forward, 50 KM out of 4070 Miles. It is exactly as I mentioned before, assess feasability and under consideration. A lot of talk but nothing happens.

Does the cost/benifit ration always have to be positive in the struggle against global warming ? 

It reminds me of an English proverb ; it's the penny that makes the pound. This also should apply in fighting pollution, remember we have only one planet.

[sirineou]

36 minutes ago, Albert Zweistein said:

Does the cost/benifit ration always have to be positive in the struggle against global warming ? 

You are missing the point, The point is that given Thailand's topography, If 50 km would cost 8 billion bht , you can imagine how much it would cost to electrify 4070 km.  

In a world of limited recourses iyou always have to do a cost/benefit assessment. .(biggest bang for your buck)

I don't disagree with you on the need for Thailand to do more toward mitigating pollution., or that global warming is a problem that need's  to be addressed, 

 But as I said spending billions to eliminate  less than a dozen diesel generators, would do little towards that goal,  and burn money better spend elsewhere. 

t 

 

  

[seedy]

23 hours ago, jacko45k said:

What fertilizer. This is Thailand, have you seen the state of most vehicles and their idea of maintenance. And being a fellow road user I can assure you they play their part in accidents. 

Some people must wander around Thailand with their heads stuck in a KFC bucket!

The fuel we get to people can be electricity and it comes down wires you know. 

Check your memory Jill. Driver fault....

Buriram ....

 

Where and when was that pic taken ?. Which driver at fault ?. Looks like small truck struck tractor trailer.

Try your electricity on a trip to Mae Hong Son

EV wide spread adoption is decades away, and will remain so until infrastructure is in place, also decades away.

Another EV fanatic with no grasp on reality

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, seedy said:

Where and when was that pic taken ?. Which driver at fault ?. Looks like small truck struck tractor trailer.

Try your electricity on a trip to Mae Hong Son

EV wide spread adoption is decades away, and will remain so until infrastructure is in place, also decades away.

Another EV fanatic with no grasp on reality

'Where' is written there, 'when' is far far less than the 20 years you claim to have been paying attention. The tanker ran into the back of a truck. 

Another mouth with no eyes. 

Electricity is far and wide in Thailand....easier to move around than hydrocarbons. Just wish we could move cement down wires and get those dangerous cement tankers off the roads too.. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by jacko45k

[Albert Zweistein]

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

You are missing the point, The point is that given Thailand's topography, If 50 km would cost 8 billion bht , you can imagine how much it would cost to electrify 4070 km.  

In a world of limited recourses iyou always have to do a cost/benefit assessment. .(biggest bang for your buck)

I don't disagree with you on the need for Thailand to do more toward mitigating pollution., or that global warming is a problem that need's  to be addressed, 

 But as I said spending billions to eliminate  less than a dozen diesel generators, would do little towards that goal,  and burn money better spend elsewhere. 

t 

 

  

First you stated 4070 MILES now it is 4070 KM, what is it ? just a slip of the keyboard ?

 

8 billion baht is cheap, only roughly 4,3 million EURO/KM, peanuts to a self declared hub of everything that spends billion to submarines and F 35 jets. Is this what you mean by spending better elsewhere ?

 

What bothers me is the gaffers brawling about Thailand being the hub of EV's soon and meanwhile purchasing diesel driven and polluting locs from China.

[josephbloggs]

45 minutes ago, Albert Zweistein said:

8 billion baht is cheap, only roughly 4,3 million EURO/KM, peanuts to a self declared hub of everything 

So €17-18 billion to electrify the country, even though no country has ever done that and a majority of lines are seldom used.  You are beginning to sound quite ridiculous now.

 

Quote

What bothers me is the gaffers brawling about Thailand being the hub of EV's soon and meanwhile purchasing diesel driven and polluting locs from China.

They are replacing ancient 5-year old polluting locomotives with brand new low emission units.   A lot has changed in 50 years.  This is a massive step in the right direction and should be applauded.

You are basically saying Thailand shouldn't be able to promote EVs unless it has electrified it's whole rail network first?

Again you are beginning to sound quite ridiculous.

[ChC1]

On 2/5/2022 at 5:32 AM, josephbloggs said:

China has world class engineering and manufacturing - especially when it comes to trains - whether your racist preconceptions like it or not.  

You mean after stealing technology from Japan, UK, US, Germany and all other countries?

 

Do you know China forced Japan to give its technology in exchange for a high speed rail contract? Then now they are using the stolen technology to sell to third world countries?

 

Globalists must be so proud.

[sirineou]

9 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

First you stated 4070 MILES now it is 4070 KM, what is it ? just a slip of the keyboard ?

 

8 billion baht is cheap, only roughly 4,3 million EURO/KM, peanuts to a self declared hub of everything that spends billion to submarines and F 35 jets. Is this what you mean by spending better elsewhere ?

 

What bothers me is the gaffers brawling about Thailand being the hub of EV's soon and meanwhile purchasing diesel driven and polluting locs from China.

This is the last time I will reply to this  , because you seem to be missing the point. every time in this thread. 

Being American my mind is stuck in mile  mode. It km, not miles

The 8 Billion bht is for 50  km , not the whole 4070 , assuming that this amount applies for every 50km stretch (some could be more, others could be less) 

it would be 4070/50=81.4x8=651,2 billion dollars for the whole 4070  or at 33.3 bht per dollar =$ 19.5 billion dollars 

In comparison  In 2020, the value of  national budget for operation in Thailand  amounted to around 236 billion Thai baht. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1249519/thailand-national-budget-value-for-operation/

Please correct me if my math is faulty 

 

All to remove what amounts the pollution of the equivalent  of  a few tractor tailor trucks, 

 

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, ChC1 said:

You mean after stealing technology from Japan, UK, US, Germany and all other countries?

 

Do you know China forced Japan to give its technology in exchange for a high speed rail contract? Then now they are using the stolen technology to sell to third world countries?

 

Globalists must be so proud.

Oh wow, yeah, they forced Japan to sign a rail contract didn't they.  What a ridiculous comment.

 

Their very early high speed trains were built under technology transfer contracts with foreign companies.  These are common throughout the world across many industries.  It means they paid for the technology, they did not steal it nor did they force anyone to hand over their technology.   Since then (2007?) they have refined, improved and developed their own technology to the point that they are now a world leader.

Seriously, for ridiculous anti Chinese nonsense you have taken things to a new level.  

 

[seedy]

23 hours ago, jacko45k said:

'Where' is written there, 'when' is far far less than the 20 years you claim to have been paying attention. The tanker ran into the back of a truck. 

Another mouth with no eyes. 

Electricity is far and wide in Thailand....easier to move around than hydrocarbons. Just wish we could move cement down wires and get those dangerous cement tankers off the roads too.. 

Good idea. Lets rip up all the roads, all the rail tracks, go back to the days of ox carts and boats on the rivers. Bamboo houses too.

Do you live in a concrete house ? Bet you do. How did the concrete get there? 555

All EV all the time all over the place ! What an inane post !

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, ChC1 said:

You mean after stealing technology from Japan, UK, US, Germany and all other countries?

 

Do you know China forced Japan to give its technology in exchange for a high speed rail contract? Then now they are using the stolen technology to sell to third world countries?

 

Globalists must be so proud.

Don't any large purchases from Boeing come with such similar arrangements? 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, seedy said:

Good idea. Lets rip up all the roads, all the rail tracks, go back to the days of ox carts and boats on the rivers. Bamboo houses too.

Do you live in a concrete house ? Bet you do. How did the concrete get there? 555

All EV all the time all over the place ! What an inane post !

You seem to lack reading comprehension..... not sure where I suggested ripping up roads and rail tracks (I never did, you made that up). In fact I was advocating electric trains (rather than diesel ones) which by the way, will still need tracks. EVs still need roads too, so that makes your comment further silliness. 

 

What my house is made of is not relevant, but I power it with ELECTRICITY... which comes down wires.... 

Thailand obtaining diesel locomotives is the topic, that is what is a 'going backwards'.... . 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies about fuel tankers have been removed. 

[Albert Zweistein]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

This is the last time I will reply to this  , because you seem to be missing the point. every time in this thread. 

Being American my mind is stuck in mile  mode. It km, not miles

The 8 Billion bht is for 50  km , not the whole 4070 , assuming that this amount applies for every 50km stretch (some could be more, others could be less) 

it would be 4070/50=81.4x8=651,2 billion dollars for the whole 4070  or at 33.3 bht per dollar =$ 19.5 billion dollars 

In comparison  In 2020, the value of  national budget for operation in Thailand  amounted to around 236 billion Thai baht. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1249519/thailand-national-budget-value-for-operation/

Please correct me if my math is faulty 

 

All to remove what amounts the pollution of the equivalent  of  a few tractor tailor trucks, 

 

Sir, sorry if I have upset you with the KM/miles mix up but your math is indeed faulty as you mix up baht with dollars.

Besides I never mentioned they should electrify the entire 4070 kms at once, if they do it in say 10 years it should be affordable even for a country like Thailand but we have to start somewhere to save this planet. Americans are not very aware of this and particularly not the trump voters.

It's you mentioning a few tractor tailor trucks, I disagree with that but I see we never get to agree to each other so I suggest we burry the tomahawk and smoke a peace pipe

[Albert Zweistein]

19 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So €17-18 billion to electrify the country, even though no country has ever done that and a majority of lines are seldom used.  You are beginning to sound quite ridiculous now.

 

They are replacing ancient 5-year old polluting locomotives with brand new low emission units.   A lot has changed in 50 years.  This is a massive step in the right direction and should be applauded.

You are basically saying Thailand shouldn't be able to promote EVs unless it has electrified it's whole rail network first?

Again you are beginning to sound quite ridiculous.

It's easy to call everything you disagree with as ridiculous, besides it's not very pollite.

 

I never mentioned they should electrify the entire country but it's doable over a stretch of say 10 years.

 

Replacing 5 year old polluting locs because a lot has changed in 50 years ? Are you on Chang ?

 

Again I am not basically saying Thailand shouldn't be able to promote EV's, these are your words.

 

I've spent my entire working life in marine diesel engines so you don't have to tell me how polluting or not polluting they are and how much has changed in 50 years or do you mean 5 years ?

 

[seedy]

Den Chai Mekong  rail line looks like it will go ahead.

Thank God the Thai Gov't will not pour money into making it electric. Good place to try out the new locomotives.

Search BKK post Northern Double Track railway for info

Other info here - https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/Infrastructure Development Plan by Mr. Chaiwat Thongkamkoon (EN)_5b7f83df1eff2.pdf

[CLW]

17 hours ago, ChC1 said:

You mean after stealing technology from Japan, UK, US, Germany and all other countries?

 

Do you know China forced Japan to give its technology in exchange for a high speed rail contract? Then now they are using the stolen technology to sell to third world countries?

 

Globalists must be so proud.

Lol, I'm glad they "stole" the German Transrapid Maglev technology and built at least one commercial track with it.

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

Sir, sorry if I have upset you with the KM/miles mix up but your math is indeed faulty as you mix up baht with dollars.

Besides I never mentioned they should electrify the entire 4070

You did not upset me at all. What gave you an indication that I was upset?

and I did not mix up Baht with dollars , I simply divided the Baht  amount by the current exchange rate of 33.2 and also gave  the amount in dollars  for those who might not be able to get their head around a Bht quote. 

As to not electrifying the entire 4070 km , what deferens does it make, the cost is still proportional. as are the results. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by sirineou

[Albert Zweistein]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

You did not upset me at all. What gave you an indication that I was upset?

and I did not mix up Baht with dollars , I simply divided the Baht  amount by the current exchange rate of 33.2 and also gave  the amount in dollars  for those who might not be able to get their head around a Bht quote. 

As to not electrifying the entire 4070 km , what deferens does it make, the cost is still proportional. as are the results. 

I recalculated your maths in a different way and found out that yours are correct, sorry for that. Still I think it if the budget allocated for the purchase of submarines and F35 fighter jets would be used for it this will be a good step in the right direction, in my opinion purchasing  diesel locs is turning the clock backward.

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

I recalculated your maths in a different way and found out that yours are correct, sorry for that. Still I think it if the budget allocated for the purchase of submarines and F35 fighter jets would be used for it this will be a good step in the right direction, in my opinion purchasing  diesel locs is turning the clock backward.

I am sure better choices can be made , and pretty much any choice is better than buying submarines, but at the same time an argument can be made towards national defense.

I know little about Thailand's national defense needs and as such I try to stay away from talking about things that I know very little about, But tech is my wheel house, and without making an ass of myself and bragging about my education level in the sublet I feel qualified (though others might disagree LOL) to have an opinion on the subject at hand.     

[Grafting Ken]

Chinese products are great and come at bargain price.

I’ve got a Chinese welder, old Chinese mower and 2 Chinese workers in the shed.

together they all work like a dream!