Does Anyone Think That Putin Is Trying To Provoke A Nuclear War

[ozimoron]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:32 PM, Victornoir said:

USA has always wanted to maintain Russia as the No. 1 enemy and prevent any rapprochement with Western Europe.

In this strategy, they refused the Russian hand extended by Gorbachev with the end of the Berlin wall and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact.

On the contrary, they took advantage of the opportunity to advance their pawns and get closer to the designated enemy with NATO nuclear missiles.

They have long encouraged Zelensky to fight any Russian inclination in his own country, through the language boycott and through arms.

Now they claim to deplore this conflict when it is the direct consequence of their action.

The Russian "inclination" was a full blown invasion long before Zelenskiy arrived on the scene.

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[olfu]

Yes.

[bojo]

I don't believe that he is trying to provoke nuclear war, but he sure as hell wants the West to believe that................................................................However, I believe everything that Putin is doing is about his legacy and the fact that he is now quite old and is fast approachng his 'use by date'.

He may (generously giving him the benefit of doubt here) have asked himself 'what have i done on behalf of Russia and it's people?' and came me to the conclusion that the answer was 'not alot' .................................In his eyes he needs a favourable and lasting legacy, hence the situation now..........................When finally cornered and not offered an 'out'; will he push the button?........................................... He will know that his legacy will be trashed if he is instrumental in starting the 'end of the world' so to speak, but if he was seen to be defending against nuclear attack, (false flag one will do nicely thank you), then perhaps in his eyes, his legacy would remain intact.................................................

[moogradod]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:02 PM, Victornoir said:

USA has always wanted to maintain Russia as the No. 1 enemy and prevent any rapprochement with Western Europe.

In this strategy, they refused the Russian hand extended by Gorbachev with the end of the Berlin wall and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact.

On the contrary, they took advantage of the opportunity to advance their pawns and get closer to the designated enemy with NATO nuclear missiles.

They have long encouraged Zelensky to fight any Russian inclination in his own country, through the language boycott and through arms.

Now they claim to deplore this conflict when it is the direct consequence of their action.

There is definitely a core of truth in what you say. Nevertheless human values (lets make it simple: to be happy) are universal. There is no discussion about them.

 

And a nuclear strike or deployment of phosphor bombs on a home for the old age (as reported in the Swiss Press), killing of children etc. while they flee does not support that idea. I do honestly not believe that the NATO would do something like that out of the hunger for more power.

 

So I think it is not fair to compare the previous actions of NATO with what Putin does right now and say: Som nam na.

[heybruce]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:02 AM, Victornoir said:

USA has always wanted to maintain Russia as the No. 1 enemy and prevent any rapprochement with Western Europe.

In this strategy, they refused the Russian hand extended by Gorbachev with the end of the Berlin wall and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact.

On the contrary, they took advantage of the opportunity to advance their pawns and get closer to the designated enemy with NATO nuclear missiles.

They have long encouraged Zelensky to fight any Russian inclination in his own country, through the language boycott and through arms.

Now they claim to deplore this conflict when it is the direct consequence of their action.

Another poster blaming a war initiated by Russia on anyone but Russia.

 

What rapprochement with Russia has the West prevented?  What rapprochement has Russia sought?  When and how was the hand extended by Gorbachev refused?

 

The West does not actively recruit members for NATO.  Countries that think they need to join a defensive alliance for protection ask to join NATO.  If the consensus in NATO is that allowing the country in adds more benefits than risks to the alliance they are accepted.  Many countries that request admission, such as Ukraine, are years from being allowed in, if ever.

 

Russia/Putin thinks it has a right to dominate its neighbors.  That is why so many of its neighbors have sought NATO membership.

 

The NATO countries that have nuclear weapons (the U.S., U.K., and France) and the countries that allow them (Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands, and Belgium) have not changed with NATO expansion; they are all long-time NATO members.

Edited March 14, 2022 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:43 PM, bojo said:

I don't believe that he is trying to provoke nuclear war, but he sure as hell wants the West to believe that................................................................However, I believe everything that Putin is doing is about his legacy and the fact that he is now quite old and is fast approachng his 'use by date'.

He may (generously giving him the benefit of doubt here) have asked himself 'what have i done on behalf of Russia and it's people?' and came me to the conclusion that the answer was 'not alot' .................................In his eyes he needs a favourable and lasting legacy, hence the situation now..........................When finally cornered and not offered an 'out'; will he push the button?........................................... He will know that his legacy will be trashed if he is instrumental in starting the 'end of the world' so to speak, but if he was seen to be defending against nuclear attack, (false flag one will do nicely thank you), then perhaps in his eyes, his legacy would remain intact.................................................

Legacy? Schmegacy. 

He won't the Putin the Great, he'll be Putin the Terrible. 

He took a big gamble and it badly backfired. That is already clear. He's a dead dictator walking. What will it be? Internal coup? Libya style? To the Hague? 

[gargamon]

This is about to get a lot bigger.

 

China has expressed some openness to providing military and financial aid to Russia

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/14/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine/index.html

 

Expect WWIII as this escalates. I was planning on returning to Thailand in the near future but am currently seriously reconsidering as I don't want to be stranded there when the bombs start dropping...

[meatboy]

something needs to be done NOW,the world should not be sat on their bums as thousands of innocent mothers and their children get murdered,time for the daleks to take over EXSTERMINATE.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, gargamon said:

This is about to get a lot bigger.

 

China has expressed some openness to providing military and financial aid to Russia

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/14/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine/index.html

 

Expect WWIII as this escalates. I was planning on returning to Thailand in the near future but am currently seriously reconsidering as I don't want to be stranded there when the bombs start dropping...

Maybe.

I'm not yet convinced that China will actually get involved in that way. 

[pomchop]

Watch the new netflix series WW2....a good reminder that there are more losers than winners in brutal wars started by dictators and that many of the soldiers are simply fodder to be sacrificed.

 

Sadly about half of the USA still seems to support our own recent version of a coup making bone spur wannabe Hitler.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:04 PM, FritsSikkink said:

No

Could you put a donation link for all the countries which are being bombed by Western countries at the moment too?

or by countries supplied with the planes and munitions by the west to go bomb other countries.

[thaibeachlovers]

To answer the OP, no.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/15/2022 at 12:04 PM, meatboy said:

something needs to be done NOW,the world should not be sat on their bums as thousands of innocent mothers and their children get murdered,time for the daleks to take over EXSTERMINATE.

and your suggestion for the something that will not end in a nuclear holocaust is.......................................?

[heybruce]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To answer the OP, no.

But Putin is clearly trying to profit from nuclear blackmail.  Unfortunately things can get out of hand when that kind of game is being played.

Edited April 4, 2022 by heybruce

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, heybruce said:

But Putin is clearly trying to profit from nuclear blackmail.  Unfortunately things can get out of hand when that kind of game is being played.

Indeed, which is why it behooves western leaders to tread carefully.

I'm sure none of us want to see Europe destroyed in a nuclear war.

We need a Jack Kennedy now, but sadly all we've got is Joe. I hope he has really good advisors that he listens to.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:04 AM, FritsSikkink said:

Could you put a donation link for all the countries which are being bombed by Western countries at the moment too?

Whataboutery at its finest.????

[billd766]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:04 AM, FritsSikkink said:

No

Could you put a donation link for all the countries which are being bombed by Western countries at the moment too?

If you feel that strongly about it why not put your own donation link in?

[FritsSikkink]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If you feel that strongly about it why not put your own donation link in?

I don't feel about them, just don't like the hypocrisy. 

[Berkshire]

On 3/15/2022 at 5:58 AM, gargamon said:

This is about to get a lot bigger.

 

China has expressed some openness to providing military and financial aid to Russia

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/14/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine/index.html

 

Expect WWIII as this escalates. I was planning on returning to Thailand in the near future but am currently seriously reconsidering as I don't want to be stranded there when the bombs start dropping...

55555.....funny.  If you think that Russia will start dropping bombs, which is their likelier target, the US or Thailand?  I'm pretty sure it's not Thailand.

[billd766]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:12 AM, 1FinickyOne said:

If he wanted to provoke a nuclear war, he can probably do it by pressing one button... so, I say no.

 

until he presses that button - then I will change my answer.. 

A little song that you may appreciate if he does push that button. It originally came out in the 1950s or 60s.

 

 

 

or this one.  

 

 

[friendofthai]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:08 AM, finnsk said:

Everybody knows there is no winners if the biggest nuclear powers make war with nuclear weapens.

China will be the winner.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, which is why it behooves western leaders to tread carefully.

I'm sure none of us want to see Europe destroyed in a nuclear war.

We need a Jack Kennedy now, but sadly all we've got is Joe. I hope he has really good advisors that he listens to.

 

36 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

China will be the winner.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as a small or regional nuclear war.  Our over-populated world is critically dependent upon a technological infrastructure that will be destroyed by a few above ground nuclear explosions.  Panic, hunger, anarchy, collapse.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as a small or regional nuclear war.  Our over-populated world is critically dependent upon a technological infrastructure that will be destroyed by a few above ground nuclear explosions.  Panic, hunger, anarchy, collapse.

Are you confusing me with some other poster? I never mentioned a "small or regional nuclear war".

Far as I'm concerned once the first one falls it's all in.

 

BTW, IMO our world ( of humans ) is doomed from overpopulation anyway. Given the way we are destroying the forests and polluting the oceans into death it's just a matter of time. Gaia will be grateful when we are gone.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you confusing me with some other poster? I never mentioned a "small or regional nuclear war".

Far as I'm concerned once the first one falls it's all in.

 

BTW, IMO our world ( of humans ) is doomed from overpopulation anyway. Given the way we are destroying the forests and polluting the oceans into death it's just a matter of time. Gaia will be grateful when we are gone.

You posted:

 

"I'm sure none of us want to see Europe destroyed in a nuclear war. "

 

That would be a regional war.

[placeholder]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:58 AM, papa al said:

Who is more corrupt?

Putin,

Zelenski or Biden?

Prolly Putin, Biden , then Zelenski.

Zelenski is 9.8/10.

 

Thank you for your well-reasoned and evidence-rich comment.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/6/2022 at 2:40 AM, heybruce said:

You posted:

 

"I'm sure none of us want to see Europe destroyed in a nuclear war. "

 

That would be a regional war.

The nukes might only fall on Europe, but the effects would ruin us all, and I'm sure you know that.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:00 PM, friendofthai said:

China will be the winner.

Now, 50 years from now or even longer, IMO China is the next superpower to dominate the world. They are willing to play the long game, unlike us westerners that want everything NOW.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The nukes might only fall on Europe, but the effects would ruin us all, and I'm sure you know that.

Of course I know that.  That's why, after you posted about nukes falling on Europe, I posted:

 

On 4/5/2022 at 1:39 AM, heybruce said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as a small or regional nuclear war.  Our over-populated world is critically dependent upon a technological infrastructure that will be destroyed by a few above ground nuclear explosions.  Panic, hunger, anarchy, collapse.

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now, 50 years from now or even longer, IMO China is the next superpower to dominate the world. They are willing to play the long game, unlike us westerners that want everything NOW.

 

China's environmental record, on air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, over-fishing of seas, etc. don't indicate a well thought-out long game.