Private Health Cover increased by almost 100% in 2 years ?

[jerrymahoney]

Re WRLife you can always just talk them yourself:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1127060-ethical-participative-and-affordable-medical-insurance-for-expatriates/

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[malathione]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:26 AM, topt said:

Another poster started a thread, or mentioned in another thread, earlier last year that they had bumped his premium by 30% with no specific reason. I was also with them so was prepared in November when the renewal notice came through and had the same. This was a mid tier increase so not even going from one band to another. 

Their published rates for later tiers also jumped considerably and for me were no longer competitive.

 

They had in my mind been the best value of the International based insurers for most of their tiers but not anymore.

 

After comparing rates via AA Insure I switched to April International.

 

The relevance is that I am not aware of any other International provider increasing by anywhere near the same amounts.

They did that to me last year and emailed me to tell me about the increase this year, as well. All the while I'm still in the same age bracket. Asked AA to tell them to buzz off on my behalf. April doesn't want me; too many orthopedic surgeries for their taste, it seems.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

If you want cheap cover, there are people walking around with Pacific Cross low cover of 1m+ baht seem happy with that, a case of ignorance is bliss

If I wanted cheap cover I would self insure which is what I will be doing unless I find reasonable cover, e.g. 3-5 million baht for a reasonable amount for emergency cover only.

 

Anything under the above would be too low in my opinion, anything above seems to attract a premium cost.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Re WRLife you can always just talk them yourself:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1127060-ethical-participative-and-affordable-medical-insurance-for-expatriates/

 

Interesting, will check this mob out further as I have until the the month.

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

they don't cover you for less than 16 million USD, that is where the problem is, who wants 16 mil USD insurance, should insure one for less, and make the policy less, a win/win you would think.

Correction: Not 16 million USD, it is $1.2 million USD or about 42,000,000 million baht, like I said, who needs that amount of cover ?

[topt]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:19 PM, msbkk said:

The steep increase is also something which concerns me.

As I have already mentioned the OP is the 3rd poster that I am aware of that has been hit with increases above what would normally have been expected by David Shield/Passport Card.

 

A 30% mid banding increase, even if it can be negotiated down to 15%, does not bode well in the overall scheme of things especially for the future where premiums will normally rise more as you get older. 

 

I am also in that 60-65 bracket and with no pre existing it was not a hard decision to switch providers especially as I understand it potentially becomes harder after 65 to do so.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

If I wanted cheap cover I would self insure which is what I will be doing unless I find reasonable cover, e.g. 3-5 million baht for a reasonable amount for emergency cover only.

 

Anything under the above would be too low in my opinion, anything above seems to attract a premium cost.

 a friend of mine had relatively cheap Pacific Cross insurance, anyway recently discovered has cancer, flew straight home to UK, didn't even bother with the insurance for whatever reason

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, topt said:

I am also in that 60-65 bracket and with no pre existing it was not a hard decision to switch providers especially as I understand it potentially becomes harder after 65 to do so.

Respect.

 

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

 a friend of mine had relatively cheap Pacific Cross insurance, anyway recently discovered has cancer, flew straight home to UK, didn't even bother with the insurance for whatever reason

That's unfortunate, and something one has to weigh up when seeking insurance levels vs premiums sky rocketing as we age.

 

If one has enough savings aside, they can seek to mix it up with their health policy (deductibles), and hope for that smooth ride to save on the sky rocketing costs, and or return to their home country for treatment ?

 

It's a tough call, and as topt made it clear in a reply above, they are just going to keep going up regardless, nothing to do with age brackets anymore, I have seen annual increase and when I hit the (60-64) bracket it went right up, then at 61 again, fair suck of the sav I say. 

[Sheryl]

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Can I ask you a personal question Sheryl, you don't have to answer and I won't quote you.

 

How much cover do you think is enough and what kind of deductible ?

 

As mentioned earlier the broker thought 3.275 mil with April was too low and suggested 16 mil baht.

 

I can cover the first 325,000 without a problem, and can cover additional costs above the 3.275 mil if it ever came to that.

 

Paying out big $ for a policy as we age is becoming frustrating, hence the reason I am looking to reduce the big $'s for a policy, therefore putting some of the onus on myself, yes there is a risk involved, but at the same time, as you mentioned earlier 4 mil baht is the max you have heard of, and the most I have heard of is 1.5 mil baht.

yes but note that was for a single hospitalization, not total costs in a year.

 

I would say get at least 5 million baht in cover, preferrably more. You need to hedge for continued rises in health care costs in Thailand as it is difficult if nto impossible to increase your level of cover later on.

 

Say US$200k/year or more. Actually premiums don't vary as much as one might think between US$200k and $1 million a year cover, because  it is only rarely that the larger amount is paid out.

 

Deductible depends entirely on what you can afford to set aside for that purpioe, but in deciding that, be sure to consider not just right now but 10, 20 years hence because while a good policy guarantees lifetime renewal that does not include a guarantee of increasing your benefits i.e. if you later needed to decrease your deductible you might not be able to.  Also if you would be paying deductible out of savings consider if you are able to  replenish these amounts as spent, because if you develop a chronic condition (or have a series of misfortunes) this deductible will have to be paid every single year.

 

Also, run the different scenarios as at a certain point increased deductibles may be diminishing returns premium-wise - it is not a linear relationship.  US$500-$750 deductibles are usually well worth it but this may become  less the case as the deductible rises. One simple way to look at it is, how many years in a row would you need to have no claims in, to come out even? If a deductible of X lowers your premiums by a total of X within 1-2 years that is clearly worth it. But if it would take 3-5 years for premium savings to equal your deductible, less so. 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

yes but note that was for a single hospitalization, not total costs in a year.

 

I would say get at least 5 million baht in cover, preferrably more. You need to hedge for continued rises in health care costs in Thailand as it is difficult if nto impossible to increase your level of cover later on.

 

Say US$200k/year or more. Actually premiums don't vary as much as one might think between US$200k and $1 million a year cover, because  it is only rarely that the larger amount is paid out.

 

Deductible depends entirely on what you can afford to set aside for that purpioe, but in deciding that, be sure to consider not just right now but 10, 20 years hence because while a good policy guarantees lifetime renewal that does not include a guarantee of increasing your benefits i.e. if you later needed to decrease your deductible you might not be able to.  Also if you would be paying deductible out of savings consider if you are able to  replenish these amounts as spent, because if you develop a chronic condition (or have a series of misfortunes) this deductible will have to be paid every single year.

 

Also, run the different scenarios as at a certain point increased deductibles may be diminishing returns premium-wise - it is not a linear relationship.  US$500-$750 deductibles are usually well worth it but this may become  less the case as the deductible rises. One simple way to look at it is, how many years in a row would you need to have no claims in, to come out even? If a deductible of X lowers your premiums by a total of X within 1-2 years that is clearly worth it. But if it would take 3-5 years for premium savings to equal your deductible, less so. 

 

 

Gives me a lot to consider, thanks for the detailed reply, appreciated.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by 4MyEgo

[SooKee]

Always an interesting topic.  I'll be due for renewal before long and am currently with April International.  My renewal premium has gone up by 8% and will be around $2,400 so I decided to look around.  The premium hike I can stand and it's probably not unreasonable, what bugs me though is that I have to pay using a GBP credit card (I have looked at all, I think, other possible methods, the problem being their account is in USD in a French bank so all the payment systems are expecting a Euro payment) and each time I do that I get stung an extra £50 by the bank, on top of the premium, because of a non-sterling transaction.  April's payment system is garbage IMO with confusing messages and website re-direction that resulted in me being charged twice last year and then messing around chasing a refund.  Their communication sucks as well, or rather the lack of it does, and problems getting replies about anything!

I've had a look at HCI International which has quite a lot lower premium (£1,400 or so vs £2,000 for April) but I just worry that this is a bait premium to get you hooked after which it will sky-rocket, as another poster alluded to in another thread.  This thread puts me off David Shield (or whatever their name is now) and the WR Life I'm reticent about due to their newness.  

AA brokers suggested another policy to me, Globality, their 'You Genio World Plan' with very high coverage rates, a GBP policy and, while it's more expensive than April by £150, that drops to only £100 more for me as I can pay in GBP and take the non-sterling transaction hit.  As ever, one wonders what the increases will be in the future but that's an issue with every company, including April.  The Globality policy though provides far higher coverage and fewer restrictions than April for an only slightly increased price so I might look harder at that.  HCI I'm on the fence about.

[Chris.B]

8 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Always an interesting topic.  I'll be due for renewal before long and am currently with April International.  My renewal premium has gone up by 8% and will be around $2,400 so I decided to look around.  The premium hike I can stand and it's probably not unreasonable, what bugs me though is that I have to pay using a GBP credit card (I have looked at all, I think, other possible methods, the problem being their account is in USD in a French bank so all the payment systems are expecting a Euro payment) and each time I do that I get stung an extra £50 by the bank, on top of the premium, because of a non-sterling transaction.  April's payment system is garbage IMO with confusing messages and website re-direction that resulted in me being charged twice last year and then messing around chasing a refund.  Their communication sucks as well, or rather the lack of it does, and problems getting replies about anything!

I've had a look at HCI International which has quite a lot lower premium (£1,400 or so vs £2,000 for April) but I just worry that this is a bait premium to get you hooked after which it will sky-rocket, as another poster alluded to in another thread.  This thread puts me off David Shield (or whatever their name is now) and the WR Life I'm reticent about due to their newness.  

AA brokers suggested another policy to me, Globality, their 'You Genio World Plan' with very high coverage rates, a GBP policy and, while it's more expensive than April by £150, that drops to only £100 more for me as I can pay in GBP and take the non-sterling transaction hit.  As ever, one wonders what the increases will be in the future but that's an issue with every company, including April.  The Globality policy though provides far higher coverage and fewer restrictions than April for an only slightly increased price so I might look harder at that.  HCI I'm on the fence about.

What age are you?

 

[scubascuba3]

35 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Always an interesting topic.  I'll be due for renewal before long and am currently with April International.  My renewal premium has gone up by 8% and will be around $2,400 so I decided to look around.  The premium hike I can stand and it's probably not unreasonable, what bugs me though is that I have to pay using a GBP credit card (I have looked at all, I think, other possible methods, the problem being their account is in USD in a French bank so all the payment systems are expecting a Euro payment) and each time I do that I get stung an extra £50 by the bank, on top of the premium, because of a non-sterling transaction.  April's payment system is garbage IMO with confusing messages and website re-direction that resulted in me being charged twice last year and then messing around chasing a refund.  Their communication sucks as well, or rather the lack of it does, and problems getting replies about anything!

I've had a look at HCI International which has quite a lot lower premium (£1,400 or so vs £2,000 for April) but I just worry that this is a bait premium to get you hooked after which it will sky-rocket, as another poster alluded to in another thread.  This thread puts me off David Shield (or whatever their name is now) and the WR Life I'm reticent about due to their newness.  

AA brokers suggested another policy to me, Globality, their 'You Genio World Plan' with very high coverage rates, a GBP policy and, while it's more expensive than April by £150, that drops to only £100 more for me as I can pay in GBP and take the non-sterling transaction hit.  As ever, one wonders what the increases will be in the future but that's an issue with every company, including April.  The Globality policy though provides far higher coverage and fewer restrictions than April for an only slightly increased price so I might look harder at that.  HCI I'm on the fence about.

If you were able to get a Halifax Clarity card that April International payment would cost you zero. April seems the best out of those you mention

[SooKee]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

What age are you?

 

Closer than I'd like to be to 65 LOL.
 

 

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

If you were able to get a Halifax Clarity card that April International payment would cost you zero. April seems the best out of those you mention

Zero chance of that.  Been in SEA for 20 years or so and no intention of going back to the UK unless I have no choice.  Down to April or Globality I think.  Globality, though I'm still doing a full  side-by-side comparison, has much higher coverage, lower deductible, and less restrictions than April.  Not saying I haven't missed something though.  I can only read these forms for so long.

Edited April 9, 2022 by SooKee

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, SooKee said:

Always an interesting topic.  I'll be due for renewal before long and am currently with April International.  My renewal premium has gone up by 8% and will be around $2,400 so I decided to look around.  

I hear you loud and clear.

 

5 hours ago, SooKee said:

This thread puts me off David Shield (or whatever their name is now) and the WR Life I'm reticent about due to their newness.  

It did me too. It's actually put me off all insurers.

 

5 hours ago, SooKee said:

I get stung an extra £50 by the bank, on top of the premium

Yep, I also get stung 2.5% of the premium amount from the banks, international transfer and at their exchange rate which is usually lower than I can get elswhere.

 

5 hours ago, SooKee said:

but I just worry that this is a bait premium to get you hooked after which it will sky-rocket, as another poster alluded to in another thread.

This is what happened to me with David Shield, can't say I didn't see it coming, e.g. I expected it when I reached the 60-64 age bracket, but not every year as well, and not having made any claims in the 4 years that I had been with David Shield it certainly sucks, that said, it's not my problem if they switched underwriters, I still end up with the increases, and I see more coming from insurers due to Covid payouts to hospitals.

 

All of the above said, I have looked at April and compared all of their deductibles for the 3.725 mil and 16 mil policy, inpatient only and at the end of the day, it sucks, sure I might save 80,000 baht on what David Shield wanted to charge me for the next year i.e. 142,500 baht, if I take the 81,750 deductible with April, but that means if I have a claim in the 1st year, I will have paid what my previous premium would have been with David Shield, i.e. the 142,500 baht, albeit I would have been covered for my pre-existing condition, but not with April.

 

The above said, I could go as high as the 327,500 deductible for around 30,000 baht a year, but think about that for a minute, 327,500 out of pocket before they chip in for me to save 50,000 baht off of the premium, i.e. the policy for 16 mil would have cost me 80 odd thousand baht, and again my pre-existing condition wouldn't be covered.

 

At the end of the day with all the research I have done, I have decided to self insure as I have equal the amount to the higher policy cover in reserves, albeit it I wouldn't like to have to touch it in the event of an emergency, but lets' face it, in the 4 years that I have been insured, no claims, am fairly healthy, have a pre-existing condition that hasn't caused me any issues in 12 years, what are my chances of ending up in hospital, one would have to be unlucky, so I will park the money in the bank in a (separate online account) and put 250,000 baht per year which is basically what it would cost me for the family per year noting the wife's policy with another insurer goes into another age bracket this year so her premium goes up as well, and if we are unfortunate enough to have an emergency or require elective surgery then I will have to pay for it as opposed to being extorted, well that's how I feel about it, no reward for no claims, just up, up and up, no real loss to them as we age, take what they can until we jump ship due to the ups in the costs, up to you as they say here.

 

I do hope that we have smooth sailing for at least 8 years as that would have built up 2,000,000 baht in savings that the insurers would have taken, not including any increases due to age brackets and annual increases.

 

Wish me luck.

 

 

[Sheryl]

22 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I hear you loud and clear.

 

It did me too. It's actually put me off all insurers.

 

Yep, I also get stung 2.5% of the premium amount from the banks, international transfer and at their exchange rate which is usually lower than I can get elswhere.

 

This is what happened to me with David Shield, can't say I didn't see it coming, e.g. I expected it when I reached the 60-64 age bracket, but not every year as well, and not having made any claims in the 4 years that I had been with David Shield it certainly sucks, that said, it's not my problem if they switched underwriters, I still end up with the increases, and I see more coming from insurers due to Covid payouts to hospitals.

 

All of the above said, I have looked at April and compared all of their deductibles for the 3.725 mil and 16 mil policy, inpatient only 

 

You apparently did not look at April.International but rather April Thailand.

[4MyEgo]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

You apparently did not look at April.International but rather April Thailand.

Is there a difference as I checked April out with the broker and April direct, and yes they have a Bangkok address.

[scubascuba3]

33 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I hear you loud and clear.

 

It did me too. It's actually put me off all insurers.

 

Yep, I also get stung 2.5% of the premium amount from the banks, international transfer and at their exchange rate which is usually lower than I can get elswhere.

 

This is what happened to me with David Shield, can't say I didn't see it coming, e.g. I expected it when I reached the 60-64 age bracket, but not every year as well, and not having made any claims in the 4 years that I had been with David Shield it certainly sucks, that said, it's not my problem if they switched underwriters, I still end up with the increases, and I see more coming from insurers due to Covid payouts to hospitals.

 

All of the above said, I have looked at April and compared all of their deductibles for the 3.725 mil and 16 mil policy, inpatient only and at the end of the day, it sucks, sure I might save 80,000 baht on what David Shield wanted to charge me for the next year i.e. 142,500 baht, if I take the 81,750 deductible with April, but that means if I have a claim in the 1st year, I will have paid what my previous premium would have been with David Shield, i.e. the 142,500 baht, albeit I would have been covered for my pre-existing condition, but not with April.

 

The above said, I could go as high as the 327,500 deductible for around 30,000 baht a year, but think about that for a minute, 327,500 out of pocket before they chip in for me to save 50,000 baht off of the premium, i.e. the policy for 16 mil would have cost me 80 odd thousand baht, and again my pre-existing condition wouldn't be covered.

 

At the end of the day with all the research I have done, I have decided to self insure as I have equal the amount to the higher policy cover in reserves, albeit it I wouldn't like to have to touch it in the event of an emergency, but lets' face it, in the 4 years that I have been insured, no claims, am fairly healthy, have a pre-existing condition that hasn't caused me any issues in 12 years, what are my chances of ending up in hospital, one would have to be unlucky, so I will park the money in the bank in a (separate online account) and put 250,000 baht per year which is basically what it would cost me for the family per year noting the wife's policy with another insurer goes into another age bracket this year so her premium goes up as well, and if we are unfortunate enough to have an emergency or require elective surgery then I will have to pay for it as opposed to being extorted, well that's how I feel about it, no reward for no claims, just up, up and up, no real loss to them as we age, take what they can until we jump ship due to the ups in the costs, up to you as they say here.

 

I do hope that we have smooth sailing for at least 8 years as that would have built up 2,000,000 baht in savings that the insurers would have taken, not including any increases due to age brackets and annual increases.

 

Wish me luck.

 

 

If self insuring consider personal accident insurance if you think you're at risk, with Axa it's 6,900 baht a year for 250k medical per accident

[internationalism]

The pacific cross is the cheapest one, gives up to 20% reduction for no claims and has deductible up to 300k. 
A year ago i took with them the cheapest policy covering some 380k plus added outpatient for some 3k bht and accident to 1mln for just 1k bht. I had also 2 covid policies from some other insurers. 

in october they allowed me to take a new policy, upgrade to 5mln (to meet thailand pass requirements) with 300k deductible. 
and in november once again change to only 3mln (when thailand pass requirement was lowered from $100k to $50k).  
that all without any penalties. 
I have recently tried once again to lower policy to meet $20k thailand pass requirements and change my deductible to 30k, but I would lose on that cancellation so stays as it was. 
To fill the gap to 300k deductible i got covid only policy from fwd for 4200b. 
If there is some another serious covid wave i would renew pacific cross but with low deductible this time. If not, I would allow to laps it. 
In the future I will come back to them, they even might count this year as no claim year and allow some 5% premium reduction. 
I know they are tight fisted, but that stops scammers for applying. Some more left for genuine cases. 
For some serious emergencies I can always cash my 1.5btc which i got yet before covid times. 
I would rather invest my money in yearly/biyearly health check ups including abdomen usg for cancer, quality time with family/gf on extended budget holidays, healthy foods, sport equipment/sports, hours of daily thai massage (that one takes up to 6h when on holidays)

Edited April 9, 2022 by internationalism

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, internationalism said:

The pacific cross is the cheapest one, gives up to 20% reduction for no claims and has deductible up to 300k. 
A year ago i took with them the cheapest policy covering some 380k plus added outpatient for some 3k bht and accident to 1mln for just 1k bht. I had also 2 covid policies from some other insurers. 

in october they allowed me to take a new policy, upgrade to 5mln (to meet thailand pass requirements) with 300k deductible. 
and in november once again change to only 3mln (when thailand pass requirement was lowered from $100k to $50k).  
that all without any penalties. 
I have recently tried once again to lower policy to meet $20k thailand pass requirements and change my deductible to 30k, but I would lose on that cancellation so stays as it was. 
To fill the gap to 300k deductible i got covid only policy from fwd for 4200b. 
If there is some another serious covid wave i would renew pacific cross but with low deductible this time. If not, I would allow to laps it. 
In the future I will come back to them, they even might count this year as no claim year and allow some 5% premium reduction. 
I know they are tight fisted, but that stops scammers for applying. Some more left for genuine cases. 
For some serious emergencies I can always cash my 1.5btc which i got yet before covid times. 
I would rather invest my money in yearly/biyearly health check ups including abdomen usg for cancer, quality time with family/gf on extended budget holidays, healthy foods, sport equipment/sports, hours of daily thai massage (that one takes up to 6h when on holidays)

Sounds good, a friend recently tried to make a claim with them for a hernia, they balked and heard nothing since

[jerrymahoney]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

At the end of the day with all the research I have done, I have decided to self insure as I have equal the amount to the higher policy cover in reserves, albeit it I wouldn't like to have to touch it in the event of an emergency, but lets' face it, in the 4 years that I have been insured, no claims,

I had health insurance in Thailand and no claims for almost 15 years. Then I had a large claim (with no pre-existing condition issues) equaled to a good chunk of all those 15 years' premiums combined.

 

If I had self-insured and put those same premium amounts into a reserve account, now that account would be down significantly. But I am still insured if/when the next complication should arise while there would be not sufficient amount remaining in my self-insured reserve account for the next possible event.

Edited April 9, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I had health insurance in Thailand and no claims for almost 15 years. Then I had a large claim (with no pre-existing condition issues) equaled to a good chunk of all those 15 years' premiums combined.

 

If I had self-insured and put those same premium amounts into a reserve account, now that account would be down significantly. But I am still insured if/when the next complication should arise while there would be not sufficient amount remaining in my self-insured reserve account for the next possible event.

If they had denied the claim you'd be down double, totally in their hands

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If they had denied the claim you'd be down double, totally in their hands

They didn't.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

If I had self-insured and put those same premium amounts into a reserve account, now that account would be down significantly.

Good point.

 

Can I ask;

 

1) How much you were insure

 

2) Any deductibles

 

3) How much the claim was for 

 

It's all relevant to me as the combined family policies will end up costing me around 220k baht per annum when the wife's policy increases into the next age bracket which is 1 January, i.e. if I had kept the David Shield policy with the pre-existing condition.

 

That said we all know premiums increase with age brackets, and in my case with the previous provider, annually with the excuse being world costs and market environment.

 

From what I have read and from knowing of people who have been hospitalised, tops is under the 2 mil mark, which would be 8 years, with me putting 250k baht per annum into a separate online account.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by 4MyEgo

[jerrymahoney]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Good point.

 

Can I ask;

 

1) How much you were insure

 

2) Any deductibles

 

3) How much the claim was for 

 

It's all relevant to me as the combined family policies will end up costing me around 220k baht per annum when the wife's policy increases into the next age bracket which is 1 January, i.e. if I had kept the David Shield policy with the pre-existing condition.

 

From what I have read and from knowing of people who have been hospitalised, tops is under the 2 mil mark.

1. 1 million USD

2. No.

3. 500,000 baht

 

[SooKee]

12 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Is there a difference as I checked April out with the broker and April direct, and yes they have a Bangkok address.

Very much so.  If you look here you will see there are two listings for April.  April Thailand and April International.  

 

https://www.aainsure.net/healthcare-international/

 

 

Their policies have some similarities (as do they all of course) on face value but when you get into the detail they are significantly different, plus April International are subject to the very strict insurance regulation in Europe vs that which exists in Thailand.  Two of the main considerations in that regard are the (very high) potential to have any condition you may have claimed for excluded at renewal and random premium hikes. 

 

The self-insurance thing doesn't appeal to me at all, it's all well and good provided nothing really serious happens but even for those in extremely good health you never know what might happen.  When you look at the costs of a heart operation costing 4-5m baht it does make you think.  Am I anticipating any such problem, no.  Do I feel better being insured against it, you bet.  Plus of course, you have to factor in the potential for repeat payments from your self-insurance pot if something serious enough happens.  Each to their own as to how much risk they are prepared to take and of course how much they can afford.  If I was a millionaire, no way would I be paying for health insurance on a pure cost basis, convenience and peace of mind however, different matter.

 

It's down to Globality and April for me.  The level of cover for Globality is far higher than I'd ever need here but it only works out £130 more expensive once I factor in the 'dead money' non-sterling transaction fee and I think the restrictions on Globality are less.  As AA Brokers explained to me, they are a high end company.  It's just trying to anticipate premium increases in the future, impossible but AA Brokers might have a better chance at an educated guess than me.

Edited April 10, 2022 by SooKee
Edited to post link

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, SooKee said:

It's just trying to anticipate premium increases in the future

Therein lay the problem for me, e.g. as I have a pre-existing condition which David Shield covered for the 4 years that I was with them, it would appear that that cost for the cover sky rocketed or the policy premium did, e.g. 142,500 baht at 61, no breakdown costs, covered for us 1.2 mil or 40 mil Baht.

 

Above said, I don't need that much cover and when I add the wife's and kids separate insurance company, it's also going up so it's a combined amount of around 220k baht, without taking into consideration that there will be increases as we go along.

 

It's one thing to be insured and know what your annual premium is going to be (age bracket wise), but when you also get annual increases coming out of the blue, you have to ask yourself, how high can this go, and my hunch is, higher and higher.

 

Health insurance is a must, however to what cost, yes I can afford the 220k baht per annum, but that is not my point, it's the constant increases annually, age brackets I can understand as you know what's coming, but the out of the blue increases annually don't sit well with me.

 

I suppose I should revisit the deductibles and perhaps take the highest deductible (327,500 baht) and in the event that I have a claim (without my pre-existing) or any family member is unfortunate to have an incident, then anything over the deductible would be welcome.

 

Not an easy spot to be in, but it is what it is, today, self insuring, tomorrow looking at insuring, round and round we go. 

[SooKee]

I forgot to post the link (re April Thailand / April International) above originally, now edited, but just in case you missed it:

 

https://www.aainsure.net/healthcare-international/

 

I really loathe paying any kind of insurance, health insurance being at the top of the list due to the very high cost.  The way I look at it though is that there are a whole host of things I am not paying here that I would be paying in Europe plus of course, the biggest concern, there is zero safety net here in terms of health care.

Even with the significant cost of health insurance I'm still in credit with all the things I'd have to pay in Europe.  Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it's still a high cost and money that we have to have in the first place.

 

The problem I think (I haven't looked closely so I could be wrong) with too high a deductible is that AFAIK it's not one deductible per year.  It's one deductible per claim, so if one was to get complications from any condition one would be paying that deductible every time. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by SooKee

[internationalism]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Sounds good, a friend recently tried to make a claim with them for a hernia, they balked and heard nothing since

Operations supposed to be pre-arranged with insurer. They are usually large money. Insurer can point to another hospital associated with them. Probably request medical documents to see necessity. 
In that case they would pay directly to hospital (i would imagine), without upfront from the patient. 

in the first year of pandemic I took April, they have covered my accidental tooth damage, but i have wasted the initial appointment because dentist did not know how to proceed with insurance., so he just took my statement about an accident, xrayed.
 At renewal their premium jumped by some 30k (and thats not because of my claim but a regular yearly increase).