Life expectancy of water pipes?

[OneMoreFarang]

Currently I am renovating my condominium from scratch. The building is about 30 years old.

The main freshwater pipes in the building were replaced a couple of years ago. But in the individual apartments are still the galvanized steel water pipes.

And for wastewater there are blue pipes, I think this is PVC - please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Now, while my condominium is under construction, it would be relative easy to replace some or all of these pipes.

The apartments above and below me are currently not occupied so this would make it also possible to change "my" pipes which are on the ceiling of the condominium below me (if the owner agrees).

 

Now the big question is: Does it make sense to replace any of those pipes? I spoke with a Thai engineer about that and he asked (not surprisingly): Why do you want to do this?

My answer: I prefer not to do it. But if I have to do it now or in 10 or 20 years then I prefer to do it now so that I don't get the mess after everything is renovated and looks nice.

 

Over to you. What is the life expectancy of these pipes?

And with what should they be replaced if we replace them? On the internet I read about "PEX". But I don't know if that is used in Thailand and what they call it here.

And for the record: I would ask a professional plumber to do that job and get the approval from the building management before we do this.

 

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

I think the PVC ones will outlast you. Their big enemy is UV but  since they are inside...

The steel pipes depend on the water. You would have to have a look inside one.

 

The worst offenders are the cast metal taps and fittings. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

The steel pipes depend on the water. You would have to have a look inside one.

Thanks. We have to remove one of them for sure. Then I have an example to look inside.

What should I look for? Rust? 

[Kenny202]

The blue pipe they use here not even pressure rated for mains water. Goes back to the days where they ran a pipe around the outside of the house or apartment and only had a few outlets inside and was a simple thing to fix. I built two houses here and lived in several rentals and leaking water always an issue. They even set these cheap plastic in cement! Pressure was also a lot lower than it is these days. If I were you invest in the black nylon pressure hose and decent fittings. Should last a lifetime.

[itsari]

Replace the galvanised pipes for sure . 

Pvc waste pipes would not be expensive to change while the unit is stripped down . Pvc becomes brittle with out the help of UV.

[itsari]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

The blue pipe they use here not even pressure rated for mains water. Goes back to the days where they ran a pipe around the outside of the house or apartment and only had a few outlets inside and was a simple thing to fix. I built two houses here and lived in several rentals and leaking water always an issue. They even set these cheap plastic in cement! Pressure was also a lot lower than it is these days. If I were you invest in the black nylon pressure hose and decent fittings. Should last a lifetime.

Black pipe is polyurethane . Cheap and long lasting

[HighPriority]

The pvc will easily outlive you, leave it alone.

Ifyou don’t like Gal pressure pipe then knock yourself out and replace it.

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

Ifyou don’t like Gal pressure pipe then knock yourself out and replace it.

Thanks, it's not about what I like and more about how long they will last. Do you see a valid reason to replace them?

[OneMoreFarang]

32 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

The blue pipe they use here not even pressure rated for mains water.

Thanks

At least in my case the blue pipes are only for wastewater. There is no pressure. 

[HighPriority]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, it's not about what I like and more about how long they will last. Do you see a valid reason to replace them?

It depends on the water quality… I’ve seen gal pipes in Australia 50 yo and whilst slightly clogging internally from rust are essentially ok.

 

Would I install gal from new, no.

Depending on your buildings circumstance it’s probably a fairly expensive thing to replace.

Even if accessible to replace the pressure pipes in your unit, what pipes are feeding your unit… if gal is coming from kerb to your unit, what is the point of replacing the gal inside your unit ? (Apart from old pipes not existing and therefore not leaking inside your unit, you hope…)

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by HighPriority

[Kenny202]

7 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

It depends on the water quality… I’ve seen gal pipes in Australia 50 yo and whilst slightly clogging internally from rust are essentially ok.

 

Would I install gal from new, no.

Depending on your buildings circumstance it’s probably a fairly expensive thing to replace.

Even if accessible to replace the pressure pipes in your unit, what pipes are feeding your unit… if gal is coming from kerb to your unit, what is the point of replacing the gal inside your unit ? (Apart from old pipes not existing and therefore not leaking inside your unit, you hope…)

 

I would disagree with that but depends on cost factor and ease of replacement. If at all possible change the gal to Black pressure hose (coiled hose). It maybe be true that there is gal as the main feeder in the building or in the street but if you get a leak or blockage in YOUR condo it is YOUR problem. If it is external it is the body corporates problem. 

[VocalNeal]

48 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

The blue pipe they use here not even pressure rated for mains water.

The pressure rating , in bar, is stamped on the pipe. Usually 13.5 which for the non technical is about 200 psi. Much more than "mains" water.

 

What they used on your houses I do not know?

[HighPriority]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I would disagree with that but depends on cost factor and ease of replacement. If at all possible change the gal to Black pressure hose (coiled hose). It maybe be true that there is gal as the main feeder in the building or in the street but if you get a leak or blockage in YOUR condo it is YOUR problem. If it is external it is the body corporates problem. 

Fair call, but it’s reasonably unlikely to be his problem for another 20 years, worst case…

If it upsets him, sure spend and replace, if not leave it for the subsequent owners to deal with.

[Gottfrid]

43 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks

At least in my case the blue pipes are only for wastewater. There is no pressure. 

If it is galvanized water pipes, you will only have to replace them every 70-80 years. If you are referring to plastic pipes in Thailand, they are unpredicable. Can last for life times, but to be sure, just replace.

[Pmbkk]

 

We're renovating a couple of ours at the moment.

 

We had a couple of issues when the last owner who knocked two apts into one and didn't inform the juristic people of some pipe/plumbing changes.

 

My biggest tip is get the Juristic maintenance head-guy to overlook any structural changes and ensure he agrees and ask for recommendations as they know your condo and the block.

They know the issues they experience in maintenance.

They also have a plan of everything in it(pipework etc ) - or ours do anyway.

 

My wife has the guy review anything to do with pipes, plumbing, changes etc ( she also has the 5* hotel next door maintenance guy review everything - he actually even does some of the work )

 

Always go for the best if you plan on staying there.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Pmbkk

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, Pmbkk said:

 

We're renovating a couple of ours at the moment.

 

We had a couple of issues when the last owner who knocked two apts into one and didn't inform the juristic people of some pipe/plumbing changes.

 

My biggest tip is get the Juristic maintenance head-guy to overlook any structural changes and ensure he agrees and ask for recommendations as they know your condo and the block.

They also have a plan of everything in it(pipework etc ) - or ours do anyway.

 

My wife has the guy review anything to do with pipes, plumbing, changes etc ( she also has the 5* hotel next door maintenance guy review everything - he actually even does some of the work )

 

Always go for the best if you plan on staying there.

Thanks. I have already the original plans. The management gave them to me.

You have a good point that the maintenance engineer should know all the details. Yes, but unfortunately he gives me the impression that he is not good at his work. But it definitely doesn't hurt to ask him. Or to be specific I will ask my engineer to talk with the building engineer.

[Lacessit]

The life of galvanised pipes is dependent on water quality. A high Langelier scaling index means the pipes will probably outlast you by many years. A low one, no.

PVC pipes are only attacked by organics, such as kitchen oils.

If you see red rust inside a galvanised pipe, it's definitely time to replace it. Rust means the cathodic protection of the zinc coating has failed.

[OneMoreFarang]

46 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

Depending on your buildings circumstance it’s probably a fairly expensive thing to replace.

Even if accessible to replace the pressure pipes in your unit, what pipes are feeding your unit… if gal is coming from kerb to your unit, what is the point of replacing the gal inside your unit ? (Apart from old pipes not existing and therefore not leaking inside your unit, you hope…)

My apartment is maybe 3m away from the shaft with the new plastic pipes (thick green pipes). A replacement of that part is probably easy. The pipes are free accessible under the ceiling. 

I know owners are responsible for leaking water pipes in their unit. I don't know about pipes to their unit. I guess that is the responsibility of the building. I will check it.

[Jerno]

Definitely replace the gal pipes.  They will rust out at threaded elbows and leak soon given the stated age.  The threaded parts are thinner metal than the pipe proper and not galvanised coated.

[Pmbkk]

Outside your unit it's the juristic dept.

 

We had one of those pipes burst before and leaked into the apt - we claimed about 100K on the juristic insurance.

 

Re the pipes, in general I'd just use PVC 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Pmbkk

[The Hammer2021]

One job leads to another so leave  it alone. You might not be here in 20 years anyway

[Jotnar]

I would definitely replace them.  Too easy, especially now, and inexpensive. 

Be crazy not to IMHO

[HighPriority]

Someone mentioned using poly, I’m far from a Thailand expert, but whilst poly Bpress pipe and fittings are everywhere in new construction/renovation in Australia, I’ve never seen them in Thailand. 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

One job leads to another so leave  it alone. You might not be here in 20 years anyway

Or maybe in 20 years I am old and ask myself: Why didn't I do that 20 years ago when it was easy?

[HighPriority]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or maybe in 20 years I am old and ask myself: Why didn't I do that 20 years ago when it was easy?

But you could also buy a top of the range smartphone too…

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, itsari said:

Black pipe is polyurethane . Cheap and long lasting

Thanks

 

I think I found them here:

https://www.onestockhome.com/en/categories/ppr-pipes/sub_categories/pb-polybutylene-water-pipe

 

Interestingly HomePro has only green and blue pipes:

https://www.homepro.co.th/c/PLU0208

 

And Thaiwatsadu has black PVC pipes

https://www.thaiwatsadu.com/th/category/ท่อน้ำประปา-|-อุปกรณข้อต่อ-5404

 

What about the green PP-R pipes? I am pretty sure those were used by the building to renew all the main water pipes, the big pipes and the small pipes.

https://www.thaiwatsadu.com/th/category/ท่อน้ำ-|-ข้อต่อ-PPR-540404

 

Are the green or black better? In which way. Thanks.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, HighPriority said:

But you could also buy a top of the range smartphone too…

I did that already 20 years ago.

[itsari]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks

 

I think I found them here:

https://www.onestockhome.com/en/categories/ppr-pipes/sub_categories/pb-polybutylene-water-pipe

 

Interestingly HomePro has only green and blue pipes:

https://www.homepro.co.th/c/PLU0208

 

And Thaiwatsadu has black PVC pipes

https://www.thaiwatsadu.com/th/category/ท่อน้ำประปา-|-อุปกรณข้อต่อ-5404

 

What about the green PP-R pipes? I am pretty sure those were used by the building to renew all the main water pipes, the big pipes and the small pipes.

https://www.thaiwatsadu.com/th/category/ท่อน้ำ-|-ข้อต่อ-PPR-540404

 

Are the green or black better? In which way. Thanks.

 

Green pipe is normally used for hot water and the joints are fused together using heat from a purpose made tool . I am sure that you can use the green pipe for cold water as well . Pipe and fittings do cost more . I bought the fusion tool through lazada for 500 baht and works great 

Polyurethane pipe is often used underground for cold water supply  using compression fittings . The pipe is also used as conduit for underground cables . Ideal for under a concrete slab .

[brianthainess]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks. We have to remove one of them for sure. Then I have an example to look inside.

What should I look for? Rust? 

YES 

[flexomike]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks. We have to remove one of them for sure. Then I have an example to look inside.

What should I look for? Rust? 

calcium deposits can build up in the pipes over the years restricting the flow of water