Banking / tax

[brianthainess]

What country does one register in as being a resident 'for tax purposes' ? My friend gets an aged pension from the UK, no other income, and has a bank account there, he also has a bank account in OZ, with no other income, and in Thailand, any income or interest from all, is way below any taxable threshold income. So the question remains what country to register.

[Kwasaki]

Wrong forum. 

 

Your friend is a UK resident and could pay tax if his pension was more than that income tax threshold amount. 

So he is registered for tax in UK. 

If he worked in OZ he maybe registered for tax there also. 

If you worked in Thailand you could be registered for tax here. 

 

Where will you get any pension from. 

 

That's how I understand it. 

 

[brianthainess]

So he'll need to register in 2 countries ?

[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

So he'll need to register in 2 countries ?

I only know how it works for me, for example if the UK gov give me a massive rise on my pension ????the UK tax office has my one and only Thailand address and would contact me to say they will be taxing me on ex amount. 

[chilly07]

UK for tax residency as the pension provider will pay net of tax as Thailand has a tax agreement with the UK. If the sum is below the personal allowance no actual tax will be deducted.

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

So he'll need to register in 2 countries ?

You need to check the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Britain and Thailand if his pension might be taxed in both states, i.e. register for income tax in Thailand. Only one income tax will be paid, and that would be the highest, which probably is the British. Most pensioners don't need to register for income tax in Thailand, but the Thai "taxman" begins to check if tax has been paid in the country of origin of the pension...????

[topt]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

So he is registered for tax in UK. 

Even if he is non registered for tax in UK unless his pension is a so called "government" pension he would pay tax on it in the UK - if he was above the threshold as @chilly07 states.

 

If you spend more than 180 days in Thailand you are theoretically supposed to be tax registered here.

34 minutes ago, khunPer said:

You need to check the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Britain and Thailand if his pension might be taxed in both states,

 

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

as Thailand has a tax agreement with the UK.

As reported in many threads private pensions and the state pension are not included in the DTA between UK and Thailand.

Government (read civil service) and I believe Service pensions are, but I am unclear on the latter.

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, topt said:

you spend more than 180 days in Thailand you are theoretically supposed to be tax registered here.

I have been here 16 years and pay Thailand tax, could claim it back but don't bother. 

[topt]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Be here 16 years and pay Thailand tax could claim it back but don't bother. 

Sorry but I am confused as you said earlier -

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I only know how it works for me, for example if the UK gov give me a massive rise on my pension ????the UK tax office has my one and only Thailand address and would contact me to say they will be taxing me on ex amount. 

Which suggested you were being taxed in the UK which I would expect.

 

Or are you talking about tax withheld on bank interest?

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, topt said:

Sorry but I am confused as you said earlier -

Which suggested you were being taxed in the UK which I would expect.

 

Or are you talking about tax withheld on bank interest?

I can only explain this,  my pensions in UK include 2 private pensions and the Uk gov pension so I pay a bit of income tax because it's only just over the threshold.

 

If Thailand baht goes below 30 to £ I  would  not have to pay. 

 

My extension visa money left in the Thai bank gets interest which is taxed by Thailand I don't bother to get it back which I could if I  wanted that's how I understand it, if this thread was in the correct forum you would get a better answer. 

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, topt said:

As reported in many threads private pensions and the state pension are not included in the DTA between UK and Thailand.

Article 19, specified in (2) (a) and (2) (b)...????

 

[topt]

5 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Article 19, specified in (2) (a) and (2) (b)...????

 

Not sure what you are trying to say. That article deals with "Governmental...." which is what I mentioned.

I have posted the links before and you have been inviolved in the discussions.

Try using the UK version and this digest is easier to see it - 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

Go to page 34 and look at the note 4 on the far right hand side.

Ok?

 

[topt]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

My extension visa money left in the Thai bank gets interest which is taxed by Thailand I don't bother to get it back which I could if I  wanted that's how I understand it, if this thread was in the correct forum you would get a better answer. 

You have confused the issue by bringing this in as was nothing to do with the OP.

You said you pay tax in UK then said in a later reply to me you pay Thailand taxes for 16 years and don't reclaim. In that post you did not say it was tax on bank interest which is why I queried it. You have now confirmed it so we now know what you were referring to. How you understand it is correct.

[itsari]

If your sole  income is from a pension outside from Thailand then there is no tax to pay in Thailand .

 

[Kwasaki]

58 minutes ago, topt said:

You have confused the issue by bringing this in as was nothing to do with the OP.

You said you pay tax in UK then said in a later reply to me you pay Thailand taxes for 16 years and don't reclaim. In that post you did not say it was tax on bank interest which is why I queried it. You have now confirmed it so we now know what you were referring to. How you understand it is correct.

I don't care I'm alright jack ask a guru on the subject, if you don't understand what I write about what happens to me I can't help you.

[The Hammer2021]

7 hours ago, brianthainess said:

So he'll need to register in 2 countries ?

No. Just the UK. What nationality  is he?

[topt]

24 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't care I'm alright jack ask a guru on the subject, if you don't understand what I write about what happens to me I can't help you.

Since you appear to have understood nothing I have said in plain English it looks more like I can't help you........ ????‍♂️

[dcollins]

11 hours ago, brianthainess said:

What country does one register in as being a resident 'for tax purposes' ? My friend gets an aged pension from the UK, no other income, and has a bank account there, he also has a bank account in OZ, with no other income, and in Thailand, any income or interest from all, is way below any taxable threshold income. So the question remains what country to register.

Each country has its own rules. The fact that your friend gets a pension from the UK and has a bank account probably means he was tax resident there at some point but it doesn't tell you anything about the position now. The UK has a codified statutory residence test that is quite complicated but if you Google for it you will find a flow chart. The Thai test is much simpler and is just about how many days you have spent in Thailand during the calendar year. I'm not sure if the cutoff is 179 or 180 days but it's around there. No idea about Oz.

 

If you meet the criteria for tax residency in a particular country then you are tax resident there, even if you don't end up with a tax bill because you have no income or your income is below the threshold. 

 

If you meet the criteria for tax residency in more than one country then you are tax resident in more than one country.  It's possible to be tax resident in the UK without spending anything like 6 months of the year there, so there are probably a lot of people out there that are tax resident in both the UK and Thailand.

 

Why does he need to know btw?

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, topt said:

Not sure what you are trying to say. That article deals with "Governmental...." which is what I mentioned.

I have posted the links before and you have been inviolved in the discussions.

Try using the UK version and this digest is easier to see it - 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

Go to page 34 and look at the note 4 on the far right hand side.

Ok?

 

What I'm saying was

Quote

You need to check the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Britain and Thailand if his pension might be taxed in both states, i.e. register for income tax in Thailand. Only one income tax will be paid, and that would be the highest, which probably is the British. Most pensioners don't need to register for income tax in Thailand, but the Thai "taxman" begins to check if tax has been paid in the country of origin of the pension.

-and is that state pensions and other pension from UK will be taxed in UK - as there are "no relief", and therefore can be taxed on both states - but as "income tax" is covered by the DTA, the total tax will not be higher than the highest tax. I.e. if Britain has already withheld income tax and British income tax is higher that Thai income tax, and Thailand also tax that part of the income, which has been transferred into Thailand same year as earned, Thailand shall pay that tax back by using the "credit method". Thailand however has the option not to tax the money by using the "exemption method"...????

 

Quote

C.   Elimination of double taxation

The focus of a DTA is the elimination of double taxation. Each DTA may prescribe different methods of elimination of double taxation of a person by the resident country:

(1)   Exemption method

The country of residence does not tax the income which according to the DTA is taxed in the source country.

(2)   Credit method

The resident country retains the right to tax the income which was already taxed in the source country. It calculates its tax on the basis of the taxpayer's total income including income from the other country which according to the DTA is taxed in that other country. However, it allows a deduction from its own tax for the tax paid in the other country.

Source: "Introduction to DTA".

[agudbuk]

It would be great if the UK government unfroze our pensions here in Thailand .