‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[fredwiggy]

15 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

No I know all I need to know about you which is ignoring all the evidence about how to deal with the problem and instead blame the parents. Perhaps those parents grieving at their murdered children also have something to say on that.

Again, you know nothing. IF you have read all of what I've had to say, I have ignored no evidence and know firsthand what has been going on, as I still have contact with the people I worked with, Yahoo news daily and my family partly still lives in Texas, and the US.I know as much about this as most anyone, as I lived in Texas 32 years, sold guns, hunted all of my life, lived in the NYC area 30 years, and read, daily, about psychological issues, narcissism, depression and the like, why ,how and where people do what they do. If you read what I said, it's not blaming any particular parent but MOST of what kids become is a byproduct of parenting, either good or bad. Some comes from peer pressure, which can be also intervened by parenting. Kids from all households have troubles, and that includes good homes. Kids who kill like this one did, has background trouble. That can come from over permissive parenting to overly strict parenting, and also due to neglect or abuse. A child can be raised in love, then rebel, finding bad peers to hang out with, and get into trouble. BUT, if the child was taught the difference between right from wrong, respect for life and was not neglected or abused, he or she would not be waiting until they turned 18 to buy guns, which is premeditated, and go directly to a school and kill so many innocent children which had nothing to do with his anger issues. The mom said she didn't understand why her son did this. That means he wasn't talking to his parents about his life, his dreams, his fears, that kids were bullying him, or they turned a deaf ear. Kids will tell you most everything if you are close with them, as my mistakes, then re-adjusting in my own life, showed me this. Read what I wrote, all of it, and you'll see I'm against a lot of things the US does as far as guns are concerned. A lot rebut things said here, but don't offer any constructive advice besides posts others have made.

Edited May 30, 2022 by fredwiggy

[fredwiggy]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Please tell me how training children in shooter drills in schools helps them understand trust, love and care.

0-5 is time spent with their parents, or where they should be. I didn't mention shooter drills. There is good and bad about them that I won't go into.

[Yellowtail]

54 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The blame belongs squarely with a culture that feeds on paranoia and fear. Families break down all over the world. That's a classic look over there argument.

If America wants to do something, it must eliminate the semi-automatic weapons available. Australia has done it, the UK has done it, and when was the last mass school shooting in either country?

 

I once was talking to a guy as we drove through Philadelphia. His household contained 19 firearms. When I asked why he needed so many, it was to protect his family from criminals, and fight the Communists when they invaded. They are taking their time coming.

 

Face facts, most gun owners have guns because they like guns. It gives them a sense of power. The statistics are households that have guns are much more likely to have suicides, accidental gun-related deaths, or be killed in a robbery. Burglars don't want to kill you, they just want to steal your stuff and get the hell out. That's what home insurance policies are for.

 

The pitiful excuses I see posted on this thread makes me think there are many Americans who just refuse to grow up.

Semi-automatic rifles have been around 140 years, and sales are generally more restricted in the US then they have ever been. 

 

But you're right, they have to be the problem....

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Please tell me how training children in shooter drills in schools helps them understand trust, love and care.

We had rifle team when I was in high school and don't remember any school shooting. 

 

Most every kid I knew had at least one rifle.

 

But yeah, the problem has to be the guns. 

[coolcarer]

33 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

It appears you know nothing of who I am and what I know about psychology. I still have not denied there is a problem, and that something has to be done. I offered solutions that would work, as have others all over the world. Nothing you could try to explain to me is anything I already don't have an understanding of. What you mentioned about the problem is right, as I know. What you said about not blaming the parents isn't correct. The most important time in a child's life is age 0-5. This is where they learn everything about trust, love and care, and if that isn't there, their futures are in trouble, unless they recognize the issues they have been subjected to, and get help for them. Nanny states are damaging, as the government is still people, and people make mistakes. If parents teach their children not to hurt others, to respect human and animal life, and are loved and cared for, most of this would not happen because, like you said, the damage has already been done by the time the children come to the attention of authorities.

Makes no difference to me what you know or what you don’t know on child and adolescent psychology or therapy via your reading. What is clear to me is that your excuses don’t fit with the evidence that is already there. Believe it or not, there is no need to re invent the wheel. other countries manage this problem far more effectively without the need to blame parents. You would do well to have a read on how they achieve that.

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

0-5 is time spent with their parents, or where they should be. I didn't mention shooter drills. There is good and bad about them that I won't go into.

I wonder how many kids that have committed school shootings leaned to shoot hunting with their dads? 

[The Hammer2021]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:03 AM, RichardColeman said:

If the killer had been a white guy, this would be 24/7 on every new station in the USA until the US mid-terms.

Until the next slaughter

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

I thought this thread was about the massacre of innocent kids by someone who could legally purchase (at the age of 18), a high powered semi automatic rifle, in this case the AR-15, which happens to be the mass murderers weapon of choice when it comes to taking the lives of little kids in a very short space of time.  

Exactly, As you have pointed out several times, this thread is about ASSULT RIFLES, like the AR-15 which represents a tiny fraction of firearms deaths. 

 

It's clear no one cares about the 95% of firearm deaths caused by weapons other than assault rifle, as they do not fit the left's election agenda.

 

People that want to discuss something that will have a significant impact on ALL gun deaths should start another thread. Until then, they should not make misleading statements. 

 

People should be honest. I think we all know at least ten times as many kids are killed in automobile accidents each year than with assault rifles, yes?

 

We're in agreement. Any mention of gun deaths not related to assault rifles is off topic. 

 

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Makes no difference to me what you know or what you don’t know on child and adolescent psychology or therapy via your reading. What is clear to me is that your excuses don’t fit with the evidence that is already there. Believe it or not, there is no need to re invent the wheel. other countries manage this problem far more effectively without the need to blame parents. You would do well to have a read on how they achieve that.

Again you are assuming you know me. I haven't made any excuses. I stated why things happen, and if you would read more on the subject, you would understand too. This problem has many facets, of which parenting, gun laws or lack thereof, high capacity semi auto guns, bad response police time, and the fact that the US is highly populated all fit in. Kids in all countries kill others. The US has more mass shootings and that's a problem with the US that needs to be addressed. Ever think about what's going on in the Ukraine or is that old news? People have short memories and that's also a problem. Do you think I don't know what other countries have done regarding gun laws? When you are into a subject, you read and listen to everything you can about it. That includes learning about what goes on in other countries you are thinking of visiting, that have hunting and fishing,etc. This is not to take away from the facts, that there is a problem, but there are other countries where this takes place, and isn't reported, as in Russia, China, Africa etc

[The Hammer2021]

Gun ownership in the  USA is now a héllish force force majeure. There is no solution. The problem  will get worse. By flooding  the market with millions  of guns the manufacturers  have it impossible to collect  them. This combined  with the wilful misinterpretation of a minor ammendment - combined wilful stupidity combined with economic  dependence- there is no fix. But the phenomenon of the intermittent  but regular  mass slaughter is a reminder of the barbarism and savagery of the USA in reality

[fredwiggy]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I wonder how many kids that have committed school shootings leaned to shoot hunting with their dads? 

Never heard of any, mostly because spending quality time with dad, learning first hand respect for the animals you hunt, doesn't usually end up with those results.

[Slip]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Exactly, As you have pointed out several times, this thread is about ASSULT RIFLES, like the AR-15 which represents a tiny fraction of firearms deaths. 

 

It's clear no one cares about the 95% of firearm deaths caused by weapons other than assault rifle, as they do not fit the left's election agenda.

 

People that want to discuss something that will have a significant impact on ALL gun deaths should start another thread. Until then, they should not make misleading statements. 

 

People should be honest. I think we all know at least ten times as many kids are killed in automobile accidents each year than with assault rifles, yes?

 

We're in agreement. Any mention of gun deaths not related to assault rifles is off topic. 

 

More trolling and pushing your warped agenda.  This is the 2nd time you have misrepresented the topic of this thread.  It's up there at the top if you need to check: ‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting'.

[The Hammer2021]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Exactly, As you have pointed out several times, this thread is about ASSULT RIFLES, like the AR-15 which represents a tiny fraction of firearms deaths. 

 

It's clear no one cares about the 95% of firearm deaths caused by weapons other than assault rifle, as they do not fit the left's election agenda.

 

People that want to discuss something that will have a significant impact on ALL gun deaths should start another thread. Until then, they should not make misleading statements. 

 

People should be honest. I think we all know at least ten times as many kids are killed in automobile accidents each year than with assault rifles, yes?

 

We're in agreement. Any mention of gun deaths not related to assault rifles is off topic. 

 

As far as I am concerned  neither  right wing gun nuts nor liberal lefties  define the content of this thread which is gun control in the  USA. The rules are absurd. Details of weaponry, points of law, history  or culture or politics- all a sideshow and distraction- the gun laws in the  USA are tragically NOT FIT FOR  PURPOSE.

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Most, if not all law enforcement agencies i.e. City police, County Sheriff, and State police, do NOT use fully automatic weapons.  They use semi-automatic firearms.  There is a very huge difference between the two.  

Do try to keep up, as most large cities / metro DO have automatic assault weapons, especially since 1997 N Hollywood shoot out.   Fast forward (01;40) & take note at the end.

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

As far as I am concerned  neither  right wing gun nuts nor liberal lefties  define the content of this thread which is gun control in the  USA. The rules are absurd. Details of weaponry, points of law, history  or culture or politics- all a sideshow and distraction- the gun laws in the  USA are tragically NOT FIT FOR  PURPOSE.

What specific gun laws would you like to see enacted that you feel would have the greatest impact on gun deaths? 

[coolcarer]

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Again you are assuming you know me. I haven't made any excuses. I stated why things happen, and if you would read more on the subject, you would understand too. This problem has many facets, of which parenting, gun laws or lack thereof, high capacity semi auto guns, bad response police time, and the fact that the US is highly populated all fit in. Kids in all countries kill others. The US has more mass shootings and that's a problem with the US that needs to be addressed. Ever think about what's going on in the Ukraine or is that old news? People have short memories and that's also a problem. Do you think I don't know what other countries have done regarding gun laws? When you are into a subject, you read and listen to everything you can about it. That includes learning about what goes on in other countries you are thinking of visiting, that have hunting and fishing,etc. This is not to take away from the facts, that there is a problem, but there are other countries where this takes place, and isn't reported, as in Russia, China, Africa etc

If you know so much and have read all there is to read then you would also know that the first step is banning assault rifles and enforcing far stricter laws covering all gun ownership. rather then deflecting the issues onto other social problems.  There is already evidence that if this was carried out in the US it works. There is already evidence it continues to work in other countries.

 

The other problems you mention on parenting are all genuine and worthy of their own thread, why not start one if you are so adamant on using this as an excuse. I will be more than happy to be your first reply.

[candide]

52 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Actually, if you compare per-capita shooting/deaths, a number of European countries have as many or more school shooting as the US, but carry on...

Actually, this is absolutely not true.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What specific gun laws would you like to see enacted that you feel would have the greatest impact on gun deaths? 

Australian gun laws obviously work, the country sits near the bottom of the chart with one death per 100,000 population. The USA is twelve times higher.

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

 

Australia has 14 firearms per 100 people, the US is top of the tree with 120.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

The math and probability calculations don't need an Einstein.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Australian gun laws obviously work, the country sits near the bottom of the chart with one death per 100,000 population. The USA is twelve times higher.

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

 

Australia has 14 firearms per 100 people, the US is top of the tree with 120.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

The math and probability calculations don't need an Einstein.

So you are not for gun laws, you are for confiscation. That's what I thought. 

[fredwiggy]

10 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

If you know so much and have read all there is to read then you would also know that the first step is banning assault rifles and enforcing far stricter laws covering all gun ownership. rather then deflecting the issues onto other social problems.  There is already evidence that if this was carried out in the US it works. There is already evidence it continues to work in other countries.

 

The other problems you mention on parenting are all genuine and worthy of their own thread, why not start one if you are so adamant on using this as an excuse. I will be more than happy to be your first reply.

I wish you would have read all of my posts, especially where I stated that AR-15's are not, in the case of regular citizens, assault rifles. They are semi autos, just like all hunting semi autos, with the exception being , higher capacity clips. These should be banned. If you ban AR-15's, the maniacs will find other guns to use, semi autos,bolt actions, shotguns. Do you know that you can get a 10 shot shotgun? A lot of semi auto handguns have 12-15 shot magazines. These have also been used to kill multiple people. And have been used to save countless others from harm. Laws should of course be strict. these are after all, deadly weapons. weapons that will exist long after we are gone. Background checks, and a mental evaluation should be done I agree. Harsh penalties for those that break the laws. mandatory gun safes, if that could be enforced. If I myself could do anything to help, I would. One vote does count but it takes a lot more to change things. Enforcing laws is better than trying to change people.

[fredwiggy]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Australian gun laws obviously work, the country sits near the bottom of the chart with one death per 100,000 population. The USA is twelve times higher.

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

 

Australia has 14 firearms per 100 people, the US is top of the tree with 120.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

The math and probability calculations don't need an Einstein.

Part of that is because Australia's population is about 26 million, and the US is about 340 million. About 13 times higher.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I wish you would have read all of my posts, especially where I stated that AR-15's are not, in the case of regular citizens, assault rifles. They are semi autos, just like all hunting semi autos, with the exception being , higher capacity clips. These should be banned. If you ban AR-15's, the maniacs will find other guns to use, semi autos,bolt actions, shotguns. Do you know that you can get a 10 shot shotgun? A lot of semi auto handguns have 12-15 shot magazines. These have also been used to kill multiple people. And have been used to save countless others from harm. Laws should of course be strict. these are after all, deadly weapons. weapons that will exist long after we are gone. Background checks, and a mental evaluation should be done I agree. Harsh penalties for those that break the laws. mandatory gun safes, if that could be enforced. If I myself could do anything to help, I would. One vote does count but it takes a lot more to change things. Enforcing laws is better than trying to change people.

Any anyone with basic welding skills and a grinder can extend most clips. 

 

But hey, an election's coming! 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Part of that is because Australia's population is about 26 million, and the US is about 340 million. About 13 times higher.

I think it is adjusted per-capita 

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it is adjusted per-capita 

Just meant that more people=more crime.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So you are not for gun laws, you are for confiscation. That's what I thought. 

Australia has guns. Who has machine guns in the US? How much is an M 16 at your local gun store?

[coolcarer]

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I wish you would have read all of my posts, especially where I stated that AR-15's are not, in the case of regular citizens, assault rifles. They are semi autos, just like all hunting semi autos, with the exception being , higher capacity clips. These should be banned. If you ban AR-15's, the maniacs will find other guns to use, semi autos,bolt actions, shotguns. Do you know that you can get a 10 shot shotgun? A lot of semi auto handguns have 12-15 shot magazines. These have also been used to kill multiple people. And have been used to save countless others from harm. Laws should of course be strict. these are after all, deadly weapons. weapons that will exist long after we are gone. Background checks, and a mental evaluation should be done I agree. Harsh penalties for those that break the laws. mandatory gun safes, if that could be enforced. If I myself could do anything to help, I would. One vote does count but it takes a lot more to change things. Enforcing laws is better than trying to change people.

What makes you think I didn’t read all your posts, even the ones that were deleted for being off topic?

 

Although you were the one who advocates teachers carrying firearms if they want, kind of wraps up what you really feel and your lack of understanding in Child Psychology and the consequences of those children being brought up in a gun culture.

Edited May 30, 2022 by coolcarer

[JCauto]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/05/preventing-mass-shootings-myths-mental-illness-warning-signs-red-flags-uvalde/?fbclid=IwAR0_6L-mo8IBAPrsxXCSQPM9IOX9gsOVOai1idMKrFUNSh5kKyDgkcuGNeU

 

This article (yes, I know, Mother Jones) is actually one of the most sensible things I've read, because it actually identifies a number of common characteristics of these mass shooters. It notes that these are never impulsive acts that come from nowhere, but carefully planned decisions by angry young men who have and engage in:

 

1. Entrenched grievances.

2. Threatening communications.

3. Patterns of aggression (domestic violence for e.g.).

4. Stalking behaviour.

5. Emulation (identification with past attackers).

6. Personal deterioration.

7. Triggering events.

8. Attack preparation. 

Many of these were common for the guy in Uvalde, the guy in Buffalo and the guy in Michigan (Oxford High). This is why gun control advocates are pushing for "Red Flag" laws.

[billd766]

54 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

We had rifle team when I was in high school and don't remember any school shooting. 

 

Most every kid I knew had at least one rifle.

 

But yeah, the problem has to be the guns. 

I grew up in the UK in the 1950s and NOBODY I knew had a gun. Some had air pistols or air rifles, catapults shop bought or home made. No real bows and arrows just ones we made ourselves, yet AFAIR there were no murders, at least in the small town where I lived, no knife fighting, just fists if it got a bit silly.

 

Sure people of my generation (I'm 78) joined the military and were instructed in the proper use of weapons, but still very few had guns.

 

Why would we need them?

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Australia has guns. Who has machine guns in the US? How much is an M 16 at your local gun store?

Machine guns are not legal to own in the US. 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I grew up in the UK in the 1950s and NOBODY I knew had a gun. Some had air pistols or air rifles, catapults shop bought or home made. No real bows and arrows just ones we made ourselves, yet AFAIR there were no murders, at least in the small town where I lived, no knife fighting, just fists if it got a bit silly.

 

Sure people of my generation (I'm 78) joined the military and were instructed in the proper use of weapons, but still very few had guns.

 

Why would we need them?

Yeah, I don't remember any gun or knife fights, even though virtually everyone had guns, that's why I am convinced the problem is the guns.  

 

Incidentally, gun ownership by household in the US is lower than it was 50 years ago, but yeah, it's the guns. 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Yellowtail
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