What Is The Future Of Pattaya’s Walking Street?

[Jonathan Swift]

10 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Sadly Pattaya is still living in the past...

Walking street could have been re-modeled into something which was family friendly and just as if not more profitable.

Unfortunately they want to hang on to the old model of it being a street full of cat-houses.

That only draws in the lower rung, not the real money people.

With all due respect - Unless you have a crystal ball into the future you are simply speculating according to your own preferences and biases. In my 50 years in the bar and entertainment business as a musical entertainer and designer one of the most common fatal mistakes is when someone buys a place and tries to reinvent it in a way that ignores the preexisting patronage and history, and simply goes against the grain of traditional business models. ESPECIALLY if they expect to change something from a regular neighborhood bar or venue into an upscale attraction. Overall economic recovery from Covid will take time. Right now is not a good time for anyone to invest in anything, save new smaller venues taking advantage of lower rents in the abandoned former businesses. In the US I've seen as many as a half dozen "rehabilitated" venues in a given year fail in 1 to six months. It got to where I could predict it. It was a tough and unforgiving economy where I lived. The idea that you can take a place like Walking St., established over decades as a particular kind of attraction with its own identity, raze it, put millions into it, completely change its identity and overcome its past reputation, turn it into something it has never been, and then take an "if you build it they will come"  position HOPING the people with money will show up is extremely risky - as there is no track record, business model,  or template for the success such a thing in that type of situation (Thailand entertainement districts of that type), except those that ended up in  failures. How are you going to lure investors? If I was an investor I wouldn't touch it. Is the government going to be willing to gamble with huge amounts of money? It looks like a big fat no. The sure, practical, and sensible thing which doesn't gamble with existing livelihoods as well a huge amount of capital is to let it come back the way it was. There is ample evidence to think that will work. There are enough places still open there to indicate the small businesses would be happy to come back. It will follow the course of Covid restrictions and tourism. As to the well off potential tourists they will come as well and spend their money. Bangla Rd in Patong for example has come back about 80%, and I had a great time there in April. Soi Buakao is thriving, as far as viable business models go, proving that there is a potential clientele which would likely return to Walking St. So, the difference between me and you is I am speaking from direct experience and my intuitive business sense, as well as reliable examples of business models. You are just guessing with wishful thinking and obviously little or no actual experience in that kind of business, no disrespect intended. Cheers. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Jonathan Swift

[charmonman]

12 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

You must not get much! Apart from other areas in Thailand, especially in Bangkok, many other countries have areas where girls can be obtained for a small or large fee. Even in some countries you wouldn't think of like Indonesia or Dubai, both Muslim countries. But certainly Mexico, Philippines, Germany, even Nigeria!

I have been many places, including some of of those you list and I have not seen anything that really compares to Pattaya in scope, except perhaps Olongapo/Subic in 1987. Mind you, I wasn't really looking too hard.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Millionaires are not going to jet half-way around the globe to visit a knocking shop on a seedy street.

Pattaya will remain as it did with the sex-tourist back-packer brigade.

The two - week variety make good customers. Middle East workers, and IT Nomads, whatever they are....back packers are usually penniless and too woke to enjoy Pattaya.

[scubascuba3]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Lonely and undersexed men can find the exact same experience / service a short distance away in LK Metro and surrounds, for a considerably cheaper price.

 

So what future does Walking Street have, unless it can compete on price point? 

Better quality girls, always has more than LK Metro, for example Pinup agogo had a 100+ girls in there every night, last time I checked LK pre covid was rubbish in comparison. One night I quickly walked around all agogos in LK, many had a few girls in only, I U turned out quickly back to Walking St

Edited May 27, 2022 by scubascuba3

[Walker88]

10 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Lonely and undersexed men

 

You mean 'married' ?

 

Yes, they are Pattaya's target market.

[Walker88]

Since the start of the Covid Era, Pattaya has undergone a host of fantasy reinventions, all spewing from the previous Administration.

 

I guess this article offers another interpretation of the old adage: Elections have consequences.

 

So Pattaya probably isn't going to remake itself as 'the hub for digital warriors'. Nor will it be 'the Asian Silicon Valley'. Forget about it being 'Southeast Asia's Hollywood/Bollywood', and gone is the 'Business/Convention/Resort' hub. I think there were other fantastical dreams, but these seem to have never gotten any farther than the back of an envelop.

 

As for 'Family Destination', it seems the young women who traditionally flock to Pattaya will still be leaving the kid back with Mom or Grandma in Isaan.

 

Plus ça change

 

 

[wombat]

16 hours ago, hotchilli said:

family friendly 

WS can't be anymore family friendly than it is now...

The family that plays together stays together.

[newnative]

      If you want to see the future of Walking Street you need only look at where big businesses are spending their money.  And, it's not Walking Street.  As I've said before, most of the new development is as far from Walking Street as they can get and still be in Pattaya.  Pattaya's mayor can talk about this and talk about that but it's all just talk.  The private sector spends the serious money and what have they been building recently in Pattaya?

     Probably the newest and biggest is Centre Point Space.  Anywhere near Walking Street?  Not on your life.  Same for the new highrise hotel going up right across the street from it.  Same for most of the other new hotels that have been built recently: Mytt, Brighton, Ozo, Amari new wing, D'Beach Hotel third highrise wing, Somerset, Grand Palazzo, and numerous smaller boutique hotels.  Plus Terminal 21, of course.

     The proposed massive Aquatique project is a comfortable distance from Walking Street, as well.  How about large new condo projects?  Most nowhere near, either.  Instead, you have the impressive Arom going up in Wong Amat, to join other new projects there such as The Palm, Baan Plai Haad, Zire, Northpoint, Riviera, and others.  If they don't choose Wong Amat, they are likely in Jomtien/Pratamnuk/Cosy with the many new projects in those areas.  With big business, it's anywhere but Walking Street.

     

      

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

      If you want to see the future of Walking Street you need only look at where big businesses are spending their money.  And, it's not Walking Street.  As I've said before, most of the new development is as far from Walking Street as they can get and still be in Pattaya.  Pattaya's mayor can talk about this and talk about that but it's all just talk.  The private sector spends the serious money and what have they been building recently in Pattaya?

     Probably the newest and biggest is Centre Point Space.  Anywhere near Walking Street?  Not on your life.  Same for the new highrise hotel going up right across the street from it.  Same for most of the other new hotels that have been built recently: Mytt, Brighton, Ozo, Amari new wing, D'Beach Hotel third highrise wing, Somerset, Grand Palazzo, and numerous smaller boutique hotels.  Plus Terminal 21, of course.

     The proposed massive Aquatique project is a comfortable distance from Walking Street, as well.  How about large new condo projects?  Most nowhere near, either.  Instead, you have the impressive Arom going up in Wong Amat, to join other new projects there such as The Palm, Baan Plai Haad, Zire, Northpoint, Riviera, and others.  If they don't choose Wong Amat, they are likely in Jomtien/Pratamnuk/Cosy with the many new projects in those areas.  With big business, it's anywhere but Walking Street.

     

      

There isn't exactly room available for new condos by walking st and pre covid new nightclubs were popping up and that Nasha has been rebuilt since the fire. An area has been demolished at Bali Hai opposite the parking place, see what pops up there. Once things open up properly change will accelerate

[Tony125]

19 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

You must not get much! Apart from other areas in Thailand, especially in Bangkok, many other countries have areas where girls can be obtained for a small or large fee. Even in some countries you wouldn't think of like Indonesia or Dubai, both Muslim countries. But certainly Mexico, Philippines, Germany, even Nigeria!

Don't leave out Isreal. They only made prostitution illegal in 2020

https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2020-07-22/israel-law-prohibiting-consumption-of-prostitution-services-goes-into-effect/

 The Ministry of Social Affairs and Social Services estimates there to be 14,000 prostitutes in the country.[4]

The main centre of prostitution in Israel is Tel Aviv. It has been estimated that 62% of the brothels and 48% of the massage parlors in the country are in Tel Aviv.[5] The traditional red-light district of the old bus station area was subjected to a number of raids and closures in 2017,[6] and the area is subject to gentrification.[6][7]

[Lord Lucan]

On 5/27/2022 at 8:24 AM, Andylongtime said:

It will always remain as the worlds largest brothel. 

Hope you are right, if it’s not broken don’t fix it.

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, Lord Lucan said:

Hope you are right, if it’s not broken don’t fix it.

Not heard from you for a while My Lord and completely agree with you

[Leaver]

16 hours ago, Hellfire said:

It did offer a unique experience for the newcomers. And I was one of them in 2015. Later, I found other and much cheaper venues. But my first memories are those of the Walking streets and I like those.

 

What can you say about a tourist attraction / hospitality area than can't retain customers? 

 

If the memories are so good, why aren't you still going to Walking Street? 

 

I accept it's the thing to do for the first timer to Pattaya, before they wise up, but can Walking Street venues survive on first timers?

[Leaver]

16 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I watched Walking Street (business) decline slowly over time since the early 2000s with the rest of Pattaya.

 

I agree Walking Street was on the decline, pre covid, but not all areas of Pattaya have declined.  An example is Tree Town, which basically didn't exist until recent times. 

 

Of course, all the extra bars in Tree Town cut the customer pie into thinner wedges, but some soi / areas pick up, while others die out.  I have suggested unreasonable rents from Thai landlords being one of the main causes of this. 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Better quality girls, always has more than LK Metro, for example Pinup agogo had a 100+ girls in there every night, last time I checked LK pre covid was rubbish in comparison. One night I quickly walked around all agogos in LK, many had a few girls in only, I U turned out quickly back to Walking St

 

Is it possible your post proves my point?

 

Plenty of girls in Walking Street gogo's, very few in LK Metro gogo's, could it be because most of the girls in gogo's on LK Metro had been bar fined, and should that be the case, how long before girls working in gogo's on Walking Street change employment to a gogo on LK Metro? 

[Adumbration]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:17 PM, hotchilli said:

That only draws in the lower rung, not the real money people.

Remind me why real money people would want to go to Pattaya.

[scubascuba3]

15 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Is it possible your post proves my point?

 

Plenty of girls in Walking Street gogo's, very few in LK Metro gogo's, could it be because most of the girls in gogo's on LK Metro had been bar fined, and should that be the case, how long before girls working in gogo's on Walking Street change employment to a gogo on LK Metro? 

No LK always had far fewer girls, the day I walked around it was early probably before 9pm. Next time you're in Pattaya do a comparison LK Vs Walking St, draft beer in WS is usually 80-110. LK is for people too lazy to go to WS

[The Hammer2021]

Hopefully it will return to its  glory days pre covid but there is a possibility that municipal  authorities  might get involved  and **** it up completely driving the heart  and soul out of it creating the 'empty shopping mall ' effect.

Over the decades  I've had great fun on WS still discovering new places to eat,  drink and party. Of course its getting stiff competition from LKM, SB TT etc but can they accomodate all the big dance clubs? Also WS is a hang out of arabs and indians but SB etc isnt. So I hope it returns to its former glory

[Leaver]

34 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

No LK always had far fewer girls, the day I walked around it was early probably before 9pm. Next time you're in Pattaya do a comparison LK Vs Walking St, draft beer in WS is usually 80-110. LK is for people too lazy to go to WS

 

I rarely go to Walking Street.  The only time I go is if I have a visiting friend who likes Walking Street, and I will go with him, and pre covid, some of them weren't bothered with Walking Street any more. 

 

If LK Metro if for people too lazy to go to Walking Stret, why is the area such a success?  Mongers can't all be lazy.

 

Walking Street is a tourist trap.  I lot of BS down there. 

[newnative]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

There isn't exactly room available for new condos by walking st and pre covid new nightclubs were popping up and that Nasha has been rebuilt since the fire. An area has been demolished at Bali Hai opposite the parking place, see what pops up there. Once things open up properly change will accelerate

      I think if big developers want to be in certain areas they will find a way.  Sansiri bought and tore down an old hotel to make way for its Edge condo.  I think there was something already there that was torn down for its Base condo project next door.   Some old project was torn down for Terminal 21.  Ditto for Centre Point Space.  Chang has bought a number of land parcels with old buildings on them for its proposed Aquatique.   The land with low-rise buildings across from Terminal 21 has been fenced off and likely will be demolished at some point to make way for something new--and probably high-rise. 

     Certainly, as you say, we'll see some nightclubs and other small projects popping up around Walking Street.   But, the major developers have seemed to want some distance from WS with the numerous large projects that they built in the past half dozen years--and that has continued with current and proposed projects.

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

With all due respect - Unless you have a crystal ball into the future you are simply speculating according to your own preferences and biases. In my 50 years in the bar and entertainment business as a musical entertainer and designer one of the most common fatal mistakes is when someone buys a place and tries to reinvent it in a way that ignores the preexisting patronage and history, and simply goes against the grain of traditional business models. ESPECIALLY if they expect to change something from a regular neighborhood bar or venue into an upscale attraction. Overall economic recovery from Covid will take time. Right now is not a good time for anyone to invest in anything, save new smaller venues taking advantage of lower rents in the abandoned former businesses. In the US I've seen as many as a half dozen "rehabilitated" venues in a given year fail in 1 to six months. It got to where I could predict it. It was a tough and unforgiving economy where I lived. The idea that you can take a place like Walking St., established over decades as a particular kind of attraction with its own identity, raze it, put millions into it, completely change its identity and overcome its past reputation, turn it into something it has never been, and then take an "if you build it they will come"  position HOPING the people with money will show up is extremely risky - as there is no track record, business model,  or template for the success such a thing in that type of situation (Thailand entertainement districts of that type), except those that ended up in  failures. How are you going to lure investors? If I was an investor I wouldn't touch it. Is the government going to be willing to gamble with huge amounts of money? It looks like a big fat no. The sure, practical, and sensible thing which doesn't gamble with existing livelihoods as well a huge amount of capital is to let it come back the way it was. There is ample evidence to think that will work. There are enough places still open there to indicate the small businesses would be happy to come back. It will follow the course of Covid restrictions and tourism. As to the well off potential tourists they will come as well and spend their money. Bangla Rd in Patong for example has come back about 80%, and I had a great time there in April. Soi Buakao is thriving, as far as viable business models go, proving that there is a potential clientele which would likely return to Walking St. So, the difference between me and you is I am speaking from direct experience and my intuitive business sense, as well as reliable examples of business models. You are just guessing with wishful thinking and obviously little or no actual experience in that kind of business, no disrespect intended. Cheers. 

 

Interesting post.

 

What's your position on the growing digital disruption of the traditional business model here?

 

As someone with 50 years in the industry, what are you doing to compete with the platform? 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Leaver

[Bernietravelling]

Did anybody expect anything else, really?
 

This sh.t-hole of a city, with its terrible infrastructure and without any city planning? How should that work?
 

Alone daring to mention: “the neighboring Bali Hai port facilities” … that rat infested, ugly area !

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, newnative said:

If you want to see the future of Walking Street you need only look at where big businesses are spending their money

Well The Waterfront defies that but look what happened to that! What North Pattaya is becoming is a concrete jungle... devoid of character. But hey, the pavements are better, at the moment.

Amari was there before already, a long time before.

I am still not convinced The Walking Street area is safe from development.....

 

[kinyara]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well The Waterfront defies that but look what happened to that! What North Pattaya is becoming is a concrete jungle... devoid of character. But hey, the pavements are better, at the moment.

Amari was there before already, a long time before.

I am still not convinced The Walking Street area is safe from development.....

 

I seriously hope it's not safe from development as it's an absolute dump and an eyesore these days.  A large part of that is due to City Hall doing nothing to maintain or tidy up the public areas, road and pavements, but the rest of it also looks tatty and unattractive. Well past its sell by date in its current state for me. 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

19 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I seriously hope it's not safe from development as it's an absolute dump and an eyesore these days.  A large part of that is due to City Hall doing nothing to maintain or tidy up the public areas, road and pavements, but the rest of it also looks tatty and unattractive. Well past its sell by date in its current state for me. 

 

 

 

You get no argument from me, most of South Pattaya is decrepit.  If North Pattaya is to be held up as some shining example though, well get real. It's a traffic nightmare, has it's share of holes in roads, and take a look at Drinking Street! I would like to see how it holds up over the years.

Edited May 29, 2022 by jacko45k

[BonMot]

My prediction is that walking street will remain as is for the next decade. I arrive at this conclusion because nothing has changed even during covid with all the blah blah over the past decades of threats. Some obviously very powerful people control that property. Finally, we are entering a global recession which will involve all nations which means working and middle class jobs at risk as well as nations FX.

 

The only thing in my mind that the area would be fashioned into is a seaside mall full of restys and tourist rubbish. While that might have appeal in the best of times who will develop this with what's on the horizon? I would think only Central group and it's still a huge gamble. A hotel group possible but I also sense these groups are looking more to sell out than expand up. It is entirely dependant on tourism. But the property needs to be purchased, something needs to be built and arguably tourists need to consistently show up. Not going to happen.

Edited May 29, 2022 by BonMot

[kinyara]

11 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You get no argument from me, most of South Pattaya is decrepit.  If North Pattaya is to be held up as some shining example though, well get real. It's a traffic nightmare, has it's share of holes in roads, and take a look at Drinking Street! I would like to see how it holds up over the years.

It's all relative I suppose, I quite enjoy a trip to T21 maybe once a week and then a walk down from the Dolphin roundabout to Central. I avoid South Pattaya completely nowadays. It's a pity the big investors and operators don't put more pressure on the local government to perform their side of the bargain for public areas.

[kinyara]

9 minutes ago, BonMot said:

My prediction is that walking street will remain as is for the next decade. I arrive at this conclusion because nothing has changed even during covid with all the blah blah over the past decades of threats. Some obviously very powerful people control that property. Finally, we are entering a global recession which will involve all nations which means working and middle class jobs at risk as well as nations FX.

 

The only thing in my mind that the area would be fashioned into is a seaside mall full of restys and tourist rubbish. While that might have appeal in the best of times who will develop this with what's on the horizon? I would think only Central group and it's still a huge gamble. A hotel group possible but I also sense these groups are looking more to sell out than expand up. It is entirely dependant on tourism. But the property needs to be purchased, something needs to be built and arguably tourists need to consistently show up. Not going to happen.

On the balance of probabilities I'd say you've outlined a fairly realistic scenario.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, kinyara said:

It's all relative I suppose, I quite enjoy a trip to T21 maybe once a week and then a walk down from the Dolphin roundabout to Central. I avoid South Pattaya completely nowadays. It's a pity the big investors and operators don't put more pressure on the local government to perform their side of the bargain for public areas.

Not a fan of shopping Malls, got them at home. Like the AC maybe.

A Walk down Soi Buakhao, The Poon, and LK Metro is a bit more interesting... when it isn't under half a foot of water. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Well The Waterfront defies that but look what happened to that! What North Pattaya is becoming is a concrete jungle... devoid of character. But hey, the pavements are better, at the moment.

Amari was there before already, a long time before.

I am still not convinced The Walking Street area is safe from development.....

 

        I mentioned Amari in my post because they built a new separate hotel on their grounds geared towards families--just one more addition to all the new, large construction projects in that area.  Big developers may target the WS area at some point but currently they seem to be focused on other areas of greater Pattaya.